R1200 RT Gearbox oil leak.

[HandyAndy]

OK, over the last few months I have noticed oil leaking from between the gearbox and engine. Not enough th drip on the garage floor but the bottom of the gearbox is always wet with oil and I can see ( and smell) that it does drip onto the Cat Converter ocasionally.

It is a very thick oil, definatly not engine oil so it must be the gearbox oil. One smell (and taste) and it is certainly gear oil!

I have not had any problems with the clutch slipping so I took the bike to the dealer to get it solved before any damage is done. At first look the service advisor agrees that it looks like the gearbox seal is leaking and that it will be fixed under warranty.

When I call tody to find out how the job is progressing they tell me that they have got all the parts (including a clutch just in case it has oil on it).

Then they tell me that BMW Canada will not authorize the warranty repair,the clutch has not started to slip so they think that the oil leak is not bad!

They have been instructed to clean the engine off and give the bike back to me!

 

I guess they think that I poured oil all over my engine/gearbox just so that they could split my bike in half for nothing?

 

So now I have to wait for the leak to destroy my clutch before the warranty will do anything!

No doubt that it will happen right during the best ridding weather, and possibly on the trip up to Radisson on the James Bay Highway!

I can get roadside assistance up there right?

 

Needless to say I am NOT IMPRESSED!

 

Andy.

[Rotor]

I'd be beside myself. You need to press this issue and impress upon them the potential for a roadside break-down. I've never heard of a dealer denying the repair of an obvious problem when the bike was still under warranty. I think you can get this done.

[HandyAndy]

The Dealer isn't the problem. They agree that it is leaking and want to fix it, or so they say.

It is BMW Canada that wont give them the OK to go ahead.

[Rotor]

In the back of my little mind, I knew when I typed the word "dealer" I should have been clearer. I realize it wasn't the dealer themselves causing the problem. Nonetheless, it appears you have a legitimate warranty issue and I believe you will have a successful resolution. Just be polite and persistent.

[Ken H.]

It is BMW Canada that wont give them the OK to go ahead.

Yikes! There must be some appeal / escalation process. Start dialing for answers I guess.

[PaulW42]

The gearbox seal is a standard problem. Certainly in the UK it is always a warranty fix (I've had mine done). Perhaps our US colleagues could comment on what happens there. I'm astonished that BMW Canada are not authorising a warranty repair.

[BucksTherapy]

Well, if BMW want the clutch to be oil soaked and slipping maybe you could find a way to accommodate them There is that inspection hole....

 

Seriously, someone didn't eat their Wheeties, Call them on a Friday afternoon just before quitting time, explain the situation and your fear it will break down at a time when it costs them more and could result in an accident under the wrong circumstances, loss of power on the 401. I would like to believe BMW are better then this.

 

Pls let us know how you make out.

[dyvking]

OK, over the last few months I have noticed oil leaking from between the gearbox and engine.

 

Andy.

Kinda like this; ?

 

That was on my R1200GS at around 6k miles. Fixed under (US) warranty. It was a faulty seal, and happened to many bikes.

[Geo]

I'd treat like a medical problem. Take it to a second mechanic who is trusted in the community. If he agrees with the BMW dealership and you don't, gather your evidence and go see your attorney, or file it in small clames court yourself. I would not waist my time dealing with another BMW dealer, they are going to tell you the same thing. Or you could just ride it until it breaks. If you do the later make sure your spouse knows about the problem and the location of the photos in case of a bad incident.

 

Geo

 

The wheels of justice grind exceedingly slow and ardious, yet exceedingly fine.

[nbooth]

I can't imagine getting a response like this from BMW. It's unconscionable --particularly since we've seen such a decline in the number of dealerships that would provide support in the event of a failure on the road.

 

Press the issue politely but firmly with BMW..if the seal it leaking, the seal has failed, and if the product is under warranty, BMW has a legal obligation to respect the terms of the warranty agreement.

[George]

One smell (and taste) and it is certainly gear oil!

 

Now that is commitment

[Ken H.]

Here's another thought... Write up an official looking document that basically says that the dealership and BMW Canada accept full liability for all damages incurred, up to and including a fatality, resulting from any incident caused by the oil leak. Take it to the dealer and demand that they fix the bike or sign the document. Send a certified copy to BMW Canada too. That will get their attention!

[JohnBeaven]

Here any oil leak would render the vehicle unroadworthy, therefore no matter how minor the leak would have to be fixed.

What build date is you bike?

Also, what does gearbox oil taste like? And, for comparison, what do other oils taste like?

[Eschelon1]

Try contacting BMW MOA. They have a consumer advocate that can help resolve issues like this. They might be able to put in a good word for you.

[smiller]

Also, what does gearbox oil taste like?

I'm gonna guess... bad.

[HandyAndy]

Also, what does gearbox oil taste like?

