Uhhh, oil is a leaking....... and it looks like its from the head!

[cali_beemer]

Well, it was in the high 60's and sunny today, another great riding weather day here. I went out for a day ride and stopped to get gas before heading out. I noticed oil on my sidestand and I immediately knew that was not good. I looked closer and noticed oil on the fairing and what looks like a leak around the head gasket. Its not a huge leah like oil is running out but enough to head right back home and cancel what could have been an awesome ride. I went and bought a Clymer book on the 97 RT for all of the how to do stuff as well as a set of feeler gauges and a new torque wrench. I was talkig with a guy at the BMW shop and he said that I may just need to re torque the heads. The bike was running great, no problem at all, no noise either. I did notice an additional amount of heat coming from the side of the bike that had the leak but the temp gauge was normal and no dummy lights came on. Does anyone have any experience with this? Can I just retorque and potentially fix it? I guess its time to remove the fairing and all of that crap. Maybe I should just buy a zumo and mount it while I have the tupperware off. Maybe a good time to do a spline lube as well. The clutch has seemed like it isnt as responsive, how hard is it to pull the clutch as well while I have the tupperware off? The bike is a 97 and only has 14,000 miles on it. Well, atleast a new gasket is only 15 bucks. Any other things that I should be doing?

[Shawnee Bill]

First thing to try is re-torqueing the head bolts. Be sure you follow the order and get all the smaller bolts.

Slowed my leak to almost nothing for 3,000 miles but then it was back. I rode with a leak for 10,000 miles, only added oil once between regular oil changes.

 

Changing the head gasket is not too difficult, main thing is to tie the cam chain to the sprocket in about 3 places. It will stay put.

 

The sprocket bolt is TIGHT.

[Ken H.]

Just to be clear, are we talking about a valve cover leak, the outer most 'joint' point, or a head to block leak, one point inward?

 

If the former, the valve cover, it's easy. If the head gasket is indeed your leak point, well obviously more is involved.

 

ISFA your clutch question, it's a totally different, and much bigger 'game'. The transmission has to come out to do a spline loop.

[Eckhard Grohe]

Have you had the valve cover off recently? If yes, did you clean the gasket surfaces well when you put it back together. What about the center gasket, around the spigot there the spark plug goes through, was it properly placed and clean when you put it back on.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Or, one of the O-rings on the oil filler cap assembly.

Oil can migrate, under the combined forces of gravity and wind, around and make it seem like something else is leaking. Add oil lately?

[Clive Liddell]

I also say just take a deep breath and have a careful check exactly where it's coming from. IF it is the cylinder head gasket then it normally starts slowly weeping and possibly if left for a time it would start messing on the fairing etc as you describe. I have stopped cylinder head gasket weeps 3 or 4 times by just carefully re-torquing as per factory manual. If you're sure its the ch gasket then it can be re-torqued with all the fairings in place.

 

At that very low milage I doubt any of the other items you mention need attention...

[Ted]

My $$ is on the valve cover gasket.

[flars]

Number 1 and number 2 culprits:

Oil pressure sensor

'O-ring' around Spark plug hole (not really an o-ring. it's more of a thick, flattened donut washer thingee).

The oil pressure sensor screws into the side of the crankcase just in front of the left cylinder and has one wire coming off of it. You should be able to discount or confirm this as a problem instantly. It just screws in, so replacing it is super easy.

As noted above, if you (or anyone else) had the valve cover off, the sealing gasket/donut/o-ring thingee (BMW technical term) that seals around the spark plug is the most likely culprit, and leaking from there is very common, since all it takes to leak is a brief moments inattention when putting the valve cover on. The oil will get all over everything, and will be coming from the tunnel in the center of the head. Remove the valve cover, remove the donut and refit it properly, then put the valve cover back on. Be careful when tightening the valve cover bolts, because they can cause migraines if you booger them up. Leave your muscles at home when tightening these bolts. Snug will do fine.

[BUSTED]

If you re-torque the heads make sure to check your valve clearances before you button everything up afterwards.

[cali_beemer]

Thanks guys for all of the help. The bike has been running great except when I start it up I get alot of un burnt gas out the tailpipe. It seems excessive. It idles rough when I start up but when warm, it runs good. I have been debating on whether I should just re-torque the heads or if I should take my time and just go through everything on the bike, like the clutch, spline lube, change the tranny fluid, replace the clutch cable, the fuel filter etc... since I bought the bike used. Its at 14,000 miles and had the 12,000 mile service done at 13,000 miles bby the previous owner. Its suppose to be sunny and in the 70's this weekend so I may just retorque the heads and give that a try. It says in the clymer manual to disconnec the negative terminal of the battery but ya gotta take the tank off for that. Its not really neaded for retorquing a head is it? The leak definately seam to be coming from the head gasket. I am failry certain on that and I am familiar with the valve covers being the normal weak link as well as the oil cap o-ring. SO, any recomendations? Should I go all out and do everything in the name of regular maintanence or should I just re-torque? I have been planning on buying a zumo so I will have to take the tuperware off for that as well soon anyway.

