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Looking at The Difference between Street and Track Riding Skills


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Very Valuable Background

John R posted a link to a most valuable, very most valuable essay by the deservedly much vaunted Keith Code about learning to ride better. I'm very grateful for that. I think you would be well served to understand the ideas Keith presents there.


I very strongly suggest that you read that essay now, even re-read it now, and focus on his point of separating Fantasy from Reality about your Riding. I'm going to be dealing heavily with that point in the following.





A Life Of Fantasy

I've been fortunate to live a Fantasy life, one in which many of the dreams of my youth actually came to pass. I put myself where they would be, and events - the results of the actions of others - and my determination and hard work to capitalize on the opportunities those two things presented, brought about what resulted. Among those things, I'm really greatly fulfilled by my experiences in Flying and Racing. I've done both at the highest levels, with the greatest of people, particularly Teachers. Perhaps because my mother was an Educator, and ideas and feelings from that rubbed off, I've always gravitated to where Teaching, Learning, is taking place, both on the giving and receiving end.


I love racing. Cars or Bikes. I love to Manage. I love to Manage Motion.


For a short time, my skills at that were among those at the top of the racing world. New racers came along who were better skilled.


But, some saw in me the ability to apply those skills, and do so invariably. It was the realm of the Endurance Racer. They also saw the ability to relate those skills, to tell how to make "that" vehicle go faster, and quite surprising to me, how to make that vehicle more able to be driven faster. I was a preferred team member.


Smart folks, much smarter than me, herded me into symposiums, seminars, classes, and tutoring about racing. I spent many years teaching, coaching, researching, tutoring, mentoring, learning to train, and teaching and mentoring again. I wanted to be valuable in that realm of Racing. Whatever else I was involved with in life, that Racing was always present. Only recently have I set aside that forty year life interest.


Today, I Ride.


God, how Magnificent that is.


And, it's still a world of a young man's Fantasy.



The Reality of Approaching Le Source Hairpin

My introduction to Motorcycling was very interesting. I have and do share many tales about it. One is particularly pertinent here.


I had just come from the 1000km GT Race at Spa Francorchamps in Belgium. Back then, there was no "bus stop" chicane before the current pits, and we drifted the new rear engine Ferrari GT car through the bend there and on down the hill to the Le Source hairpin at 175 mph. What was becoming NASA had instrumented racing drivers in the beginning of their telemetry experiments for the astronaut program. Under braking for corners like Le Source, the heart rate was up to 200, our temperature rose to 106, and blood pressure was unreadable. The skinny tires, and the thin and small diameter first version disc brakes, and 175 mph, had eyes open… really, really wide!!!


What was felt in those 15 seconds or so of deceleration was nothing in comparison to what I felt the first time I ripped my Kawasaki down toward the first downhill hairpin on the back side of the San Gabriel Mountains north of Los Angeles on my first, serious application of a motorcycle to Street Riding!!! Jesus, Mary, and Joseph!! I'm a mortal man!!!


In my twenties, for the first time, wholly in light of being on the receiving end of the heaviest concentration of flak that had ever been assembled by man as I dove on the Ho Chi Minh Trail over 180 times, my mortality, the vulnerability of that mortality to the vagaries of The Universe, became blatantly apparent. The Hard Stuff, the Universe of The Hard Stuff, was very much a danger to me who was wholly made of Soft Stuff, when I was approaching it… At Speed.


I saw the world was full of Hurt. And I was Naked.


Right then, it became VITAL that I separate out this Fantasy of Racing from this thing I was now doing - Riding a motorcycle… on The Street.


That San Gabriel corner was my "Le Source", the Source of what has kept me alive and well for 30 years of Motorcycling.


I simply had to, absolutely had to, root out of my Riding, those aspects of Racing that so monumentally endangered that Mortality.



The Concepts of Racing

Racing is not "going fast". It is a contest of one person among others, to cover a distance greater or faster than those Others.


Racing does require "going fast". One traverses a course quickly, using skills of handling a vehicle, and judgment of applying those skills to the conditions present to accomplish that. While that concept could be applied by a person to Street Riding, Racing has the imperative to do that to the maximum possible: The Rider/Driver is bent on doing what it takes to cover that ground as quickly as possible - every second. And, the Learning Experience is devoted to that Maximum Effort. And, it is devoted to raising the determination to do precisely that and nothing but that.


