2005 R1200RT - another broken windshield support arm

[tgrrdr]

I searched the archives and found a few other threads [ 1, 2, 3 ] on this topic, but thought I'd share my experience anyhow. My bike has 27,000 miles, mostly commute miles logged by the PO and me. For the last couple months I've been using a CeeBailey's windscreen (big improvement over stock, buffeting and wind noise virtually gone) for my commute 2 or 3 days a week, 75 miles one way. Earlier today I was washing my bike and noticed the left side windshield support arm was broken.

 

In the past others have speculated that these fractures are caused by excessive wind load due to a larger after market windscreen. My theory is that it's a fatigue crack due the shield vibrating (rattling) as you ride down the road. The larger CB windscreen is also heavier and might cause failure sooner than with the stock screen but I don't think increased wind load is the main cause. I thought CB screens were supposed to be thicker than stock, which would make it even heavier but mine seem to be about the same thickness. Any one have any comments?

 

I'm planning to visit my (not so) local dealer on Tuesday to see what they say and buy another support if they're in stock. For now I zip-tied the arm in place and will be careful not to adjust the screen position until it's replaced (or maybe I'll just get some JBWeld and stick it back together ).

 

 

 

[Pictou]

You may be right about it being due to vibration. However I have not yet heard of any failures with the stock screen. That doesn't mean it hasn't happened of course. I understand that BMW has replaced some under warranty. Perhaps they will get the message and redesign the part.

[Boffin]

You may be right about it being due to vibration. However I have not yet heard of any failures with the stock screen. That doesn't mean it hasn't happened of course. I understand that BMW has replaced some under warranty. Perhaps they will get the message and redesign the part.

 

I doubt that BMW will redesign the part if the stock screen does not have the issue. Why should BMW take on that cost to permit the use of a competitors parts?

Even if they did - how do you design a part to take an undefined addtional load? Or do you also expect BMW to carry out instrumented tests with all the after-market screens available?

 

In my opinion, it is up to the aftermarket manufacturers to provide the stronger hardware, not BMW.

 

Andy

[Highway41]

My RT has the Aeroflow so I'm waiting for the supports to break.

Not a metallurgist but that dark spot in the break sure looks like an occlusion in the casting causing a weak spot. At least, that would be my story for the shop foreman.

See ya. Bill

[tom collins]

another possible issue to watch for with heavier aftermarket shields is the windscreen motor. i have a fairly large and heavy cb on my 04 rt. it is much bigger than stock. i burnt out a motor around 18,000 miles. i can't really say why and neither could the shop, but they did change it under warranty. they suggested and i try to and i now avoid adjusting it to a higher setting at anything over 30 mph. if i have to do so, i usually look for a place where i can assist the motor with my clutch hand. there is a lot of force coming down on that piece of plastic. haven't had your issue yet, but the design is probably different.

best of luck

 

tom collins

[keithb]

I have a C.B. Euro Cut +1H, +2W. Both of my support arms have broken and both have been replaced under warranty. The first one broke in August '06 and the second one broke in Jan. '07. I showed the broken part to a machinist and he said BMW was using cheap pot metal for this part. I could definitely see vibration breaking this part. Based on the picture of your part my support arms broke in the same place so it is consistent where the breakage is occurring. I was going to have two aftermarket parts made but the machinist said he did not have the equipment to make the part. ARGH!

[Albert]

Bill,

Something else to check. It appears in your second picture that the rubber bumper that the windshield rests on in its lowest position is missing. I mention this because I had one disappear and the other one was split and ready to fall off. I've since replaced both with simple stick on bumbers like you'd find on kitchen cabinet doors. My point is, if your's are missing you could be getting an excess of hard part contact when the shield is fully retracted, or nearly so. That would accelerate any fatigue problems a great deal. Again I'm not sure from your picture but it may be worth having a look. When mine went missing I got a considerable rattle at certain speeds. Good luck.

[ScottT]

In my opinion, it is up to the aftermarket manufacturers to provide the stronger hardware, not BMW.

Technically you're right Andy, but BMW surely knows how much it's customer like to change things like windshields on their bikes. BMW should have over engineered the supports or at the very least provided warnings that changing the stock shield may cause problems. There is no such warning in the owners manual. I thnk you're right about the aftermarket manufacturers being responsible too. They should've tested their product on the bikes more extensively before selling, then they would've know the support arms need to be beefed up. I guess the lesson here is buyer beware.

