Best engine oil

[gasser]

Any good tests on the best engine oil for bikes? I am using Castrol GTX 20W50, changing every 3,000 miles. Lots of propaganda out there and AMSOIL seems to own most of it.

[Paul Mihalka]

Tomreilly, welcome to this asylum! Your question will generate a few laughs as your subject has been discussed to death quite a few times.

But let me go first. Changing oil every 3000 miles is throwing away money. It has been proven by several laboratory tests that changing oil/filter at the factory recommended 6000 miles or once a year is more than safe. Which oil? As many answers as there are oils. I'm sure Castrol GTX is a perfectly good oil. I have the personal conviction that in normal use - no race track, no uphill trailer pulling on a 110 degree day - with Walmart oil the engine will last just as long as with the most sophisticated synthetic. Let me quickly put on my bulletproof vest before this last statement sinks in

[gasser]

Thanks for the feedback. I feel quite at home in the asylum. I've tried different oils over the years and have been anal in changing oils. I'm one of these guys that changes bikes before they run to the upper limits. The most I have ever put on a bike is my current HD Dresser and it has 33,000 and uses drops of oil between changes. Now that ought to generate some laughs on this site--a HD that uses no oil!

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts.

[Tasker]

The most I have ever put on a bike is my current HD Dresser and it has 33,000 and uses drops of oil between changes. Now that ought to generate some laughs on this site--a HD that uses no oil!

 

That's a lot less than my 2006 GS uses!

[Ken H.]

Had an oil analysis done on our R1200GS, Castro GTX 20W50 dyno oil with 6000 miles on the oil. All parameters of the oil were still well within normal ranges. Indeed the additives analysis showed them less than 50% depleted. Contaminants levels well below limits when a change would be needed. They recommended extending the next interval to 8000.

 

We chronically change oil way to often in all vehicles IMHO.

[Lawman]

Thanks...interesting..

[BucksTherapy]

A number of folks on this site do not recommend using synthetic until the engine is fully broken in as oil consumption is higher during break in.

 

I have seen estimates of 15000 to 30000 for break in.

 

I use Castrol GTX 20w50 dyno oil and will continue to do so until 25k, then it is off to Mobil 1 15w50 fully synthetic. I have done this with previous oil heads and it has worked fine.

 

With that said I am not so sure these engines will perform any differently over the long haul regardless of what engine oil is used. It just seems to make me feel better to use good quality.

[Tony_K]

then it is off to Mobil 1 15w50 fully synthetic.

 

Canadians still have the standard Mobil1 15W/ 50 option

but in the US

we are now given the "extended performance"

 

What that means is basically a price increase per quart!

Go USA Mobil marketing!!!!!

http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_Extended_Performance_15W-50.aspx

[Fergie]

Paul, interesting comment on Wal-Mart verses synthetic oil. In 1985 a friend of mine and I bought a K100RT at the same time. Another friend was trying to get me to try Amsoil so I did. I changed my final drive fluid and put Amsoil in. Whenever we went riding together, same bike same riding, you couldn't put your hand on his final drive housing but you could on mine. My thought on that was , less friction less heat, synthetic must be better. Have I been throwing my money away sence then. Or is it that conventional oil is all that you really need to get the most out of a vehicle.

[Tony_K]

I changed my final drive fluid and put Amsoil in.

 

In Paul's defence Wayne you somehow switched the subject from engine oil to final drive GEAR oil.

 

Too very different concepts both equally riddled with the pondorous "which oil" quandary.

[4wheeldog]

Paul, interesting comment on Wal-Mart verses synthetic oil. In 1985 a friend of mine and I bought a K100RT at the same time. Another friend was trying to get me to try Amsoil so I did. I changed my final drive fluid and put Amsoil in. Whenever we went riding together, same bike same riding, you couldn't put your hand on his final drive housing but you could on mine. My thought on that was , less friction less heat, synthetic must be better. Have I been throwing my money away sence then. Or is it that conventional oil is all that you really need to get the most out of a vehicle.

 

I tried the hand-on-the-final-drive test 15 miles after the dealer replaced mine on warranty......Turns out the housing stays cool when there is no gear lube to tranfer the heat to the housing! Made it 90 miles home at 80 mph before it locked up.

[Fergie]

I wasn't slamming Paul. Just wanted more info on synthetic. If it's not better I'm not wasting my money anymore. I am using synthetic engine oil in all my vehicles except my new BMW. Need more thoughts from people like Paul that seem to know about oils.

