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grasslander

The Remus Experiment

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grasslander

Alan, sorry.

 

In an earlier post I noted I was testing the Remus Revolution and full Remus header. First as a Slip-on - then later as the full system. The Revolution has a removable quiet core. View the dyno chart with the core installed. On the stock header I lost 4-5 hp max and screwed the entire range over stock setup. With the core removed, I at least got a whole 1 hp increase. With core removed, that is basically the same as the Grand Prix. You get to save about 70 bucks for the crimped stainless tube (the core) that you'd NEVER use - at least in the slip-on configuration!

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grasslander
With the R1200 ST/RT/R engine with stock mapping, the most improvement will be with a head pipe change. San Jose's testing with a can only change duplicates what has been posted above.

 

Dean, thanks for confirming what Kent and I found. It will be very interesting when we jump on the dyno with the full system. I will be installing the header this weekend... Sound clips and dBa readings to follow. Isn't this fun boys and girls? grin.gif

 

I wonder what would happen if you could run the header with the stock muffler? The bike just get heavier?

BTW: Who's going to do the Staintune and Laser tests?

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RightSpin
This here is the new "me" not responding to your post. I just want to get some credit for moving along and not gawking at the accident I see unfolding in front of me. tongue.gif

 

OMG! I almost soiled myself on that one. lmao.gif

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black99S
Test are in for the Slip-on. I'm not impressed. If you run the slip-on with the core you'll see a loss of 5hp. With the core removed a gain of less that 2hp at 7k and above...

So much for seat-of-the-pants power increase, smoother, more mid-range impressions. Basically you buy aftermarket exhausts for looks and sound quality at the expense of performance. But hey - winter months need projects and bikes need farkles.

 

My 99R11S (OK I had a Z-technik on it) would power away from same year bike with Remus 'race' pipe, Lennyls induct, K&N and 'power' chip.

 

Boyz need toys. If you want to ride - leave it stock and spend the money on gas and tyres.

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1analguy
If you want a loud bike buy a Harley.

 

1) Harleys only get loud when you change the exhausts on them. Mine is, blissfully, whisper-quiet (stock).

 

2) BMW knows more about designing exhausts than any of the mentioned "exhaust" companies.

 

3) K&N air "filters" are, basically, oily rags with holes in them so they can pass air. Unfortunately, those holes also pass dirt, no matter what K&N claims to the contrary. Additionally, the oil which is supposed to attract dirt particles will gradually leach out of the rag and into the airstream, traveling along the intake tract where it can settle, among other places, on those expensive and delicate sensors (MAF, temp, etc.) that tell your computer how to meter your injection. I had this happen to me on one of my cars awhile back. The oil will also tend to "jell" and plug the holes if you store your bike in a cold garage for an extended period. I've also had this happen. After I removed (and trashed!) the K&N, the replacement new stock paper filter felt like a turbo. Don't let 'em fool you...

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NakedRider

This is getting *so* interesting.

 

I've had the full Remus Revolution on my ST for over one year. Mine is still corked up. I'm going to drill out the core today but it's raining so I won't know the impact until maybe tomorrow. Anyway, if the header doesn't change much, given the results of the dyno I could pick up 7 HP just by removing the core. I know my results may be different since I already have the header also but it's worth a shot.

 

Can't wait 'til the 21st...or dry streets.

 

I'm thinking 2 HP either way is hard to notice but 7 should be easy to feel.

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BiggerTwin

I just picked up my 07 R1200RT with the full Remus Revolution Titanium system. It sounds wonderful, looks a bit better without the crossover and catalytic converter, and the motor was smooth as could be from the moment I pulled out of MAX BMW's parking lot. I look forward to the next report with the headers but it really doesn't matter if I gained power or not. I bought it for sound and looks and am very happy with it no matter what the dyno shows.

 

Alan

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grasslander
I decided to change my sound level testing using the new AMA recommended method. 20" on a 45 degree plane from the exhaust opening, with the instrument facing to the rear on the 45 degree angle away from the opening. I re-tested stock using this method. Then the slip on with core and without.

 

Stock:

73 dBa idle, 86 dBa 4K RPM

 

Remus w/ core - stock header:

77 dBa idle, 89 dBa 4k RPM

 

Remus no core - stock header:

81 dBa idle, 92 dBa 4k RPM

 

New Full system dBa tests.

