At the risk of starting another oil thread....

[NYTransplant]

OK, I've read many of the oil threads and understand what I might be starting here. I will be very specific. I have had two cars begin leaking oil when switching to Mobil1 later in life.

 

OK.. here it is...

 

Have any of you developed leaks by changing to synthetic oil with somewhere near 36k miles on the odo.

 

This should be easy right? Not a religious question. Very factual. No 20 page threads. Lord, please forgive me.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Nope, and what makes you think the cars wouldn't have leaked if you had continued with dino oil?

 

Were the leaks specifically seal failures or failed gaskets?

 

I actually have gone back to using dino oil in all my bikes, none of them leak, btw, or leaked when I was using the synthetic. It is just that I don't see any particular benefit to running the synthetic stuff. I change my oil regularly and recommended intervals and rarely subject my bikes to a combination of high heat and high load.

 

I use Shell Rotella T, 10w40 at $7.00 per gallon at my local NAPA store.

[kinchy]

Not leaks but certainly consumption. Had a well maintained high mileage Lexus SC400. Decided to change to synthetic at 85,000 miles. At 86,000 I was down a quart. This V8 never used a drop of oil. It wasn't leaking and I couldn't see any exhaust smoke. Switched back to Dino and it ran another 100,000 never using a drop between 3000 miles changes. Have used Amsoil in my new bikes and cars without any issues. Go figure

[redryder]

I've not had any dealing with car engines yet. But, around 1987, I switched to Mobil 1 in my '82 CB900. After that switch, an engine that never even had a seep, leaked like a sieve. Incredible. It never stopped leaking, so I eventually went back to Castrol GTX. {curtain falls, time passes}

 

Last year I switched to Mobil 1 in the RT with 42K. No leaks as of yet. I'm one of those weirdos that takes the shark fins off when doing the TB synch and I do have a small seep where the two shark fin bolts are in the front cover. After reinstalling the shark fin, the seep stops. I have noticed that after switching to synthetic, EVEN in cold weather, I don't have to use the fast idle lever hardly at all. Even with the temps in the low 40s, all I need is the lever in the detent position and the bike starts and runs very well. I also noticed that the old Honda didn't need nearly as much choke with the synth in it. Guess it has something to do with less friction or all the other blather that the synth guys tell us.

 

I'm happy enough with it, that this week, I'm changing to Mobil 1 in my TownCar with 65K on it.

[NYTransplant]

The leaks were too much of a coincidence to make me think anything other than the change to synthetic casued them.

 

As far as seals or gaskets, that I don't know for sure, but it looked like seal failures.

 

Thanks for the replies. I'm still not sure which way I should go. Perhaps I'll read another oil thread.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

How does a seal leak look different from a gasket leak? I'm not looking for a fight here, I'm curious.

 

I have been working on 'stuff' for well over 50 years now and when synthetic oils first became prominent on the market, there were some issues with seals leaking due to the better wicking action of the synthetics. Compounds were changed on both sides, oil and seal mfgs. The problem was put to bed about 30 years ago.

 

I'll be happy to bet at least a cold adult beverage that synthetic oil will not leak through a properly installed and functioning seal. Seals do wear though 36K is pretty early unless maybe the seal was subjected to some extraordinary conditions. Oddly enough, the one times I have seen this, it was on a medium life engine whose owner, after 5 years of neglect, decided to give his aging car a treat and put synthetic oil in it. Food for thought.

[Eckhard Grohe]

Use dino oil and the bike will out live you needs/ownership anyway. You probably won't extend your oil change intervals to get the equivalent return on your dollar. Bank the money saved and buy yourself some farkles or buy the wife some farkles or give it to some save the planet group to offset burning gasoline. Either way BMW designed the engines to use dino so if it good enough for BMW it should be good enough for us.

[steveg]

I had the same problem with the mobil 1 I was useing bmw synth. from about 12000 miles and never had to add oil until 4000 miles into the change then switched to mobil 1 and the bike started useing a half quart every 1000 miles. I went back to bmw synth. and the problem stopped. I switched to castrol gtx at 140000 miles and still not useing any oil, so far its been 2000 miles. I really dont see the advantage of the synth. oil at $7.00 a quart

[NYTransplant]

How does a seal leak look different from a gasket leak? I'm not looking for a fight here, I'm curious.