[marcopolo]

It seems like the only shield that has not been mentioned in the same breath as broken support arms is the ZTechnik. Is that correct?

[MrBee]

This kind of failure is a manufacturing issue and not a design issue. Certainly a larger screen will result in an earlier failure. I do hope this information gets reported back to the manufacurer.

 

MrBee

[jakfrost]

I was thinking the same thing Mark. My Ztechik has been on the bike for 11,500kms and no problems. I think it is designed with more sophistication than the 'brute force' competetion. It move the air 'around' the rider rather than simply shoving it aside...

 

Pobably 'God will get me' for that and the first trip out this spring will result in a broken bit... .

 

Jim

[Tommy_Boy]

It seems like the only shield that has not been mentioned in the same breath as broken support arms is the ZTechnik. Is that correct?

 

No problems with my Ztechnik Vstream. Only about 4000 miles on it, but so far, so good.

 

Just a comment for those who expect BMW to address this issue. If a person was to buy over-sized tires and wheels for his/her truck, and then breaks an axle, is it reasonable to expect Ford/Chevy/whoever to plan for this and upgrade ALL axles accordingly? At an increased cost to all customers? For the actions of maybe 5% of their customers?

 

Just stirrin' the pot...

[Lawman]

It seems like the only shield that has not been mentioned in the same breath as broken support arms is the ZTechnik. Is that correct?

 

No problems with my Ztechnik Vstream. Only about 4000 miles on it, but so far, so good.

 

Just a comment for those who expect BMW to address this issue. If a person was to buy over-sized tires and wheels for his/her truck, and then breaks an axle, is it reasonable to expect Ford/Chevy/whoever to plan for this and upgrade ALL axles accordingly? At an increased cost to all customers? For the actions of maybe 5% of their customers?

 

Just stirrin' the pot...

 

All of this discussion of who is responsible for this seems pointless to me..It's either in BMW's best interest to address the problem or it's not..simple as that..

[CopsRT]

Just wait and see how the arms are around the 15,000 to 20,000 mile mark. The failures have been showing up after 10,000 to 15,000 MILES!!! of use.

[Tommy_Boy]

If (or when) they fail, I'll replace them. My personal choice to use an aftermarket windshield - my personal responsibility to pay the price.

[Albert]

All of this discussion of who is responsible for this seems pointless to me..It's either in BMW's best interest to address the problem or it's not..simple as that..

 

I agree. Are BMW responsible for making parts that hold up to increased aftermarket demands? Probably not. Is it in their best interest to improve what is probably a $2 part in the interest of their PR? Probably. The mere fact that there's a discussion of this length on the internet would seem to make this a good descision. I doubt we'll see any campaigns to upgrade the existing brackets but I could very well see them adopting improved materials and/or design in their own interest.

[RoadJunkie]

I have a Cee Baily +1,+2 and no failure...yet. But what are we really talking about-$- for replacement cost of the strut?

[ScottT]

It seems like the only shield that has not been mentioned in the same breath as broken support arms is the ZTechnik. Is that correct?

I've no idea Mark. I have 30+k behind the stock shield and have no intention of changing it.

[tgrrdr]

It appears in your second picture that the rubber bumper that the windshield rests on in its lowest position is missing.

 

hmmm... no rubber bumpers to be seen on my bike. I didn't specifically look but I din't notice any on my brothers 06 RT either. I think I have some small stick on pads somewhere and I'll give those a try.

[tgrrdr]

The failures have been showing up after 10,000 to 15,000 MILES!!! of use.

 

My bike had just over 27,000 miles when I noticed the broken arm. I've only had the CB windscreen on for the last 2 months/1,500 - 2,000 miles. That doesn't really give me a real good feeling about the support arms.

 

If (or when) they fail, I'll replace them. My personal choice to use an aftermarket windshield - my personal responsibility to pay the price.

 

That was my thinking too - even though I'd never heard of anything like this on other BMW models and don't think the arms should fail even with an aftermarket screen I was ready to pay a replacement today. He didn't know anything about warranty coverage and suggested I talk to the service manager. She came out and looked at my bike, checked my warranty status on the computer and said she'd cover it. Hopefully the replacement will come in this week and they'll be able to do the work next week (and if the other arm breaks it will happen before the wararanty runs out).