 

Remus full system w/ core:

78 dBa idles, 90 dBa 4k RPM

 

Remus full system no core:

82 dBa idles, 93 dBa 4k RPM

 

I took a 15 mile ride after installing. Man those stainless headers went straw color fast! The Ti can is taking a straw color as well. It starts towards the back of the can and is moving forward. Kind of surprised see the system change color this fast. Especially the can. Sound clips to follow.

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HexST

So it looks like a stock system could get a ticket in Carefree Az. if you are not at idle.

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grasslander

Don't forget - I'm measuring at 20 inches from the source...

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grasslander
I will be installing the header this weekend...

 

Those of you who have installed the Remus headers. Did your system come with a hanger to fix the back of the header to the point where the stock header attached? If not, did you modify the stock hanger to work with the new header's mounting tab? Go without a hanger?

 

Thanks for your input

 

Jim

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BiggerTwin

Jim,

 

I have an RT and the dealer did the installation. I have a hanger where the two pipes meet and nothing else until where the muffler is mounted. Hope this helps.

 

Alan

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NakedRider

Jim,

 

I have a hanger on my ST. From what I remember it came with the pipe.

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Fran

Mine came with the hanger, but as I recall I had to remove the rubber bush from either the bike or the stock hanger, can't remember, however; this step was covered in the instructions I received with the system.

Fran

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NakedRider

I took my "uncorked" ST to work today. Big risk since it was supposed to rain. I stayed dry, however.

 

One thing is for sure there is more initial punch with the core out. One unexpected pleasure - it's smoother. I've always considered the ST/RT/R motor the smoothest of the twins from BMW right now and this just made it even better.

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grasslander

Thanks for the hanger info. Found the darn thing in the bubble wrap I nearly tossed away!

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rous44

While grasslander has given us some very objective and technical information regarding the Remus exhaust, I thought I would do my own expieriment to see if I could "feel" his results.

I removed the baffle from my C/F Revolution. Purely subjective: I noticed no increase in the decibel level. There was a different tone to the exhaust, both at idle and under accerlation. Actually, the sound was better with the insert in place. A raspier, more potent sound.

The motor progressed through the rpms in a more linear fashion, but not more rapidly.

There was more vibration coming through the footpegs and handlebars.

Needless to say, as soon as I got back home, I replaced the insert. Much better sound and as much power as I need.

This was done with the stock headers.

Maybe the money would be better spent on a track school.

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NakedRider
While grasslander has given us some very objective and technical information regarding the Remus exhaust, I thought I would do my own expieriment to see if I could "feel" his results.

I removed the baffle from my C/F Revolution. Purely subjective: I noticed no increase in the decibel level. There was a different tone to the exhaust, both at idle and under accerlation. Actually, the sound was better with the insert in place. A raspier, more potent sound.

The motor progressed through the rpms in a more linear fashion, but not more rapidly.

There was more vibration coming through the footpegs and handlebars.

Needless to say, as soon as I got back home, I replaced the insert. Much better sound and as much power as I need.

This was done with the stock headers.

Maybe the money would be better spent on a track school.

 

Interesting. Mine felt the exact opposite. Did you reset the TPS?

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grasslander
While grasslander has given us some very objective and technical information regarding the Remus exhaust, I thought I would do my own expieriment to see if I could "feel" his results.

I removed the baffle from my C/F Revolution. Purely subjective: I noticed no increase in the decibel level. There was a different tone to the exhaust, both at idle and under accerlation. Actually, the sound was better with the insert in place. A raspier, more potent sound.

The motor progressed through the rpms in a more linear fashion, but not more rapidly.

There was more vibration coming through the footpegs and handlebars.

Needless to say, as soon as I got back home, I replaced the insert. Much better sound and as much power as I need.

This was done with the stock headers.

Maybe the money would be better spent on a track school.

 

Interesting. Mine felt the exact opposite. Did you reset the TPS?

 

NakedRider - remember Rous44 is running the can only. His results could be different. I do believe the ST has a bit less vibes in the 3.5-5k rpm range (alert! that is a feeling no scientific data available) with the full system. BTW track day money is WELL spent in my book and great fun to boot.

