Headlight modulator

[David]

My opinion is that they are so ineffective at helping the unaware see you (vs. the aware, that are looking in the right place and scanning and are made more aware of your position by the flashing) that I think it's a bad trade for the annoyance factor.

Not trying to nit-pick a fight with you here David, rather trying to understand...

 

The term "not a good trade off" to me implies the negatives out weigh the positives. True representation of your position?

 

Yes, that's an accurate representation.

 

I didn't touch a motorcycle in the US until I was 40 years old, on my birthday. I was off them entirely for 22 years, then, and in that time I saw quite a few modulators. They just pissed me off, especially when not turned off in dense traffic right behind me.

 

I never retaliated, and I've never heard of someone else retaliating--it's just a personal preference. I don't mind annoying people, obviously, or I wouldn't hang around this web site. But there must be something in it for me, and I don't see any significant value in having one. In fact, I'd much rather sneak around than be noticed. I believe that I am 100% responsible for my own safety, and I never assume someone sees me.

 

As to why they annoy me? I really don't know. Maybe a mix of selfishness, glibness, whatever. To me it's worse than someone who runs around with their high beams on. But a lot of things annoy me with no rational basis, so don't read into it too much!

[russell_bynum]

I've seen references to that study, and some excerpts, but not the whole enchilada. One of the important points, which you note, was the conclusion that the triangle of lights improved the ability of observers to judge the distance (and perhaps the closing speed) of trains. It does seem that one of the problems motorists have with motorcyles is judging their distance and speed. This is, I think, exacerbated by the fact that motorcycles can accelerate much faster than cars. So, motorists are also saddled with a subconscious preconception of how quickly motorcyclists can change speed that seriously underestimates how quick they are.

 

Yes, indeed. My instinct tells me (no other corroboration) that in many cases motorists do see motorcycles but misjudge their distance because of the size. You can see this phenomenon when you observe a 747 flying. It seems to be flying so slowly, when in fact it's just a long ways off but appears closer because of its size. So that's the reverse issue, but it illustrates the point.

 

I agree with that. I know I personally have problems with that when I see bikes on the road.

[David]

Don't get all emotional about this. We disagree, and that's fine.

Not emotional at all, just very surprised as your rationale is expanded upon. Tell you what, if you'll do your own analysis over say, a six month period actually riding a bike with one installed and operating, I'll buy you the modulator of your choice. They are easy to install and easy to remove. Then you can sell it on the DB here, and make a profit, if you don't see any value.

 

Kisan is a good one. Hook it up to the high beam. The "high" then modulates during the day and the photo sensor turns it off at night automatically. That way you can have it on, or off, as you see fit for your test.

 

Fine. Except most of my riding is on the track and the headlight is taped.

 

Besides, what do you care? The more people that use them, the less effective they'll be, wherever they start on that effectiveness curve. If you have a few minutes, do a little reading on the effectiveness of DRL now on vehicles. They've regressed to the mean and they are essentially worthless. But still annoying!

 

And I see that you are taking the bumper stick approach now via your signature. That's annoying too.

[Ken H.]

Here's a question: If you admit that they might annoy some people, but that's OK in your mind because of the perceived benefits, how is that different than someone running a loud pipe on their bike and saying "I know it might piss some people off, but I like it and I don't think it's such a big deal."?

Well I don't want to turn this into a loud pipes thread, because it's not, but there are two key differences:

 

1) Modulators are legal, loud pipes are not.

 

2) The legislators of the world who are rising up against motorcyclist and passing 'No Motorcycles Here' ordinances are doing so because of the loud pipe issue, not because of headlight modulators.

 

Those two main factors move pipes far and away ahead of modulators as an annoyance to the public issue we should be addressing.

[russell_bynum]

Those two main factors move pipes far and away ahead of modulators as an annoyance to the public issue we should be addressing.

 

I agree with that statement, but that's not what I asked. How are the two different other than the fact that more people have annoying loud pipes than annoying modulators?

