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white reflective tape on saddlebags, pro-con


barncobob

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have a 04 rt, it is all black and my gear is black except for white helmet. i rarely ride at night but am concerned about blending in with the asphalt during the day. anyone using the white reflective tape on bags. they offer rear only and side/front

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I use it. My son has been behind me and says I light up like a semi.

I don't see any cons.

Buy it. (The stuff I have is black so it is not noticeable during the day. I think it came from cycle gadgets.)

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If you want to be seen at night, and keep everything black in appearance, use the type that appears black until illuminated at night. Much more subtle than white/red type, but works nearly as well. Was on some used lids I bought, and it really shows up nicely. A lot of places sell it.

 

However, on the rear of you bike, you really might consider red…

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I have the "black" kind that reflects white on my '04 RT. Look at your tail end from a distance with only the taillight on. Then install the reflective tape and look at it with headlights shining on it. World of difference. Next best thing to a bunch of auxilary lighting added.

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Here's a flash photo taken in my garage in daylight. The garage door was open and the rear of the bike is toward the door. Without the flash, you would not notice the reflective material. cool.gif

808098-ReflectorTape.jpg.4e6b97123fff487707101395d1d62ec6.jpg

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I bought black reflective tape at an auto parts store. Great stuff per the guys who have ridden behind me, and it is inconspicuous in the light.Think it was $3 or so for a 3 ft roll.

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I've also got a black bike. The photo below shows my white reflective tape, which I placed not on the bags, but on a metal plate I attached below the license plate, to enhance visibility both day and night. The plate screws onto the rear fender plastic, so that it can be removed without a trace.

764492-reflector-day.jpg

 

More reflective tape ideas on this thread.

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If you want to be seen at night, and keep everything black in appearance, use the type that appears black until illuminated at night. Much more subtle than white/red type, but works nearly as well. Was on some used lids I bought, and it really shows up nicely. A lot of places sell it.

 

However, on the rear of you bike, you really might consider red…

 

Hi. I have not seen any reflective stickers that are black, but reflect red. I would prefer that for the rear, as you suggested, instead of the ones I have now that reflect white. Where can I find these? TIA.

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have a 04 rt, it is all black and my gear is black except for white helmet. i rarely ride at night but am concerned about blending in with the asphalt during the day. anyone using the white reflective tape on bags. they offer rear only and side/front

 

Kathy and I have reflective tape on both our bikes.....I like visibility....

 

Check out Fernando's site......Support our own...

 

http://www.motoequip.com/

 

Phil.........Redbrick

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In some states, including Michigan, any reflectors or lights on the back (except for turn signals which can be amber) have to be red. White is not legal on the back. I don't know if anyone would bother you, but you might want to check to see if its legal to use white reflectors where you live.

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I think adding reflective material to increase conspicuity during the day is very worthwhile.

 

I was riding behind a woman on a HD a couple of weeks ago... through dappled shade in contrasty light. She virtually disappeared in the lighting.

 

She had on black leathers and a black helmet, on her black bike. White would have helped... hi vis yellow or lime would have made her visible.

 

Please keep in mind that I'm admittedly at one of the far ends of the conspicuity fringe.

 

Personally, I don't see the great value of black retroreflective tape. I know I'm in the minority, but in my opinion, it's putting fashion before functionality.

 

For me, using white or SOLAS tape instead of the black retro tape gives two benefits:

1 - Visible during the day

2 - Much more visible at night, and from a greater distance

 

I have lots of reflective material and extra lighting on my bike, visible day or night.

248364.jpg

 

I also have a helmet mounted brakelight and wear a VisionVest with yellow highly retroreflective stripes.

helmetlight4_small.jpg

 

bsback.jpg

 

No, that's not me in the photo...

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+1 to Alanz's comments. In Dallas traffic (and loony drivers eek.gif) I want to be as visible as possible during the day AND night...looks be damned. I want have at least SOME chance of being spotted by the brain dead soccer mom/dad yakking on their cell phone while turning around to scold their kids and merging into my lane at 75 mph!! bncry.gif

 

Of course, my attitude of "function over form" might explain why I currently ride a GS rather than an RT. lmao.gif )

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The black by day white by night reflective material all of you guys are describing is 3M Scotchlite Plus 680 series reflective sheeting. You can go to a local sign shop and buy the stuff by the foot. You then make a template and then cut out the shape and stick it on your bike. It is quite inexpensive this way or you can go and buy a kit for about $35. I bought some extra bag lids and did not need the whole kit so buying it and cutting it myself was the way to go.

