MSF Course: advice needed

[Voyager]

BLUF: I need some options for some useful instruction for riders already MSF basic course certified.

 

I'm in the Army, and though the Army serves to protect democracy, it is not a democracy.

 

Background. The Army already requires MSF basic or advanced course certification, along with valid license endorsement, registration etc. in order to register and operate a motorcycle on the installation. It also mandates the uniform for operation for soldiers on or of an installation (long sleves, gloves, DOT helmet, long pants, over ankle boots, eye protection & bright color day, reflective vest night)

 

Army trends for deaths and injuries on motorcycles recently have brought riders under increasing scrutiny. Mostly this takes the form of motorcycle inspections, identification of proper equipment, briefings and signatures promising compliance with orders instructing the same, etc. etc.

 

Recently though, this trend has taken an upshift into a weekly or monthly training initiative. I'm all for training anyone to be a better rider. Unfortunately the credentials of our selected "trainers" currently amount to "a guy who races".

 

While I'm sure "a guy who races" probably has some insightful experience, I'd like to see what options are out there, first within MSF, then some really road/street applicable stuff.

 

I think track experience is very good, and translates directly to street profficieny, however, given the target audience (19 year old OIF vet. and aspiring stunt rider with brand new Hyabusa) I'm not sure the track is the right place to begin with encouragement of responsible riding.

 

Thoughts?

[motorman587]

BLUF: I need some options for some useful instruction for riders already MSF basic course certified.

 

I'm in the Army, and though the Army serves to protect democracy, it is not a democracy.

 

Background. The Army already requires MSF basic or advanced course certification, along with valid license endorsement, registration etc. in order to register and operate a motorcycle on the installation. It also mandates the uniform for operation for soldiers on or of an installation (long sleves, gloves, DOT helmet, long pants, over ankle boots, eye protection & bright color day, reflective vest night)

 

Army trends for deaths and injuries on motorcycles recently have brought riders under increasing scrutiny. Mostly this takes the form of motorcycle inspections, identification of proper equipment, briefings and signatures promising compliance with orders instructing the same, etc. etc.

 

Recently though, this trend has taken an upshift into a weekly or monthly training initiative. I'm all for training anyone to be a better rider. Unfortunately the credentials of our selected "trainers" currently amount to "a guy who races".

 

While I'm sure "a guy who races" probably has some insightful experience, I'd like to see what options are out there, first within MSF, then some really road/street applicable stuff.

 

I think track experience is very good, and translates directly to street profficieny, however, given the target audience (19 year old OIF vet. and aspiring stunt rider with brand new Hyabusa) I'm not sure the track is the right place to begin with encouragement of responsible riding.

 

Thoughts?

 

I think that the years I have been on this site there have numours different people here. A lot of LEOs, track people and MSF instructors. I believe that the track talk that you read are guys that want more than the MSF. I too have been to track day in 2002, and learned and had a great time. One of the many reason why I became a motorcycle insructor (MSF/Police) was to better myself.

 

In the state of Florida a person under 21 must take a MSF course. My thought about a 19yoa on a busa should be like in Germany where I grew up and I had to grow up with the cc. 16yoa, moped, and 17 a 50cc and then at 18 a motorcycle. I did not get my driver license until 18, but had a moped and than a 50cc before getting a motorcycle. Just my 02 cents worth.

[Foot]

I think track experience is very good, and translates directly to street profficieny, however, given the target audience (19 year old OIF vet. and aspiring stunt rider with brand new Hyabusa) I'm not sure the track is the right place to begin with encouragement of responsible riding.

 

Thoughts?

 

Take a 19yr old that just came out of a war zone and try to convince him the "busa" he is about to get on is more dangerous than the war he just left is a tall order.

 

You know the Army is "BIG" on "Training, documented Training" Its CYA for them, not the biggest help to the soldiers.

 

Speaking as a 1SG, a 19yr old and a busa will get my immediate attention. We as a riding comunity owe it to these kids to try and help train them. Thats not saying that they will listen, but we need to try.

 

I think the MSF is a good start, a track day with "Good instruction" will help, but the bottom line and the hardest thing is teaching personal responsibility to these kids.

 

Alan

[SCOTTinNJ]

I find that the more I ride on a track, the SLOWER I go on the street. I know that the street is a dangerous place and the chance to ride at my limits is only a track day away.

 

Perhaps providing these kids with a safe place to "race" or ride aggressively would help. If the installation has an open parking lot, a course can be set up very easily with cones. The tighter the course the better. That might also promote the riding of dual sport type motorcycles and not crotch rockets. Dual sports are much more linear in power delivery and less powerful to begin with.

 

I don't think you are going to stop these guys from going all out somewhere. The best you'll do is to provide a safe place for it.

 

Best of luck to you and the new motos. We need to keep these guys alive, both at war and back home.

[Voyager]

Take a 19yr old that just came out of a war zone and try to convince him the "busa" he is about to get on is more dangerous than the war he just left is a tall order.

 

I couldn't agree more.

 

You know the Army is "BIG" on "Training, documented Training" Its CYA for them, not the biggest help to the soldiers.

 

This is my problem with the current "program". Soldiers view it as punitive and legalistic, an environment more likely to produce rebellion and non-compliance than education or responsible riding.

 

Speaking as a 1SG, a 19yr old and a busa will get my immediate attention. We as a riding comunity owe it to these kids to try and help train them. Thats not saying that they will listen, but we need to try.

 

What do you think about a "bike day"? Not a safety day, but a voluntary fun oriented event with a responsible ride incorporated. Personally, I'm not much on group riding, but I also seldom turn down a chance to ride, hang out with riders, or talk about riding. Maybe this would be a good low threat forum to mentor some new young riders.

 

Perhaps providing these kids with a safe place to "race" or ride aggressively would help.

 

I think this is a good point. Maybe the track is the best place to demonstrate responsible riding AND replace some of the "taboo" with some humbling experience (and adrenaline of course).

 

So, is there a good track course near Savannah?

[SCOTTinNJ]

This will give you a good start.

[Jim Moore]

We get a lot of young military guys in the MSF course I teach. Most of them are on their way to get Ninjas, or Gixxers, or whatever. I always tell them, "Remember, Osama Bid Laden wants you dead. Don't do his job for him." That normally slows them down for five minutes or so.

 

There is a track called Roebling Road near Savannah. A guy named Frank Kinsey teaches a school there. It's a little pricy, but maybe you can get the Army to chip in for part of the cost.

[Voyager]

There is a track called Roebling Road near Savannah. A guy named Frank Kinsey teaches a school there. It's a little pricy, but maybe you can get the Army to chip in for part of the cost.

 

Thanks Jim. That's kind of what I had in mind. I see what you mean by pricey though. I'll see about a "group rate" and pitch the cost/benifit to my boss.

[MikeB60]

Sid,

I work for the Army in the office responsible for the motorcycle safety policy. I always cringe when I hear about a MANDATORY refresher training conducted by someone who has been riding "since I was two years old" or someone who "races". Oh well! Jennings GP is not far and is another option. http://www.jenningsgp.com/ I'm sure you know about the Army's Motorcycle Mentorship Program as well, if not shoot me a PM and I'll help you with the details.

[TampaJim]

See if you can get somebody to loan you some FF helmets and jackets that have been crashed. Instructor at an advanced course I attended brought 3 in , set them down in front and it made quite an impression. Some of the 1/2 and no helmet folks were converted.