[Fergie]

Bill, that really sucks. Hope the dealer made it right. On mine back in 85 I did myself so I know there was oil in it.

[Dave_in_TX]

I don't really disagree with Paul, but I plan to switch my RT over to synthetic soon. It's at the extremes where synthetic sometimes has advantages. Since the RT is oil cooled, it's possible that comuting duty in a hot Texas summer could put extra stress on the engine oil. Most synthetics are more heat tolerant than conventional oils.

[myshkin]

I have to agree with Paul also. I had the good fortune to sit next to an engineer from Castrol on a flight once. At the time Castrol did not manufacture synthetic oil and I asked him why and he said that using synthetics was a waste of money if you were going to stick to normal maintenance intervals. That said I used to have the oil from my truck's diesel analyzed by Blackstone and they consistently recommended longer and longer oil change intervals. IMHO, 20w50 weight of any major brand will serve your needs quite well and if it makes you feel better to spend more and put symthetic in the bike, then go for it. My '84 porsche gets Mobil 1 15w40 but I only change the oil every year or 10000 miles. I have used Castrol 20w50 in every BMW car and bike, and never had any excess oil usage due to seals, valve guides or ring wear.

[KDeline]

We chronically change oil way to often in all vehicles IMHO.

 

I agree, I am on the other side and probably go to far, change every 12000 to 15000 miles, whenever is convenient for me. Just got tired of changing out oil all the time, I use a good synthetic, change the filter out every 6000 to 7000 miles. FYI I did an oil annalist at 18000 miles and they said the oil was still good, that was with a top off of about a quart.

[lubie]

I sell Amsoil, so guess what I use! I heard all the stuff about not going synthetic until after 12k or so, but I swithed both my 1200RT and my wife's 1150R at the 3k change. Neither uses any oil, at least not that's noticable. I fix cars for a living and I've seen it all. I figure if you take care of your stuff and maintain it like Mr. Owners Manual says, you should do pretty well no matter what oil you use. My friends dad uses recycled 20w in his car and he has no oil related problems in over 100k. Who'd a thunk it?

[Paul Mihalka]

I sell Amsoil, so guess what I use! I heard all the stuff about not going synthetic until after 12k or so, but I swithed both my 1200RT and my wife's 1150R at the 3k change. Neither uses any oil, at least not that's noticable. I fix cars for a living and I've seen it all. I figure if you take care of your stuff and maintain it like Mr. Owners Manual says, you should do pretty well no matter what oil you use. My friends dad uses recycled 20w in his car and he has no oil related problems in over 100k. Who'd a thunk it?

And that coming from a Amsoil dealer. 'Nough said...

[Firefight911]

I love oil topics................

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[myshkin]

"I love oil topics................ "

 

 

Well there certainly better than CCW.

[beemer_me_up]

Thanks, after reading all these treads I guess I will use synthic, no regular oil every 3000, or is it 6000, didn't someone say every 8000. 20/50 is the best or was it 10/40.

Glad thats cleared up.

[wilsons]

20/50 and every 6K or once a year (which ever comes first)

 

Gonna try that on this change of oil. I'll let ya know what I find.

[Parrothead]

Lets see if I have this right. If I use my bike less than 8000 miles per year and use Walmart 20-50 dino oil, I can safely replace at one year intervals? Is this what I read??????

[Paul Mihalka]

Lets see if I have this right. If I use my bike less than 8000 miles per year and use Walmart 20-50 dino oil, I can safely replace at one year intervals? Is this what I read??????

I would stick closer to the BMW recommended 6000 mile or one year interval, otherwise it should be OK.

[russell_bynum]

Thanks, after reading all these treads I guess I will use synthic, no regular oil every 3000, or is it 6000, didn't someone say every 8000. 20/50 is the best or was it 10/40.

Glad thats cleared up.

 

It isn't that complicated, really.

 

We've got three choices regarding drain intervals and oil choices:

1. Go with BMW's recomendation

2. Experiment with different oil (synth/dino/etc) and longer/shorter drain intervals. Send the used oil in for analysis to see where you stand.

3. Operate on guesswork, withcraft, voodoo, and old shade-tree mechanic's stories.

[bakerzdosen]

We've got three choices regarding drain intervals and oil choices:

1. Go with BMW's recomendation

2. Experiment with different oil (synth/dino/etc) and longer/shorter drain intervals. Send the used oil in for analysis to see where you stand.