Then, Racing adds the factor, "…faster than those Others." One applies hard won increments of shaving time from travel, say, on those last feet approaching a corner, directly better than that other guy is doing right now, in order to get by him/her or get away from them.


One is practicing Maximums. And, one is practicing Maximums better than anyone.



The Aviator's Game Face

I can recall clearly donning my flight gear, really light stuff except for the boots in the intense heat faced in Viet Nam in that non-air conditioned cockpit. It started to get real quiet as the suit and harness got wrapped tightly. Thought changed.


Walking to the aircraft it got even more quiet "inside" as I glanced at the briefing notes I'd made for the mission, and then always stared at that giant attack plane for the many hundred yards of approach to it - grasping its shape, it's mass, its whole being. It's purpose.


Sitting in the cockpit, crew chief draping straps where they belonged, I'd reach to the glare shield for my helmet atop the gun sight. Pulling it down over my ears, snugging it down on my closely cropped hair, and threading the chinstrap, the final increment of quiet descended.


My heart rate fell to a state well below resting level. I did not know my girl friend's phone number. Nor did I know my checking account balance, the date of my birth, the color of beef gravy, nor the smiles on my childhood friends' faces. I was about to Fly. I was about to Fight. All else receded into a receptacle which I did not know had a lid or not, nor whether such lid if present might ever be opened again. Its contents may never have existed, for all the view was only of this thing pending, and now being started.



It's called Pre-flight. After the examination of the aircraft, and gaining confidence it would aviate and remain aviated successfully, and was configured and then set up to do its pending job, comes the same process for its controller, the Pilot. What was faced, even in a ferry flight from field to field, is so intensely fraught with potential Harm, that all mental constructions not germane to it must, absolutely must, be set aside. In that military scenario, all things we'd call Civilian Life are set aside. So are all things Personal. So are all things about even How To Fly. There needed to be present ONLY Flying, and Fighting.


Hmmmph. Sounds like Keith: Only Flying; Not How To Fly.


What's up with a Street Rider? Is Street Riding filled with bank balances, 401Ks, Billy's argument with the school teacher, how to get the next raise? Is it filled with smooth 50 foot wide race track surfaces? Is it filled with the need, real need to cover ground at a maximum rate? Is it composed of Beating Joe?


What's the appropriate Game Face for a Street Rider? What's the appropriate Realm of Attention, and what is REALLY in that realm?


What's Reality, here on The Street? What's left, what's aside that… is Fantasy.



Riders Headed To a Track School

I live near Willow Springs International Raceway. I ride to and by it often.


At certain times there are lots of Riders out here. Makes me smile. I'm not alone. Or, am I?


I can recall as a kid, right now I'm thinking of a time near Christmas when I was out in the living room putting decorations together. I recall looking up at my parents in the kitchen, busily applying themselves to one thing or another out there. I wished so much they'd put that aside and join me in this happy pursuit. Oh, that's a feeling I get sometimes around my girlfriend. I sometimes wish she and I could finish what were up to individually and get back to what we do best - doing the same thing together and sharing that magnificent communion we're most capable of with each other.


Quite often I have the same kind of feeling when I encounter Riders out here. Particularly the ones headed off to a track school early on a Saturday morning. In our Riding, we aren't up to the same things. I feel a bit alone.


To me, these folks are easy to spot. Leather-clad aboard their Sport Bikes, they are zipping and zooming along in ways I do not feel. Out through the twisty roads and the long straights of his country they are acting like, acting, not being, Racers. They don't "race" very well. Their speed through the populated farm country is inappropriate. They dive into blind, dirt strewn corners with foolish abandon, and strike lean angles that that make recovery from surprise encounters impossible. Their entries are too wide, their apexes too tight and always their bikes are settled only momentarily.


Standing back and looking on this overall, I'm prone to think, "These folks just don't get it." Well as Racers, they sure really could use the gains available at a track school. It's obvious they don't get that part of "it". But, darn, unlike me at all, there really are not out "here" with me - hardly one bit.


I can spot all kinds of things that are not here with me: That need for the last increment of entry speed; That last degree of lean; That upshift at redline to a top level gear. I see too, Doubt. I see Inconfidence. I see the need to beat Joe.