[Mike]

Well, it looks to me like we've finally reached complete agreement on this issue. In separate threads, we're moving toward near unanimous consensus on the value of speed enforcement.

 

Now, let's move on to helmet laws.

[CraCol]

Personnely, I think modulators shouldn't be used.. IMHO, Flashing lights should be used emergency vehicles... It annoys me to see a bike coming with the headlight flashing like a circus clowns tricycle to gain attention...

 

The other point is, as riders we can't assume someone is going to watch out for us, flashing lights or not..

 

Just my $.02, adjusted for inflation..

 

TinMan.

[DiggerJim]

If you have a few minutes, do a little reading on the effectiveness of DRL now on vehicles. They've regressed to the mean and they are essentially worthless.

Slight hijack here, but has anyone (else) considered that perhaps the laws requiring DRLs on new vehicles were created at the behest of bulb suppliers who stand to sell more bulbs than they did when the lights were off most of the time?

Jim

[alanz]

I wonder how many of the widely available modulators meet also those requirements.

Mikko

 

I would suspect that virtually all of the manufacturers are in compliance. There were some that offered non-compliant features in the past, but those products seem to have been withdrawn from the market.

[Steve_Witmer]

Again, if there's an objective study, I want to see it.

 

My recollection is that the Hurt Report (and it's ancient history now) identified headlight modulators as one of the devices that was likely to prevent motorcycle collisions by making motorcycles more visible -- and that's probably the only reason why modulators are included as authorized equiopment in the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (thus pre-empting state laws that might otherwise have prohibited them).

 

Unfortunately, it's not likely that anybody is tracking presence or absence of modulators on motorcycles when compiling statistics right now, since none of the major manufacturers have seen fiot to increase the prices on their motorcycles by including these wonderful little devices.

 

It does make you look like an oncoming freight train, but you still have to ride like the bozos in cars haven't seen you.

[ghaverkamp]

Those two main factors move pipes far and away ahead of modulators as an annoyance to the public issue we should be addressing.

 

I agree with that statement, but that's not what I asked. How are the two different other than the fact that more people have annoying loud pipes than annoying modulators?

 

Disclaimer: I find modulators very annoying.

 

That said, a huge difference is invasiveness. If you're rumbling down the street with your straight pipes, I can try to cover my ears to get away from the sound, but it may do no good. On the other hand, if I'm annoyed by your GD headlight modulator, all I have to do is not look. The annoyance of the headlight modulator only persists as long as I insist on looking, whereas the rattling of the windows in my apartment from the morons down the street with the straight pipes (or hyped up bass in their car stereos) continues whether I show an interest or not.

[E30TECH]

If you have a few minutes, do a little reading on the effectiveness of DRL now on vehicles. They've regressed to the mean and they are essentially worthless.

Slight hijack here, but has anyone (else) considered that perhaps the laws requiring DRLs on new vehicles were created at the behest of bulb suppliers who stand to sell more bulbs than they did when the lights were off most of the time?

Jim

 

[leikam]

(I can't believe I almost missed another headlight modulator thread! -- look here for more fascinating debate )

 

Modelling motorcycle conspicuity on what works for trains seems to miss a few key points. In response to a hazard, trains can neither change direction nor stop effectively. The train's only way to avoid the accident is to broadcast its presence (light and sound), but if they do collide, the car is going to suffer most. Train lights say "get out of the way now." Motorcycle lights say "please don't run me down."

 

If the goal is to give drivers a better chance at judging distance, speed and direction, a triangular light pattern probably makes sense. But I don't see how blinding the driver or obscuring other cues does. Being noticed can't be an end in itself. The point of me being seen is so that other people have the best chance at making a decision that is good for me. Accident rates are what matter, not whether you feel more secure or more people move over or "notice" you.

 

And lastly, and maybe it's a personal failing, but I just can't seem to get my head around the idea of adding things to your bike that you believe make you more visible while retaining the mental outlook of being less visible. If I'm wearing a helmet, I feel more protected. If my bike has ABS, I'm more confident in (straight-line) low-traction conditions.

