Dennis Andress Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 ... and everything stopped. The bike and I coasted to a stop shortly thereafter. Its bad, the engine won't turn and there's some oil splattered above the right engine cover. I think that a rod bearing failed and departed from its usual position. The bike has 69022 miles on it and is still covered by an extended warranty . I won't be able to get it to a shop until Friday. So, how many K1200s have suffered a big end failure? Link to comment
tallman Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 EEK! Anything different before? Warning signs? Noises? Do you use Laney's dealership? Who's your extended warranty with? Maybe I need one. Best wishes for speedy resolution. Link to comment
bmwmick Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 Dennis, I saw a 1999 K1200RS that tossed #2 rod through the crank cover. It had been dropped with the engine running about 5K miles before it let loose. The diagnosis was that the oil pump sucked air while it was running on it's right side. Mick Link to comment
Bruce C Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 I sure don't like this!!! Shoulda kept the K100. Link to comment
Dennis Andress Posted December 18, 2006 Author Share Posted December 18, 2006 EEK! Anything different before? Warning signs? Noises? Do you use Laney's dealership? Who's your extended warranty with? Maybe I need one. Best wishes for speedy resolution. Tim, Pardon me for not telling you the name of the company holding the Extended Warranty. I'll post that after they make a decision on this. I bought the bike used and the EW was a big deciding factor in my choice to buy it. So, in that sense an Extended Warranty is a good idea. It did also cover the labor in replacing the rear main seal this summer, that was a good thing but I paid for all the oil soaked clutch parts as this company does not cover clutches. The mechanic "Joe" removed the intake cam and adjusted one valve on my bike in September. I haven't taken the valve cover off since but I have found that he left two spark plug cables loose on their plugs. No real obvious warning signs. We were riding on city streets coming back from the grocery store. With ear plugs in I didn't hear much but the bike felt "odd" while de-accelerating for one traffic light. As I pulled away two lights later a fearful noise ensued. The bike has never been "down". Last weekend I stopped at a stop sign and didn't get my foot out in time but that amounted to little more than gently sitting the bike down on the left saddle bag and, I'd killed the engine with the clutch. Dennis Link to comment
Fasterpill Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Aw, Dennis, you can't hear with your earplugs out. I think the Harley engine avatar might be bad beemer karma. Mine has been behaving beautifully, but I lost the extended warranty since I couldn't prove Sam had the bike serviced (I read the small print). Hope they give you a new engine or a new bike! Hope we go riding together again some day. Link to comment
Calvin (no socks) Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 First of all Not a K1200s... Another board member in Texas which will remain nameless, did not tighten an oil filter and burned a crank throw or two... What was the oil level? Up to top? What did the crankcase smell like? Gasoline? Burnt? How long has it been leaking? Just started? Loss of power preceding engine failure? Indicated problem Oil temperature rise preceding failure? Indicates friction increase.. Blocked breather can blow seals out at higher rpm.. Oil lamp lit...usually way too late.. Link to comment
Dennis Andress Posted December 19, 2006 Author Share Posted December 19, 2006 First of all Not a K1200s... Another board member in Texas which will remain nameless, did not tighten an oil filter and burned a crank throw or two... What was the oil level? Up to top? What did the crankcase smell like? Gasoline? Burnt? How long has it been leaking? Just started? Loss of power preceding engine failure? Indicated problem Oil temperature rise preceding failure? Indicates friction increase.. Blocked breather can blow seals out at higher rpm.. Oil lamp lit...usually way too late.. I believe our Texas friend got two engines... I last checked the oil level over a week ago. The bike had no leaks and doesn't smoke. Normal oil consumption is (was) around 1/4 quart over the 6000 miles between changes. It had just over 5900 miles on the last oil change. I've used Mobil 1 and the previous owner used BMW synthetic. There is maybe 1/2 a cup of oil splattered on the bottom of the fuel tank. I couldn't see the hole it came from but as near as I can tell it is in the block, not the engine cover. Everything smells like oil, no gasoline smell to it at all. The engine ran great that morning and just before it seized. There was no smoking or any other indications that it was hot when I stopped. Dennis Link to comment