[Ken H.]

If it ain't broke, why fix it? And the only thing that sounds broke is you have a leak. 14K miles is really low for these bikes, not even really broken in fully yet. (Seriously. The ring to cylinder wall seating doesn't fully finish until abut 20K.) Why tear a fully functional bike into 100 pieces for no reason?

 

Fix the leak, ride, enjoy.

[Tony_K]

If it ain't broke, why fix it? And the only thing that sounds broke is you have a leak. Why tear a fully functional bike into 100 pieces for no reason?

 

Fix the leak, ride, enjoy.

 

Logic. Often offered... not always well received.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Why would you even contemplate doing that level of stuff on a bike with 14K miles?

 

First off, clean all the external oil off and find the real source of the leak. I'm still betting valve cover gasket as the cylinder head gasket is MUCH further inboard than you think.

 

Re-torquing the cylinder head stud nuts is a once in a lifetime thing and should have been done at the 600 mile service. If you can confirm that it was done at a dealer, I wouldn't even look there.

 

If you're contemplating a spline lube as well you are looking at about 12-14 hours of work on top of all the other stuff and it ain't no walk in the park to do alone unless your shop is equipped with a hoist or some exposed beams you can use to help support the rear subframe.

 

The fluids should have been changed at the 12K. Pull the rocker boxes, adjust the valves, do a throttle body synch and go ride.

[cali_beemer]

Thanks guys, it makes sence. I guess that I get too wrapped up in seeing all of these posts on spline lubes and stuff that I was thinking of just doing everything all at once so I know that it has been done. I will do that tonight if I get a chance. I think that I still have some degreaser. I was concerned that if I wash with degreaser and rinse it with a hose that it could get into the motor. Anything to be concerned about? Any preventative steps to be taken? It seems like a apin to clean with the fairing still on.

[Tony_K]

Lots of smilies first off to set the happy mood.

 

If you are having a hard time figuring out how to wash the bike maybe letting someone else do the wrenching is in order.

 

Ending with smilies and waves

[Davis]

Take the fairing off.

 

This makes it even more likely that the leak you are seeing is the valve cover. You can't get anywhere close to seeing the cylinder head to cylinder joint with the fairing on. If it's not the valve cover, all the other likely leak sources, such as the oil pressure sender, aren't visible with the fairing on.

 

Pull the fairing, wash off the oil, pull the cover off the spark plug, start bike, find the leak.

 

Don't worry too much about washing with the fairing off. Avoid high pressure streams that could get past seals, but otherwise take some Simple Green and a garden hose and go to it.

[cali_beemer]

Lots of smilies first off to set the happy mood.

 

If you are having a hard time figuring out how to wash the bike maybe letting someone else do the wrenching is in order.

 

Ending with smilies and waves

 

I was only going off of someone mentioning doing it without removal of the fairing ealier in the post. I think that I am more than capable and qualified. It has seemed that many people have said to just re-torque and the benefit is to not have to remove the fairing. If I am going to spend the time removing the fairing then my question has been if I should just retorque at that point or spend the 15 bucks on a new gasket and replace. One guy has already mentioned that it cameback later after re-torquing. I dont want to have to pull plastics more than once. I have read through the entire proceedure in the claymer manual on replacing the head gasket and it doesnt look to be too trivial. Basically, is the re-torquing a reliable fix or is it a temp band aid?

[Tony_K]

I have read through the entire proceedure in the claymer manual on replacing the head gasket and it doesnt look to be too trivial. Basically, is the re-torquing a reliable fix or is it a temp band aid?

 

The point is you have still not made a qualified assessment of your "leak".

 

The valve cover is not the head. You may be over thinking the entire event

and some very helpful people have been trying to help you. Soon they may just stop.

 

It starts with you getting on your knees and looking at the bike yourself.

You have all the power.

The folks here are just your support team

when you actually need it.

[Jerry Johnston]

If it is the head gasket as it was with mine there are a couple of reasons to get it changed. One it's embarrassing to have a BMW that smoke when the oil drips onto the hot exhaust and the other it will only get worse with time and it creates a mess that's hard to get off you bike besides worrying on long trips about oil level. To me it's worth peace of mind to get it fixed.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

If I am going to spend the time removing the fairing then my question has been if I should just retorque at that point or spend the 15 bucks on a new gasket and replace.

 

If you do ultimately determine it's a leaky head gasket, the job is a bit more involved and expensive than that. IIRC the gasket is more like $40. Plus, you'll need to pull the exhaust header, which means you're probably going to need new header gaskets (on both heads, since it's a one-piece header). You'll have to pull the tank to access the O2 sensor connector so you can properly separate header and muffler. New crush washer for the cam chain tensioner too.