3. Operate on guesswork, withcraft, voodoo, and old shade-tree mechanic's stories.

 

4. Try to make sense of all the oil threads on bmwst.com (in addition to the other forums) until you're so confused that you just let the dealer do it (this one last time). But you'll have plenty of time to figure things out by NEXT oil change.

[beemer_me_up]

Thanks. Ive been doing #3 but will give #1 a try. Going to the dealer is out. It's so easy to change the oil on the RT. Ive been using the BMW 20/50. Is it any better than the castrol or just more expensive.

[marcopolo]

Thanks. Ive been doing #3 but will give #1 a try. Going to the dealer is out. It's so easy to change the oil on the RT. Ive been using the BMW 20/50. Is it any better than the castrol or just more expensive.

 

FWIW, in Canada we have "BMW recommends Castrol" plastered all over the back cover of our owners' manuals. I use, or should I say my independent BMW tech uses, Castrol 20W50. I don't know any BMW owner who uses BMW oil. The dealer in Montreal where I bought my bike uses Motul oil.

[Paul Mihalka]

I think BMW brand motorcycle oil is only in the USA. Castrol USA and Castrol anywhere else may be different due to different regulations.

[Bob Palin]

Castrol USA and Castrol anywhere else may be different due to different regulations.

Quite correct, Castrol GTX in the US does not have the BMW required level of ZDDP.

[99Roadster]

Castrol USA and Castrol anywhere else may be different due to different regulations.

Quite correct, Castrol GTX in the US does not have the BMW required level of ZDDP.

 

Is there a formulation of Castrol in the USA that does?

 

Why would BMW print an owners manual for the US with the same Castrol recommendation if the required oil is not available - or is that a rhetorical question?

[Bob Palin]

Is there a formulation of Castrol in the USA that does?

I don't know. I'm using Shell Rotella synthetic.

 

Why would BMW print an owners manual for the US with the same Castrol recommendation if the required oil is not available - or is that a rhetorical question?

I asked that very question when the dealer told me I had voided my warranty by using GTX, he said they use the same manual for all the English speaking countries.

[marcopolo]

Is there a formulation of Castrol in the USA that does?

I don't know. I'm using Shell Rotella synthetic.

 

Why would BMW print an owners manual for the US with the same Castrol recommendation if the required oil is not available - or is that a rhetorical question?

I asked that very question when the dealer told me I had voided my warranty by using GTX, he said they use the same manual for all the English speaking countries.

 

The Castrol oil I use (here in Canada) is "Castrol Grand Prix 4 Stroke Motorcycle Oil", SAE 20W-50.

 

When you look at the bottom of the product data sheet from Castrol Canada's website, you'll see the address in New Jersey for BP Lubricants USA, and the web addresses for both Castrol Canada and Castrol USA. You'd think this oil, or its equivalent, would be available south of the border. If you're curious, follow the link below, and click on the product data sheet in the right hand column.

 

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/multipleproductsection.do?categoryId=8320029&contentId=6008291

[Dave_in_TX]

Is there a formulation of Castrol in the USA that does?

I don't know. I'm using Shell Rotella synthetic.

 

Why would BMW print an owners manual for the US with the same Castrol recommendation if the required oil is not available - or is that a rhetorical question?

I asked that very question when the dealer told me I had voided my warranty by using GTX, he said they use the same manual for all the English speaking countries.

 

The Castrol oil I use (here in Canada) is "Castrol Grand Prix 4 Stroke Motorcycle Oil", SAE 20W-50.

 

When you look at the bottom of the product data sheet from Castrol Canada's website, you'll see the address in New Jersey for BP Lubricants USA, and the web addresses for both Castrol Canada and Castrol USA. You'd think this oil, or its equivalent, would be available south of the border. If you're curious, follow the link below, and click on the product data sheet in the right hand column.

 

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/multipleproductsection.do?categoryId=8320029&contentId=6008291

 

Castrol motorcycle oil and Castrol GTX are two differrent ols. GTX is one of Castrol's car oils.

[99Roadster]

Is there a formulation of Castrol in the USA that does?

I don't know. I'm using Shell Rotella synthetic.

 

Why would BMW print an owners manual for the US with the same Castrol recommendation if the required oil is not available - or is that a rhetorical question?

I asked that very question when the dealer told me I had voided my warranty by using GTX, he said they use the same manual for all the English speaking countries.

 

The Castrol oil I use (here in Canada) is "Castrol Grand Prix 4 Stroke Motorcycle Oil", SAE 20W-50.

