ERC today

[Flyer5]

Well I attended the experienced rider course today .I had a blast .I learned I have to work on better throttle control at lower speeds .And I have to break the 2 finger habit on the frt brake . I have been riding a long time and wasn't sure if it would be worth while attending but reading some of the posts on this forum convinced me to give it a try .I figured if I learned one thing to keep my skin off the pavement it would while . I have 1 more day next Sunday . Dave

[russell_bynum]

And I have to break the 2 finger habit on the frt brake .

 

Did your instructors give you a reason why this is a bad idea?

[Redbrick]

And I have to break the 2 finger habit on the frt brake .

 

Did your instructors give you a reason why this is a bad idea?

 

Two fingers is bad?

 

Phil........Redbrick

[Flyer5]

And I have to break the 2 finger habit on the frt brake .

 

Did your instructors give you a reason why this is a bad idea?

 

 

 

I did question it and the answer is if you really need to grab a lot of brake the lever may bottom on your other 2 fingers . My thought was I like to have my fingers on my brake most of the time ,cuts down on reaction time . But they are the instructors . I probably will still ride with 2 fingers ( I don't have the problem they described , If I bottom out on my other 2 fingers I would be over the bars but every bike is different )but for the course I need to get used to it .

[russell_bynum]

I did question it and the answer is if you really need to grab a lot of brake the lever may bottom on your other 2 fingers . My thought was I like to have my fingers on my brake most of the time ,cuts down on reaction time . But they are the instructors . I probably will still ride with 2 fingers ( I don't have the problem they described , If I bottom out on my other 2 fingers I would be over the bars but every bike is different )but for the course I need to get used to it .

 

On a 1975 bike, sure...you might bottom out the lever. On a modern bike: Not likely.

 

Meanwhile, you get better reaction time with two fingers already there on the lever.

 

You don't need more than 2 fingers to stop the bike, and with your other two fingers free to operate the throttle and hang on, you're just better off.

 

This is one area where I really disagree with MSF. I understand why they don't want newbies in the BRC covering the front brake (newbies are likely to panic and grab a handful at a bad moment...like when in a corner.) but for experienced riders, it just makes sense.

 

Whatever. Like you said...smile politely and do it their way for the class, then get back to doing it the right way afterwards.

 

Otherwise, they've got good curriculum with a good set of drills.

 

And as you mentioned...having professional instruction is very worthwhile.

 

The next step would be Streetmasters and the Superbike School

 

I haven't taken the streetmasters course yet, but the few people I know who have enjoyed it and found it to be very valuable.

 

The Superbike School comes very highly recommended by everyone I know who's taken it. They just focus on cornering (StreetMasters does other things too like braking, etc...and it is all geared towards street riders) and they break cornering down into individual finite skills. Although it is at a race track and the skills apply to racing/track days, they are also very much applicable to street riding as well.

 

I can also highly recommend dirt bike training and trials. Even if you don't intend to ride dirt or trials, the bike handling skills are really worthwhile to have for a street rider.

[Woodie]

+1 for Russell.

 

Lee Parks encourages the 2 fingers...since you don't need a whole hand on a modern bike. He did mention that ERC still wants whole hand, but he disagrees (for the experienced rider). He also taught throttling down and applying brake at the same time...which requires 2 fingers, and a fair amount of practice!

 

Throttle control is my weak spot too.

[copbike]

Hey Woodie!

 

Met you at the NE Tech day! Your bike looks good!

 

-Tim

[Flyer5]

I did question it and the answer is if you really need to grab a lot of brake the lever may bottom on your other 2 fingers . My thought was I like to have my fingers on my brake most of the time ,cuts down on reaction time . But they are the instructors . I probably will still ride with 2 fingers ( I don't have the problem they described , If I bottom out on my other 2 fingers I would be over the bars but every bike is different )but for the course I need to get used to it .

 

On a 1975 bike, sure...you might bottom out the lever. On a modern bike: Not likely.

 

Meanwhile, you get better reaction time with two fingers already there on the lever.

 

You don't need more than 2 fingers to stop the bike, and with your other two fingers free to operate the throttle and hang on, you're just better off.

 

This is one area where I really disagree with MSF. I understand why they don't want newbies in the BRC covering the front brake (newbies are likely to panic and grab a handful at a bad moment...like when in a corner.) but for experienced riders, it just makes sense.

 

Whatever. Like you said...smile politely and do it their way for the class, then get back to doing it the right way afterwards.

 

Otherwise, they've got good curriculum with a good set of drills.

 

And as you mentioned...having professional instruction is very worthwhile.

 

The next step would be Streetmasters and the Superbike School

 

I haven't taken the streetmasters course yet, but the few people I know who have enjoyed it and found it to be very valuable.