 

I went out yesterday for a 2-3 hour ride in the Flint Hills around Eskridge, Alta Vista, Alma. Great time trying out the full system with no core. Wow the thing defintely sounds like it's got sport! With no core, it does wail though at 7k in 4th. Anyway nice smooth ride, mostly rode in the 3.5 - 4.5k range with a few bursts here and there on exits. I gotta tell you, at cruise rpm I don't really hear the exhaust with or without ear plugs. Interesting test - 3/4 full tank with lightly loaded ST tank bag, no bags or box, rolling along in first at 2k rpm, and roll on the throttle hard. Front wheel up at just a bit over 4k rpm. If I had pumped the bars I think it would have lifted in second around 6k. I don't remember it doing that stock under 5.5-6k in any gear... 45+ mpg at the fill up. After I filled I started the bike. I was at idle and the Harley next to me started up and I couldn't have possibly heard the ST at 4k while he idled.

 

When I got back home I slipped the core in and went to the back highway near home for another roll on test. Wheel up at 5.5-6k. I don't know what to make of that but it sure was fun. grin.gif Can't wait till Thursday when the rubber hits the 14lb disk and we find out if it really has more sport or just sounds like it!

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NakedRider

I had much the same experience with mine. Can't hear it over the wind on the freeway - even uncorked.

 

In 2nd at about 5,000 RPM the front end will hop a bit off the ground if you nail it. I don't remember it doing that before. In first I've always been able to power wheelie this thing higher than I could handle it. thumbsup.gif

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grasslander

Tomorrow is full system dyno day - at Topeka on Topeka in Topeka!

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NakedRider

YaaaaHoooo. I can't wait to see the results. clap.gif

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kopov260

Same here, can't wait to see results. Almost ordered the headers, but the Sierra BMW parts guy talked me out of it. He said I'd lose some HP in 4-6K street rpm range and gain some at 7K plus. Tomorrow we'll see who's right.

thumbsup.gif

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grasslander
Same here, can't wait to see results. Almost ordered the headers, but the Sierra BMW parts guy talked me out of it. He said I'd lose some HP in 4-6K street rpm range and gain some at 7K plus. Tomorrow we'll see who's right.

thumbsup.gif

 

Check the chart for can only - no core. That's pretty much what happened in that configuration.

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grasslander

Well Kopov260, you might want to consider that header...

 

All I really care about is that the system looks good, looses a little weight, doesn't void my warranty, and gets a different, hopefully better, sound note than stock. I'm betting that with the core installed it'll be a very small dBa increase and a miniscule actual loudness increase. In return, I'll achieve at least three out of my four goals.

 

It'll be interesting to see if with the full system and no core installed can get at least a 5% increase in power/torque. I'll probably always run the quiet core on the street - definitely while touring. With core installed I expect to see less performance but still my base goal is achieved. But I do run track days and it seems the AMA is OK with 96 dBa or less on a closed course (I wonder if it'll even exceed 92 dBa - of course before I'm done we'll have at least an educated idea of that as well).

 

Drum roll please...

 

With no core on the full system we experienced a 6% HP increase, a 5% torque increase and a small increase everywhere. grin.gif

With the core installed, a small dip at just below 4k. At 4.5k it come back to equal stock.

 

Full System without core:

106.19 HP - 82.36 Torque

81 dBa idle, 92 dBa 4k RPM

Full System with core:

100.86 HP - 78.66 Torque

77 dBa idle, 89 dBa 4k RPM

Stock:

100.26 HP - 78.22 Torque

73 dBa idle, 86 dBa 4K RPM

 

BMW brochure specification:

110 HP - 84.81 Torque

 

R12STLrem.jpg

 

I rode in without the core. Rode home with the core. It is rather interesting how much smoother the bike is without the core over either stock or installed core. There is a marked increased "quickness" with core removed. You can see it as you count to 8k on the dyno runs. Only a 1 dBa increase over the slip on. Kent believes a chip would be good for this application to clean up the fuel map for emissions and fuel economy. I'd love to see one from Remus or Power Commander.

 

On to the charts!

