Shifting without clutch

[St_Louis_Don]

04 1150RT I’m getting a fairly good feel for engaging the clutch and smoothing out my up and down shifts. I’ve notice that with the correct match of bike and engine speed I can move up through the gears smoothly without using the clutch. And, provided I give the engine a blip, down through the gears as well.

 

Is there any harm in doing this?

[Paul Mihalka]

If there is no gear crunching, no harm done. I do it all the time.

[Boffin]

If there is no gear crunching, no harm done. I do it all the time.

 

+1

[Lineareagle]

Are you sure you are not confusing your Vespa with the RT?

[St_Louis_Don]

Are you sure you are not confusing your Vespa with the RT?

 

Every time I pull on the Vespa's clutch lever the rear wheel locks up

[T__]

04 1150RT I’m getting a fairly good feel for engaging the clutch and smoothing out my up and down shifts. I’ve notice that with the correct match of bike and engine speed I can move up through the gears smoothly without using the clutch. And, provided I give the engine a blip, down through the gears as well.

 

Is there any harm in doing this?

 

Don, no real damage UNLESS you miss the engine RPM road speed match up.. As long as you ALWAYS match the speeds exactly then the trans slider dogs carry little drive train load until you throttle back up.. But, if you miss the exact match up speed remember those trans dogs carry the driving load so it is real easy to round off the edges of the shifting dogs.. In any case it is still probably a good idea to use the clutch on downshifts..

 

Twisty

[Paul Mihalka]

What I like to do is to just put some pressure on the clutch lever, not really pulling it. Makes the clutch slip just a little like a friction damper and makes for real nice shifts.

[KDeline]

What I like to do is to just put some pressure on the clutch lever, not really pulling it. Makes the clutch slip just a little like a friction damper and makes for real nice shifts.

 

Your not hurting anything doing this? Seems like something would get torn up doing this all the time.

[Tony_K]

Nope no damage at all.

UNLESS you are not proficient at it.

A acquired skill learned over time and best left to less expensive machinery to gain that skill.

[WaywardSon]

Been doing it for years in everything from split-axle trucks to cars & bikes. Haven't torn anything up yet. On my RT it seems like if anything, it is smoother without the clutch.

[peterh]

I practice regularly at shifting w/o the clutch as a way to prepare for the day when something breaks and I cannot disengage the clutch.

 

It is my impression, too, that w/o the clutch shifting up is smoother. Does anyone know why?

 

peterh

[stubble!]

My only guess is that you're paying more attention to matching engine speed, so it's smoother. I find that to be true for me, anyway.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Main reason is a time thing. When you remove the clutch action from the equation, the input gears never get to slow down. The shift is accomplished during a no-load moment when you just back slightly off the throttle. There really is no "RPM matching" going on, at least for upshifts. When you use the clutch, the clutch disc has to be brought to the new speed as well and its momentum contributes to the jerk you feel. It doesn't have to be that way with an educated throttle hand. A boon to either style of shifting. For myself, I prefer to use the clutch, it's there anyway.

[T__]

I practice regularly at shifting w/o the clutch as a way to prepare for the day when something breaks and I cannot disengage the clutch.

 

It is my impression, too, that w/o the clutch shifting up is smoother. Does anyone know why?

 

peterh

 

Peterh, if your shifting is smoother without using the clutch then you are doing something different when using the clutch, probably a clutch to shift timing problem, or cycling the clutch lever too far or too slow therefore allowing too much engine RPM change during the shift sequence..

You can work on your de-clutching to shift timing & vastly improve your shift smoothness while using the clutch.. You might try pre-tensioning the shift lever slightly before actually pulling the clutch lever in.. Try cycling the clutch lever faster during the shift sequence & not pulling it in quite so far during the shift (seems to improve clutch to shifting timing, at least for me).. Maybe work on quickening up both the clutch apply/release speed & shift lever speed as that usually tightens the engine RPM road speed variation during the shift.. Also try working on the throttle position during the shift (ie. Not backing it off quite so far during the shift)..

With a little work you can get that bike to shift smooth as greased snail eggs while using the clutch..

 

Twisty

[mefly2]

Are you sure you are not confusing your Vespa with the RT?

 

Every time I pull on the Vespa's clutch lever the rear wheel locks up

 

LOL ... that's true for the Honda scooters as well ...

[Survived-til-now]

I think the advice you already have covers it all but just beware...

 

BMW advises that you use the clutch. Now it is undoubtedly faster when accelerating to do a clutchless change and it is useful to know how to do it - especially if you find someone coming up behind you too fast and need to get distance

 

BUT

 

I did a riding course where clutchless changes were all the rage and got quite good at it -- then my gearbox broke -

No connection? I'd like to think not but...............

 

Andy

[Paul Mihalka]

If there was no gear crunching and no extreme force on the gear shift lever, there was no damage from clutchless shifting.

[exwingnut]

A friend (who frequents this forum) is the only person I have ever ridden with that shifted his BMW w/o using the clutch...he is also the only person I know who has had 3 transmissions in his bike (just in the 4 years I have known him.)

 

Coincidence? Poor technique" Pure bad luck?

 

I don't know, but I use the clutch...no problems so far on 4 BMW's.

 

Your mileage may vary...

[KDeline]

That is my opinion also, I have had 4 bikes with over 120,000 miles and have NEVER replaced a clutch or transmission. Only clutch was a oil soaked one, on a low mile bike, none of the above.

[Ken H.]

Bottom line IMHO is that the clutch is there for a purpose, use it. Sure if you are perfect every shift you can get away without using it but why? These aren't drag-racing bikes we're riding here!

[UberXY]

I generally upshifted my airhead for 20 years without using a clutch unless I was riding hard. It still has the factory clutch and virgin gearbox.

 

I do it a lot on my R1150RT, once in a while on downshift. As may have been pointed out, it is important to adjust the throttle to minimize the stress on the drivetrain.

 

BTW, some years I ago I got in my '66 MG-B in central London for a drive to my home in Suffolk. Discovered quickly that I had no longer had a working clutch slave cylinder. Given that it was sunday, wet, and raining, I decided to press on regardless. I only used 2nd and 4th gear, and each time I had to come to a stop I would shift to neutral, coast with brakes to a stop, engage second gear while stopped, and then turn on the starter while in gear to get going. For as crappy and unreliable as Lucas starters and their mechanical solenoids were, they made a ton of torque when working correctly. I made it home no problem, even got pulled over by the cops for loud exhaust.