I'm out here on The Street. But, I'm seeing Racing. I'm seeing Personal Stuff, not so far removed from Oh So Grown Ups motoring along, sitting tall and haughty in their wide saddles, dragging with them their 401Ks, paid up insurance policies, and So Much Care they maximize risk management and don't commit the social faux pas reducing their family income by crashing. None of that is Street Riding. None of that is the Realm of Street Riding.


I can see they don't know what "it" is. They can't or haven't separated the various "its" of general life, personal life, racing, Street Riding. Doing one thing and having present thoughts and motivations of another thing is not "reality". It's a fine definition of Fantasy.


I feel kind of alone.


.KIETH, please get across to these kids they need to separate Fantasy from Reality.


Then, I'll try to get across to them the Thoughts, and the Skill Sets germane to the Reality of Street Riding.



A Query By a Dear Friend

A dear friend, a dear, dear friend, approached me about attending a track school. Alas, in this case rather than being elated, my heart sank.


I replied expressing several ideas. I think the most important one here was along the lines:

"Why do people want to go to track school? Well they want to ride 'faster'?


"You know what? You know what I tell most of them?


"Hell, you're already riding faster than is a danger to you now. Why do you want to go faster??!!


"Maybe you ought to lean how to be in control of you and your motorcycle first.


"Maybe instead of learning how to make a bike go faster in the pristine conditions of a race track, you'd be better served to learn how to tell, and then come to understand what's going on right here on The Street, and the skills to handle those things you potentially face every day.


"Among the first of those is how to control a motorcycle. And before that's mastered, you'd better be able to control you who has to control the motorcycle.


"Then, you've got good skills to bring to the track. Then, you've got the good sense to figure out what of the things you lean at the track are really appropriate to bring to the street."


Now, I'm not talking about a neophyte Rider. This person is a Good Rider. They don't crash. They don't endanger me.. much. And they don't have Close Calls - that they are aware of.


Get it? In many ways, they are a Marginal Rider. It's easy to understand that concept when looking at Some Harley Guy. He racks up a grand total of 1,250 miles a year, 25 miles at a time riding to and from The Meeting Place. He gets there and back. Every time. I mean "every time" qualifies as a "Good Rider" in my book.


But, heck, does this cat see radiator fluid on the crosswalk lines at intersections? Or, how well can they stop that long fork crate for a mini-van blocking the entire road at a driveway out onto the middle of a blind curve? Did they ever learn the BEST way to handle inadvertently entering a corner too fast? How much do they love their rear brake? Or "over-love" it?


How do they operate under STRESS? The stress that inevitably arises in Street Riding?


Is this Harley Joe ready for a track school? Will they come home from a track school better served? Or will they be emboldened to further overstep their limited Basic Skill Set?



Yep, there's Keith talking: Basics. Get the Basics down. Track or Street. Keith is talking to us all there.


Motorcycling is about Balance. The Rider goes about actively creating Balance of the motorcycle in motion. Control of the motorcycle is all about Creating Balance - making the bike achieve a balance in any situation - at will.


How far along are we at that?


How much do we need to think about doing that? Most of the time? None of the time? Only in uphill parking lots? Or only when the surface is loose or slippery?


How well trained is The Rider? How well can The Rider "cowboy up" when The Street Environment suddenly throws up one of its Surprises? How much "thinking" will they need to do to handle Surprises? Will they have the time to "think" themselves out of Danger?


Does going faster on a race track help with those things? Those always needed things?


Sure, I want my friend, my dear, dear friend, to learn better about what corners are composed of, about how to make the bike strike appropriate arcs through them, about becoming comfortable at greater lean angles. But, I know those things can be taught and their basics gained, and then practiced every day - far away from the race track.


And, away from The Race Track, and the Racing School, they will also be way from the impetus to seek maximums that are wholly inappropriate to Street Riding.


And, away from the track, they can devote themselves to being able to handle a motorcycle when through Speed meeting Condition, on the street or track, it starts to go to hell in a hand basket. And it will do so out there in their track school at some point. Just as it even more assuredly will out on the street!!


Whether track or street, should I have urged them away from learning the skills that can bring that situation back away from a crash? Or should I have urged them to strengthen their Basic Skills, and develop the judgment about what to apply from their "entire street and track skills bag", what is going to serve them best out here… On The Street Where They Live?


What is Fantasy? What is Reality?


What serves each one best?