I'm gonna guess... bad.

 

Umm, well.... it tastes like.... oil!

 

It's not like I was drinking the stuff! just a little touch to the toung to see if it was sweet like a coolant leak. Seems that I forgot that the RT is AIR/OIL cooled!

 

Well just an update I talked to the salesman that I bought the bike from and he said that he would have a chat to see if they could persuade BMW to investigate more.

 

Unfortunatly they have not been able to get any give on the subject.

As far as BMW Canada is concerned the engine was cleaned off and they went for a test ride and when they returned they looked for signs of leakage again. As oil had not reapeared (yet) BMW Canada says that it does not warrent thier expense to take it apart as they feel that it is just minor seal seepage that is acceptable!

Of course I can have them tear it apart at my expense and if they find the seal is leaking excessivly then they will cover it under warranty!

It is this issue of acceptable seepage that concerns me with this option! To me, any oil leaking past a seal is excessive, but BMW dosen't seem to see it that way!

Just my luck they will say that it is not covered as it is not bad enough, and I will be stuck paying the bill! They tell me it is aprox 16 hrs labour to do the job!

 

So after having my bike for three weeks all they have done is wash my bike, run a diagnostic, and go for a joy ride to try and get the clutch to slip! Well they are going to replace the temp sensor as I have been complaning that the reading is low, and the diagnostic brought up a code for the sensor.

 

I guess BMW dosen't want it's customers to be avid enthusiasts that are in tune with thier vehicle and are concerned when the see problems arise. The fact that I look after my bike well and notice problems early is not in keeping with BMW's philosipy!

I guess they expect me to ride it till it destroys itself and then bring it in for them to repair!

 

It's too bad because I was enjoying my first BMW motorcycle untill this!

Well there was that EWS issue I had last summer! Humm, kinda went just like this issue!

 

OK, rant over!

 

For now.

[1analguy]

1) A coolant leak on your RT will taste exactly like engine oil!

 

2) A "common" oil leak on a non-Harley? NO WAY!

[George]

Remove the starter motor and spray a load of used gearbox oil in there, button it up run it up and try and ride it back to the dealer in a few weeks, and let them see it again MAD MAD, I would be fuming

[Pictou]

As a fellow Canuk I am not really pleased with the story you have to tell. I would have hopped they would to the right thing without prodding. I wouldn't give up just yet. I would at the very least send them a letter. It probably wouldn't hurt to mention that this is a well known problem and is fixed everywhere in the world under warranty with no questions asked. In the event you have to resort to legal measures for any reason stuff like this works in your favour. You might also consider reporting it Transport Canada as a potential safety flaw.

[FrankBrown]

"the engine was cleaned off and they went for a test ride and when they returned they looked for signs of leakage again. As oil had not reapeared (yet) BMW Canada says that it does not warrent thier expense to take it apart..."

 

Did the dealer top up the oil level before their test ride? Maybe there isn't any oil left in there or the level is low!!

[Dave Glen]

My November 2005 RT was diagnosed by the dealer to have a gearbox leak that I looked for and couldnt find and was fixed under warranty. All the best with yours.

Dave Glen

St Arnaud, Victoria, Australia

[Satguy]

PM Sent

[HandyAndy]

"the engine was cleaned off and they went for a test ride and when they returned they looked for signs of leakage again. As oil had not reapeared (yet) BMW Canada says that it does not warrent thier expense to take it apart..."

 

Did the dealer top up the oil level before their test ride? Maybe there isn't any oil left in there or the level is low!!

 

When I did the 30,000km maintenance I checked the gearbox oil level. To my surprise it was right at the proper level.

 

So not much has leaked out, I know a little oil leak looks like a lot when it is running down the motor.

Of course there is the chance that there was too much oil in there in the first place!

[Guv]

My '05 is in at the BMW dealer having the gearbox oil seal replaced under warranty, no arguments or problems. I had a leak exactly as you describe.

 

Only a small job!!!

Have a look.....

Paul

[keithb]

OK guys.

I can't say I am happy about reading this thread. When I changed the shocks out at our SoCal tech day in Jan. I noticed what appeared to be a small oil leak as well. After reading this thread and 2 months have gone by I went out and looked at the rear portion of the engine in front of the cat converter and the engine is definitely wet. It looks like it is almost ready to drop some on the floor and the fluid looks like the tranny fluid I put in the bike at the 12K service. A few weeks ago I suspected this while I was at the dealer and actually mentioned this to the service writer. She said to just bring the bike in to be checked out. It looks like I could be another casualty with a leaking seal.

[Puddick]

Just got my 06 RT back from 12,000 Service. I reported sometimes seeing a film of oil under the Bike when I was washing it, the Service manager told me when I picked it up there's a slight leak from the Gearbox, he asked me to sign for warranty work to allow them to fix it and the Bike's booked in for next Month. He also told me they've had a batch of these and they think it's due to too much grease being used on some Engine seals during assembly, causing the dust from the sintered clutch lining to stick to the grease forming an abrasive compound wearing away the Seal?