[tgrrdr]

But what are we really talking about-$- for replacement cost of the strut?

 

According to the parts guy they cost about $65 (and there were 13 of the left ones in the country). I think I read a post in another thread where someone got one for $62 from A+S but I'm not sure.

[graemer57]

Maybe its a cultural thing and people view things differently on opposite sides of the Atlantic but I fail to see what the problem is.

 

A manufacturer cannot possibly be expected to foresee and legislate for all possibilities when they are designing a product. The best they can do is set their own parameters and make sure everything performs satisfactorily within that framework. And BMW seem to be getting that right so far, as I haven't heard any reports of arm failure with the original screen

 

It is hardly fair, however, to expect them to pick up the tab if you fit an aftermarket screen that, by the very essence of its design, is outside of the design envelope of the original screen and therefore MUST put more pressure on the arms. SO WHAT if many owners replace the screen, thats hardly BMWs fault!!!...and they can't be expected to have a screen that suits everyone, that's just not possible.

 

For what it's worth. I have fitted a Ztech which gives me, at 6'1", better protection than the stock screen.. in the full knowledge that the arms might fail. And if they do? Well I won't refit the old screen and go back to my dealer and try to con then into replacing them for free, I'll buy some new ones. Why? Because it was MY decision to replace the screen, and I take responsibility for it. It's as simple as that really, when you actually come to think abut it.

 

Sorry for the rant, but sometimes I get a bit fed up of it always having to be someone elses fault.

[marcopolo]

Maybe its a cultural thing and people view things differently on opposite sides of the Atlantic but I fail to see what the problem is.

 

A manufacturer cannot possibly be expected to foresee and legislate for all possibilities when they are designing a product. The best they can do is set their own parameters and make sure everything performs satisfactorily within that framework. And BMW seem to be getting that right so far, as I haven't heard any reports of arm failure with the original screen

 

It is hardly fair, however, to expect them to pick up the tab if you fit an aftermarket screen that, by the very essence of its design, is outside of the design envelope of the original screen and therefore MUST put more pressure on the arms. SO WHAT if many owners replace the screen, thats hardly BMWs fault!!!...and they can't be expected to have a screen that suits everyone, that's just not possible.

 

For what it's worth. I have fitted a Ztech which gives me, at 6'1", better protection than the stock screen.. in the full knowledge that the arms might fail. And if they do? Well I won't refit the old screen and go back to my dealer and try to con then into replacing them for free, I'll buy some new ones. Why? Because it was MY decision to replace the screen, and I take responsibility for it. It's as simple as that really, when you actually come to think abut it.

 

Sorry for the rant, but sometimes I get a bit fed up of it always having to be someone elses fault.

 

I agree, but then I havn't changed my screen, nor do I see any reason to do so. Works for me.

[Ken H.]

I fail to see what the problem is

I'm with you. Modify a product in an unapproved manner, then blame the manufacture of the product when it fails! It's absurd.

 

"Blame-shifting" pure and simple. (But then everything is someone else's fault these days isn't it?)

[Heywood]

I'm happy with the stock screen. I suspect the increased weight and resultant harsh shaking of the replacement screens might be more to blame for the failures than is the increased wind loads from the larger barn doors. After all, the top arm is more likely being subjected to increased wind pressure pushing AGAINST the arm. I doubt that would result in the failures seen. On the other hand, the lower arm is subjected to stretching forces rather than compression, that would be the area where you'd expect to see thise type of failures if it were strictly a wind load problem. Of course this observation is worth what you've paid for it.

[velomoto]

I fail to see what the problem is

I'm with you. Modify a product in an unapproved manner, then blame the manufacture of the product when it fails! It's absurd.

 

"Blame-shifting" pure and simple. (But then everything is someone else's fault these days isn't it?)

 

Not sure I'd call this blame shifting - IMHO when designing the RT BMW should recognize that a significant number of customers will replace the small windscreen with something larger. If the w/s arms were my design, I'd certainly have put in a lot of engineering margin. Perhaps BMW did design in margin but the failing arms are from a bad batch of parts from one of their suppliers. Perhaps there wasn't enough margin or maybe the wrong type of metal was used for this application (not sure what "pot metal" is, but aluminum will always fatigue fail in time - quickly if not designed/used properly). Sadly sometimes engineers do make mistakes and this could be one example.