 

When you look at the bottom of the product data sheet from Castrol Canada's website, you'll see the address in New Jersey for BP Lubricants USA, and the web addresses for both Castrol Canada and Castrol USA. You'd think this oil, or its equivalent, would be available south of the border. If you're curious, follow the link below, and click on the product data sheet in the right hand column.

 

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/multipleproductsection.do?categoryId=8320029&contentId=6008291

 

You're right, it's not available in the US. Now I'm really confused

[Jim VonBaden]

Is there a formulation of Castrol in the USA that does?

I don't know. I'm using Shell Rotella synthetic.

 

Why would BMW print an owners manual for the US with the same Castrol recommendation if the required oil is not available - or is that a rhetorical question?

I asked that very question when the dealer told me I had voided my warranty by using GTX, he said they use the same manual for all the English speaking countries.

 

Amazing how many dealer spout that line which is a pure BS threat! They cannot void your warranty for using a different oil without proving that use caused a problem in which you are trying to get them to cover.

 

Jim

[gasser]

Okay Guys

 

Now, I think I understand the asylum. After all these posts, I emailed the Fatherland customer service. Here is what they sent me:

 

Dear Mr. Reilly

 

Contacting BMW Motorrad USA. We appreciate your inquiry.

 

"All BMW motorcycles imported by the USA come from the factory with petroleum based Castrol oil (20W50) in the crankcases. BMW Motorrad USA recommends any motorcycle-dedicated oil (synthetic or petroleum base) throughout the life of the engine, with Castrol being the preferred brand. We do not suggest using synthetic oil until after the 6,000 mile service.

 

Car motor oils have been reformulated and no longer meet the needs of a motorcycle engine. If an automotive oil is used in your motorcycle, clutch damage may be experienced, and BMW Motorrad USA would not be liable for any consequential damage."

 

 

I guess that clears up things?

[myshkin]

"All BMW motorcycles imported by the USA come from the factory with petroleum based Castrol oil (20W50) in the crankcases. BMW Motorrad USA recommends any motorcycle-dedicated oil (synthetic or petroleum base) throughout the life of the engine, with Castrol being the preferred brand. We do not suggest using synthetic oil until after the 6,000 mile service.

 

Car motor oils have been reformulated and no longer meet the needs of a motorcycle engine. If an automotive oil is used in your motorcycle, clutch damage may be experienced, and BMW Motorrad USA would not be liable for any consequential damage."

 

OK, So which petroleum based oils do meet BMW specs????

[MikeB60]

If an automotive oil is used in your motorcycle, clutch damage may be experienced, and BMW Motorrad USA would not be liable for any consequential damage."

 

I would think that any oil will damage the clutch on a hexhead given they have a DRY clutch!

[marcopolo]

If an automotive oil is used in your motorcycle, clutch damage may be experienced, and BMW Motorrad USA would not be liable for any consequential damage."

 

I would think that any oil will damage the clutch on a hexhead given they have a DRY clutch!

 

Bingo; exactly what I was thinking, though, to be fair, don't the newest K bikes have wet clutches?

 

As for what oils, my RT manual says "...API classification SF or better.", and "...ACEA classification A2 or better."

 

The Castrol I use is SG, if I recall.

[Bob Palin]

Amazing how many dealer spout that line which is a pure BS threat! They cannot void your warranty for using a different oil without proving that use caused a problem in which you are trying to get them to cover.

 

Jim

That's along the lines of my reply to him, but I wasn't quite so friendly. That dealer is no more...

 

"SF or better" - that's meaningless, the oil companies will tell you that their latest oils are better, and they may be, but they are also different and not suited to a BMW. A later rating may not meet an earlier spec because of the changes in the specs (reduction of Phosphorous which is an anti-wear agent and pollutant). SH oils do not all meet SJ standards for instance, that was actually part of the point of the SH standard. It's all too complicated, different weights of oil are specified differently with the same S rating, oils intended for diesels have their own ratings (Rotella?). In the end it's almost certain that none of this will matter even if you have an oil related failure, which is unlikely within the warranty period no matter what you use. If you want your motor to run forever use an oil with a high ZDDP number, the makeup of each oil changes all the time and I don't know of an easy way to identify these oils.

 

Research a couple of years ago showed that Shell Rotella was suitable, diesels like to use high wear oils, it's relatively cheap and widely available at WalMart - game over for me, I even put it in my gasoline guzzling Tundra.