 

And before you do all that, you should make sure the leak isn't in fact the joint between cylinder and crankcase; if it is, you'll have to tear that open, clean it, and apply new RTV (and prolly new O-rings too).

 

In the scheme of things, tupperware removal isn't that big a deal. First, positively identify the source of the leak: valve-cover-to-head joint, head-to-cylinder joint, cylinder-to-crankcase joint. Part of this process may require tupperware removal anyway. If it's head-to-cyl or cyl-to-crankcase, it really is a lot easier to try retorquing than it is to replace a head gasket. Nothing risky, it's just that gasket replacement is an awful lot of work when a twist of the wrench might do the trick.

[motorbob]

Well said ! Do not ass-u-me !

[cali_beemer]

Thanks Joe, that was the response I was looking for to help me decide. Well, time to get greasy tonight.

[Shawnee Bill]

One guy has already mentioned that it cameback later after re-torquing. I dont want to have to pull plastics more than once. I have read through the entire proceedure in the claymer manual on replacing the head gasket and it doesnt look to be too trivial. Basically, is the re-torquing a reliable fix or is it a temp band aid?

 

That was me that said the leak returned. I also think I made some assumptions about the source of the leak. As has been mentioned you have an almost new bike, mine leaked after 70,000 miles. Just about everyone I have asked about retorquing told me it is rarely a permanent fix.

 

I am going to say that all of your problems are the result of that 13,000 mile tune up. I will also say odds are the source of your oil leak is the "square O-ring" around the spark plug, they are easy to let slip when installing the valve cover. Easy to get right also.

You need to check your valves and sync your throttle bodies, put the valve cover back on right and it will surprise me if all your problems don't go away. Also valves and sync are a lot easier than any of that other stuff you are wanting to do.

Find a tech day near you and take your bike, you will get high quality and friendly help, your bike will love you, and you will make some new friends.

[cali_beemer]

Thanks guys, well, I pulled the plastics and you can definately tell that it has been leaking. No doubt there, its on the the inside of the tupperware below the head. I washed it off and re-started the bike and let it run until it was warm, revved it up a few time to make sure that the pressure was high. No leak, nothing. Dry as a wistle. It has oil in it. I knew it wasnt a huge leak but I didnt know it was this slow. I took a picture of one area that didnt clean up so well. It was dark out in the driveway when cleaning. when I pulled it back in the garage I noticed that I could have cleaned a bit better. Anyway, it looks more like it really is the head gasket. It could be my cleaning but I did notice that the oil was heavily surrounding the head gasket area just from initial inspection. I think tommorow I will get a better brush for cleaning and re-clean the area, put the seat back on and ride around. I know that you shouldnt let them run too long stationary. Well, here is the picture.

[Bob_Minor]

After you clean it up sprinkle some talcum powder in the area of the leak, when you start it up the exact location of the leak should be obvious within a couple of minutes.

 

Keep in mind that earlier 1100's had a different head gasket design that was well known for it's propensity to leak. I used to have a '96 that had the old style, it too sprang a leak and a re-torque did nothing to stem the flow. I'm not sure when the factory changed over, it may have been mid '97. The new style gasket is a permanent fix and not that tough to replace if you're reasonably skilled and have access to good torque wrenches.

[cali_beemer]

After you clean it up sprinkle some talcum powder in the area of the leak, when you start it up the exact location of the leak should be obvious within a couple of minutes.

 

 

I cant say for certain on the head gasket but the dealer told me beofre that the throttle body design on 96 was different. i was changed in 97 and made better for holding adjustments. Not sure on all the details. Maybe I will call the beemer shop tommorow.

 

Keep in mind that earlier 1100's had a different head gasket design that was well known for it's propensity to leak. I used to have a '96 that had the old style, it too sprang a leak and a re-torque did nothing to stem the flow. I'm not sure when the factory changed over, it may have been mid '97. The new style gasket is a permanent fix and not that tough to replace if you're reasonably skilled and have access to good torque wrenches.

[Davis]

I cant say for certain on the head gasket but the dealer told me beofre that the throttle body design on 96 was different. i was changed in 97 and made better for holding adjustments. Not sure on all the details. Maybe I will call the beemer shop tommorow.

 

Yes, the older 1100's have a single cable with two shields. The cable and one sheath runs from the throttle handle to the right TB. The cable loops around the pulley on the right TB and then it and the second sheath continue over to connect to the left TB.

 

Starting in '97 there is a junction box under the tank and one cable goes from the throttle to the junction box. Then two cables run from the junction block to each TB.

 

I don't know if the newer design is really any better. I haven't had any trouble keeping them synced with the single cable. Also, based on the posts I've seen here, the junction boxes seem to gum up much quicker than the throttle cables wear.