[Aluminum_Butt]

Again, if there's an objective study, I want to see it.

 

My recollection is that the Hurt Report (and it's ancient history now) identified headlight modulators as one of the devices that was likely to prevent motorcycle collisions by making motorcycles more visible...

 

HERE is a nice summary of the conspicuity findings of the Hurt report.

 

It really doesn't do much to bolster either side of the modulator argument. However, I was happy to find out that it's OK I'm a high-beam-using-asshat.

 

• Using the high beam of a motorcycle’s headlight during the day also helps to prevent violations of the motorcyclist’s right-of-way (Hurt, 1981).

[David]

Again, if there's an objective study, I want to see it.

 

My recollection is that the Hurt Report (and it's ancient history now) identified headlight modulators as one of the devices that was likely to prevent motorcycle collisions by making motorcycles more visible...

 

HERE is a nice summary of the conspicuity findings of the Hurt report.

 

It really doesn't do much to bolster either side of the modulator argument. However, I was happy to find out that it's OK I'm a high-beam-using-asshat.

 

• Using the high beam of a motorcycle’s headlight during the day also helps to prevent violations of the motorcyclist’s right-of-way (Hurt, 1981).

 

Here's the thing with really old studies like that: they're really old. High beams back then were wussier than low beams today, so it doesn't compute.

 

Which makes you even more of an asshat than if you'd done it back then. But no worries, I'm an asshat without the aid of an annoying headlight.

[Aluminum_Butt]

High beams back then were wussier than low beams today, so it doesn't compute.

 

Got an objective study to back up that statement? Not just your anecdotal observations.

[David]

High beams back then were wussier than low beams today, so it doesn't compute.

 

Got an objective study to back up that statement? Not just your anecdotal observations.

 

If you want to bet $100 on the outcome, smarty pants, I'll be glad to waste my time looking it up.

[Mike]

PROCLAMATION

 

BY THE POWER VESTED IN ME. . .

 

as an administrator of BMWSportTouring.com, a website dedicated to the proposition that all BMW motorcycle owners (as well as those who own other marques, but participate in The Discourse) are possessed of a stubborn adherence to their divergent beliefs, I do hereby proclaim the following:

 

-The Debate Over Modulators shall henceforth be deemed The Eternal and Endless Debate;

 

-In partipating in The Eternal and Endless Debate, no proponent of a position for or against modulators may stray from his or her originally stated position on The Topic;

 

-In stating his or her position on The Topic, the proponents of the antagonistic positions must refuse to budge and shall employ subtle insults of those who propound the opposing position;

 

-Should the questions posed by the opposing parties ever be answered by unassailable scientific studies, the parties shall nonetheless continue to debate The Topic ad nauseum;

 

-In No Event shall the members of BMWSportTouring.com ever allow the Eternal and Endless Debate to cease.

 

So it is and so it shall be, until and after there is no more Internet. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust, argumentum ad infinitem.

 

[alanz]

Mike,

 

It's about time you stepped up and reminded everyone to abide by the ATTATT by-laws.

 

All The Trolls, All The Time. <s>

 

Just remember the ATTATT credo: "I must have the last word, again"

[tobyzusa]

Although I'll admit that sometimes I get confused and forget if we're talking about modulators or deer whistles.

 

Thought we were discuss'n tie-ars and awwwwL

[Ken H.]

How are the two different other than the fact that more people have annoying loud pipes than annoying modulators?

1) Modulators are legal, loud pipes are not.

[Ken H.]

PROCLAMATION

 

BY THE POWER VESTED IN ME. . .