 

The Superbike School comes very highly recommended by everyone I know who's taken it. They just focus on cornering (StreetMasters does other things too like braking, etc...and it is all geared towards street riders) and they break cornering down into individual finite skills. Although it is at a race track and the skills apply to racing/track days, they are also very much applicable to street riding as well.

 

I can also highly recommend dirt bike training and trials. Even if you don't intend to ride dirt or trials, the bike handling skills are really worthwhile to have for a street rider.

 

Can you do a track day of sort on a RT . I would like to do it on the bike that I ride everyday not a racer . I wouldn't be looking to trash my bike but I would like to gain more skills for everyday . I rode and raced motocross for a number of years and have pretty good off road skills already . Unfortunately I also have a bad ankle from 3 surgery's so dirt racing is definatly out although I do miss it . My first race was in 1983 on an 82 RM250. The funny thing is the other day some kids were up at the airport by my house that I watch for the owner and fly from .They were doing donuts on the grass strip with ATVs . I was on my way to work when I heard them so I took the RT up and chased them down ,I think they must have soiled there pants when this 700lb bike caught up and caught 1 of them . I was polite and explained the hazards of 1 of them loosing there heads when a plane comes in and doesn't see them . And the worst hazard if I catch them up there again. They haven't been back since.

I have dabbled in trials bikes and it is a blast ,that is something that I would like to explore some more in the future . Dave

[Flyer5]

+1 for Russell.

 

Lee Parks encourages the 2 fingers...since you don't need a whole hand on a modern bike. He did mention that ERC still wants whole hand, but he disagrees (for the experienced rider). He also taught throttling down and applying brake at the same time...which requires 2 fingers, and a fair amount of practice!

 

 

 

I agree with that as well . I think part of my problem with the throttle control there was I was trying to change a habit that I had for years . Those 2 fingers on my frt brake have saved my bacon quite a few times . Dave

[LuckyLeif]

...On a 1975 bike, sure...you might bottom out the lever. On a modern bike: Not likely...

You're spot-on as usual. We do tend to see an "antique" bike on occasion with drums or early disc brakes, but generally the bikes are new to 5 yrs old. When I teach an ERC I do not "correct" 2-finger braking unless the student is having difficulty stopping the machine within the standard distance -- I haven't ridden all bikes, and some may need the extra leverage. What I do try to correct is people who cover their front brake while doing slow corners such as the u-turn "box". It's all too easy for someone covering the lever to mistakenly apply a dab of front brake when their wheel is cocked causing a slow tip-over or an ungainly recovery at best. It may have happened this weekend at an ERC where one of our top students tipped over in a u-turn when the bike all of a sudden slowed while the wheel was cocked. Could have been a fuel injection "burp" or drive train lash but since the student was observed covering the front brake earlier, I suspect the brake had some involvement. I'm not advocating that covering the brake while at street speed is a bad thing (in fact I do it myself when in traffic or on a sporting road), I think it should be used judiciously if at all while at parking lot speeds particularly if turning.

Scott

[timmr]

I took the ERC on the GS. The instructors expected me to stop shorter, turn tighter, ride slower, etc, than the other riders. I asked him why the different rules for me. He stated that riding the BMW was cheating, and expected better results from me.

[russell_bynum]

Can you do a track day of sort on a RT . I would like to do it on the bike that I ride everyday not a racer . I wouldn't be looking to trash my bike but I would like to gain more skills for everyday .

 

I would not do a "Track day" on an RT. But a school would be fine. I did Level 1 of the Superbike School on my R1100RT and it did just fine. StreetMasters even requires that you bring a street-legal motorcycle (i.e. no "track bikes" so you'd be just fine on your RT. At the Superbike School, I've seen everything from 125cc GP race bikes to Full-dress Harley touring bikes. Whatever you've got would be fine.

[motorman587]

And I have to break the 2 finger habit on the frt brake .

 

Did your instructors give you a reason why this is a bad idea?

 

Yup, if you need a handful of braking the lever would go to the handgrip and your fingers would be in the way, and then you let go. How do use a screwdriver, with two fingers or just two???????

[Redbrick]

+1 for Russell.

 

Lee Parks encourages the 2 fingers...since you don't need a whole hand on a modern bike. He did mention that ERC still wants whole hand, but he disagrees (for the experienced rider). He also taught throttling down and applying brake at the same time...which requires 2 fingers, and a fair amount of practice!

 

 

Ditto for Reg Pridmore....Two fingers covering the brake and rolling the hand forward to simultaneously put on brake and throttle down.....

Another option for training would be Reg's CLASS school...Kathy and I took a two day school a while back and found it helpful...We were on RT's too; her 1150 and my original K75 Redbrick......

http://www.classrides.com/

 

 

 

Phil..........Redbrick

[motorman587]

Respectifully disagree, if I spelled that correct.