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Check with the state DOT on line. I believe in California and Texas, as well as some other states, you cannot have lights or reflectors other than red or amber behind the rear wheel. I'm not sure how trucks get by with their alternating red and white.

 

You can get red ones from www.hind-sight.net, but they look red in daylight also.

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I 2nd the referral for Fernando and the motoquip reflective tape...

 

This stuff is the real deal...I have a 03 "all black" RT..

I used it on the saddlebags and the top case.Looks a ton better than the 3M stuff which is white.

 

He'll do you right, no waiting, ..

 

MB>

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I 2nd the referral for Fernando and the motoquip reflective tape...

 

This stuff is the real deal...I have a 03 "all black" RT..

I used it on the saddlebags and the top case.Looks a ton better than the 3M stuff which is white.

 

He'll do you right, no waiting, ..

 

MB>

 

Thanks to many of you for the referral, but by and large I stick to the black reflective tape for my kits. The OP has asked about white tape that reflects back white at night.

 

While it's no problem for us to cut a kit using white (actually silver) reflective instead of black, Andy Sager at HindSight is the one who does more custom color work. Give him a shout.

 

And just to be clear, we both use the good 3M stuff, regardless of color.

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Check with the state DOT on line. I believe in California and Texas, as well as some other states, you cannot have lights or reflectors other than red or amber behind the rear wheel. I'm not sure how trucks get by with their alternating red and white.

 

You can get red ones from www.hind-sight.net, but they look red in daylight also.

 

They are not "getting by with it"

In December 1993, the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS)6 regulation requiring the use of retroflective sheeting or tape went into effect.3

 

This regulation requires, " horizontal strips of alter nating red and white pieces beginning and ending as close as practical to the front and rear of the trailer at about four feet from the ground. Rear markings must include (a) alternating colors across the width of the trailer, from side to side, approximately four feet from the ground, (b) pairs of white reflective material applied horizontally and vertically to the right and left upper contours of the trailer as close to the top and as far apart as possible and © a sheeting strip of alternating colors across the full width of the rear underride protection bumpers."

 

In those cases where sheeting is impractical, patterns consisting of two or three red reflectors, alternating with two or three white ones must be affixed.

I'd be willing to go to court anytime if cited for reflective material. Federal trumps state. thumbsup.gif

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Jim, what kind of bike is that? I can't tell... ;)

 

Hmmmmm, a GS? grin.gif

 

Seriously, I find that stripes of block reflective material can more easily be ignored. But when people see letters they tend to try to read them and figure them out. Therefore they are looking at me.

 

I have had a few people tell me that at first glance they thought I was a cop? tongue.gif

 

Jim cool.gif

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They are not "getting by with it"

In December 1993, the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS)6 regulation requiring the use of retroflective sheeting or tape went into effect....

Federal trumps state.

 

Section 5.7, Conspicuity Systems, of Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) 108 - Lamps, Reflective Devices and Associated Equipment applies to trailers 80" or more in overall width with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) greater than 10,000 lbs. manufactured on or after Dec. 1, 1993, and truck tractors manufactured on or after July 1, 1997.

 

Nothing in that Federal Standard prevents states from enforcing laws prohibiting the use of lights or reflectors other than red (or amber turn signals) on the rear of any vehicle which isn't a tractor or trailer.

 

That being said, I have red/white conspicuity tape on my bags and don't expect to be pulled over. I think as long as you don't have blue or purple you're probably safe.

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While I can't speak for all LEO's, I can say with a reasonable amount of common sense, I don't really give a hoot about reflective tape on a MC, SO LONG AS it is not offensive to the majority of society (i.e. - naked people outined in tape, etc..). Don't care if it's blue, red, green or orange with pink polka-dots, if it's done with safety in mind. I'm sure you'll find most other LEO's think the same. Of course, there's always the exception to every rule.

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It`s interesting reading what you guys do over there,on this side of the pond white reflective tape(or the black stuff)is NOT allowed on the rear.Red or amber only, this is to prevent confusion by other motorists at night who seeing a bright white reflection might mistake it for an oncoming vehicle on the wrong side of the road. dopeslap.gif

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Chuck Hatcher
...For me, using white or SOLAS tape instead of the black retro tape gives two benefits...

 

Before you choose SOLAS material, be aware that it is designed to reflect not only visible light but also radar. Great for a boat, but maybe not something you, uh, really need on a bike. At least not something I wanted. Not that there's anything wrong with improving your radar reflectivity, if you are so inclined.