 

as an administrator of BMWSportTouring.com, a website dedicated to the proposition that all BMW motorcycle owners (as well as those who own other marques, but participate in The Discourse) are possessed of a stubborn adherence to their divergent beliefs, I do hereby proclaim the following:

 

-The Debate Over Modulators shall henceforth be deemed The Eternal and Endless Debate;

 

-In partipating in The Eternal and Endless Debate, no proponent of a position for or against modulators may stray from his or her originally stated position on The Topic;

 

-In stating his or her position on The Topic, the proponents of the antagonistic positions must refuse to budge and shall employ subtle insults of those who propound the opposing position;

 

-Should the questions posed by the opposing parties ever be answered by unassailable scientific studies, the parties shall nonetheless continue to debate The Topic ad nauseum;

 

-In No Event shall the members of BMWSportTouring.com ever allow the Eternal and Endless Debate to cease.

 

So it is and so it shall be, until and after there is no more Internet. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust, argumentum ad infinitem.

 

Yeah, so what else is(n't) new?

[Ken H.]

Well this is indeed a bit of a hijack, but you started it -

The more people that use them, the less effective they'll be, wherever they start on that effectiveness curve. If you have a few minutes, do a little reading on the effectiveness of DRL now on vehicles. They've regressed to the mean and they are essentially worthless.

You and others have mentioned this about DRL before but I think you miss a key point about them. While HM's may indeed grow less effective as most bikes have them (should we ever reach that point) DRL will not because they serve a different purpose. DRL are not intended to assist someone in seeing a particular car amounts a group of other cars. For that they are indeed useless when everyone has them. Rather they are to assist someone in seeing a particular car against a background of other stuff. I.e. against areas darker than the headlights. Buildings, trees, roads, signs, etc. Which is most everywhere at any distance. So the DRL will always help a driver observe a single car approaching. Like at an intersection. If there is a 'pack' of cars is approaching, the effect is only enhanced. The ability to pick out on particular car in the pack of cars with DRL is irrelevant. Their effectiveness of the intended purpose is not diminished by commonness.

[russell_bynum]

How are the two different other than the fact that more people have annoying loud pipes than annoying modulators?

1) Modulators are legal, loud pipes are not.

 

OK, but that's a technicality. i.e. Enough people were annoyed by loud pipes (because enough people got loud pipes) that they pressured their elected officials to pass laws against them.

 

Fundamentally, they seem the same to me:

 

Most people with loud pipes either don't think they're annoying, or think they're annoying but don't care because of some perceived benefit (increased power, more desirable sound, safety, etc). A small percentage have them BECAUSE they annoy people, but IMO that's probably a pretty small number.

 

So fundamentally...how is that any different than modulators?

 

Most people who have headlight modulators either don't think they're annoying, or think they are but don't care because of some percieved benefit (safety).

 

Seems exactly the same to me.

 

Sure...loud pipes are illegal, but like I said...that's just a technicality. Enough riders had loud pipes that they pissed off enough people to go get laws passed.

 

Edit: I've thought it over and I changed my mind. Earlier I said people who ride with modulators are more annoying than people who ride with their high beam on all the time during the day. After more thought, I changed my mind. Except for the asshat who sits behind me with their f***ing headlight flashing obnoxiously for mile after mile, I think that the "high beam all the time" people are more annoying.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

-The Debate Over Modulators shall henceforth be deemed The Eternal and Endless Debate;

 

THE Eternal and Endless Debate? C'mon, you know there's more than one! We've already got several Eternal and Endless Debates in progress, and this is just one more. A list of some of the other EED's:

• Helmet Laws, And Why You're Wrong About Them
   
  
• How To Check Your Beemer's Oil Properly, And Why You're A Dork For Doing It Wrong
   
  
• How Countersteering REALLY Works
   
  
• Why You Shouldn't Speed, Why I Should, And Why The Cops Should Just Leave Me Alone About It
   
  
• Linked Brakes, and The People Who Love Them
   
  
• Harley Riders: What Can We Do To Help Them?
   