A View Of Positive Things

I look on Keith Code as a friend. He's bright, smart, and a loving and caring man. He is devoted to helping Riders ride better on the track. His approach to dealing with Basics on upward allows transference of information to street use. He has much to offer us.


I love to spend time with the Pridmores - and their various staff. They ride and teach well, and much can be learned from them. Reg and I disagree on many points about street motorcycling. That's probably true of our views on wine too - so it amounts to a "So what?" I'd never steer anyone away from gaining experience with them.


Freddy Spencer is a Racer. He's fun, funny, and full of insight into handling a motorcycle. But, would you really want to follow him around on the street?


And that's my point. G** Dammit!! Please, apply the majority of your concentration to learning how to ride your motorcycle in the Public environment. It's full of dangers to your Wellbeing that don't exist on race tracks, and those dangers are not well met by the special skills one can overly concentrate upon to do well in a Track environment.


This Board has opened up my Motorcycling life. Its people have opened up this thing I love so much to depths and extents beyond my hopes, and far beyond my ability to experience all I now can see of it - and they will expand it even further. I love each and every one of you nearly four thousand participants in this wonderful realm of Motorcycling Community we've created together. Someday, I want to share that with each and every one of you, and do so directly. That's my selfishness of it.


To that end, I want to make clear to you all an offer that's always been on the table:

Come join me in The Parking Lot.


From there, we'll Get On Down The Road. There's much we can share about our Riding as Street Riders. And, much we can learn together.


Someday, I may even do a track school with you.



Very best wishes.



Oh. A tip:


If you want to go faster, then spend less time Cornering. Also, spend less time braking. Spend more time Accelerating.


Just remember that unlike The Track, it's prudent on The Street to limit the amount of time you spend Accelerating too.


-- rdf

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I think there's some great stuff in there, Dick. Thanks for sharing them. A few thoughts came to mind as I read it.


1) I don't see it as an either/or proposition, though. Why not develop skills on the street and on the track? They translate well in both directions. In fact, Code spends a significant amount of time talking about how each skill relates to street riding.


2) Of the people I've ridden with on the track, whether I knew them beforehand or just met them that day, all of them but one have emerged from their track time far better riders, with far better judgment. The other cotinues to press the limits on public roads and the track time has swollen his head.


3) You can press the boundaries more on the track because of the conditions. That allows real world experience in pulling a machine back under control, wherever it happens.


4) Unless someone carves out a full day and pays a whopping fee, they might not concentrate on any skill development.


I agree that there's nothing magic about a track day, and there are idiots that attend track days just like their are idiots that ride the street. But take a poll of 100 riders who've done even one day, and you'll find less than a handful that wish they'd spent a day in the parking lot instead.


For any of you who want to work with a professional instructor on the street, check out Lawrence Grodsky's classes here.


Want to join us at Willow in April? You mentioned that you live near there. Looks like we have at least six going so far, and it would be fun to ride with you. If nothing else, join us for dinner, probably that Saturday night. I'll put up a post at a later date. It would be good to see you again. smile.gif

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Biff Motor Works

Dick, thanks for the insightful post, lots to digest there. I appreciate the time you take to compose your posts, it's obvious you have spent alot of time thinking about, and living, the subject matter. I try to respect my bike and not get caught up in the whole street racing thing, and by and large I have been successful. It isn't easy and has come after much maturity, and alot of riding. There are times and places that are more appropriate than others to do this, finding these is the challenge. Thanks again for your insightful post.


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David, you make good counter-points too.


I very much agree Track and Street training are not an either/or proposition. The track certainly allows expansion of experience, gaining deeper understanding of some portion of what a Street Rider should be able to whip out and do when wanted, and certainly when needed.


A point of mine is the underlying skills, and then the basis of those things can be learned before heading to the track, and that the track -- as used in a track day or track school -- can play little or no part in learning the bulk of skills vitally needed by the Street Rider. And in fact, track experience, and reliance upon it for a sense of wellbeing, can lead the Rider to skip over the basic skills that comprise the Basic Street Survival Skills.


You point out: "But take a poll of 100 riders who've done even one day, and you'll find less than a handful that wish they'd spent a day in the parking lot instead."


Well, yeah. Put that way, we see that Parking Lot Time (and not all training in Basics is confined to parking lots) gets viewed as having to eat the cole slaw rather than sinking one's teeth into the fried chicken or succulent battered fish. That's a pretty poor view.