 

Now radar absorbing tape might be interesting...

 

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Yet another thumbsup.gif for Fernando's kits (as well as the supporting 'your own' comment)

 

I just got 2 kits in the mail today

 

RK-5 Saddlebag Reflective Strip Kit - Side & Front

 

RK-4 Top Case Reflective Strip Kit

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Davis,

My point is that if the Feds require it for big rigs, what's the logic to any prohibition for other vehicles?

(Not wanting a hijack here)

It also would require a statutory/legislative definition of "reflector".

It could impact all bumper stickers and lead to a monster class action suit. grin.gif

Also, what about states that require registrations mounted on the side.

How about licenst plate decals, they're reflective, and not red.

Howzabout license plates, white reflective.

etc...

How about reflective clothing?

Not arguing with YOU, just thinking out loud. tongue.gif

Dellboy,

Ya'll already drive on the wrong side of the road so how would you know if a car was driving on the right side? Or wrong side? lmao.gif

wave.gif

My bike, on right, with red, black, blue amber, SOLAS, etc...

DSC02428.jpg

The BIG white reflection in the middle is the license plate. dopeslap.gif

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Chuck Hatcher,

 

Can you point me to a reference that shows SOLAS tape as being radar reflective (or at least more than the rest of the bike/rider).

 

Thanks in advance.

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Chuck Hatcher
Chuck Hatcher,

 

Can you point me to a reference that shows SOLAS tape as being radar reflective (or at least more than the rest of the bike/rider).

 

Thanks in advance.

 

I don't know of a specific reference. SOLAS (Safety Of Life At Sea) is an international treaty which requires certain marine safety features, including radar, radar transponders, and/or radar reflectors, depending on the size of the vessel. As I understand it, the difference between SOLAS grade reflective tape and regular reflective tape is that the SOLAS type is made on or with a metallic film (probably aluminum). If you put it on an aluminum pannier, there would probably be no difference in radar profile. If you put it on something plastic, it might reflect radar a little bit better.

 

I know of no reason why reflective material designed for marine use would work better for bike safety than reflective material designed for vehicle conspicuity.

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Here's my old RT in broad daylight. Even a wimpy little point-and-shoot camera flash made the reflective tape light up like a Christmas tree!

 

utah.jpg

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It`s interesting reading what you guys do over there,on this side of the pond white reflective tape(or the black stuff)is NOT allowed on the rear.Red or amber only, this is to prevent confusion by other motorists at night who seeing a bright white reflection might mistake it for an oncoming vehicle on the wrong side of the road. dopeslap.gif

 

Whereas you are technically correct, I have one of Fernando's kits on my RT. The police never seem to worry about it, I have even had traffic cars following me at night without being pulled over.

 

Andy

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Chuck Hatcher,

 

Can you point me to a reference that shows SOLAS tape as being radar reflective (or at least more than the rest of the bike/rider).

 

Thanks in advance.

 

I don't know of a specific reference. SOLAS (Safety Of Life At Sea) is an international treaty which requires certain marine safety features, including radar, radar transponders, and/or radar reflectors, depending on the size of the vessel. As I understand it, the difference between SOLAS grade reflective tape and regular reflective tape is that the SOLAS type is made on or with a metallic film (probably aluminum). If you put it on an aluminum pannier, there would probably be no difference in radar profile. If you put it on something plastic, it might reflect radar a little bit better.

 

I know of no reason why reflective material designed for marine use would work better for bike safety than reflective material designed for vehicle conspicuity.

 

Radar is most strongly "reflected" from metal meeting at angles or at sharp transitions in surface, such as an edge. In fact, most radar returns are re-radiated from the edges of panels etc. there are so many internal angles and square-edged lumps of metal on your bike that any amount of metalic tape will be lost in the noise. Remember, to radar the plastic on your bike isn't there - then think of the shape of the remaining metal.

 

Andy

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Chuck Hatcher,

 

Can you point me to a reference that shows SOLAS tape as being radar reflective (or at least more than the rest of the bike/rider).

 

Thanks in advance.

 

I don't know of a specific reference. SOLAS (Safety Of Life At Sea) is an international treaty which requires certain marine safety features, including radar, radar transponders, and/or radar reflectors, depending on the size of the vessel. As I understand it, the difference between SOLAS grade reflective tape and regular reflective tape is that the SOLAS type is made on or with a metallic film (probably aluminum). If you put it on an aluminum pannier, there would probably be no difference in radar profile. If you put it on something plastic, it might reflect radar a little bit better.

