Should I keep my RT?

[bluejoeblue]

I love my R12RT. Recently I have been looking at the 07 ST1300 and have seen some good reviews. I haven't had a test ride yet. Would like to see what opinions are out there.

[loujack]

The ST is a fine ride. I know several people who own them and love them. There are some pros and cons to both bikes, and when it all boils down - it will fall to what you like/prefer. Check it out, and try to find someone to let you give theirs for a spin in the summer months. Heck, maybe you'll get lucky and find an ST owner that is considering a switch to the RT and you can just trade... :-)

 

Good luck.

[BucksTherapy]

I have had both and they are both grat bikes.

 

I found the ST to extremely smooth, very fast, comfortable, and very reliable. I also found it generated a lot of heat that was transmitted up through the bike. It handles well but it wasn't flickable(can't think of a better word), if you had to nake a very quick chnage in direction it didn't seem nimble.

 

The RT does not have the power or the high end speed of the ST. It is not as smooth as there is know vibration in the ST. The RT and the ST are both comfortable and on good days I like to think the RT is as reliable. The RT does not ride as smooth as the factory setup in the ST but the RT is much more flickable or nimble. The ABS brakes on the ST were good but did not seem to stop like the RT.

 

These are both great bikes. I have had boxers for years and just had to come back but the 04 STA was a nice bike.

 

Others opinions could differ greatly and I don't know if this does anything but add to your dilemna.

[Rocket_Cowboy]

I pretty much concur with Buck's writeup.

 

I had a 2004 ST1300A, that I traded when I picked up the 06 RT. While I'm a fan of trying out many different bikes, I've had seven bikes now in the six years I've been riding.

 

As for whether you should keep the RT ... that really depends on your reasons for looking at the ST. Both are great bikes ... whether one replaces the other depends on what you're asking of either bike.

[tbloomq]

Just let me know if you want to sell your RT

 

Tom

[JohnBeaven]

 

Nothing. And I mean nothing will get me off my '05 R1200RT.

[SonnyAK]

Keep th RT...I found the ST to be a lot of fun on shorter runs when riding solo, but the RT really comes through on long trips when riding 2-up w/a loaded bike. I also thought my ST was a bit jerky w/the brakes and drive train. The ST's power was great but the RT is a better total package for me...

[drodg]

I love my R12RT. Recently I have been looking at the 07 ST1300 and have seen some good reviews. I haven't had a test ride yet. Would like to see what opinions are out there.

 

How addicted are you to your cruise control.... I am!

[Roadwolf]

Joe,

 

I had an 04 ST1300A and put just over 43,000 miles on it... I recently moved back to BMW and have a new 06RT... I posted my review of the two bikes on ST-Owners.com (a great site, btw), I just am posting it here as well...

 

 

 

Well, it has been just over a month with the new 06 R1200RT and about 1500 miles on the odometer now… someone asked me to give a write up and compare the new with the old, so here goes…

 

First, let’s get this out of the way… I think Honda has a jewel in the ST1300… I have said more than once that it is the long distant cousin that you see at family reunions once every three years and are glad to see. Honda makes a lot of bikes, some of which I don’t care for and some that I think are amazing… but the ST is in a class by itself from Big Red. I thoroughly enjoyed the bike for the two plus years I had it and find the allure of the V-4 irresistible.

 

I had some issues… coolant leaks, thermostat going out (if this isn’t a recall, I don’t know what is), but overall was pleased with my Steed.

 

But to the RT… wow. What a difference from my old RTs (01 1100RT and 02 1150RT)… not even the same ballpark these new hexheads… I have been removed three plus years from my last Beemer, but I remember enough to make this fair comparison… much better all around (wind management, weight, torque, HP, creature comforts – ESA, cruise, luggage designs)…

 

… and compared to the ST, the first thing is weight… I don’t have exact figures, but it is indeed a lot of weight difference between the two bikes… gotta be over 100 lb difference… I feel like I am riding a dirt bike that rides on rails (not that the ST1300 isn’t confidence inspiring at all either). The flickability of the RT is pretty amazing… I can’t decide if I am the better rider because of it or it just is a better handling bike, but taking corners has been notched up for me.

 

Couple of physical comparisons that stick out between the two… the BMW is taller and wider (taller by a wide margin, too… I could easily flat foot the ST in the highest seat position, on the RT, in the highest position, I flatfoot it, barely, and I am 6’3”). The other is that the RT seating position is a little more upright, not much, but more. I still prefer the ST position, more weight on the bars, but I think that is because I am still “programmed” that way after 2 years of it. Ask me in a couple of months and I may have changed my mind.

 

One the thing that BMW Motorrad has finally addressed is the shifting quality of the boxer series… my old BMWs were agricultural in comparison to the ST… now the RT has taken the lead over the ST, really smooth, except for the clunk into 1st, but my ST had that as well. And having a 6th gear is nice again, I found myself at times trying to go up one more gear on the ST when I was tapped out in 5th. I have heard complaints on the K1200GT not having a smooth shifting experience, but that is not the case with the RT.