Dennis Andress Posted December 19, 2006 Author Share Posted December 19, 2006 I think the Harley engine avatar might be bad beemer karma. I have a soft spot for Panheads...... Link to comment
ESokoloff Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 The Black Pearl's been hanging around Buddy too much Hope things go well for you on this. Link to comment
Dennis Andress Posted December 19, 2006 Author Share Posted December 19, 2006 The Black Pearl's been hanging around Buddy too much Hope things go well for you on this. Hi Eric! Buddy has been on the receiving end of trouble for too long to cause any. Link to comment
Dennis Andress Posted December 21, 2006 Author Share Posted December 21, 2006 I had the opportunity to remove the tupperware and fuel tank yesterday. The #1 rod let go. Looking in the oil fill hole with a flashlight I can see a large bolt, like a rod bolt, sitting under the #2 rod. The #2 rod has damage from hitting something and there is also damage at bottom of the #2 cylinder bore. I can see the #1 rod bearing journal, its scratched across half of its surface. I don't see any blueing or other heat damage that would mean the bearing went first and caused the other parts to fail. Can a rod bolt fall out? Link to comment
JerryMather Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 Can a rod bolt fall out? Yes, they do break. Carrillo rod bolts, which are one of the best out there, can cost $30.00 each because they're made to stay together under extreme conditions, but even they give way from time to time. I've got the bottom half of one of their rods thats up on the wall of the shop just under a sign saying "Offerings to the God of Speed" and it's almost flat. Link to comment
Bruce C Posted December 21, 2006 Share Posted December 21, 2006 Dennis Damn, that's too bad. Are you going to strip it further before you haul it to the dealer? In the bottom photo, what is that broken casting, the block? Link to comment
Dennis Andress Posted December 21, 2006 Author Share Posted December 21, 2006 That's part of a rod sticking out of the block. The EW contract covers "failure of internally lubed engine parts." That's one of them right there. But, their adjuster looks at the bike and reach his own conclusions about what caused the failure. That makes it hands off for me. I do want to get more pictures after the dealer removes the cover. Link to comment
Limecreek Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Ugh. This is bringing back some very bad memories for me. I hope it works out in your favor Dennis. I need to go look at my old notes, but I believe it was #1 that let go on me too. Of course we later learned that the root cause was the mechanic. Link to comment
ESokoloff Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Well that 'aint gunna 'buff out See you at the up coming Tech Daze Link to comment
Dennis Andress Posted December 24, 2006 Author Share Posted December 24, 2006 The bike is at Brown's in Pomona. They took off the right engine cover to find this: I guess they removed the main bearing to see if the bike had been run while low on oil. That bearing looks good and the engine is maybe 1/2 a quart low after blowing a bunch out. After finding the other half of the bolt sitcking out of the block in the early pictures I would say that bolt broke and caused the failure Brown's has submitted a claim for a complete new engine to my EW company. I'll post their response when I get it. Link to comment
russell_bynum Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 That Extended Warranty is about to pay for itself many times over. Link to comment
Officer_Impersonator Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 Ouch! Those photos of broken, bent and twisted German steel brings a tear to my eye. I wish your bike a speedy recovery, and I hope it's covered under warranty. Good luck! Link to comment
timmr Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 Damn Dennis, that sux. I was thinking about you guys this weekend. I was thinking happy thoughts, I promise. Makes me want to rethink the extended warranty option on my bikes. Hope they get it right for you. Link to comment
KMG_365 Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 Dang!! I just found this post in searching for why Dennis got a new avatar! Sorry to hear about this catastrophic failure, Dennis and I hope your EW comes through for you. I'm looking forward to hearing about a positive outcome as I think such a job would be outside of the skill-set of most of the upcoming Tech Daze attendees! Link to comment