 

I know of no reason why reflective material designed for marine use would work better for bike safety than reflective material designed for vehicle conspicuity.

 

Chuck,

There are differences.

The microprism have different reflective angles of effectiveness, different levels of intensity, different weather handling properties, and different lifespans.

 

 

From websites.

T-ISS Tape is an encapsulated lens type sheeting with a flexible and highly transparent plastic film.Our tape has been specially designed for the marine and offshore industry. It ensure long durabllity, high brightness and antidelamination. All products are comprised of an encapsulated lens optical design that provides high reflectivity over a wide range of entrance angles, wheter dry or wet. All products are silver in color under daytime viewing conditions and reflect a bright white.

Retro reflective Performance:

The coefficient of retroreflection (RA, in cd/lux/m2) is measured by methods traceable to either of the following retroreflective

intensity testing procedures:

ASTM E809 and E810 (RA)

CIE 54: 1982 (R’)

Based on tests performed by SOLASTAPE it is in accordance with IMO procedures and verified by an outside third party, T-ISS CS 512 reflective material meets or exceed these values.

 

Durability

The CS 512 sheeting has to be converted according to the T-ISS technical information. In that case the material will have a life expectancy of 10 years in outdoor situation

3M SOLAS Reflective Tape - Our 3M 3150A & 6750I SOLAS (Safety Of Life At Sea) reflective tapes are U.S. Coast Guard approved (SPECIFICATIONS). SOLAS tape is specifically designed to enhance the visibility of life jackets, ring buoys, survival suits, and inflatable life rafts in marine environments. This tape is highly flexible and adheres (3150A) to rubber-coated cloth, vinyl-nylon laminated cloth, cured polyester cloth, PVC, and aluminum. The sew-on SOLAS (6750I) exhibits all the same qualities as the adhesive 3150A and has a sewable 4-mil polyester backing. Both SOLAS tapes are excellent for outerwear applications such as motorcycle jackets and raingear. Sticks to nylon and codura. Sold in 10-foot increments or 55-yard rolls. Specifications and instructions for all 3M SOLAS reflective materials can be found HERE. Note that SOLAS tapes are not machine washable.

3M Marine Grade Reflective Film (below) - For permanent marking of navigational buoys, channel markers, dayboards, and similar equipment, see our 3M US Coast Guard approved High Intensity Reflective Films below. These are designed to survive conditions of extreme ocean weather, temperature, and saltwater.

High-Intensity Retro-Reflective (Conspicuity) Tape - available in 6 colors. This tape is Reflexite's V92 Daybright reflective tape utilizes internal cube-corner microprisms to provide a brilliant reflection. Its brightness, depending on color, ranges from 2.7 to 4.4 times brighter than typical engineering grade material. Reflexite V92 has a distinctive triangular pattern and is thin, tough, and flexible enough to wrap around bicycle tubing. It is both weather and fire resistant - it meets NFPA standards for fire resistance (500ºF for 5 minutes without melting, dripping, or igniting), and it also works with infra-red range finders. Reflexite V92 has a high-tack adhesive with peel-off backing and is ideal for reflective striping on emergency vehicles, respirator tanks, motorcycles, bicycles, helmets, gates and bollards (when wrapping strips around small diameters like poles, be sure to avoid touching either surface where it is to overlap). The order of increasing brightness is blue, green, red, orange, gold, and silver. The tape is slit to metric measurements that are slightly less than full inches. Rolls are sold in increments of 10 feet and are also available in 50-yd rolls (call for pricing). Also see our 3M USCG approved reflective materials for 3-inch and 6-inch widths.

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There are always posts about reflective tape and the "law". I want to do whatever it takes to make my bike and me as visible as is possible. As for which direction any vehicle ahead or oncoming is going, does anyone actually stop to think which direction the vehicle is traveling because of the color of the reflective tape?! No way IMO. And if someone really wants to know the law, I certainly would contact my local LEO instead of relying on some post on a website. JMO of course.

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Interesting comment about asking a local LEO. I can easily attest that many don't know that headlight modulators are legal for motorcycles.

 

So, if you want to know the laws... consider looking up the statutes (generally found on the web) for the Federal or the state jurisdictions in question.

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Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that the intenet by one of the responses was to lower your RADAR signature to LEO's.

 

Sooooooo.... as to all talk about RADAR reflective tape, traffic RADAR works on the Doppler effect, not reflcted radiation (energy). The traffic RADAR sends out a sound wave and the relected shift in the wave is what is measured. Metal, plastic or rocks, it don't matter. So SOLAS tape while being of maybe a higher eflective grade, is no more relective then the 3M tape.