 

I like the luggage designs of new BMWs as well, with one feature I never thought I’d go without, but now wonder why more don’t and it is this… the locks can be set to allow you to get into the bags without having to use the key… I know some ST owners make the shorted keys and leave them in there for convenience, but I like that the RT’s bags have that feature. I got the 49 liter topcase with the bike upon delivery and it has the same features. They also have the tie down strap in the side cases which has come in handy at the grocery store.

 

The digital display is a bit clear, easier to read in daylight and is chock full of info, I got the oil level computer with mine and the ESA, so it is equipped appropriately in the readout, plus a gear indicator again. Wonder why the ST doesn’t have one? Doesn’t the FJR have one?

 

And speaking of ESA, I like it so far… really a trip to be sitting on the bike in a stationary position and select different preload settings and feel the bike lower or raise according to the settings you select. I hear that the system is expensive to replace when the shocks go, but I have options like Ohlins, Wilburs, etc.

 

Differences between the two bikes are also the following:

 

The ST is faster off the line, given the horsepower differences (I think the RT has 85-90 at the rear wheel and the ST has 116, even with the weight disadvantage the ST has). Top speed is another nod to the ST, but not by much… 142-145 mph vs 136-138 for the RT, based on what I have read, not personal experience, mind you.

 

Heated grips on the ST (Hondaline) had four settings that would get hot on 3 and up… the RT has just two, but do the job almost as well, but the integration is better… on/off switch is right handlebar located, easy to get to while on the ST, you mount wherever you want, just not on the handlebar location.

 

No easy headlight adjustment on RT, under panels, not electrically adjusted like on ST, but lighting on RT is better.

 

Mileage on RT is much better, almost 8 miles per gallon more, according to trip computer. 7.1 gallons and farthest I have gone without risking running dry is 278 miles, probably could have gone a bit farther, but did not want to push the bike.

 

Two words: Cruise control… never had it before this bike… must have it on all my future bikes… Honda, you listening? Next ST, you gotta have this feature! Not ifs, ands or buts! Great to have!

 

Cost of ownership would probably be in the Honda’s favor, but I intend to do as much work on the RT as I can to defray costs (Oil and filter, valve adjustments, etc)… it’s funny the different approaches the Japanese and Germans have… a recent friend of mine put it this way… “the Japanese design for rock solid reliability without much intervention from the owner or serviceman all along the way… the Germans design for rock solid reliability which depends on consistent and meticulous maintenance to make sure everything is in spec.” I have a Passat that is pretty much the same way as the Beemer… treat her nice and she will bring you home… neglect her and she will let you know (oil consumption the first 12 K miles on the RT, keep an eye on it, after that, forget about it… it’s true, both my old RTs were that way… I hear it is the Nikisil liners on the cylinders).

 

This is my initial impression of the RT ownership experience (again) after just a month… I will be noting some impressions/problems/curiosities down the road from time to time as it comes to mind… one thing I have learned that no bike is without faults, and I am sure that I will have my run in with that with this one… the thing that matters most is that I am confident with the bike and it’s ability to get me from point A to B in the twistiest ways possible with a big grin on my face, after all, isn’t that what’s all about?

 

Guy (BamaRider) has got some more info on his two bikes (ST and RT) and he has said a lot about the comparison between his two from all standpoints. I recommend reading his take at http://www.bamarider.com/.

[AZRTRDR]

Yes. Unless it does not physically fit you.

I went from a ST to the RT and have never looked back.

Now of course, this opinion is worth twice that of which you paid for it..

Go ride and smile, which ever you decide!

[Norrie123]

All the Honda ST Police bikes in the UK were recalled after a couple of accidents at high speed and reports of weaving at speed. I don't know if this problem was resolved.

[marcopolo]

BamaRider of this board has both bikes, and has a good comparison of them on his website: http://www.bamarider.com/ Just click on "The Motorcycles" tab.

 

As important as the ride quality is for each, don't forget the creature comforts. If they're important to you, I'd think the RT would have the ST beaten hands down on that one (depending what options you have, e.g., cruise, heated seats and grips).

 

The ST is a bit on the heavy side as compared to the RT, and I believe the RT has the greater load-carrying capacity of the two (you'd have to confirm that).

 

After the ST1300 was introduced, there certainly was a lot of talk in Canada about the notorious high-speed wobble mentioned above. I met one owner who claimed his ST had it, and was not having much luck getting Honda to do anything about it. I haven't heard much about it of late, except for the reports about UK police bikes.

[velomoto]

All the Honda ST Police bikes in the UK were recalled after a couple of accidents at high speed and reports of weaving at speed. I don't know if this problem was resolved.

Checkout STwiki which lists changes between model years. Per this list, there were chassis modifications made in 2003 "to correct high-speed wobble on 2002's".

