I went down.

[Rocket_Cowboy]

Whip ... just getting back home from Christmas and saw this thread. Sorry to hear about your accident, but glad to hear it's not any worse than it is. Rest up that leg ... I'm sure you'll start having some other assorted aches and pains over the next couple days ... at least that's what I remember of my last wreck even with all the Vicoden I was prescribed.

 

Let us know if there's anything we can do to help ... we're not all that far from you and Louise.

[Dennis Andress]

Dang that bites. Take time to heal right so you're in shape for next year's riding.

 

Dennis

[flyingreg]

Sheeeeeeeeesh! There are easier ways to get loads of attention!

 

Get better quickly, we have allot of riding to do.

 

Louise, guard the supply of scotch!

[Steve1962]

Larry,

 

Sorry to be reading this , heal well .

 

Steve

[Joel]

I'll add to the chorus of "Sorry to see this, much relieved it wasn't worse." Dang, buddy.

 

I'll also add the obligatory dog trainer pun: HEAL!!!

 

Take care. Team Schnauzer send you its best.

[Ron_B]

Oh man, that really sucks!

 

Glad you're ok. Take it easy for a while.

 

Hope to see you at Torrey this spring.

[Mike O]

Hey Whip...Glad it wasn't worse, and hang in there.

 

Mike O

[PRC]

Whip,

Sorry to hear about your crash....it reminds me of mine, only it was a left side injury..

 

 

Heal fast.

[WestTX RT]

Uh-oh. That's not good. I know a good nurse that lives close by, I'll have her come check on you.

Maybe the Ags will win and make it all better.

[TN_R_Girl]

Whip, so sorry to hear about your down ... heal quickly and don't underestimate the value of self-medication

 

Get better soon!

[EffBee]

What some guys won't do to have a pretty lady wait on them.

 

Take care, Whip. It's time to rest up and get well. My best to you and Louise (and your FJR).

[W8NONU]

Sorry to hear of the accident, but glad it was not worse. This will also allow time to plan the next few excursions. Heal quickly and hope to see out riding soon.

[CraigC]

Best wishes for a speedy recovery (no pun intended).

[roadscholar]

Whip, Sorry about the mishap. Take it easy, real easy.

[roydog007]

Heal up fast, lots of roads left to ride

[gettysburg]

What some guys won't do to have a pretty lady wait on them.

 

Hehe, With the exception of my wife, I've been getting a fair bit of sympathy from the ladies when they see the cast.

As for my wife, she just wants to know when I can resume taking out the trash.

[Francois_Dumas]

But wait !!! Instead of making him Ambassador, we'd better make him Moderator. He now has nothing better to do than sit in front of the monitor all day !!!

[BeniciaRT_GT]

Maybe this will make you feel better?

 

Good memories from this trip?

 

 

[Whip]

This is the place......I think you can see the front wheel wash out area and then some scrapes on the ground where the frame slider did it's thing.....after looking at the pix...maybe I was going slower than I thought. You can also see how the shade masked the gravel.

Pictures by Limecreek

 

 

I've never got to ride in a meat wagon before.....hope it's the last time.

Pictures by Limecreek.

 

 

 

I want to thank everyone for the love.

 

Feel free to make comments about the seen of the accident. I hope I can learn something from it.

 

Whip

[AviP]

This is the place......I think you can see the front wheel wash out area and then some scrapes on the ground where the frame slider did it's thing.....after looking at the pix...maybe I was going slower than I thought. You can also see how the shade masked the gravel.

That's hardly a right turn. I think this situation was worsened by the low speed and dark visor. If you were braking, that would also contribute.

 

No more dark visors for you!

[philbytx]

OK Folks,

Enough of all this love

 

Now that he's rolling out the excuses (shade hiding the gravel etc...) and then giving the all encompassing "feel free to make comments"!!, he should, at the very least, receive a small modicum of grief eh!???

 

OK! I think Whip's "Can't stop, cabs will eat me" should be replaced by:

"Dark Visor"

 

That was one of a couple he offered up at the scene (Philby confused me was another..!) but he'll probably deny it all by stating that it was due to him being momentarily "stunned", just like the Norwegian Blue in the Monty Python parrot sketch !

 

Larry, I found my spare Battery Tender Jr

Now, if you do have one available, you could send me a BMW pigtail and I'll be happy to connect the FJR up to the "Collective" here at the house

 

Oh! And when Deb and I were in the garage this morning and I mentioned that I would be washing Darth tomorrow, I was sure I saw your bike move further back into the corner

 

Anyway, I hope you are behaving yourself and being a good patient for Louise

[Paul Mihalka]

This is not a comment on Whip's slide-out, but just a general observation. Working in a motorcycle shop I obviously hear of many bike get-offs. Seems to me that slides like this have become more frequent as we get into higher powered, and some times lighter, bikes. I see it happening with K1200RS, K1200S, FJR, Tuono (!), etc. I think the riders of these bikes get so used to the high power and super traction of today's tires, that they accelerate out of turns harder than they used to without really noticing it. It goes well and is perfectly safe 99.9% of the time. OTOH, on gravel a super 190/50x17 sport tire does not have more traction, may be even less, Than a Conti Twin or Metzeler ME77 4.00x18 had 30 years ago, so it bites you..

