Help - what would you do !

[Mikes07gt]

I have a 2007 K12GT with 2300mi and a noise (see K Bike wrenching for more) from the final drive area that I have taken to a local dealer on tuesday am. There fix was to change the fluid in the final drive and give it back to me yesterday. It took 136 mi before the noise came back but it is back last nite. I took the bike back to them this morning and they waited all day and then told me that BMW would not let them tear it down because the fluid was clean no particals and there was no apperent problem except for the noise. There advice was to run it till it comes apart and then they will know for sure what it is. Now they have known all week that I am planning on leaving for Torrey this weekend and they know if it comes apart that it would be on this trip. Here is the 20000dollar quiz... would you chance the final drive problem on a 3000 mile trip or would you give it up. option 3 would be to trade it in on another bike but I just installed Zumo,Valentine,Autocom,2way radios last week. let alone the easy stuff seat bar backs peg lowering kit and other misc stuff. Would You chance it or not.

 

Mike

[Mikes07gt]

sorry about typos and spelling I am pi$$ed and pounding the key's

[Whip]

I don't know what to tell ya.....The first time that kinda stuff happen to me I owned a new RT....I bought a FJR the next week.

 

The next time it happen to me I owned a new GSA....I bought a KTM 950.....

 

I didn't have the same problem you did....I just got the same run around from the dealers/BMW corp.

 

I really don't know what to tell ya. I'm not one of those people that can raise a lot of hell with a service guy because someone else told him/her to tell ya to ride it until it breaks.

 

It's not my way....I just don't do business like that because I don't want to.

 

Whip

[creekstone]

Mike,

That just plain sucks! If it were me, I'd get on the thing and ride to Torrey. If it goes, it goes. You bought that bike for trips just like Torrey. The bike is under warranty, so that's covered. The worse thing that could happen is a breakdown that ruins your trip. If you don't go, your trip is ruined anyway. Go for it!

That said, as soon as I got home, I'd take it back to the dealer and let them check the fluid again for 'bits'. And, I would get very vocal with BMWNA.

[jmseattle]

I had a not dissimilar situation on my '04 GT this week. Had oil weeping from final drive that had accelerated in recent weeks. Dealer's initial recommendation was to put "more miles" on it until it really became significant. I said, no, I'm leaving on a long trip in a couple of weeks and I want it resolved now, here, so that I'm not dealing with it in the middle of the Mojave. And, btw, my warranty runs out in 6-weeks so I would like it addressed now, in-warranty. They did the right thing -- took it in and did the work today, under warranty. They told me it turned out to be a seal in the final drive that needed to be replaced. Hindsight is always 20/20, but not sure I understand what would have been gained by putting "more miles" on it before correcting as it clearly was a problem. However, I do plan on putting some miles on locally in the next week or so to make sure that is all there was to it as there was also some seepage up near the sump that they previously told me to "watch" but then today said was "normal".

 

Insisting that they resolve rather than waiting until it gets dramatically worse seems the far better course to me generally, even if you have to get rather assertive about it. However, you apparently are against the wall on time. If the noise is significant in your view, and qualitatively it is in your opinion a signal of a developing or even imminent problem, I would be hesitant to tackle a long ride through areas where your access to major mechanical assistance will be limited.

[Pennys Dad]

Last year I had issues with splines on an 04 RT. The dealer said it would take 8 weeks to get the bike repaired. I was fairly pissed off because of thier slow repair time and lack of concern at my "problem" (I commute daily on the RT because driving cost me 4 hours each day) fyi: When I owned my Harley I had no issues like I do the BMW dealers. A friend asked me why I was taking such crap from a BMW dealer. I called the dealer and got the corporate office number and got a customer service rep and after stressing my point intensely I got my monthly payment covered for each month the bike was down. Dont give up and take the complaint up the ladder, remember you own an expensive motorcycle from a company that stresses customer service, make them earn thier keep.

[Mikes07gt]

Thanks guy's I will stew over it tonite and make up my mind in the morning. Hope to see you in Torrey...

[Jim VonBaden]

Honestly, I would just ride it. I am willing to bet, though it is your @$$, that it will be fine.