 

I would feel more comfortable if BMW understood why the arms are failing and would put out a bulletin - even if the message was as simple as to say the RT wasn't designed for use with large windshields. At least this would let us all know of a potential problem and I would expect we would soon find aftermarket sources for higher strength arms. As things stand right now, there could be a defect in the arms which will affect bikes with the stock w/s several years from now - or the failures we're seeing are isolated cases of a defective (improperly manufactured) part that only fails with the additional load of a large w/s.

[CraCol]

Just wait and see how the arms are around the 15,000 to 20,000 mile mark. The failures have been showing up after 10,000 to 15,000 MILES!!! of use.

 

I have 48,ooo miles on an R12RT running a tall aeroflow... They haven't failed yet.. I'm sure how much angle the rider runs on the screen could have a bearing on the load to the arms..

 

As an aside, I had an '02 R1150RS. On that bike, it blew apart 2 sets of the moveable support bracket with larger (C-Bailey) screens.. I finally just went to a fixed screen on that bike..

 

Craig

[Tommy_Boy]

Maybe its a cultural thing and people view things differently on opposite sides of the Atlantic but I fail to see what the problem is.

 

A manufacturer cannot possibly be expected to foresee and legislate for all possibilities when they are designing a product. The best they can do is set their own parameters and make sure everything performs satisfactorily within that framework. And BMW seem to be getting that right so far, as I haven't heard any reports of arm failure with the original screen

 

It is hardly fair, however, to expect them to pick up the tab if you fit an aftermarket screen that, by the very essence of its design, is outside of the design envelope of the original screen and therefore MUST put more pressure on the arms. SO WHAT if many owners replace the screen, thats hardly BMWs fault!!!...and they can't be expected to have a screen that suits everyone, that's just not possible.

 

For what it's worth. I have fitted a Ztech which gives me, at 6'1", better protection than the stock screen.. in the full knowledge that the arms might fail. And if they do? Well I won't refit the old screen and go back to my dealer and try to con then into replacing them for free, I'll buy some new ones. Why? Because it was MY decision to replace the screen, and I take responsibility for it. It's as simple as that really, when you actually come to think abut it.

 

Sorry for the rant, but sometimes I get a bit fed up of it always having to be someone elses fault.

 

++++1

[wsearl]

I accept the responsibility as well, if I have a support arm failure as a result of using a non standard screen - but the bottom line is how can I assure myself that a failure will not occur i.e. can BMW or some other party be persuaded to make a stronger component? - It may be in the interests of one of the aftermarket screen manufacturers to commission an engineering company to make a stronger part, or is the market too small to hope that this might happen? I hope that someone can come up with a solution.

[LuckyLeif]

From my perspective of 30 yrs buying German cars & bikes, I would suspect that they couldn't care a whit if someone installs a nonstock item on the bike and suffers a resultant part failure. BMW engineers design a part to fit particular use parameters, and I doubt they intentionally design nonconsumable parts with an expectation that customers will replace. That some of us replace stock components with custom repelacement parts is entirely our choice, and we bear the risk that entails. I think there may even be a statement to that effect buried in the owners manual. Now, Harleys are a different story - have you ever seen the HD customization catalog?

[Ken H.]

how can I assure myself that a failure will not occur

There are a couple of people exploring making a machined steel replacement part for the factory cast one. Seems like it will be popular when someone gets it out.

[velomoto]

Seems like it will be popular when someone gets it out.

 

That is, after they get over the price!

[Tapatio]

Here's a cheap solution.

 

[Mike]

I fail to see what the problem is

I'm with you. Modify a product in an unapproved manner, then blame the manufacture of the product when it fails! It's absurd.

 

"Blame-shifting" pure and simple. (But then everything is someone else's fault these days isn't it?)

 

All of the failures reported on this website (at least those I've found) involved aftermarket screens. It does appear that this could be the cause, though the construction of the arms is also apparently fairly marginal.

[JayW]

...and BMW can't be expected to have a screen that suits everyone, that's just not possible.

 

And even if they did, many buyers would still replace the screen with something aftermarket. It is just the natural impulse for many to find something to change on his/her new bike, and windshields are easy and relatively inexpensive to change out. I agree that BMW should not have to pay for supports that break in these circumstances, though they may choose to do it optionally as a good will gesture.