 

p.s. I got my Tundra oil changed at WalMart last time in the Tundra, my "server" was a wizened old lady, when I asked for Rotella she frowned and thought for a minute, then said "I didn't know Tundras came with a diesel", I was amazed.

 

p.p.s. I'm not a WalMart fan but they have sucked me into becoming a WalMartian with their convenience and prices, I'm so ashamed.

[LuckyLeif]

Let's see, the delta between using BMW 20w50 at $5.50/qt vrs a generic oil at $2/qt is a grand total of $14. Alternatively, the delta for MC-specific oils would be around $8 -- that's per oil change done at 6000 miles. And the cost of gasoline over that 6000 miles(45 mpg & $3.75/gal) would be $500. To me (YMMV) its worth the extra 8 - 14 bucks for the peace of mind of knowing I am using a lube guaranteed by BMW to work (ie, the right additives, etc.) That delta is equivalent to half a tank of gas. Maybe I'm getting scr-wed over by BMW pricing, but I've gotten worse from others.

[Mudman]

I'm with you 100% Leif. Simply put high risk, low gain. I use the specified oils for all the fleet, I don't see the savings as significant when compared to the values of all the vehicles

 

R1200RT 15W50 BMW Synthetic

BMW 545i 05W30 BMW Synthetic

Boxster 0W40 Mobile 1 acae

Dodge Ram 5w30 Castrol GTX

Honda Quad 10-40 Honda Oil

 

While none of these manufacturers produce motor oil all of them select a oil company that will blend an oil that meets the requirements set by the company. I let the oil changes go according to manufacturer schedule for change, nothing sooner.

 

It makes me feel good and that is what really matters. It's your bike, not BMW's, so use whatever makes you feel good.

[millbert]

The viscosity of the oil matters,to a point,a 20-50 is harder to push around,the friction creates more heat,a 15-40 or a 10-30 (don't think a 10-40 is a true viscosity)is thinner,less friction,more heat transfer.

I use any 15-40 dino diesel oil or Wal-Mart,whatever is cheaper in mine,which is O.K. except in very severe conditions.

[Bob Palin]

(don't think a 10-40 is a true viscosity)

What do you think it is?

[smiller]

From the Internet research I've done it seems that it is the ILSAC GF-4 rating (which is also required for the API 'Starburst' symbol) that causes the concerns because it is this standard that requires the friction modifiers, lower levels of ZDDP, etc. Note that interestingly virtually all car oils are ILSAC GF-4 rated, but not motorcycle oils, diesel oils, or Mobil One 15W-50.

 

Also note the following from the Mobil One website with respect to Mobil One 15W-50:

 

Mobil 1 15W-50 is also recommended for older valve train designs that may benefit from a higher level of anti-wear normally not required for newer generation vehicles. Mobil 1 15W-50 will also provide better anti-wear protection for higher valve spring tensions in certain racing engines.

 

To me this practically advertises that it has higher levels of ZDDP than other oils in their line.

 

[AttackPug]

If an automotive oil is used in your motorcycle, clutch damage may be experienced, and BMW Motorrad USA would not be liable for any consequential damage."

 

I would think that any oil will damage the clutch on a hexhead given they have a DRY clutch!

[myshkin]

This is interesting reading:

http://www.ibmwr.org/otech/oilreport.html

[KDeline]

The viscosity of the oil matters,to a point,a 20-50 is harder to push around,the friction creates more heat,a 15-40 or a 10-30 (don't think a 10-40 is a true viscosity)is thinner,less friction,more heat transfer.

I use any 15-40 dino diesel oil or Wal-Mart,whatever is cheaper in mine,which is O.K. except in very severe conditions.

 

So a slightly thinner weight oil is better than 20-50?

[SirAubergine]

Here's a link to a nice read on the subject: http://www.motor-oil-engineers.com/Motor%20Oil%20Engineers%20PDF.pdf

 

Note with regard to ZDDP, that one reason automotive oils have reduced ZDDP in recent years is to prevent poisoning the exhaust catalyst. This further complicates choosing the correct oil for those with bikes equipped with catalytic converters. Many otherwise excellent motorcycle oils might have ZDDP levels high enough to cause problems with converter-equipped bikes. Finding an oil with high enough ZDDP level to provide sufficient wear protection, but low enough to prevent hurting the converter could be quite a trick, with the oil formulas constantly changing. We have to be aware of what what we're putting into our bikes and why.

 

In the book referenced above, the author praises Amsoil, which is fine, but be aware that some Amsoil products *may* not meet API certification requirements due to high ZDDP levels.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Forrest