[Whip]

"That was one of a couple he offered up at the scene (Philby confused me was another..!) but he'll probably deny it all by stating that it was due to him being momentarily "stunned", just like the Norwegian Blue in the Monty Python parrot sketch !"

 

I wasn't gonna say anything

 

 

If you didn't fake me out with the first right turn I may have been in he right place when we got to the correct turn.

 

And keep the water and tender away from my bike.....you'll spoil it.

 

 

 

Whip

[Whip]

Paul

 

You may be right.....to take it a step further....A well set up bike sport bike with good tires inspires a confidence that is hard to beat. The FJR has never felt better. I have been so confident riding it that maybe I wasn't showing proper respect for my surroundings.

 

Whip

[motorman587]

What did the EMT's look like???

[russell_bynum]

Paul

 

You may be right.....to take it a step further....I well set up bike sport bike with good tires inspires a confidence that is hard to beat. The FJR has never felt better. I have been so confident riding it that maybe I wasn't showing proper respect for my surroundings.

 

Whip

 

Definitely. The big thing the Tuono is always doing to me, is getting to corners a bunch sooner than I expected. You come out of a turn, open the throttle, and before you really have time to think about it, you're at the next turn going 40mph faster than you should be going. I have to constantly work to stay visually ahead of the bike in the tight stuff.

 

Regarding the tires, I agree with Paul. The adhesion that we get from modern sport touring tires (nevermind sportbike tires, which are insanely sticky) is incredible. But a tire that's riding on top of a layer of ball bearing gravel is going to slide, regardless of how sticky it is.

[philbytx]

Both female, one was cute but both were very professional and efficient !!!

[motorman587]

Sweeeeeet, must been the one on the left, looks good in the picture.

 

 

I have a question, the motor that went down, ABS or no ABS and if this would've matter, I know in a turn ABS does not matter, or was the crash as the motor was up right. I think this was in a turn, to me the pictures shows a right turn lane. Could be wrong.

[Whip]

ABS...rt turn...rt side...I was not on the brakes...not even touching them....really fast(instant) low side....rt foot never came off the peg....got pinned under then pushed back......hence broken leg.

[motorman587]

That sucks, we do this all time in motor training, maybe not all the time, but slow speed tip overs. Glad you ok and get to type about it. Another thing I saw in the picture was shadows. Shadows can hide the unknowns, we had a motor go down, low speed, right hander, hit sand that shadows hid. Thanks for sharing, good refresher, to be careful out there.

[Boffin]

ABS...rt turn...rt side...I was not on the brakes...not even touching them....really fast(instant) low side....rt foot never came off the peg....got pinned under then pushed back......hence broken leg.

 

Do you think the cylinders on a BMW would have stopped the injury?

 

note: this is NOT a dig at the FJR, just curiosity.

 

Andy

[RatSnake]

Shesh...what kind of a dumbass crashes on gravel?

 

 

 

Bummer, I can relate. Bustin' my arm up the way I did, it was 3 months before I was on a bike again. Heal fast.

[Whip]

 

Do you think the cylinders on a BMW would have stopped the injury?

 

note: this is NOT a dig at the FJR, just curiosity.

 

Andy

 

 

Hey Andy

 

Maybe....it happen so fast and the memories of the fall are blurred together so I can't answer....the bike was sitting on the slider and the Givi saddle bag....and if the slider would have stuck out further or the RT right side cylinder had made impact it may have kept me from getting pinned and saved me from an EMS ride.....If I could have seperated myself from the bike everything would have been fine ...I think.

 

If I had been on the GSA I'm sure I would have been clear of the bike but I would have been 2 feet higher in the air and could've hurt myself with the fall.

 

Whip

[Boffin]

Over the years I have crashed several times. The only times I got injured were when I was going slowly - two dislocated ankles (opposite sides, different times) and one fractured scaphoid. With the ankles I was trapped under the bike after a slow drop similar to yours and my torso rolled separating the joints. With the scaphoid I was stationary, left foot down on a steep left-to-right slope when a gust of wind hit me and pushed me to the right. I could not reach the ground with my right foot and fell heavily onto my outstretched right arm.

 

I have also dropped my bike at over 90MPH (front wheel lockup in a slight turn) and survived with friction burns.