 

DynoRemusFS-SCNC.jpg

Full System: Stock - w/Core - No Core comparison

 

 

DynoRemusFS-SNC.jpg

Full System: Stock vs No Core

 

 

DynoRemusFS-SC.jpg

Full System: Stock vs w/Core

 

 

 

Ok. Summary

 

Don't waste your money on a slip on unless you are buying a full system in pieces, just gotta have the sound, or you need to save money on a replacement.

 

Full system no core goal - Achieved.

Sound levels WELL within the AMA closed or open course requirements.

Corked - livable performance that's very stock like, gives up a little weight , lower temps, really nice low frequency note, and looks great.

I won't immediately doubt San Jose BMW claims. They look to be pretty spot on. If they say Remus is the one to use on Hex I'm inclined to believe them!

thumbsup.gif

 

So... guess I won't toss it in the trash compactor. I'm happy Remus. If Remus or PC comes out with chip they'll get my money immediately.

OK let the rhetoric begin!

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Firefight911

Psst, Wunderlich already has a map module available!!!

 

Awesome job. Clear, concise and FACTUAL!

 

Thanks for being the guinea pig for the masses. Real world without a marketing agenda! thumbsup.gif

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HexST

I believe the wunderlick maping system is the same as Techlusion I have been in touch with them but have not pullled the trigger so far. Dean do you know if tests have been done with the techlusion? i have asked Heli in the past and he said Rhinewest was not going to make a "chip" for the 1200 as the onboard computer would take over and bypass a chip.

Edited by HexST

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grasslander

My understanding of the Techlusion devices is that you can tune for say the high or the mid or the low. If you choose high, it has effect on all areas. The three seperate areas can't be compensated for independently? Is that correct?

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Highway41

Thanks for documenting the install and results. It does look good and sounds great with the core installed. It will be interesting to see what a chip adds if you go that route.

Can you post some pics front and rear? I like the no crossover look.

Thanks again. Bill

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Firefight911

I think you are correct. It states that it adds fuel to the current factory mapping. It offers different modes depending on where you are looking for the gain.

 

Tough to navigate between the english and german versions to get the clear answer. There is a video on their site, so it says, that I was unable to find which supposedly shows how it works.

 

confused.gifconfused.gifconfused.gif

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kopov260

Well, I think Remus owes you big time and so as I am. I am picking up that phone and ordering the headers today. Thanks for the wealth of info. thumbsup.gif

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grasslander
Thanks for documenting the install and results. It does look good and sounds great with the core installed. It will be interesting to see what a chip adds if you go that route.

Can you post some pics front and rear? I like the no crossover look.

Thanks again. Bill

 

Here you go.

 

R12STFrem.jpgR12STRrem.jpgR12STRFrem.jpgR12STLFrem.jpg

R12STLRrem.jpg

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Deans BMW

Thanks grasslander, you have confermed what I have been saying for over a year.

 

If you guys want a deal on Remus, all you have to do is to call San Jose BMW, ext 5 (parts and accessories) and ask for a "Deans Deal" on Remus and you will be plesently suprised on the system landed at your door, they do it as a favor to me as I was the founder of SJBMW and hired Chris the current owner. I have a lot of fun with this and I get nothing out of it. thumbsup.gif

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Fran

Thanks Grasslander,

I have had a full system on my 05 RT for almost a year now, which was installed in pretty much the same manner yours was. It had always felt to me that the system worked, and you hard work and dedication has proven this to be the case. Thank you and I second the motion that Remus owes you big time.

Fran

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Buckster

Appreciate your effort Grasslander... I'm not familiar with dyno results but seems that there is a significant increase in both HP and torque below 3K comparing the no core full system to stock. Am I reading this correctly? This would greatly enhance riding impressions in my opinion.

Waiting to put on the Remus header (bought used, already brown!) until I have the header and connector piece ceramic coated.

Anyone have suggestions on coating companies? Buckster

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Fran

I have used Jet-Hot Coatings for some smaller stuff, all work was firs rate, and still holding up. Just my 2 cents.

Fran

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NakedRider

Thanks for the report and all the work. From what I remember there was another member from this site that had an RT with the same set up and the same dyno result although I don't think he did his in stages like you did. 106 HP is only 4 short of the the S. Not bad at all.