 

Jim

 

PS Or you could be like Whip and just sell it and never learn how great, or bad, the bike could turn out to be.

[Bud]

That stinks Mike. Maybe you could have a conversation with them about covering your extra costs if you are stranded 1000 miles from home?

 

I'm not the right person to ask because I would just go.

[glockster]

It's under warranty, I'd ride it.

[10ovr]

I drove from AZ,up the calif coast,to OR.Rear end started making noise,,Found a dealer,,Checked the rear end,,NO OIL,dealer forgot to put it in.We put oil in it,Noise was still there,but not as bad,,Rode another 4k miles,,Dealer then put in a new final drive,,when I got home,,I think you well be fine,,Ride It,,Or you could put metal to final drive,,O did I say that????

[smiller]

There advice was to run it till it comes apart and then they will know for sure what it is.

You'll probably be OK but man... with helpful dealers like that who need enemies...

[Yeeha! Stephen]

I don't know what to tell ya.....The first time that kinda stuff happen to me I owned a new RT....I bought a FJR the next week.

 

The next time it happen to me I owned a new GSA....I bought a KTM 950.....

 

I didn't have the same problem you did....I just got the same run around from the dealers/BMW corp.

 

 

Whip

 

 

New Triumph Tiger is looking better and better all the time...

[onedae]

I would not cancel my trip. I'd ride it and deal with it if and when something goes wrong. Chances are good that you will have no problem. I would however buy a good roadside assistance plan that covers the cost of towing to a BMW dealer (check out KOA). You have a track record of complaining on this issue and BMW's response. If you have a problem you've got a strong basis for going after BMW later. If you cancel your trip, you lose no matter what.

And definitely don't trade and take the financial hit - it's not your problem. Lots of known issues with these new K bikes - BMW should be embarassed big time.

By the way, if you financed the bike thru BMW it'll be easier to make it their problem down the road if the bike is unreliable.

[russell_bynum]

There advice was to run it till it comes apart and then they will know for sure what it is.

You'll probably be OK but man... with helpful dealers like that who need enemies...

 

If I'm not mistaken, the advice wasn't from the dealer, it was from BMWNA. Dealerships can't decide what to cover under warranty...that's a corporate thing. If BMW tells the dealer they're not going to cover it, then the dealer either does the work on their own dime (which doesn't seem like a good way to run a business) or they pass that bad news on to the customer.

 

FWIW, I had a few issues where my dealer "went to bat for me" with BMW and got things covered. Having a good relationship with the service department can make a big difference since they are the ones who have to go back and argue with BMW about stuff like this.

[BrianT]

Like previously said if you cancel your trip it's still ruined. I'd ride it but just pay extra attention to that final drive. Might be a good thing to know where the dealers are along your route so that if it does fail you know where to go. I'd also remind your dealer that if the bike fails mid trip you'll be happy to pass on the extra costs to BMW since they've decided the bike is 100%, such as hotel rooms if it's an extended repair and or rental car. If you make it to Sunday without it failing I'd then make sure to ride the piss out of it on the way home to be sure it's not going to fail.

[Firefight911]

There advice was to run it till it comes apart and then they will know for sure what it is.

You'll probably be OK but man... with helpful dealers like that who need enemies...

 

If I'm not mistaken, the advice wasn't from the dealer, it was from BMWNA. Dealerships can't decide what to cover under warranty...that's a corporate thing. If BMW tells the dealer they're not going to cover it, then the dealer either does the work on their own dime (which doesn't seem like a good way to run a business) or they pass that bad news on to the customer.

 

FWIW, I had a few issues where my dealer "went to bat for me" with BMW and got things covered. Having a good relationship with the service department can make a big difference since they are the ones who have to go back and argue with BMW about stuff like this.

 

Amen to that!!! Relationship is so huge here. I had a couple problems very early on with my dealer. We sat down and discussed my concerns and they expressed theirs. In the end, I have developed not only a dealership that I will exclusively deal with but some great friends along the way.

 

Document all your interactions, just in case. Be fair, be calm, and be understanding. It will go so very far!!!

 

Perhaps a letter to the GM of your dealership expressing your concerns and asking for the opportunity to discuss it with the involved parties all together.