 

I have been working on 'stuff' for well over 50 years now and when synthetic oils first became prominent on the market, there were some issues with seals leaking due to the better wicking action of the synthetics. Compounds were changed on both sides, oil and seal mfgs. The problem was put to bed about 30 years ago.

 

I'll be happy to bet at least a cold adult beverage that synthetic oil will not leak through a properly installed and functioning seal. Seals do wear though 36K is pretty early unless maybe the seal was subjected to some extraordinary conditions. Oddly enough, the one times I have seen this, it was on a medium life engine whose owner, after 5 years of neglect, decided to give his aging car a treat and put synthetic oil in it. Food for thought.

 

No extraordinary conditions. A well taken care of Honda CRX with 60k which never leaked a drop began leaving puddles shortly after changing to synthetic. Granted, that was 15 years ago, and like you mentioned, this may no longer be an issue. I also had a non-leaking MR2 begin leaking at 98k after changing to synthetic. This was about 5 years ago. I can account for the history of the Honda since I owned it from new. If you would like to discount the MR2, that's fine since I bought it used and didn't know the full history.

 

The reason I would call it a seal leak is that on the MR2, not only did it leak on the floor, it puffed blue smoke upon startup indicating the failure of valve seals.

 

Whether it is a gasket leak or a seal leak makes no difference to me if it is leaking. The fact that it leaks is enough for me.

 

I have nothing against dino oil, in fact I planned on using it. After picking up some useful tidbits while reading the oil threads I began thinking about synthetic for the heat resistance on hot days here in SC. I still have a thousand miles to decide which way I want to go.

 

Thanks,

 

Tim

[ShovelStrokeEd]

I'll happily include the MR2, 98K miles? C'mon, I did say that seals wear and it is likely that not only the valve stem seals but the valve guides on the MR2 were shot. One of the characteristics of synthetic oils is their improved "cling" and the afore mentioned wicking action. Not surprised that they evidenced some sign of failure at 98K miles or even surprised at the puddle. Likely the seal in the timing chain cover or the front seal on the motor where the crank protrudes into the timing chest if it is a belt drive to the cam.

 

36K miles? Shouldn't happen if the motor was well maintained to begin with and built some time in the last 10 years or so.

[Quinn]

Here's where I get clobbered. Does anyone use an oil treatment such as Slick 50 or Duralube? All their claims seem to be ideal for a motorcycle engine--cooler, less friction, better gas mileage, etc.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Jeebus, I hope not. Nearly all of those claims are bogus. If BMW wanted you to use that stuff, they would have specified it. In fact, if any of it really worked, don't you think the auto manufacturers, who are under constant pressure from the EPA and other agencies, to reduce fleet average fuel consumption, would be using it?

[bross]

Jeebus, I hope not. Nearly all of those claims are bogus. If BMW wanted you to use that stuff, they would have specified it. In fact, if any of it really worked, don't you think the auto manufacturers, who are under constant pressure from the EPA and other agencies, to reduce fleet average fuel consumption, would be using it?

Not nearly, they are all bogus. Please do not ever put Slick 50 or any equivalent snake oil into any engine you care about.

 

Just google "slick 50 class action" or just "slick 50"

Slick 50 - Sketics

Snake Oil - Fred Rau

 

And on the oil subject, I prefer synthetics in my bikes. I use Amsoil. Synthetic is just better oil, but a name brand dino oil is also a very good oil nowadays and nothing wrong with it.

 

Funny thing though, I just use dino oil in all our 4 wheeled vehicles. If you follow the manufacturers recommended drain intervals, I could pretty much guarantee that none of us are going to encounter an oil related failure in our lifetimes.

[T__]

OK, I've read many of the oil threads and understand what I might be starting here. I will be very specific. I have had two cars begin leaking oil when switching to Mobil1 later in life.

 

 

OK.. here it is...