I'd rather people view track time, instructed or not, as chocolate sundae or cherries jubilee, after a sound and nutritious meal of what will really fortify them. People wanting to get and keep their bodies fit, to attain and maintain Wellbeing, seek Education, Nutrition, and Exercise.


Those three things, Education, Nutrition, and Exercise can be likened to riding help too. But it's entirely possible to skew the direction of those things in directions which are not wholly appropriate to a person's life. Emphasis can be given to those things such that one builds a great athlete, say a basketball player. Yet, would such a course be good for "the common man"?


Then too, we see so many professional athletes, movie stars too, politicians and other public figures, who train and work really hard on FANTASY skills, and skip over the basic human skills, Reality, that would cause many of us never to allow them in our homes. Using the same building blocks, they never built good People.


It's EXCITING to go to the track. It's THRILLING. There's a tremendous sense of freedom gained. And good for that.


Learning, practice, and skill building at what will most often keep us alive in Street Riding need not be looked upon as a six hour class in CPR... in Braille. grin.gif It TOO is Exciting, and even Thrilling.


To which I respond with: "Ask any of the last 20 folks I worked with if they'd trade what they leaned in that parking lot and then on the Street, and now can do MASTERFULLY to keep their lives and Wellbeing intact, if they would trade that for a day at the track."


No, and you were right, it's not about a P***ing Contest.


But, I do think it's about Sensible deployment of our personal resources. And where do the Big Payoffs come from.


Guys like you, the ones who benefit so greatly from track time, have already had the good meal of building street skills -- the Basic Control Skills. And, you continue to build them. You built the sound basis that can be appropriately gilded with that special set of intense control skills expanded and refined at the track.



As for Cherries Jubilee with you and the boys? Well, I'm not certain a track session right then will make sense in my schedule. But DINNER always fits in, silly. grin.gifgrin.gif


I too look forward to getting together again.



And thanks too for pointing out Lawrence Grodsky. He too does amazing work for people who want to stay alive and have fun.



Best wishes.

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Thanks for the good dialogue, Dick. So, we'll count on you for dinner...and hope you change your mind about the track day. Hey, if you ride your own bike, it's less than $400! smile.gif


Two other thoughts came to mind.


For me, personally, the track day is learning algebra, and the subsequent street riding is solving problems with that algebra. In other words, I think about those lessons learned all the time. And I practice, practice, practice. What I learned on a track helps me know WHAT to practice, just like a session with you would in a parking lot.


Second, we shouldn't miss the fact that Code, for instance, uses the parking lot extensively for lessons. All of the specially equipped bike exercises are done in a large parking lot, as are all the body positioning exercises in Level 3. So he'd certainly agree about the value of combining them.


You would have enjoyed an impromptu session Christine Davis and I had at El Paseo. In this case we tried an experiment, me riding behind her with brief but pointed directions on body positioning, steering inputs, etc. In just a half hour the difference in her riding was palpable. It won't last without practice, but it was sort of a combination of track/street stuff.

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God, what good stuff you point out there, David.


Don't ever give up the Practice, Practice, Practice, buddy. But also, don't ever give up Preach, Preach, Preach.


Noble Ideals are not attained to by those lacking Hope, Vision, Determination, and Exertion.


More modest ideals are attained to only by the same tools.



See you down the road, Friend. Riding Well.

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Dick and David,


Thank you so much for your insight. The quality of information I gather here (the site) consistantly makes me wonder if I've not paid my subscription fees. (which I'm behind on I'm sure). I've come to think of many of these posts as "Post" graduate studies.


Mr. Frantz, if you are ever near a parking lot in Knoxville I can start a sign up sheet with me at the top. Mr. Baker, perhaps I can weasel my way into your group next April.


Once again,

Thanks to you both.

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Heres one for ya: Concentration + Technique + Preciseness + Consistancy = Smoothness.....Practice building concentration.Then concentrate on the proper way to ride and on being consistantly smooth.

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Heres one for ya: Concentration + Technique + Preciseness + Consistancy = Smoothness.....Practice building concentration.Then concentrate on the proper way to ride and on being consistantly smooth.

Thanks for a great thought.


Boy, that "formula", very much outlines my approach to Riding overall, my "path" to learning and integrating a Skill into my riding, and what I try to relate to others.


I use "Attention" as a concept rather than "Concentration" because it allows workability -- something to think with that easily allows change. Attention is what is "concentrated". The "game" of riding is the appropriate shifting of attention from one thing to another.