 

Jay

[1analguy]

After seeing all the posts on this problem over time, until a superior part surfaces, I'd be tempted to try having a pair of stock replacement arms kryo-treated and see how they hold up...

[tgrrdr]

quick update: the dealer replaced the support arm under warranty. The service manager obviously thought it was a warranty issue or she wouldn't have replaced it with no charge. I guess that's really the only person who's opinion matters, but some of the previous posts bother me. I'm not sure where the posters got the idea that asking the dealer to replace the broken part under warranty was "blame shifting", failure to take responsibility or somehow trying to con the dealer out of a new part for free. As I stated in my original post I intended to buy a replacement support, but based on the prior experience of several board members I thought it wouldn't hurt to ask about warranty replacement. Doing so saved me $65 plus labor (either a charge from the dealer or my time), if you think you should pay for a broken support arm, by all means feel free to do so.

 

I still don't think those arms should fail with only a slightly larger screen fitted - the fact that they did leads me to believe it's only a matter of time/miles until they start to fail on bikes with stock screens.

[loujack]

...the fact that they did leads me to believe it's only a matter of time/miles until they start to fail on bikes with stock screens.

 

Bite your tongue...

[velomoto]

...but some of the previous posts bother me. I'm not sure where the posters got the idea that asking the dealer to replace the broken part under warranty was "blame shifting", failure to take responsibility or somehow trying to con the dealer out of a new part for free.

Ahhh, just a sign of the times.

 

I still don't think those arms should fail with only a slightly larger screen fitted - the fact that they did leads me to believe it's only a matter of time/miles until they start to fail on bikes with stock screens.

If these arms are made with an alumiunum alloy this certainly will show up on other RT's as the arms go thru more stress cycles. Larger w/s, higher speeds and stronger head/cross winds will all accellerate failure of the arms. Hopefully the problem being reported is just a manufacturing defect and not a design problem.

[tom collins]

my personal opinion is that it is never wrong to try to get something repaired under warranty - you paid enough for the bike. if it is not covered - they will tell you soon enough. the fact is that there are many discretionary items that could go either way, so might as well ask. a side benefit is that it there are enough of these arms repaired under warr. on bmw's dime, they might make a change (we can always hope).

 

tom collins

[moshe_levy]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is that the Aeroflow screen (huge) comes with some plastic bracketry that installs between the control arm and the shield, greatly reducing the stress on the pot metal control arm. To my knowledge, it's the only oversized shield that comes with such hardware.

 

I've put 20k on the bike since I bought it in July 2006, all high speed highway commuting, and hadn't had any problems until recently.

 

Commuting in sub-freezing temps, the Aeroflow's plastic brackets cracked from the stress, and as soon as they cracked, the shield itself (now resting on the control arm like all other shields) cracked as well. The shield is now a lost cause, cracked almost all the way across.

 

A new Z-technic is in my garage, waiting to take the Aeroflow's place. Though the Aeroflow was very effective, the raves I've seen about the Z-technic, coupled with its 30% lower price, made me curious enough to try one out.

 

-MKL

[CraCol]

I have 48,ooo miles on an R12RT running a tall aeroflow... They haven't failed yet..

 

Well, I have to eat my words here...;-( Last week traveling trough a line of thunderstorms, the left support arm broke.. After rigging it up to support the load, a day later the right arm broke as well.. Both failed right at the base of the eyelet, at the top of the arm.. I'm running an Aeroflow medium shield.. Has anyone gotten replacements (out of warranty) from BMW? Has anyone come up with an aftermarket replacement arm?

 

Ride Safe!

 

TinMan..

[CopsRT]

I'm still working on having a machine shop make some replacements for me. They should be out of a solid piece of metal and heavier in the week area that is breaking on everyones. Once a prototype is made and I have tested it for fit and have a unit price for a set, I will post the information for any one interested. It looks like the shop will be willing to take and fill orders from anyone interested.

[ADulay]

I'm still working on having a machine shop make some replacements for me. They should be out of a solid piece of metal and heavier in the week area that is breaking on everyones. Once a prototype is made and I have tested it for fit and have a unit price for a set, I will post the information for any one interested. It looks like the shop will be willing to take and fill orders from anyone interested.

Heck, I'll probably order a set just to have them in the garage for when the stockers finally do break!!

 

AD