  
• The Moral Turpitude of Stunters
   
  
• The Vacuousness of Posers, and Why They Must Be Stopped
   
  
• How to Break In Your Engine: No, THIS is The Right Way
   
  
• “Breaking It In” Versus “Wearing It In”: You’re Saying It Wrong, and it Make Me Angry

 

That’ll do for now…

[Rocket_Cowboy]

OK, but that's a technicality. i.e. Enough people were annoyed by loud pipes (because enough people got loud pipes) that they pressured their elected officials to pass laws against them.

 

Ok, but were loud pipes ever explicitly made legal? While it's true that at some point, enough people put pressure on their elected officials to get laws passed to disallow loud pipes ... so how did elected officials get pressured to pass a federal law allowing headlight modulators? You know elected officials didn't decide on their own that it was a good idea, or take their own motivation to pass such a law, so is it wrong to think there was a positive motivator in play that differentiates loud pipes from headlight modulators?

 

I use neither a headlight modulator nor loud pipes, just curious in the constructive debate.

[Lets_Play_Two]

June issue of Motorcycle Consumer News has an article on headlight modulators. Lots of anecdotal information with a spattering of reference to Hurt report. More fodder for the debate.

[Lets_Play_Two]

Ok, but were loud pipes ever explicitly made legal? While it's true that at some point, enough people put pressure on their elected officials to get laws passed to disallow loud pipes ... so how did elected officials get pressured to pass a federal law allowing headlight modulators? You know elected officials didn't decide on their own that it was a good idea, or take their own motivation to pass such a law, so is it wrong to think there was a positive motivator in play that differentiates loud pipes from headlight modulators?

 

I use neither a headlight modulator nor loud pipes, just curious in the constructive debate.

 

I don't know for sure (but I don't think that alone excludes me from this debate) but I bet there is no constitutional prohibition against loud pipes so at some point they were legal (of course, even now I don't think all loud pipes are illegal). Then noise became an issue, not just pipe noise, and laws were passed, IMHO. On the other hand my guess would be that initially modulated headlights were "considered" illegal in relation to the use by emergency vehicles and then a law was passed to implicitly make them legal....just like motorcycles in HOV lanes. So, loud pipes went from legal to illegal and modualtors went from "illegal" to legal. So what does that mean???? I don't know I'm just sitting here waiting for a patient to arrive.

[Ken H.]

Most people with loud pipes either don't think they're annoying, or think they're annoying but don't care because of some perceived benefit (increased power, more desirable sound, safety, etc). A small percentage have them BECAUSE they annoy people, but IMO that's probably a pretty small number.

 

Most people who have headlight modulators either don't think they're annoying, or think they are but don't care because of some perceived benefit (safety).

I read these two statements as you are using "most people" in the context of 'most bikers'. Yes?

 

But that's core to my eternal struggle, "most people" is actually the 97% (or whatever it is) of people who don't ride. I try and try to get bikers to open up their minds enough to look at bike issues from the perspective of all the non-bikers of the world. It seems like by-and-large bikers are the very definition of narcissists; totally incapable of looking at anything other than from their own self-centered desires/opinions on any given related subject. And that's just plain wrong, and will be our undoing.

 

Pipes and modulators are different because their 'annoyance scope' is different. Loud pipes create havoc and resentment across a wide swath of society. And are repetitive and significantly interfere with other peoples' lives. And an important factor is that this interference with their lives is primarily not just when they are driving down the road in their cages and hear a loud bike. Rather it is when they are engaging in other life activities that the interference with their life by the loud bike is most pronounced and creates the most resentment.

 

On-the-other-hand, headlight modulators are very narrow in the scope of interference/annoyance they (possibly) create of other (again - non-riders) people and are limited, brief and fleeting. And are by and large a one-time on the road occurrence for the vast majority of the non-riding public that encounter them. Which most certainly cannot be said about loud pipes.

 

Pin pricking my neighbor in the arm and hit him in the head with sledge hammer are both annoying to him and one is (probably) legal, and the other decidedly not. But the scope of interference with his life of each of these are dramatically different. So it goes with pipes vs. modulators.