 

Have any of you developed leaks by changing to synthetic oil with somewhere near 36k miles on the odo.

 

This should be easy right? Not a religious question. Very factual. No 20 page threads. Lord, please forgive me.

 

NYTransplant, a few things to keep in mind when comparing synthetic oil to conventional Dino oil is: MOST modern synthetic engine oil is based on re-refined Dino oil & most conventional Dino motor oil contains many synthetic products.. As the years go by the difference between conventional Dino motor oil & synthetic motor oil is really starting to blur..

 

Basically "oil" is "oil" & the big difference in modern Dino vs synthetic is in the base oil stock molecule size variation, amount of undesirables in the oil, & premium additive packages..

 

Way back in the early days of synthetic oil development, synthetic oil was put together with some strange esters & lack of seal conditioners but MOST modern synthetic oil contains mostly Dino base stock & good quality seal conditioners.. The EARLY days of synthetic oil did have some seepage & burning problems but the newer modern quality synthetics are far & above the early synthetics & are not in the least prone to leakage or ring by-pass problems..

 

One thing you must keep in mind on modern synthetic motor oil is most are developed for use in newer automobiles so most is produced to meet the newer energy & fuel saving ratings of the modern automobile requirements.. If you do your homework on any of the oil's you are considering using you will find that most automobile type synthetics run to the low side of the viscosity scale for their viscosity range so would tend to leak out a little easier on older vehicles.. Also a good portion of the modern synthetics have a lower cold flowability number so that in itself could contribute to slightly higher oil burning or leakage..

 

If you pick the PROPER viscosity (both MEASURED hot viscosity & cold flowability) with equal seal conditioner packages there should be no more oil burning or oil leakage using a quality PAO or Dino based synthetic motor oil than a comparable conventional Dino only motor oil..

 

Twisty

[tomk99r11]

See, if you mention any of the following, you have started a thread:

 

Oil

Cannisterectomy

Tires

Tents

Sleeping bags

Synthetic vs Dino anything

Left Side Tire Wear

PTTR

Reflective Materials

After Market Exhausts

Getting More Power Out of An R1100

Dealer Service

etc, etc, etc

[RFW]

Have any of you developed leaks by changing to synthetic oil with somewhere near 36k miles on the odo.

Considering that almost all major "synthetics" on the market (including Mobil 1, now) are mainly formulated using high quality Group 3 or better Hydrocracked "Dino" based oils, and no longer contain much (if any) truly synthetic base stock, the question would appear to be rather irrelivant!

 

Some time back, Mobil sued Castrol, because they claimed (correctly) that Castrol's "Synthetic" was mainly made from Group 3 stock. Mobil lost the suit. The judgement was that, given the amount of chemical processing that even Dino-based Group 3 oils undergo, the word "Synthetic" became rather fuzzy. So it was judged that the word "Synthetic" referred to the perfomance of the oil, NOT the source of its base stock. Because of this ruling, and because of the large increases in proce of some truly synthetic base stocks, most oils now labelled as "synthetic" are now mostly based on high performace Dino based stock.

 

But in any event, the old wives tale that a synthetic oil (whatever "synthetic" has come to mean) leaks out of places where Dino oils cannot, is rather baseless.

[RFW]

Here's where I get clobbered. Does anyone use an oil treatment such as Slick 50 or Duralube? All their claims seem to be ideal for a motorcycle engine--cooler, less friction, better gas mileage, etc.

Dupont (the manufacturer of the Teflon used in Slick 50) has publicly stated that teflon has no value as a compent of engine oil. They even tried to stop selling the stuff to the comany that makes Slick 50. Slick 50 sued Dupont for infringement of trade, and won. So Dupont has no choice but to sell Teflon to them, but still maintains that it is useless as a motor oil additive, and in fact can do significant damage.

 

You don't suppose there's a message in all this, do you?

[scout6]

YEP,

Got 4 bikes. When we put synthetic in one of them it blows past a seal and drools all over. Had to park with the Harleys. Run dino, no spurt. Not so much an issue on 2 of the other bikes. The last states NOT to use synthetic, so we don't.