A problem with Honda ST 1300 police bikes

[chevyfleetside]

Here is the story link.. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/merseyside/6600897.stm

 

 

 

Last Updated: Friday, 27 April 2007, 19:29 GMT 20:29 UK

 

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Police bike is 'serious threat'

 

Pc Shreeve was described as an experienced biker

A standard issue police motorbike used by 22 forces poses a "serious threat" to riders' lives, a coroner has said.

Dr James Adeley is to write to chief constables across England and Wales to warn them of a "catastrophic result" which can occur with the Honda model.

 

He was speaking at an inquest into the death of Pc David Shreeve, of Wirral, who was thrown off a bike in training.

 

Honda said safety was paramount and it would continue to liaise with the police in light of the coroner's words.

 

Pc Shreeve, 38, was travelling at about 110mph along the M58 motorway near Skelmersdale, Lancashire, on 9 November 2005 when he lost control.

 

The inquest in Lancaster heard that the bike began to shake violently in a phenomenon known as high speed weave.

 

The Merseyside Police officer was crushed to death under a lorry after he fell off.

 

Dr Adeley recorded a narrative verdict into the death.

 

We will continue to liaise with the police in light of the coroner's verdict

 

Honda spokeswoman

 

The Preston and West Lancashire coroner told the inquest that after Pc Shreeve's death the model underwent comprehensive safety checks.

 

In one test an examiner broke his leg and fractured both wrists after being thrown off in another high speed weave.

 

One Lancashire Constabulary examiner, Peter Wilson, reported the problem was "the worst weave on any bike he had tested in his career", the inquest heard.

 

Merseyside Police immediately withdrew all models from service after the accident, but there are about 450 police Honda ST1300s being used by officers across the country.

 

The inquest was told that problems affected only police models of the motorcycle with their heavy emergency and communications equipment.

 

Merseyside Police withdrew the Honda ST1300A at the time of this incident, and has not used the bike since

 

Assistant Chief Constable Patricia Gallan, Merseyside Police

 

Pc Shreeve was described as a "good officer and a nice fellow" who was a "careful, competent, not panicky and a cerebral rider".

 

Assistant Chief Constable Patricia Gallan of Merseyside Police said: "The death of Dave has been a tragic loss of an experienced and popular officer who spent much of his time helping his colleagues and mentoring officers of less experience than himself.

 

"Merseyside Police withdrew the Honda ST1300A at the time of this incident, and has not used the bike since.

 

"We're grateful that the coroner recognises the professionalism of our trainers and that David Shreeve, nor the Force, was in any way responsible for this tragic incident."

 

Honda said it had a strong working relationship with the majority of the police forces across the UK, which had lasted more than 15 years.

 

"For Honda the safety of our riders is paramount," a spokeswoman said.

 

"We will continue to liaise with the police in light of the coroner's verdict.

[Rocket_Cowboy]

Old news. Not sure why that news report is dated today, but that accident along with the departments' withdrawals of the ST1300P in Europe are at least 18 months old.

[RFW]

I might me more impressed with Honda if their hired mouth would speak proper English instead of "managerese". "Continue to liase...??" There is no such verb as "to liase".

[AdventurePoser]

I might me more impressed with Honda if their hired mouth would speak proper English instead of "managerese". "Continue to liase...??" There is no such verb as "to liase".

 

Maybe someone should "gift" them with a dictionary. Another noun turned into a verb. The mangling of the English language continues.

 

Sorry for the hijack. I couldn't resist. Now back to mode.

 

Steve

[blkvelvt]

Liase=the ability to sound like you know something by saying nothing and to conclude without making decisions or doing anything.

 

I believe my wife knows how to "liase"

[motorman587]

Training at 110mph, SWEET!! I am lucky if I hit 32mph in the cone weave.

[Steve W.]

Wonder why they don't use Hinkleys for copper bikes?

Cheers

Steve

[Boffin]

Wonder why they don't use Hinkleys for copper bikes?

Cheers

Steve

 

Honda do a ST1300-P out of the shop, Triumph have made a decision not to offer a factory police model.

 

This issue has come back to the fore because the inquest into the death of the of the officer has just closed and the coroner has sent a letter to the chief constables of all UK police forces voicing his concerns. I believe that this will lead to UK police forces dropping the ST1300-P altogether because, after this letter, if an officer is injured due to a weave-induced accident then the police authority would have virtually no defence against a suit.

 

It should be emphasised that the weave issue has only been seen on authority bikes, which in the UK carry a lot of heavy emergency equipment as well as the lights/sirens/radios etc.

 

Andy

[ghaverkamp]

There is no such verb as "to liase".

 

Of course not. That's an infinitive.

 

(Meanwhile, dictionaries do seem to believe "liaise" is a verb.)

[JohnBeaven]

How about a civilian bike fully loaded for touring?

[Rocket_Cowboy]

Had no problems with any kind of high speed weave with my ST1300 fully loaded up for a 2 week tour.