 

I know this does NOTHING for you as you are about to leave but it will get you some serious mileage down the road.

 

Oh, and go ride to Torrey!! Pay attention to the whole bike and ride baby ride!!!

[Dennis Andress]

Ride it. You've had it in to the dealer twice for the same problem now, once more and you can make them eat it under the lemon law.

[smiller]

Except that it sounds like the dealer didn't go to bat for him here, or if so the effort was not well received by BMWNA. Since we don't know which is the case I probably should have more correctly said that with support like that, who needs enemies, but regardless of where the blame lies I would say that that someone is providing less than stellar support to their customer. I realize that a line must be drawn somewhere with respect to customer complaints, but geez... 'run it till it comes apart and then they will know for sure what it is'..? I don't mean to be a glass half-empty kind of guy but that response just doesn't cut it.

[Whip]

Is there any chance the final drive could fail and do something to injure the rider????

 

I really don 't know.

[russell_bynum]

Is there any chance the final drive could fail and do something to injure the rider????

 

I really don 't know.

 

Yes.

 

When mine failed, it dumped oil on the right side of the rear tire. Fortunately, the seal let go literally as I was pulling into the dealership lot and I was only making left turns. If I had made a right turn, I probably would have crashed.

[Amac]

You're running into the teeth of a known design problem with the new generation K bikes. Trade it for a boxer or non-BMW.

[russell_bynum]

You're running into the teeth of a known design problem with the new generation K bikes. Trade it for a boxer or non-BMW.

 

Just a thought...isn't it the same final drive design on both bikes? The K puts out more power, which would probably kill the thing faster, but I would guess that if it's a problem with the K, it's a problem with the R-bikes too...it'll just take more miles before we start seeing the problem.

[Whip]

Is there any chance the final drive could fail and do something to injure the rider????

 

I really don 't know.

 

Yes.

 

When mine failed, it dumped oil on the right side of the rear tire. Fortunately, the seal let go literally as I was pulling into the dealership lot and I was only making left turns. If I had made a right turn, I probably would have crashed.

 

 

So the dealer is telling you to go out and ride it until you or the final drive crash??????????

 

I'm just guessing, but I don't think it will fail while your at a stop sign??????

 

Am I missing something?????????????

 

 

Whip

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Is there any chance the final drive could fail and do something to injure the rider????

 

I really don 't know.

 

Yes.

 

When mine failed, it dumped oil on the right side of the rear tire. Fortunately, the seal let go literally as I was pulling into the dealership lot and I was only making left turns. If I had made a right turn, I probably would have crashed.

 

Equally bad, I've heard of a few cases where the crown bearing let go and allowed the wheel to flop horribly, i.e. several inches of lateral play at the tread surface. That and/or the lubing of the tread surface by lost gear oil can send you on an off-road excursion in a hurry.

[RichEdwards]

My new GT has about 2600 miles on it and the rear has no such noise, so it is not normal. I would take the trip. I would also take the advice of those here. Remain calm. Document everything and get the refusal to replace the rear in writing. Speak with respect and understanding to the owner. Inform him that your lawyer will be contacting him and BMW if there is a rear end failure on your trip. Since you brought it to the attention of the dealer and BMW, you will hold them responsible for any associated expense (time missed at work, hotel, towing, travel, and especially, injury.)

[Mikes07gt]

Thanks everyone for the input! After an evening of reading the posts and thinking about it I am going to “Ride It Like I Stole It” . I am going to take some advice from the posts and get more documentation about the problem in writing from the dealer. Also I am going to get a better roadside assistance program. If anybody has any suggestions about the best roadside program please fire away. I do have the BMW plan still in effect but I have not heard a lot of good things about their assistance. I am worried about the possibility of failure causing some sort incident so that will be on my mind the whole trip. I really appreciate everyone chiming in to help me think this through. I have a list of all the possible dealers in route and I am going to take a regular inspection of the final drive area at each stop, put it up on center stand and check for leaks and wheel wobble.

 

Again Thanks to everyone for taking the time to reply !!!!!!!!