[Blake]

After you clean it up sprinkle some talcum powder in the area of the leak, when you start it up the exact location of the leak should be obvious within a couple of minutes.

 

Keep in mind that earlier 1100's had a different head gasket design that was well known for it's propensity to leak. I used to have a '96 that had the old style, it too sprang a leak and a re-torque did nothing to stem the flow. I'm not sure when the factory changed over, it may have been mid '97. The new style gasket is a permanent fix and not that tough to replace if you're reasonably skilled and have access to good torque wrenches.

I had this exact problem back in November. The mechanic said it was the same thing - older gaskets. Even though only one side was leaking, I just had them replace both of them.

 

FWIW - If you take this project on yourself, make sure you retorque the bolts between 600 and 1,000 miles (their recommendation, not mine).

 

Good luck!

[Parrothead]

Cali,

 

I did the head gasket on my 96 a few weeks back. A couple things to keep in mind. Order seals for the area around the injector, especially the one up against the head, mine needed replacement. Your bike was sitting around alot and no telling about dry-rot. You may need exhaust seals as you will be pulling both sides of the exhaust, only a couple bucks. I also replaced the inner seal around the plug. Better to have this stuff on hand. The night before you do the work, spray down exhaust bolts so they have a chance to lossen a bit. Job is fairly straight forward, I was a bit nervous but with a little help from the board and a friend, it went well. No more leak. Another item, with all the tupperware off, I also replaced the vacume lines, after ten years, they were cracked in places I could not see.....about $4 and 5 minutes work. Good luck.

 

alan

[cali_beemer]

Well, I called the beemer shop and they confirmed that my 97 has an older gasket and its recomended to replace both head gaskets with the new design if experiencing problems. I think that I will replace the gasket on the left, should I do the right as well eventhough there is no problem, knowing it has the old gasket in there? I have always been for not fixing it until broken but I plan on doing some traveling soon on it and I dont want the right to go bad 2000 miles from home.

[Parrothead]

Cali,

 

I thought about doing both sides but did not. The right side was not leaking, so why temp fate. It may never leak! If it ain't broke, I won't fix. Too, doing one side now will give you the knowledge next time in.

[Bob_Minor]

I'd do them both. You'll go to a lot of effort to do one, the second will go much quicker. There are some tricks involved like using a zip tie to keep the cam gear attached to the chain (don't want to loose the valve timing), finding a suitable pin for locking the engine, and figuring out the 90 and 180 degree head bolt tightening sequence without a degree wheel. I did mine using both the factory manual and a Haynes, it's good to have both on hand. It's actually a fun job to do if you take your time.

[cali_beemer]

does anyone knwo of where I can purchase a degree wheel that works well with the head bolts on the boxers. I think it might be a good tool to have, while not absolutely needed. But if I am going to do both sides and then have to re-torque the heads at 600 miles then it might be a good tool to spend some money on. When you did it Bob, did you just eyeball it and approximate? I am assuming that worked out well. I have seen some for sale but they were very large.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

does anyone knwo of where I can purchase a degree wheel that works well with the head bolts on the boxers. I think it might be a good tool to have, while not absolutely needed. But if I am going to do both sides and then have to re-torque the heads at 600 miles then it might be a good tool to spend some money on. When you did it Bob, did you just eyeball it and approximate? I am assuming that worked out well. I have seen some for sale but they were very large.

 

I eyeballed mine; it's pretty easy to spot 90 degrees visually. Pulled heads at 45K and 60K, no probs yet at 115K.

[Bob_Minor]

I just made marks with a felt pen, 1 and half flats on a hex nut is 90 degrees. The degree wheel is really not needed.

[cali_beemer]

Well, I figured it shouldnt be too hard to eyeball 90 degress but figured if the tool wasnt too much, it might be nice knowing you were exact. I dont think I will bother getting a gauge. I went and ordered all new gaskets for both sides. I even got the TDC pin and some feeler gauges for adjusting the valves since it takes 2 at the same time. I only have a combo set of feeler gauges. I did a phone order from A&S BMW in Roseville, CA. Eventhough I live 15 minutes away I dont have time to drive by. These guys at A&S are awesome. Courtious and everything was in stock. They even went through a checklist to make sure that I had everything I needed to do this. A great place to get parts from. Just in case anyone wants to know, oilheads with a build date up to 08/97 have the bad gaskets to them, well atleast shall we say there is an improved gasket from stock. I will let everyone know how it goes when I am done. Thanks everyone for your help.

[Bob_Minor]

I thought the head gasket was changed in mid '97. How about that, my memory still has some capacity left.

 

The most important thing in this whole job is never rotate the engine while the cam gear is removed. If you loose the cam timing you'll need more expertise than most of us have to get it back. I'm very slow and cautious whenever I work on my bike, and I think I took two leisurely evenings to complete it. Have fun!