 

Andy

[motorman587]

Maybe that is why we walk away in motor training tip overs, crash bars and jugs.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Andy,

I'm not sure about the cylinders but can speak for a Jesse bag equipped 1150 GS Adventure with the front crash bars. I low sided mine in a 40 mph corner and slid across the road and into some loam on the side of the road. My foot never left the peg nor did my hands leave the bars. Scuffed up the shoulder area of my Aerostitch roadcrafter and no other part of my body touched the ground. It was far enough over to scuff the side of the tank (big on and adventure) and I still didn't touch anything down. The crash bars are about 2" proud of the cylinders and the Jesse bags stick out a good long way.

[Rocket_Cowboy]

OK! I think Whip's "Can't stop, cabs will eat me" should be replaced by:

"Dark Visor"

 

How 'bout...

 

"Suddenly stopped ... dark visor"

[Firefight911]

OK! I think Whip's "Can't stop, cabs will eat me" should be replaced by:

"Dark Visor"

 

How 'bout...

 

"Suddenly stopped ... dark visor"

 

My submission would be for "Dark Helmet." A take off from that classic movie 'Space Balls.'

[Joel]

 

Do you think the cylinders on a BMW would have stopped the injury?

 

note: this is NOT a dig at the FJR, just curiosity.

 

Andy

 

Hey Andy

 

Maybe....it happen so fast and the memories of the fall are blurred together so I can't answer....the bike was sitting on the slider and the Givi saddle bag....and if the slider would have stuck out further or the RT right side cylinder had made impact it may have kept me from getting pinned and saved me from an EMS ride.....If I could have seperated myself from the bike everything would have been fine ...I think.

 

If I had been on the GSA I'm sure I would have been clear of the bike but I would have been 2 feet higher in the air and could've hurt myself with the fall.

 

Whip

 

Having had my own low-speed lowside just 2 weeks ago, the same thought crossed my mind when I first read this and realized you were on the FJR. I smacked my right shoulder and hip, but my leg was fine. Scuffed my pants a bit, but I think that was from the slide, not the impact. My crash bar and side case took the brunt of it, and seem to create a fair amount of clearance for the footpeg and my leg. But, I don't know if that would be the case in another similar fall.

[barryNmarin]

Larry, I wish I had something clever to say but I don't so I'll just wish you a speedy recovery for Louise's sake.

Interesting photo, the road looks clean and the shoulder area also appears free of gravel. Do you think the gravel that took you down was spilled out of gravel trucks making that right turn? Between the alternating shadows, bright patches, dark visor and unexpected and unseen gravel, you just got real unlucky on one hand but you sure found out that there are a lot of people who care what happens to you.

Anyway your experience is a wakeup call for all of us to expect the unexpected so thanks for sharing.

[Maggie]

OK, I am really sorry that you had an accident and wish the same speedy recovery as others, however, I have one serious question: Why did you get rid of your RT? The HD I can understand(somewhat)but as you and I have talked before, that stable is a great list of bikes! Did I miss your thread on the sale of these and why or what????? I can see why you kept the FJR, but...the RT? Take care and you have a ton of support on this site for your speedy recovery!

[tallman]

Darth Visor?

[flyingreg]

I found another shot of one of the emt's that "assisted" you during your unfortunate get off.

[NoHeat]

 

I'm wondering what a rider could watch for to discover well in advance the risk of gravel at that intersection.

 

I'm reminded of Russell's accident scene in this 600 kB photo where the gravel was just about invisible due to being the same color as the pavement.

 

I remember studying Russell's post #709875 last summer very carefully, trying to learn some kind of useful lesson about what to watch for. In Russell's photos like this one the road he was riding had a shoulder with lots of gravel that had the same color as the pavement. That made me think that it would pay to watch for that situation: shoulder gravel color matches roadway.

 

Trouble is that in Whip's case the shoulder along the road he was riding doesn't seem to have any gravel at all, so my idea wouldn't have been helpful.

 

For Whip's crash site, where did the that gravel come from, anyway? Did the other street at that intersection have a gravel shoulder?

 

Best wishes for a speedy recovery, Whip.

[Firefight911]

From looking at this photo, without ever having seen the actual roadway, and thereby being 100% speculation, it appears that the roadway has more than likely been chip sealed.

 

This is where they go over a roadway and lay down a thick, tarry oil substance. It is then followed by a layering of gravel. It is rolled in and then left for cars to embed into the roadway surface.

 

After a few weeks or so, they come by and sweep the excess and voila, a cheaply resurfaced roadway.

 

The problem with this is twofold; you can't always get the roadway cleared, and, after time; the roadway starts to breakup and non-frequently traveled areas of the roadway tend to collect this loosened gravel.

 

The gravel is the same color as the roadway, which makes it next to impossible to see. Especially when shadows are in the area and with sunglasses/tinted visors in use.