 

There are lots of things in life that irritate lots of people. (Want to see my list sometime? ) But society weighs the pros & cons of each of them and decides by some mechanism (abet flawed at times) how to deal with them. At this juncture in time society has decided that the pros of modulators out weigh the cons, and the cons of loud pipes outweigh the pros. And that's the way it should be in a successful civilization. The needs of the many outweigh the wants of the one.

[Couchrocket]

And I see that you are taking the bumper stick approach now via your signature. That's annoying too.

What a country!

[steve.foote]

THE Eternal and Endless Debate? C'mon, you know there's more than one! We've already got several Eternal and Endless Debates in progress, and this is just one more. A list of some of the other EED's:

• Helmet Laws, And Why You're Wrong About Them
   
  
• How To Check Your Beemer's Oil Properly, And Why You're A Dork For Doing It Wrong
   
  
• How Countersteering REALLY Works
   
  
• Why You Shouldn't Speed, Why I Should, And Why The Cops Should Just Leave Me Alone About It
   
  
• Linked Brakes, and The People Who Love Them
   
  
• Harley Riders: What Can We Do To Help Them?
   
  
• The Moral Turpitude of Stunters
   
  
• The Vacuousness of Posers, and Why They Must Be Stopped
   
  
• How to Break In Your Engine: No, THIS is The Right Way
   
  
• “Breaking It In” Versus “Wearing It In”: You’re Saying It Wrong, and it Make Me Angry

 

That’ll do for now…

 

 

This is probably the funniest post I've seen in quite a while. Add to that the fact that this is also one of the funniest threads I've seen in quite a while.

 

Only through a thoroughly divided debate can we truely reach the beginning.

[tallman]

Mike,

I'm against people having a different opinion than mine, but it's OK for them to publicly express said opinion and allow me to bask in the glow of my innate brilliance.

If said differing opinion is based purely on anecdotal evidence then said opion shall be relegated to the "I'm way smarter than you are" file.

However, if said opinion is based on research and data, then said opinion will be ignored, challenged by questioning the motive and bias of the

research(er), and relegated to the "I don't care, I know I'm right" file.

Any opinion expressed by a moderator will immediately be filed in the "has way too much time on their hands to be relevant" file.

Any opinion expressed by proprietors, or former proprietors of this board will be subject to scrutiny and public ridicule, every chance I get.

Every opinion expressed by yours truly, is just that.

A bargain at twice the price, and not woth the cyberspace it is manifested in .

 

High beams all the time?

Annoying.

Headlight modulators?

Annoying.

People who don't ride?

Annoying.

People who do ride?

Annoying.

Riders who check their oil level, using a headlight modulator for illumination, without wearing a helmet, after improperly wearing in the engine of their motorcycle equiped with linked breaks ?

Annoying.

[Mike]

THE Eternal and Endless Debate? C'mon, you know there's more than one! We've already got several Eternal and Endless Debates in progress, and this is just one more. A list of some of the other EED's:

• Helmet Laws, And Why You're Wrong About Them
   
  
• How To Check Your Beemer's Oil Properly, And Why You're A Dork For Doing It Wrong
   
  
• How Countersteering REALLY Works
   
  
• Why You Shouldn't Speed, Why I Should, And Why The Cops Should Just Leave Me Alone About It
   
  
• Linked Brakes, and The People Who Love Them
   
  
• Harley Riders: What Can We Do To Help Them?
   
  
• The Moral Turpitude of Stunters
   
  
• The Vacuousness of Posers, and Why They Must Be Stopped
   
  
• How to Break In Your Engine: No, THIS is The Right Way
   
  
• “Breaking It In” Versus “Wearing It In”: You’re Saying It Wrong, and it Make Me Angry

 

That’ll do for now…

 

 

This is probably the funniest post I've seen in quite a while. Add to that the fact that this is also one of the funniest threads I've seen in quite a while.

 

Only through a thoroughly divided debate can we truely reach the beginning.