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Highway41

Looks sharp, especially from the tail. cool.gif

Bill

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Firefight911

Best part of all of those pictures is the color choice!! Silver/Blue! Yea Baby!!!!! thumbsup.gifthumbsup.gif

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Dick_at_Lake_Tahoe_NV

The performance shown on the Dyno tests that impressed me most is the Low RPM torque. With the Remus system the torque stays high down to about 2300RPM, whereas with the stock exhaust it falls dramatically at 3000 RPM.

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MikeB

<<Doesn't suprise me at all. I'm sure that some very talented engineers at BMW spent a considerable amount of time and money tuning the engine/exhaust system to provide the best overall performance.>>

Of course, all their (BMW engineers) engineering was spent extracting the best performance with no noise, these guys (Remus) are extracting better performance with more noise. So, it stands to reason that there is more power to be gained from the stock set up, just with more noise.

 

In regards to buying a HD if you want noise, I prefer having it both ways, my way, good sound and perfect handling and comfort.

 

Life is interesting, "to each his own".

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Slumgullion

I have the full remus on my ST and was really surprised to see the difference with the core out. I have ridden mine with the core out and no discernable diference from my seat of the pants observations. However the dyno does not lie!

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kopov260

Just installed the headers and now have the complete system. Man what a difference, there should be more than just 1 db difference between the full system and the slip-on which I had before. And of course the power, I am really impressed. These 6 hp make a lot of difference. Now it sounds and performs how it suppose to. Thanks again. thumbsup.gifthumbsup.gifthumbsup.gif

Edited by kopov260

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dmk
The performance shown on the Dyno tests that impressed me most is the Low RPM torque. With the Remus system the torque stays high down to about 2300RPM, whereas with the stock exhaust it falls dramatically at 3000 RPM.

 

Dick,

 

Dyno operators typically doesn't roll on the throttle hard until about 3k rpm. I think what you are seeing is that the dyno guy went WFO at lower rpm during the Remus run than the stock run.

 

Dave

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grasslander
Psst, Wunderlich already has a map module available!!!

 

I think the problem with using this device is it really isn't the correct tool to address what I would want to improve here. If you look at the dyno charts and study the fuel mapping you will see more of an over rich condition in the lower RPM range then a leaning in the upper range (though a bit of extra fuel up top might not be bad).

 

As I understand it, Techlusion (wunderlich?) adds fuel. If you want to add fuel for the 6k region, you will probably make it richer everywhere. I suspect at least an economy hit in the cruise range. If it didn't effect anything but the 6k and above for the lean condition, I can't see how it would or can be adjusted for an existing rich condition else where. I'd prefer something like a Power Commander so it could properly compensate for over rich and let you address a lean condition. The goal here is to make the fuel mapping as close to optimum as possible. Not necessarily to increase performance as much as to make it as efficient as possible!

 

When you wanted to cure a surging issue, as was the case on the oilhead due to lean running conditions, simply adding fuel for a certain operating/area condition was ok.

 

If I'm off base here please correct and educate me.

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eaglemike

+1

It would indeed be nice if the mapping on the stock system could be easily modified ala PCIII. I had one on my Strom 1K, and it sure made life better. Many others have reported the same. As you noted, there are often areas needing a little less fuel, and the PC was good at doing that.

 

all the best,

 

Mike

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Dick_at_Lake_Tahoe_NV
The performance shown on the Dyno tests that impressed me most is the Low RPM torque. With the Remus system the torque stays high down to about 2300RPM, whereas with the stock exhaust it falls dramatically at 3000 RPM.

 

Dick,

 

Dyno operators typically doesn't roll on the throttle hard until about 3k rpm. I think what you are seeing is that the dyno guy went WFO at lower rpm during the Remus run than the stock run.

 

Dave

 

Thanks, that makes sense, otherwise that's a huge difference.

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Dick_at_Lake_Tahoe_NV

Maximum HP can be attained with Air/Fuel right near 12.5:1 and I think that's what we're seeing with the Dyno test at WOT. Best efficiency occurs with Air/Fuel 14.7:1 and that's what I would expect to occur when we're cruising at some fixed RPM and not at WOT. Comments?

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