Technique is both a "subject" and an "object" in that scheme. As a Subject, there's a technology for gaining and applying attention. Then, Attention is placed the other technologies, Skills or areas of Skills like Cornering, Low Speed/Parking Lot Handling, City Street Riding, Sport Touring Skills, and so on.


Learned Skills start with "no ability to do it", and rise to some ability. The gains are always in Precision of executing known actions. Expertness, is always composed of the degree of Precision with which a action can be executed. It's other major aspects are the Judgment of what skills to apply and when, and then, the Readiness with which a skill can be brought to bear.


Consistency is a kind of Precision of Precision. The goal is a precisely done action. How "prevalent" is that Precision? One kind of gets more precise at BEING precise -- often viewed as Discipline. This is easier to see in the case of skills that are Monitors, or Watchfulness, or kind of "ongoing skills" -- like policies to maintain following distances, or "always" use Optimum Lines. There, Consistency is the degree of "always" being Watchful, or "True To The Policy". A slightly different concept of Consistency stems from recurring training, the "overall ability" to bring an infrequently used skill (like maximum braking) forward when needed, and then execute it with high precision.


Smoothness might be interpreted many different ways. "Without clutter of unnecessary action" suits many views. A crash is the opposite of that. "Herky Jerky" movement down the road has lots of "getting back to" a desired path/speed/manner.


What inspires me, is The Educational Process follows that same path or map. One "attends" the subject, placing attention on the "words" describing it, The Idea. Technique then becomes the wielding to one degree or another of The Idea, its Realization, or taking it from concept to factual execution. Then, one Drills up that vestigial ability, higher and higher, getting in place a more and more Precise real world picture of that Ideal, or Idea about a Skill. Consistency then becomes its practice out there on the street -- the Consitent presence of the Skill.


Cool concepts.

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The above is the mantra at Bob Bondurant.

Its interest for me is on the mental side.I find it increasingly easy to "get in the zone".Ya,ya could be living here and riding forever.But I think its a basic ability to concentrate.Blocking out anything that dosen't pertain to the task at hand.

Line,Skill,Brakes is the tried and trued formula at Skip Barber.And wholey agree that you don't go to the next(line to skill,skill to brakes),till you've thoroughly practiced and somewhat perfected the former.And here is where I can start to drive a wedge between trackbased learning and paying ones dues on the street.Its the line.Using the word "safe" while discussing corner carving is a loose affair.Hard to describe,easier shown.But a "safe" line on the street is worlds apart from what wins trophy's on a track.So different are these lines that you'll get seriously scolded practising them on say a trackday.Yet they both could be termed safe.And this ain't about draggin pegs(but may very well be even more aggressive).

I find that there's certain words if mentioned in a conversation about riding and technique that if mentioned...

...."well,there goes the neighborhood".The word safe is like that,its got so many different definitions.

The KC article of thinking "with" controls instead of "about" struck a chord in my general willingness to stay alive ride plan.

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Thanks Dick for that thought provoking post.


I had an opportunity to attend a Doc Wong riding clinic on Nov. 30 and hear Keith Code speak. He covered a lot of what was in the essay you linked to and talked for about 1 1/2 hours followed by an equally interesting 1/2 hour question and answer session. He spoke long about "commitment" - the mental state of concentration and making decisions to do "something" then "do it".


We were scheduled to do parking lot drills in the afternoon using his special demonstrator bikes. We were working on a drill to do braking while downshifting/matching revs sliding two braking fingers over the lever while maintaining constant pressure and blipping the throttle for downshifts. Unfortunately heavy rain cut our day short and none of the special demonstrators were brought out of the trailer.


Keith came over to my small group and demonstrated and talked about the drill as the rain poured. After his short lecture and demonstration I asked him if this was a technique he would use on the street or was this a track only technique. He said why not use it every time you ride and brake before a corner. It is the most effecient way to handle the multiple tasks of slowing and getting into a lower gear - the most complicated task you can do while riding but very efficient once mastered.


The learning never stops - unless I win the motoGP crown this year, then I'll retire grin.gif


Thanks again Dick for your contributions to this DB.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Dick said "From there, we'll Get On Down The Road. There's much we can share about our Riding as Street Riders. And, much we can learn together."


This old street rider is really looking forward to that day!


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