 

That was a pretty good post that ol' Mitch did there, eh? It failed only in its omission of:

 

-Synthetic or dyno . . . and why it must/must not be changed every 3,000 miles.

[russell_bynum]

Pipes and modulators are different because their 'annoyance scope' is different. Loud pipes create havoc and resentment across a wide swath of society. And are repetitive and significantly interfere with other peoples' lives. And an important factor is that this interference with their lives is primarily not just when they are driving down the road in their cages and hear a loud bike. Rather it is when they are engaging in other life activities that the interference with their life by the loud bike is most pronounced and creates the most resentment.

 

On-the-other-hand, headlight modulators are very narrow in the scope of interference/annoyance they (possibly) create of other (again - non-riders) people and are limited, brief and fleeting. And are by and large a one-time on the road occurrence for the vast majority of the non-riding public that encounter them. Which most certainly cannot be said about loud pipes.

 

OK, I'm with you. The scope and magnitude of the annoyance is smaller with modulators. But it's still the same basic thing. I'm annyoing you. Not only do I know that I'm annoying you, but I don't care because the thing I'm doing to annoy you is worthwhile to me.

 

At this juncture in time society has decided that the pros of modulators out weigh the cons, and the cons of loud pipes outweigh the pros.

 

Do you suppose that would be different if every motorcycle sold automatically had a modulator installed and running?

 

i.e. If the magnitude of the annoyance was increased so that every bike you come across has an obnoxious flashing headlight, do you think enough people would be annoyed to do something about it?

 

Right now I MAYBE see one bike a month with an obnoxious flashing headlight. When I see one, I make snide comments about that one particular rider, but it is just that one guy who's pissed me off. If every bike (or the majority of bikes) were running around obnoxiously flashing their headlights, then it would be "Motorcyclists" who are the problem.

[DiggerJim]

I'm annyoing you. Not only do I know that I'm annoying you, but I don't care because the thing I'm doing to annoy you is worthwhile to me.

I find other people farting annoying.

 

[leikam]

If every bike (or the majority of bikes) were running around obnoxiously flashing their headlights, then it would be "Motorcyclists" who are the problem.

 

I see it as an arms race where one tries to escalate one's own "visibility" over the surrounding traffic. What happens when cars move from running lights (or just the headlights that people leave on during the day) to modulators. What if every single vehicle on the road were modulating? Oy!

 

Do you know what I do when somebody with a modulating light is behind me? I adjust my mirror(s) so that I can't see the light at all.

[russell_bynum]

Do you know what I do when somebody with a modulating light is behind me? I adjust my mirror(s) so that I can't see the light at all.

 

I do the same thing.

[chrisz]

I do the same thing.

 

Next time just move over an let me pass

[Jerry Johnston]

Geez, I thought I was the only one who knew that secret. It helps eliminate the annoying flashing red and blue lights as well.

[steve.foote]

Pipes and modulators are different because their 'annoyance scope' is different.

 

It's also more likely that your state representative, mayor, city council member, sherriff, police chief, probate judge, etc., who ride are riding bikes with loud pipes.

 

At least that's the way it works around here.

[russell_bynum]

I do the same thing.

 

Next time just move over an let me pass

 

Naturally. I'm talking about times where it doesn't make sense to move over...like when you're nose-to-tail in heavy traffic and some asshat is glued to my bumper with their headlight obnoxiously flashing.

[bakerzdosen]

Geez, I thought I was the only one who knew that secret.

I'm quite new at this game, and I figured that out after only a minute or two of riding with one behind me at Torrey last Fall... Of course, the smaller they get in the mirror, the less annoying they are.

[ghaverkamp]

Naturally. I'm talking about times where it doesn't make sense to move over...like when you're nose-to-tail in heavy traffic and some asshat is glued to my bumper with their headlight obnoxiously flashing.

 

Why not just stop looking at your mirrors? I wouldn't want to adjust mine; getting them back into adjustment can be a pain.