Dennis Andress Posted December 29, 2006 Author Share Posted December 29, 2006 Hi Jamie It could have been a bigger catastrophe if, for instance, were I on the 405 instead of a busy Orange County thoroughfare. But, it still puts a stop to things. The EW company has looked at the bike and are now talking to the dealerships were it has been serviced. Outside of oil changes and swapping shocks when the Ohlins were rebuilt all maintenance has been done by a dealer. I think my records are sufficient --- we'll see soon enough. How's that floor heat system working out? Link to comment
Fasterpill Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 Engine Slayer! I bet BMW would spit if they saw your avatar. Link to comment
Dennis Andress Posted December 30, 2006 Author Share Posted December 30, 2006 Engine Slayer! I bet BMW would spit if they saw your avatar. I'm harder on my boots than the engine..... It is rather humbling though, isn't it. Link to comment
KMG_365 Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 Wow, good luck with the repair--and of course not having to eat such a major blow out that a BMW should NOT have been subject to, short of a metallurgical failure (or, mechanical ineptness, I suppose ). [aside] How's that floor heat system working out? Funny you mention that! I just came crawling out from the bowels of the crawlspace (God, I hate that place! ) making the last of the connections to the terminal boards. I haven't got the kitchen/guest room floor in yet, so I just concentrated on the Office/Master Bedroom/.75 Bath. I just did the one circuit/TB a few days ago as I couldn't read any voltage coming out of the transformer (with no load attached! ) and I wasn't sure I hadn't missed something. After a few hours I started seeing a temp differential on the one section of floor!! We just got back from the Gilbert, AZ HOV lane tour yesterday, so today I hooked up the rest of the circuits and they're all getting warm now! : I promised Leslie I'd have us moved back into our own bedroom by Christmas, but with both of us getting sick (me twice! ), I'm running a bit behind schedule--however--I should get the bed re-assembled day-after-tomorrow when I get home from work and we'll be in by 2007! BUT--the floor heat WORKS GREAT!!!!!!!!!! Let me tell you, that tile floor is COLD when the heat is NOT on and it takes many hours for the floor to reach an even full temp--but when it does--WHOOOOOOO BOY!!! A VERY nice 72-73*F all over and since I can never get Leslie to put shoes on in the house, it'll be PERFECT!!!! I can't thank you enough for your help and I'm sorry it took so long to know whether it was all worth it or not! [/aside] Link to comment
Dennis Andress Posted December 30, 2006 Author Share Posted December 30, 2006 Thanks for the update Jamie, someday I may have a chance to install my own system. I'm running a bit behind schedule--however-- Jamie, I'm not sure if describing you as eclectic is fair but its obvious that project management skills would never sink in. Dennis Link to comment
KMG_365 Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 . . . its obvious that project management skills would never sink in. Dennis Oooooh! OUCH!!! Right in the old coin purse! Actually, when I left my career working in construction I was a . . . Project Manager!!! But of course, I wasn't riding 30,000+ miles a year back then and looking for any excuse NOT to work on the project at hand if there was a BMWST.com gathering within a few thousand miles of me!! Let's see . . . crawl under my house sucking clay dust lying on rocks and cursing my fate . . . (usually by myself!!) . . . or riding to a fun and scenic destination with my lovely bride to hang with some awesome folks and ride twisty roads, break bread togtether, swap lies, and toast our conquests and/or riding accomplishments?? Wait, let me think about it . . . I'll get back to you!! Link to comment
SageRider Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 ...crawl under my house... vs ...riding to a fun and scenic destination... Jamie, you seem to be one of the very few with the correct priorities in life. Link to comment
Dennis Andress Posted December 31, 2006 Author Share Posted December 31, 2006 Enjoy the ride!! Link to comment