 

sorry for the slight hijack and science lesson.

 

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Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that the intenet by one of the responses was to lower your RADAR signature to LEO's.

 

Sooooooo.... as to all talk about RADAR reflective tape, traffic RADAR works on the Doppler effect, not reflcted radiation (energy). The traffic RADAR sends out a sound wave and the relected shift in the wave is what is measured. Metal, plastic or rocks, it don't matter. So SOLAS tape while being of maybe a higher eflective grade, is no more relective then the 3M tape.

 

sorry for the slight hijack and science lesson.

 

Pity you got it wrong then grin.gif

 

Traffic radar sends out a radio wave not sound. It measures the difference in frequency between the transmitted signal and the reflected signal. The ability of the radar gun to measure speed is dependant on the reflected signal being strong enough to be detected by the gun. I am quite able to reduce the radar signature of my bike to the point where your radar gun could not see it (see my profile). I just don't have enough money to do so.

 

Andy

 

As for reflective tape - I read an article recently that suggests that we humans are good at seeing certain shapes, such as people or even just heads. Cutting reflective film to recognisable shapes may be better than matching the shape of the cases - Like the GS example above.

 

Andy

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Chuck Hatcher
As for reflective tape - I read an article recently that suggests that we humans are good at seeing certain shapes, such as people or even just heads. Cutting reflective film to recognisable shapes may be better than matching the shape of the cases - Like the GS example above.

 

Andy

 

We should probably use colors and shapes that cause drivers to avoid hitting us. Knowing that "target fixation" causes you to hit what you look at, an unexpected, interesting shape might cause motorists to stare and fail to take evasive action. Something really hideous that causes them to immediately avert their eyes would be the ticket, but what would that be?

 

I think most drivers find headlights or taillights coming straight at them objectionable, and would react appropriately to white or red reflectors. But do you know for sure what a startled driver will do when they see a hi-viz smiley face or a glowing American flag?

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We should probably use colors and shapes that cause drivers to avoid hitting us. Knowing that "target fixation" causes you to hit what you look at, an unexpected, interesting shape might cause motorists to stare and fail to take evasive action. Something really hideous that causes them to immediately avert their eyes would be the ticket, but what would that be?

 

I will send you a pic of my wife lmao.gif

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As for reflective tape - I read an article recently that suggests that we humans are good at seeing certain shapes, such as people or even just heads. Cutting reflective film to recognisable shapes may be better than matching the shape of the cases - Like the GS example above.

 

Andy

 

We should probably use colors and shapes that cause drivers to avoid hitting us. Knowing that "target fixation" causes you to hit what you look at, an unexpected, interesting shape might cause motorists to stare and fail to take evasive action. Something really hideous that causes them to immediately avert their eyes would be the ticket, but what would that be?

 

I think most drivers find headlights or taillights coming straight at them objectionable, and would react appropriately to white or red reflectors. But do you know for sure what a startled driver will do when they see a hi-viz smiley face or a glowing American flag?

 

I know you ride where you look to a certain degree. But if your logic were true, people would be smashing into the back of each other a heck of a lot more than they already do.

 

I saw a guy post that he would only put his GPS in the center of his handlebars because he was afraid that if mounted it on the side and he looked at it he would accidentally turn and ride off the road! ooo.gif This guy needs to take some more riding classes. dopeslap.gif

 

Jim cool.gif

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If you want to know why the SOLAS reflectors reflect light better than the other "black during the day" type read this (hint: they are corner cube reflectors...)

 

I don't know about the physics behind the additional radar reflectivity issue, but it would seem that your radar reflectivity is good enough without a reflector, why worry about the miniscule additional reflectivity that a visible light reflector would add? You are riding within the speed limit anyways, right? smirk.gif

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The ability of the radar gun to measure speed is dependant on the reflected signal being strong enough to be detected by the gun. I am quite able to reduce the radar signature of my bike to the point where your radar gun could not see it

 

My friend from across the pond, I agree, I mistyped...I should not have indicated sound wave, but in fact radio wave.

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I work traffic accidents for a living- 17 years now. I can not remember ever working one with a motor involved that the rider and or his motor had reflective materials and higher visibilty clothing and helmet. Most were the dark riders with single headlight and taillight. And most were high performance motors ridden by younger males or dark colored Harleys with black leather going from one bar to another.

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I have been using the black/white reflective stuff for several years, in Michigan and about 30 other states and most Canadian provinces. No problem so far.

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