 

And that, as I wrote earlier, is the distinction between modulators and loud pipes. I can not look in my mirrors; I can't not hear.

 

I do sort of wish I had time to get a modulator installed before Torrey, though.

[russell_bynum]

And that, as I wrote earlier, is the distinction between modulators and loud pipes. I can not look in my mirrors; I can't not hear.

 

In the car, I can see the left and center mirrors in my peripheral vision. So...even if I'm not actively looking in the mirrors there's still this obnoxious flashing thing in the corner of my eye.

[Rocket_Cowboy]

I don't know for sure (but I don't think that alone excludes me from this debate) but I bet there is no constitutional prohibition against loud pipes so at some point they were legal (of course, even now I don't think all loud pipes are illegal). Then noise became an issue, not just pipe noise, and laws were passed, IMHO. On the other hand my guess would be that initially modulated headlights were "considered" illegal in relation to the use by emergency vehicles and then a law was passed to implicitly make them legal....just like motorcycles in HOV lanes. So, loud pipes went from legal to illegal and modualtors went from "illegal" to legal. So what does that mean???? I don't know I'm just sitting here waiting for a patient to arrive.

 

No worries, I don't know either, so it's all good.

 

I understand your logic. To clarify though, at some point before emergency vehicles used flashing lights, there was no law for or against headlight modulators. So the question would really be, after emergency vehicles started using flashing lights ... was the federal law allowing modulators on motorcycles written to reverse a previous stance that made them illegal, or was it written to clarify a poorly worded law which gave the impression that they were illegal, when they really weren't? I mean, it could be that they were never really illegal on bikes at all, or at least not consistently so, and so the federal law allowing them was passed simply for clarification, not revocation of a previous statute.

 

Along the lines of annoying people on purpose...I know I annoy the fudge out of people with my hi-viz Roadcrafter. They see me on the road and think I'm a cop, and so the panic and start driving correctly. Then once they realize I'm not a LEO, they go back to their normal rude driving. Should hi-viz jackets also be outlawed like modulators and loud pipes?

[russell_bynum]

...I know I annoy the fudge out of people with my hi-viz Roadcrafter. They see me on the road and think I'm a cop, and so the panic and start driving correctly

 

I've never seen a LEO wearing HI-Viz anything do people actually mistake you for a cop because of your hi-viz?

[Rocket_Cowboy]

...I know I annoy the fudge out of people with my hi-viz Roadcrafter. They see me on the road and think I'm a cop, and so the panic and start driving correctly

 

I've never seen a LEO wearing HI-Viz anything do people actually mistake you for a cop because of your hi-viz?

 

I've never seen a moto-cop in the DFW area wearing hi-viz, but the cops in squad cars usually wear hi-viz jackets in the rain.

 

But I swear, I'm about to go back to my old gray stich because of the way people freak out around me on the road like they think I'm in law enforcement. Maybe it's just the combination of the jacket and the RT (we do have some departments running RTPs out here, but most of them are still 1150s).

 

Cass has even commented on it when she's following me in her truck, that the other cars around me start acting as though they're following a police car ... no one will pass, everyone's touchy on the brakes to not pull along side me.

 

Maybe it just means my bike is too clean and needs to be ridden more.

[bakerzdosen]

Then once they realize I'm not a LEO, they go back to their normal rude driving. Should hi-viz jackets also be outlawed like modulators and loud pipes?

No, but white Crown Vic's most definitely should be.

[Lets_Play_Two]

Then once they realize I'm not a LEO, they go back to their normal rude driving. Should hi-viz jackets also be outlawed like modulators and loud pipes?

No, but white Crown Vic's most definitely should be.

 

And rotating spotlights mounted on the windshield pillar!!

[Rocket_Cowboy]

No, but white Crown Vic's most definitely should be.

 

And rotating spotlights mounted on the windshield pillar!!

 

I'd agree with that! Why old people who prefer to run 7mph below the speed limit on the Interstates feel the need to also drive Police Interceptors is a mystery to me.