Dennis Andress Posted January 6, 2007 Author Share Posted January 6, 2007 Time for an update. My extended warranty is with Western Service Contract Corp. I've intentionally not mentioned them by name until I had some idea of what they will do about my claim. A new engine from BMW costs $9500.00, excluding labor. That's more than an '02 KRS with 69000 miles will sell for locally. There's a clause on the back of the EW contract that talks about deducting the salvage value from the Actual Cash Value if the repair cost exceeds 75% of the Actual Cash Value i.e. they could total my bike. I've called them several times in the last three weeks and every time they have been open and upfront about the steps they take in processing a claim. Calls get returned if promised and I have gotten an answer for every question I've asked. Last week they gave me the phone number for an adjuster they thought was assigned to my bike. He returned my call tonight only to tell me I had the wrong person but gave me the number of someone he thought was correct. That person still wasn't correct but he knew the details and told me they are looking for a used engine to replace mine. Now that is cool. I don't know if installing a used engine will cost them less than totaling my bike but I like the fact they still want to fix it. So far I feel that Western Service understands customer service. Dennis Link to comment
Bruce C Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 Dennis That's good to know. I have the same extended warranty carrier. Link to comment
GKRS Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 I haven't had a problem with Western Service, I've had two issues both time they came through with flying colors. The cost of the extended warranty is smaller and they are great. Link to comment
Dennis Andress Posted January 25, 2007 Author Share Posted January 25, 2007 The plan to find a used engine for my bike didn't work. After two weeks of looking and not finding one the adjuster made the decision to have a short block installed. But, first he wanted the head inspected in case a valve was bent by striking the piston. The head was removed late last week and one bent valve was found. Also, the other three valves fail a seal test. The repair estimate was forwarded to the adjuster who responded with a list of what he was authorizing. Brown Motor Works reconciled the difference between the two and told me today that everything is covered!!!! I will, however, pay to have a valve job done on the remaining three cylinders, it just seems like a good idea. Anyway, the parts are on order and the work has been scheduled. It'll be another 2-3 weeks until I get my bike back. Oh what a sweet homecoming that will be!!! Dennis Link to comment
ericfoerster Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 Congrats Dennis I am sure you are ready to get your scooter back. Seems in this case the extended warranty was worth the cash. Link to comment
ESokoloff Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 The plan to find a used engine for my bike didn't work. After two weeks of looking and not finding one..... phew, I guess it's safe to take the K12GT out of the garauge now A bit long in coming but great news indeed Link to comment
RFW Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 Dennis, I saw a 1999 K1200RS that tossed #2 rod through the crank cover. It had been dropped with the engine running about 5K miles before it let loose. The diagnosis was that the oil pump sucked air while it was running on it's right side. Mick This is a late answer to an earler point, but sucking air while on its side with no load is NOT going to result in this sort of problem. The pump sucks air every time you change the oil filter... so what!. The worst that can happen will be some minor bearing wear. It certainly does not cause rods to break and be punched though the case! Link to comment
Dennis Andress Posted January 25, 2007 Author Share Posted January 25, 2007 The plan to find a used engine for my bike didn't work. After two weeks of looking and not finding one..... phew, I guess it's safe to take the K12GT out of the garauge now A bit long in coming but great news indeed Not to worry Eric, I asked the adjuster about using the engine from a "salvage" bike and his response was that he has to be able to get his money back. Link to comment
timmr Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 That's great news Dennis. I'm sure you'll be glad to get the bike back on the road. A trip to the Arizona desert would be a good way to break in that new motor. Link to comment
Fasterpill Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Congrats, Dennis! It's snowing, so no riding for me either. Hope that makes you feel better for waiting... And I don't have the warranty. Hmmm.... Link to comment
sgendler Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Mine has been behaving beautifully, but I lost the extended warranty since I couldn't prove Sam had the bike serviced (I read the small print). Did I miss a PM or something cause I'm pretty sure I could have proved it. I kept receipts for filters and oil and such and jotted mileage on them, and I don't believe they are allowed to require authorized dealer service for routine maintenance unless they have reason to believe that lack of routine maintenance was the cause of the trouble. Receipts are gone in the wake of my divorce, now, though. Sorry. --sam Link to comment
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