[keithb]

Here is a quick update on my bike. There is definitely more oil leaking vs. Jan. 07. The rear portion of the engine is quite a bit wetter than 2 months ago and I believe it to be the tranny after showing pictures to the mechanic this morning. On Monday it will be delivered to the dealer to be inspected and repaired. Not that I am excited about this repair but at least I followed up on the suspected leak after seeing this post so it will be taken care of now instead of during prime time riding season or Torrey. Thanks for bringing this to my attention again. I will do a follow-up post when the dust settles.

[HandyAndy]

so it will be taken care of now instead of during prime time riding season or Torrey.

 

Well that was exactly what I thought when I took it in!

 

After arguing with them for three weeks (they have had my bike for six weeks!) I have given up!

I need my bike back as I have to get ready if I am going to ElPaseo this spring!

 

After all the dust has settled nothing was done except cleaning off the bottom of the motor! And they did a poor job of that! As for the leak here is what my invoice says.

 

Well I guess I will just have to waite untill it soaks my clutch!

 

On a brighter note I have been on them about the temp display being 6 deg C too low!

They replaced the temp sender and did a bunch of diagnostics on it and what do you know, It is operating as designed also! I had them reprogram it to read in Deg F as that makes more sense to me. On the ride home from the dealer the temp was displaying 36 deg and dropped to 32 deg as I arrived home. I ran inside and checked my home weather station to find out that it was actually 45 deg F outside! So now it is out by 13 Deg F!

I have 4 different digital thermometers in my garage that normally read within 3 deg F of each other. I just ran out and checked all the readings they are as follows.

53.7 deg, 50.7 deg, 51.4 deg, 53.5 deg, and 38 deg.

Can you guess which one is on the bike? But of course as the invoice states it is working as per design.

 

Andy

[smiller]

The transmission leaks, but it is 'operating as designed'...

 

The temperature sensor is inaccurate, but it is 'operating as designed'...

 

Hmmm....

[keithb]

Oh man. I hope I have a different outcome with the tranny vs. your situation. The way I look at it I have 15 months of warranty left so in that time period I imagine BMW will have to fix it. I did not even mention the temp. gauge. Mine is way off and at this point I don't even care about it.

[HandyAndy]

OK finally BMW Canada has agreed that my oil leak is excessive, and they have authorized a warranty repair! And that was from them looking at pictures I sent them after my trip down to Deals Gap in April.

The only difference was that I had just covered over 4000km so the leak was very noticable as it was dripping off the bottom of the motor onto the Cat Converter.

 

I dropped the bike off on Sat and I am to have it back by the weekend, if all goes well.

 

Of course they had to wait untill the good riding weather to fix it, exactly what I was trying to avoid!

 

At least I was able to get a loaner bike, it's not exactly my usual style, but sure is nice to try something that I would not usually purchase.

 

Here it is.

 

 

Now if I can just figure out what to do with my helmet gloves when I get to work I will be ok.

 

Andy

[St0nkingByte]

The best part of that is the 'some weeping is considered acceptable'. Is that weeping from the bike, the customer or both?

[swilson]

At least I was able to get a loaner bike, it's not exactly my usual style, but sure is nice to try something that I would not usually purchase.

 

Wow, wish the dealer I used for service had loaners that nice!

 

Glad they've finally come around and are fixing your leak!

[Fran]

Posted last night with the same symptoms, was greeted with an immediate reply and a suggested course of action. Went to my dealer today, Wagner Motorsport International in Worcester, MA, they had a look and agreed it was a leak, booked me an appointment on the 13th, ordered the required parts, including a new clutch just in case so they would have what they need when I bring the bike in, no muss, no fuss. So far this has been my experience, all positive. I would also like to thank the board, its posters and readers who are always there to offer help, suggestions, ideas and moral support. Many thanks to all! thought it needed to be said.

Fran

[HandyAndy]

Well all is well with the RT again.

I took the bike in last week and they said that they would have it done by Thursday as I was going on a ride starting Friday evening.

Well they had a delay waiting for a new clutch plate so they did not finish the bike untill noon on Friday.

I did not have the time to run to the dealer in rush hour traffic, so to thier credit they delivered the bike to my work about 30km from the dealer!

All is working fine with no leaks after covering about 1500km over the weekend.

When I took the bike apart to reconnect my aux fuse box (the BMW mechanic tried but failed) I found that they forgot to reinstall the two fairing screws right next to the steering head under the tank rail. It's odd every time they work on the bike they leave these out!

I guess thats not bad as they did thier best to get it back to me ASAP.

 

Andy.