GM top end cleaner

[sonofdennis]

Ran 1/2 a bottle of GM top end cleaner to de-carbon my cylinders. On my RT I hooked a "Y" configuration of vacuum lines and stuck the common end into the bottle of GM top end cleaner and each other end into the vaccum ports by the throttle bodies. Took about 30 seconds to suck down about half the bottle. Smoked and stunk to high heaven!!! I litterally had black soot dripping from the head pipe to Converter flange, looked and felt like black old oil.

Rode it to work this morning. After about 20 miles of riding all I can say is WOW! About the time it stopped smoking it settled into a smooth delivery of power. My exhaust system and heads must have had a enough carbon to definitely alter how it ran. Makes me want to run the de-carbonizer through it again.....but I won't. If a full bottle is enough for a V8 auto I'm sure 1/2 a bottle for my RT was plenty. If anyone else has 40k miles plus and suspect carbon loading I highly recommend considering the GM top end cleaner. I am impressed.

[T__]

Alan I have had good luck with that also (best I have found to date) .. Don’t overdo it as some will find it’s way into your engine oil by getting past the piston rings (probably wouldn’t hurt to change your engine oil now) .. It is also hard for the catalytic converter to burn off so don’t use any more than you need to..

 

Twisty

[AndyS]

Will this not have a seriously detrimental effect on the 'cat'?

Andy

[RFW]

Will this not have a seriously detrimental effect on the 'cat'?

Andy

...or at least the Lamda Sensor" Yup! Sure will.

 

The old fashioned way to remove carbon was to let it suck in water as the motor ran. The carbon would crack and much of it would be blown out.

[T__]

Will this not have a seriously detrimental effect on the 'cat'?

Andy

 

Andy, A lot of early emission era catalytic converters used a pelletised catalyst system (beads) Fortunately almost all modern cat converters now use a honeycomb type coated ceramic catalyst.. The BMW motorcycles appear to use a slight variation on the honeycomb type & use a honeycomb based on a coated metal honeycomb..

 

Obviously the early bead type converters were prone to overheating & damage from oil or other contaminants.. The honeycomb type can take a lot of abuse & not malfunction.. That is not to say you can’t ruin them but a little top engine cleaner used in moderation probably won’t have any lasting effect..

 

The GM top engine cleaner is tested to work with most late cat. converters & O2 sensors but again moderation is the rule..

 

Twisty

[RFW]

Pellets or beads, of honeycomb, are not the problem. Besides, honeycome types have been the only ones used since almost the very beginning of cats in the '70s

 

The problem is poisoning the platinum/palladium and other precious metals that are deposited on the ceramic, and "polluting" the Lamda sensor causing it to cease functioning. Whether this occurrs or not depends on the makeup of the GM "snake oil" that does the flushing.

[T__]

Pellets or beads, of honeycomb, are not the problem. Besides, honeycome types have been the only ones used since almost the very beginning of cats in the '70s

 

The problem is poisoning the platinum/palladium and other precious metals that are deposited on the ceramic, and "polluting" the Lamda sensor causing it to cease functioning. Whether this occurrs or not depends on the makeup of the GM "snake oil" that does the flushing.

 

 

RFW, the catalytic converter operates hot enough to burn most contaminants off the reactive surfaces.. It takes a lot to damage a free flowing cat converter.. On the O2 (lambda) sensor while it’s true they can be poisoned enough to become lazy, the later heated O2’s have a much better survival rate.. The biggest offenders to O2 long & prosperous life are: lead (leaded gasoline), silicone (mostly from silicone based gasket sealer) , sulfur (from high concentrations in motor oil that ultimately gets burnt) , & some types of ash content in motor oil..

As I mentioned above GM top engine cleaner is tested safe if used according to directions..

 

Twisty

[Yeeha! Stephen]

"GM top engine cleaner is tested safe..."

 

"Dealer Only" item? Or is there a Pep Boys alternative?

[T__]

"GM top engine cleaner is tested safe..."

 

"Dealer Only" item? Or is there a Pep Boys alternative?

 

Stephen,

That GM top engine cleaner is probably only available from a General Motors parts source like dealer network or service parts warehouse..

 

I use that TEC for a lot of tasks including cleaning my muzzle loader bores of powder residue & soaking cylinder heads prior to a valve job so I bought it by the case a while back (have had that stuff on my shelf for quite a few years now) so I can’t really tell you it can’t be bought from a non GM dealer.. As far as I can remember it runs some where’s around $10.00 a can.. (Part # 1050002) other similar GM products (1052626, 12345088).. The older Delco X66P was very similar also but don’t think it was tested on catalytic converter equipped vehicles..

 

If you want to find an alternative just look at the “Top Engine Cleaners” at your local auto parts store & find one containing the ingredients Naptha,, Butoxyethanol,, Methyl Alcohol,, Octadecendic Acid,, Pentanol (or as many of these ingredients as possible) -the container should also say catalytic converter safe or won’t harm emission controls..

 

You can also use Sea Foam but that doesn’t contain all the above ingredients.. If you use the Sea Foam you can pour it in the fuel tank & have it work as you ride the bike.. Sea Foam is slow working & will take many rides to come close to one application of the GM top engine cleaner but does seem to be somewhat effective..

 

The problem you will have with the GM TEC is getting it into your engine.. That TEC was designed to be poured into the carb or TBI unit from the top so will difficult to administer through your BMW side draft throttle bodies.. There is a vacuum fitting on the bottom of both of your throttle bodies & that can probably be used to allow the engine vacuum to suck the TEC right into the intake directly from the can.. Be real careful to not allow too much in at once as it could bend a connecting rod & will most certainly work it’s way into your crankcase past the piston rings..

 

I have had the best results by getting the TEC into a hot engine then shutting it off & allowing the engine to cool off & sit overnight (that allows it to soften the carbon deposits over time) then a good brisk ride the next day should allow the carbon to somewhat disappear..

 

Twisty

[sonofdennis]

My experience, it was off the shelf at the Chevy dealer. Claim was safe for Cat's and O2 sensors. GM parts guy said it's a new formulation making it safer on newer emmisions systems.I was told that most common method of appication is through vacuum ports and that under no circumstances should I add it directly into fuel tank.

Experience: It is day two since I treated the motor with the top end cleaner and it continues to settle a little better on throttle response and surging. Or maybe it's day two and I'm in a better mood so it's running better :-)

And yes oil change is going to happen. Bummer is I did't plan well so my 20-50 synthetic oil and BMW filter only have 350 miles on them

 

Alan

[SWB]

The problem you will have with the GM TEC is getting it into your engine.. That TEC was designed to be poured into the carb or TBI unit from the top so will difficult to administer through your BMW side draft throttle bodies.. There is a vacuum fitting on the bottom of both of your throttle bodies & that can probably be used to allow the engine vacuum to suck the TEC right into the intake directly from the can.. Be real careful to not allow too much in at once as it could bend a connecting rod & will most certainly work it’s way into your crankcase past the piston rings..

 

Well, I cleaned my R1100RT's TB's in the more conventional way. I removed them, disassembled everything that could get damaged (e.g. TPS, nylon/plastic injector), soaked 'em in carb cleaner, and they look new inside and out. Then I replaced all the "O" rings, and it should be good as new.

 

I couldn't believe how sooted and carboned up the TB's were. I've never seen any carb, TB, or other fuel system that dirty.

 

The engine itself looked pretty clean (maybe due to Techron and Italian tune up's), but I'm concerned about the exhaust system. I just replaced the O2 sensor, but it'd be nice to clean up the exhaust system too.