Jump to content
Firefight911

R12 series final drive fluid swap (lots of pics!!)

Recommended Posts

Selden
Tom Cutter recommended Castrol 80-90W for the rebuilt box. His opinion was that going to a heavier (let alone 75W250) gear oil was fraught with all sorts of risks. He said (paraphrasing) "heavier isn't always better, i.e. there a certain amount of protection that comes from the splash effect" of a lighter oil, and that BMW engineers have engineered the Getrag transmissions for 80-90W, not 75W-250.

My understanding is that with a multigrade oil, the first number is the base viscosity, while the second is the "equivalent" viscosity at high temperature, achieved by additives. Therefore, 80-9W would be the heavier of the two.

 

Here's a quote from a Valvoline site:

 

Multigrade oils typically begin as base oils, such as 10W. Then viscosity-index modifiers (polymers) are added in an effort to stabilize the viscosity. This allows a 10W40 oil to flow like a 10W at cold temperatures and a 40W at higher temperatures. In other words, multigrade oils are formulated to pass viscosity tests across a range of weights. For example, 10W30 meets the requirements for 10-weight at cold temperatures and 30-weight at high temps.

 

The multigrade oils' viscosity modifiers are long-chain molecules that lessen the change of viscosity with temperature variance. In the past, the polymer additives (used to thicken the oil) were sometimes susceptible to viscosity loss. Permanent viscosity loss occurred when high shear forces (such as the relationship between the main bearings and the crankshaft) actually break the polymer molecules into less-effective smaller pieces. On a similar note, temporary viscosity loss also occurred when the polymer molecules aligned themselves in order to create a path of least resistance.

I may be guilty of being too literal, but a gearbox sounds like a perfect mechanism for chopping long chain polymers into smaller pieces.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
lvnvbiker

A frame... Meh! Real practitioners of overkill use a crane! I have actualy considered doing it by suspending my bike from the 100 tonne Linkbelt crane at work, but thankfully the Beer wore off before I picked up tools and headed for the shop. For you Aussies I envy you the VB, have not had a can since 1987 when I was in Perth last. Great beer that is, and Fosters is Roo piss!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
fatboyjim
I just booked my 2005 ST into the local BMW dealer here in Bristol. They put in the BMW recommended oil (75/90 at £33 a litre) and charged £63 all up. Can't really complain?

 

re: "(75/90 at £33 a litre"

that is shockingly expensive. :eek:

 

Yup, that is a bit high.

SAF-XO in Wiltshire

S'where I got mine and it was £22 inclding delivery. I would have gotten about 6 changes out of the bottle if it wasn't kicked over by the dog.

 

Jim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Unhofliche_Gesundheit

I am going to London UK for the holidays - dec 25 - 31st - not looking forward to buying stuff - everything is the same price except change the $ for a £ !.

i.e everything is 1.88 times more expensive! :cry:

 

case in point: the 14.99 quid you paid for your lube i got for 15.92 cdn$ (ok your VAT included, wheras in my case prices do not include tax - how lame is that... add 13% please guv'nor :eek: )

 

i dont know how you guys do it - i guess you earn 1.88 times more than we do !! :grin:

 

the disparity in the USA is even greater. :dopeslap:

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bimmers

Yes the dealer printed on the workorder/invoice so it is in black and white.

I will go back and ask about it after the turn of the year, will go south and ride some in between. Will also ask another dealer on the way about it. What a mess!!

 

thanks for all comments I think this is a fascinating discussion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bimmers

The Europions have become the bonzos and their pricing / cost is just insane. Partially because of our greenback having so much mold on it that it sells at a discount but it actually always has been so that the European prices have been higher, no bargains there. Truth is though also that quality often hasa been higher but service related issues are handled worse than here.

I guess a little of a hijack but everything has for a long time been affordable here and the volumes help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
tbrown

Gentlemen:

 

If there is any component on these bikes where you should follow BMW's lubrication recommendation to the LETTER, it's the final drive. I can't believe, given all the failures and warranty arguments with the factory reps that someone would consider experimenting with a different oil. You don't use much, how much are you saving? Get a grip!

 

-TB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Peer

I had a FD failure at 26000km on my 06 1200RT. This is in South Africa.

 

Oil was not changed at 1000km service. Was not on maintainance schedule at that time.

When opened by agent, I saw two bearings with hardly any chromeleft, had fallen out of bearing and was lying in casing.Thisbearing is the one that keeps the drive shaft in place. you should have seen what the pinion and other gear looked like...

 

Oil was full of metal debris,dirty with sivery shine.

 

Diff assembly was replaced under BMW guarantee (only because I did the mileage within the 2 year guarantee period)

 

I diam aware of two other FD failures attended to by the same dealer.