 

Why am I pushing it? Well back in January somebody I never met asked to Kick it up !

 

Since then I have seen a great bunch of people come together and stand up for him and his family and I thought to my self these are people worth knowing and having as friends. I am not a very good one for bantering on the DB but I have read this board every day since I joined and I am amazed at the amount of community and caring that comes out of this cyber world.

 

Hope to meet all of you in Torrey.

 

Mike

[onedae]

Good decision. KOA has an RV plan that includes motorcycles and has unlimited towing coverage to the nearest "qualified" repair shop - that means to a BMW dealer. That alone can save you big $ if you break down in someplace like Torrey away from a big city.

[russell_bynum]

Good decision. KOA has an RV plan that includes motorcycles and has unlimited towing coverage to the nearest "qualified" repair shop - that means to a BMW dealer. That alone can save you big $ if you break down in someplace like Torrey away from a big city.

 

Another vote for the KOA plan.

[Kris]

Also I am going to get a better roadside assistance program. If anybody has any suggestions about the best roadside program please fire away. I do have the BMW plan still in effect but I have not heard a lot of good things about their assistance.

 

I think the advice you've gotten is good. I'd ride it and see what happens... the BMW roadside is the same as all the others - when it comes to service. The operator of BMW's plan (operated by Cross Country) is finding the same tow companies that AAA, Cross Country, and the others use... it comes down to whether the tow trucks are busy or not.

 

IF you do break down, here's my qualified suggestions

 

#1 Phone Call - Call your dealer and calmly let him know you've accomplished your mission and broken the bike (per their request). Tell them where you are and that they need to ensure BMW Roadside will accommodate your needs to get to a dealer.... and hint that they should really take care of calling themselves.

 

#2 Phone Call - to BMW Roadside. Make sure you have their number handy and the last 7 of your Vin# for them. Tell them honestly that you've had a fatal failure and it needs to see a dealer. They can make it happen... be firm and nice, and it will happen without much effort. Scream loud because you have a flat tire... and you'll wait a long time.

 

#3 Phone call - Call BMW Customer Svc. Make sure to have their number handy in case you're stuck faaaar from a dealer and let them know what the dealer recommended you do. Also be firm that now you need their help to get your bike to where it can be repaired without cost to you.

 

Save any receipts from the point of breakdown until you're back on the road. BMW Roadside has "Trip Interruption" reimbursement - which is up to $100/day for 3 days while you're trip has been interrupted due to any breakdown. This is to help with lodging and food while you're waiting for the bike to be repaired. Save all your receipts just in case!

 

-- someone mentioned lemon law... Each state is different, so I have no knowledge of Oregon... but FYI for all you Caleeefornia residents. Read the words very carefully... there is no lemon law for motorcycles. Motorcycles are exempt from the Song-Beverly Consumer Warranty Act. With that said, it really hits home that if you develop a relationship with your local/preferred shop that it can go a very long way in those tough situations. They can persuade BMW to help you with that problem which never finds a permanent repair... but it won't help you to go screaming Lemon Law.

 

Hope this helps... and I hope you have an awesome ride to/from Torrey - you won't regret the trip one little bit.

[Mikes07gt]

Thanks guy's I just purchased the KOA plan and it is in effect. Also Kris thanks for the info I will make sure I have those numbers with me.

[russell_bynum]

Equally bad, I've heard of a few cases where the crown bearing let go and allowed the wheel to flop horribly, i.e. several inches of lateral play at the tread surface. That and/or the lubing of the tread surface by lost gear oil can send you on an off-road excursion in a hurry.

 

That's what happened to mine. I kept eating rear ABS sensors. They kept replacing them (under warranty). One went again and I took the bike back for them to check it out (again) and the seal failed as I pulled into their lot.

 

Basically...there was enough play in there that the indexed ABS ring was eating the sensor. Eventually, it got so bad that it destroyed the seal. I never felt any thing different in the handling of the bike.

 

The first time it failed, (that was the second time), I did feel something not quite right in a few turns. That prompted me to put the bike on the centerstand and check play. There was a fair amount of play, so I had the bike towed and the FD was replaced. I didn't get any ABS faults on the first failure like I did with the second one.