 

Looking over the list of changes Honda has made to the ST1300 - it is clearly evident Honda is following BMW's lead... "2006 Tool kit reduced to a single hex wrench and a piece of foam."

[TMH]

My experience on the Honda ST is limited to a couple of test rides, but that was all it took. The ST is a very nice bike, no doubt about that. And just think of the opportunities of places where it can be serviced!

 

But with that said, it was not for me. I did feel some heat through my pants & overpants, which I essentially never feel on my RT. The RT is more comfortable for my desired riding position, and I was pretty surprised at the vibes coming through the ST's bars between 5-5.5k rpms. Silky smooth? Not the ST's I have ridden. Other than that, the ST was just a little boring to me. Now I didn't flog the ST, and maybe I just didn't give it enough of a ride to understand its true beauty. But with the RT there was a beauty I found within 10 minutes of first sitting on it. So my choice was made, and I haven't found ANY reason to second guess it yet.

 

Tom

[Rocket_Cowboy]

 

The ST is a bit on the heavy side as compared to the RT, and I believe the RT has the greater load-carrying capacity of the two (you'd have to confirm that).

 

Confirmed, both accounts. The ST is a good bit heavier than the RT (over 100 pounds heavier), and while she wears her weight fairly well (the geometry of the bike combined with tire sizes), she's still a big girl. Parking lot manuvers can be a challenge, as she wears her weight pretty high. Because of her weight, she also doesn't allow you pack on as much as the RT would, which was also a problem for me.

 

And just think of the opportunities of places where it can be serviced!

 

Hmm ... that was one of the big reasons I sold my ST. Sure, there are Honda dealerships scattered all over, but Honda sells so few STs in the states, I had better luck getting my ST serviced by a BMW dealership than I did with Honda shops. Hell, most of the Honda places in/around the DFW area though my ST *WAS* a BMW.

 

BMW dealerships might well be spread out a great deal more, but at least you have a pretty good degree of confidence that the mechanic who's working on your bike has actually seen an R1200 motor before.

 

The ST was a great bike for what I was asking of it ... I loaded her up as a sporty tourer, and she carried me coast to coast several times in the 2 years I had her ... 38K miles worth. Had the two recalls done on her, though neither problem was apparent, and the only warranty issues I had with her was a coolant leak (up in the V of the motor...remove the radiator, airbox, and throttlebodies and you can get to those three hose clamps), sticky thermostat (again, remove the radiator), and drive flange bearing failure (happened in the initial 20K miles, but at least the radiator didn't have to come off). So long as I was jumping up on the Interstate and pounding down miles, she was great. Take her to the twisties set up that way, and her weight betrayed her.

 

Having switched to the RT, while my initial cost to get on the bike was more than the ST, I've spent far less getting her setup for distance riding. She also handles the twisties very well while being loaded up with luggage. If you don't mind the bear bones riding ... no heated gear, no cruise, no radio, no GPS, etc, then the ST might work as a solo bike for you. For the target market that the ST is going after, things like cruise, a decent windscreen, reasonable seat, power outlets, etc really should be included in that package. Otherwise it's as sparse as riding a VFR, just with different ergos.

 

Just my $0.02 worth.

[Eschelon1]

So what's wrong with the RT besides the looks?

 

[JohnBeaven]

 

What's wromg with the looks??

[bluejoeblue]

I am hooked on this forum! Wow, thanks for all the feedback. The ST has sparked my interest but it looks like there isn't enough there to get me away from my RT. I will check it out anyway. Thanks

[ScottT]

So what's wrong with the RT besides the looks?

 

I've had my RT now for almost two years and 34 thousand + miles and it still gets complements on it's looks from the riding and non-riding public alike. Personally I've always found the looks of the R1100 and R1150RT to be somewhat bulbous and bloated looking.

 

As for whether Joe should keep his RT... Yes. ST1300 is a good bike but it's got two issues that take it off my list of bikes to consider. Weight - too much of it. Heat - the ST1300 will roast you if it gets warm.

[Rocket_Cowboy]

Heat - the ST1300 will roast you if it gets warm.

 

The heat thing is either an individual rider or an individual bike thing as best I can tell. When I hung out on the ST websites, we couldn't find any good correlation ... there were owners in some of the hottest, most humid places who swore their bikes had no heat issues, and others who might live in Michigan and complain about how ungodly hot that bike was when the ambient temp rose above 80. Mine never gave me cause for concern regarding heat, and I rode it in temps ranging from 27 to 108.

 

But I'll still agree she's heavy, and that's reason enough to stay with the RT.

[zauberberg]

Joe,

 

Posting that question on this forum is a little like asking to be talked into keeping the RT. The real question is why do you think you need to be talked into it? Ask the ST forum, and you'll surface those reasons.

 

Anyways, the RT is the better bike.

 

 

Larry