 

I was told that new diff oil had to bechanged at 1000km (which was done) and never again thereafter. I have nowdone 53000km without any further hassles except I experience alot of play in the transmission when going slowly in traffic. I know that there is always a bit of play but this has now changed to a klonk-klonk which is worse than I had on any of my three previous BMW's dting back to a 1980 100RT.

 

My 3 cents worth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Firefight911

As with everything, change is a constant.

 

BMW now recommends the FD oil be changed at 600 miles, and every 12,000 miles thereafter. Replacement oil volume is now set at 180 mls.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Funride

Phil,

 

Where did you hear about changing the FD oil level down to 180cc.

 

Latest info I have is at 220cc.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Angel

180 is the new amount.

I saw it first posted on the MOA forums...a tech bulletin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Twisties
Phil,

 

Where did you hear about changing the FD oil level down to 180cc.

 

Latest info I have is at 220cc.

 

LINKY

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Funride

Angel,

 

Thanks for info. I have a new bike and coming up on the first oil change. I just subscribed to MOA but have not been able to get in there yet. I guess it takes them a few days to set up the password etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Angel

welcome Tom,

Lots of good information on Here and the MOA Forums. I usually cross post my questions... and I have gleaned a great deal of information from reading what others are posting.

Cheers to ya!

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Twisties

Just helped do a fluid exchange with the newer FD design with the drain in the bottom and the dedicated fill plug. Anyone have the correct torques for replacing the drain and fill plugs?

 

The washer on the fill plug did not seem to be a crush washer, but appeared to be more of a permanent brass washer. Is it supposed to be replaced each time?

 

Thx!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Joe_Rocket

Just wanted to give a big thanks to Phil for starting this thread. I followed the instructions and changed the final drive fluid and transmission fluid (and air cleaner while I had the plastic off) and the procedure was flawless. After 20k miles, the fluid in the transmission and final drive were dark but not overly so. You could clearly see a metallic tinge to both. In the process of changing out the final drive fluid, I noticed my rear brake pads are pretty worn so I'll be changing front and rear brake pads in the next few days.

 

Finally... I asked my BMW service rep what oils should be used in the transmission and final drive and he said BMW recommends 75-90 for the final drive and 75-90 or 75-140 for the transmission. I chose to use 75-90 mobile 1 synthetic in both.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JohnF

My 2007 GS had black FD fluid the first 3 drainings (10K,12.5K, and 23K miles). The FD would develope a slow leak after long rides. The dealer finally found the problem. A seal had been deteriorating from a rough surface according to the mechanic who finally fixed the problem. The FD fluid changed at 42.5K was almost as clear as the new stuff and it had almost 20K miles on it. The blackness was apparently microscopic seal material particles.

BTW - my service information calls for 74W 90 (not 75W150).

That same dealer used to recommend 75W150 but went back to 75W90. He claimed that it would not warm up as much as the higher viscosity 75W150. I'd go with BMW's current recommendation.

Also - the drain hole on my 2007 is below the level that results when refilling with 230CC. I think the correct way is to fill through the wheel sensor hole with the final drive up in operating position and the drain plug in place.

And also - My 2007 R1200GS is for sale (Cincinnati Craig's List)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Firefight911
My 2007 GS had black FD fluid the first 3 drainings (10K,12.5K, and 23K miles). The FD would develope a slow leak after long rides. The dealer finally found the problem. A seal had been deteriorating from a rough surface according to the mechanic who finally fixed the problem. The FD fluid changed at 42.5K was almost as clear as the new stuff and it had almost 20K miles on it. The blackness was apparently microscopic seal material particles.

BTW - my service information calls for 74W 90 (not 75W150).

 

 

That same dealer used to recommend 75W150 but went back to 75W90. He claimed that it would not warm up as much as the higher viscosity 75W150. I'd go with BMW's current recommendation.

Also - the drain hole on my 2007 is below the level that results when refilling with 230CC. I think the correct way is to fill through the wheel sensor hole with the final drive up in operating position and the drain plug in place.

And also - My 2007 R1200GS is for sale (Cincinnati Craig's List)

 

Reading through this entire thread will show the complete evolution of both viscosity requirements (now 75w90) as well as level (now 180cc). It also shows the change from lifetime to intervaled changes Filling to some line or drain hole on the final drive is not really adequate for this. The tranny, OTOH, works out to be fine and correct for both level and volume.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Huzband

 

Reading through this entire thread will show the complete evolution of both viscosity requirements (now 75w90) as well as level (now 180cc). It also shows the change from lifetime to intervaled changes Filling to some line or drain hole on the final drive is not really adequate for this. The tranny, OTOH, works out to be fine and correct for both level and volume.

 

What Phil said.

 

One must pay close attention to service bulletins & changes thereof. What may seem inconsequential can mean the difference between a warranty coverage or not. For instance, when I got my RT, the spec for FD fluid was 200 ml. It was shortly thereafter updated to 180 ml. What's a 20ml diff you ask? A blown out seal, that's what. I caught the update before I had a potentially catastrophic failure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...