[NickRT]

The reason this is new news is that the Inquest into the death of the Constable from Merseyside has only recently occurred after many months of investigation. I should correct the earlier response from my fellow countryman by pointing out that BMW are the only motorcycle manufacturer to produce single seat police motorcycles ex-factory. The Honda STX 1300 police motorcycles are civilian spec bikes that are modified by a firm called Sonic Communications of Birmingham. My own force (Lincolnshire) has 8 of these machines which have been placed out of use for almost a year now as a result of the ongoing investigations into their critical instability at speed. I have been fortunate enough to test the R1200RT(P) and can vouch for the fact that it is stable at 130mph.

[Roadwolf]

I should correct the earlier response from my fellow countryman by pointing out that BMW are the only motorcycle manufacturer to produce single seat police motorcycles ex-factory.

 

Uh, not sure what you mean by "ex-factory" but if you mean factory built, then that is not true... Honda does indeed make a Authority version called the ST1300PA, it has one seat and a box for electronics where the rear seat would normally be... the bike comes minus the siren and lights, which means it can be kitted out from various vendors.

 

http://powersports.honda.com/police_cruiser/index.asp

[Horse]

BMW are the only motorcycle manufacturer to produce single seat police motorcycles ex-factory. The Honda STX 1300 police motorcycles are civilian spec bikes that are modified by a firm called Sonic Communications of Birmingham.

 

Don't they do the same task as Vehicle Developments at Andover do for BMW? http://www.vehicledevelopments.com/ IIRC they added all the [sonic!] radio gear on to my (now ex-)DSA R850RT.

 

Still, this is history repeating, it wasn't too many years ago that BMW had similar grief after high-speed instability.

 

That seemed to be similar issue, and compared with civvie loads it - from what I heard - was to do with the way the loads were rigidly mounted.

[waylap]

I had a scary high speed wobble on a 2004 Harley electra glide police bike chasing a hyabusa at about 110mph. It started with a slight "wagging" in the rear end like a dog wagging it's tail. It quickly shifted up into the entire bike with the handbars uncontollably steering themselves back and forth. I could see my headlight swinging back and forth in the early morning darkness and I was in the middle of a six lane roadway with no ability to shift lanes. It was only a ten second ordeal but seemed like a lifetime. I seriously thought about jumping off 3 or 4 times as I leaned as best I could over the front handlebars and slowly decreased speed. I was finally under contol again when I got below 70-80 mph or so but I was shaking from head to toe. I'll never forget it or take a Harley over 90 again. I switched back to a patrol car about six months later and enjoy my 1150RT on my days off. Be careful fellows.

[eddd]

Chasing a Hyabusa at about 110mph?? on a Harley police bike??

 

I'm sure glad you came out of it OK, but that sure seems like a no-win situation, unless the Hyabusa had a flat tire or two.

[GregB]

It started with a slight "wagging" in the rear end like a dog wagging it's tail. It quickly shifted up into the entire bike with the handbars uncontollably steering themselves back and forth.

I remember this being known as the "Harley Hula". I recall that it came on slowly enough that the bike was telling you "No, I don't want to go that fast". I wonder if they have "improved" the handling to the point where it starts later/faster but with less warning.

[baggerchris]

Seeing as how the bagger Hd's all tie the back wheel to the rubber mounted tranny and engine I doubt that they have changed much. The system is just not condusive to expert handling at high speed, especially going through a sweeper and hitting a slight bump, or adjusting throttle. Just try and imagine how they handle after three or four years of use and the rubber mounts become slightly worn. Not a good thing in my humble opinion of having ridden them for 35 years. They just don't seem to have the precise high speed handling that the Beemers do.

[BigGalloot]

How about a civilian bike fully loaded for touring?

 

I guess that depends on what you consider "loaded." The ST only has a carrying capacity of 395#. This means that if you have an American man(180#) and woman(155#) of average weight on the bike, you have already exceeded the "safe" limits of the bike.

 

source: http://www.halls.md/chart/height-weight.htm

[blkvelvt]

I get 60 pounds under maximum with 180+155=335

[Roadwolf]

Must be that new math!

[DiggerJim]

I get 60 pounds under maximum with 180+155=335

Gotta add the gasoline (42lbs) + misc other fluids (8lbs maybe) gives you another 50 lbs which leaves only 10 lbs for farkles and other stuff.

 

Jim

[marcopolo]

I stopped when I got to the part where the average American woman weighs 155 lbs.

[blkvelvt]

My wife is around 115 to 120, so I got room for 35 pounds of Beer

[George]

I see the Scottish Police have now withdrawn their Honda ST1300 Police bikes now

[Albion]

Interestingly, our local police, West Mercia, used to run all-Honda. When I did the Bikesafe weekend with these guys a couple of years ago, they were complaining about the weave.

 

But it's rare to see any traffic police vehicle on the roads at all hereabouts, as the 'policing' nowadays is handled by revenue-raising speed cameras. (Operated by the satirically named 'Safety Camera Partnership'. Zzzzzz.)

 

Back to the point, actually saw a real live motorbike cop yesterday, riding a shiny new R1200RT-P, nattily tricked out in fluo yellow.

 

Wonderful! See da light!