 

What makes me think that this might be the case in this photo is the spot/line that appears to be worn through to the previous layer of asphalt. In other words, the roadway that was there prior to chip sealing. This line tends to appear at the point of overlap of one pass of the slurry truck to the next. If there is not an adequate overlap of the passes of the truck, there is a thin spot or gap in the slury. There can only be a minimal, at best, gravel adhesion at this point.

 

I remember Angeles Crest Highway having been repaved this way in the past several times and it certainly makes for a clenched ride.

 

What to watch for? Looking for loose gravel along the road crown, center of the lane, and shoulder areas. These tend to be the least frequently "used" areas of the road. Local knowledge of the roadway and the roadway maintenance tactics typically being employed in the area.

 

Also, a roadway that has not had much maintenance, such as secondary roads in rural areas will tend to breakdown more than the more frequented primary roadways and will subsequently create gravel spots along the less traveled areas of the road. This is simply a matter of spending the dollars on the more frequently used roads.

 

Unfortuante for us as we all tend to prefer the road less traveled, as it were.

 

This is in no way anything other than a simple idea as to a possible contributing cause to this and/or many other unfortunate get offs. I will repeat that I have never motorcycled, YET, in Texas (March is coming!!!) and am, therefore; not familiar with any aspect of Texas roads, construction, or maintenance.

 

I was not there and as Whip has stated, it was such a sudden event, even he may not be able to reconstruct it to the point of knowing what led up to the get off.

 

I have ridden with Whip and can attest to his skill as a motorcyclist. He does not take it lightly!!!! He is good at it!!!

 

There may not be any explanation other than it happened and it is a reminder to ATGATT and keep you head and eyes on the swivel while maintaining a high visual awareness.

[Heck]

Darth Visor

 

 

Seriously though- Glad you're gonna be OK Whip- Heal quickly and hope to meet you if you cage to DV....

 

 

Gee, I wonder if there will be a change to "Maxi Headroom"?? (Eff- you listening???)

[Ken H.]

Hummm...

 

While fully acknowledging that this is "Monday Morning Quarterbacking", and also that the view from the other way in the direction of travel was different than the photo, and possibly the lighting/shadows at the time too, still... that's a LOT of gravel. And given the type of road surface and nature of the turn; it is in a location where it seems to me it might have been expected.

 

Not trying to beat up on Whip here when he is down, but if there is a lesson for all of us in this, it is that we need to be more situationally aware. Or more accurately, 'hypothetical/potential situation' aware of what might be in our future in front of us.

[tallman]

I've had this happen too.

Twilight, right hand turn, gravel same color as the road surface.

There weren't any visual cues, no prior intersections with this situation.

Gravel deep enough to cover a rim.

In Whip's photos, the right turn arrow is partially obfuscated by the gravel. Is this a common result from sweeping the road chips?

Sometimes the only thing you can do is not be there in the first place.

[Francois_Dumas]

Yes, I noticed the partially covered arrow too..... after the tenth time I looked at the picture.... Sometimes 'it' just gets you I suppose

 

I was 'close' a few months ago. Visited a trade show in Germany at an airport. Hotel was 800 yards from the show. In the evening I was a speaker at the closing dinner and we had an hour or so between end of show and start of dinner.

 

I rode the bike to the hotel to drop off my stuff and get changed.. needed to 'look nice'. It was cold, so decided to ride the bike back to the show. But who wants to show up in ATGATT at a banquet.. right !? Right.

 

So I only took my riding jacket, helmet and boots and headed into the dark parking lot. I usually NEVER ride without my gear.

 

Right in front of the hotel entrance, dimly lighted, I had to make a sharp turn left.

When I did my rear wheel snapped to a side. I managed to correct it (off the throttle and counter steer, standing on the pegs).... but it was REAL close !

And I had no clue what happened !!

 

Next morning I looked out my bedroom window, just above the place where it happened.

It was a brand new hotel, they just finished the parking lot and there was a nice spot of black gravel on the black asphalt..... no idea why, invisible at night.....

 

Shit happens !

[Tasker]

This is the place......I think you can see the front wheel wash out area and then some scrapes on the ground where the frame slider did it's thing.....after looking at the pix...maybe I was going slower than I thought. You can also see how the shade masked the gravel.

 

This is precisely why I have stopped using dark face shields.

 

I had the darkest face shield on my Arai helmet the day I crashed and I know it contributed to my troubles. Even on the brightest of days, I had "issues" with riding in and out of shaded areas.

 

And, I found myself not wanting to stop to change shields when I should have. I'm now using a clear shield and sunglasses, which are much easier to change when the lighting conditions change. If the sun is going down and I need less shading for my eyes, I just pull over and slip my sunglasses into my tank bag until I need them again.

 

I realize that it is different strokes for different folks but for me, this has been a good solution.

 

The only time I will use a shaded face shield now is if I know I will be putting in several hundred miles on the slab and then I am only using the medium-dark shield.