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The "Law"?


motorman587

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Motorman...your a good man and I respect you and your work as a LEO...but that is what freedom and life is all about...Live and let live...within reasonable laws

 

 

I love that video...I'm gonna ride my Harley to work tomorrow....I'll decide whether or not to wear the helmet ....after I get on the bike.....

 

They are the best marketeers in the world.....

 

Handle bars??????

 

Whip

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Let me put it this way, John. If they're not actually in Florida, none of them are "violating Florida's 316.2095 (2)"

 

Why make a film expressing joy in riding and the deep meaning that has for some of us? Hmm.... maybe to advocate a way of viewing the world and perhaps sell a couple motorcycles along the way? No big mystery there.

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ShovelStrokeEd

Well, they certainly aren't in Florida.

 

I have actually ridden a motorcycle or two equipped with ape hangers and can tell you that it is no big deal. Control inputs are exactly the same. It is still all up to the rider to provide the proper input. In fact, in the slow speed stuff, I'll take a bagger with ape hangers over a Ducati or Guzzi with next to no steering lock at all.

 

As to the video, look at the smiles, they are having a good time. I won't comment on their spacing or lack of gear, it's a lifestyle thing. At the speeds most of those parades travel, there is less danger than one would think. I am glad I have the sound off. grin.gif

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Motorman...your a good man and I respect you and your work as a LEO...but that is what freedom and life is all about...Live and let live...within reasonable laws

 

 

 

I love that video...I'm gonna ride my Harley to work tomorrow....I'll decide whether or not to wear the helmet ....after I get on the bike.....

 

They are the best marketeers in the world.....

 

Handle bars??????

 

Whip

So are you saying that this is an unreasonable law and how come.

 

I am glad that you respect me and just remember I do not make the laws, I only enforce them, by people who we vote into office who I believe are reasonable. thumbsup.gif

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Well, they certainly aren't in Florida.

 

I have actually ridden a motorcycle or two equipped with ape hangers and can tell you that it is no big deal. Control inputs are exactly the same. It is still all up to the rider to provide the proper input. In fact, in the slow speed stuff, I'll take a bagger with ape hangers over a Ducati or Guzzi with next to no steering lock at all.

 

As to the video, look at the smiles, they are having a good time. I won't comment on their spacing or lack of gear, it's a lifestyle thing. At the speeds most of those parades travel, there is less danger than one would think. I am glad I have the sound off. grin.gif

 

So why have a law like this and "who" would make law like this.

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So why have a law like this and "who" would make law like this.

 

I can't speak for FL but here in PA we have plenty of laws that are anything but inciteful and well thought out.

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So why have a law like this and "who" would make law like this.

 

Hmmm, let me think.....for revenue enhancement maybe? (Sorry couldn't help that poke, it was sooo easy grin.gif )

 

Actually I think this is a case of misguided legislators that actually listened to the vitriolic attacks made on the motorcycling community by someone like Joan Claybrook. If not her, certainly some other safetycrat bent on outlawing motorcycles to save use from those "murdercycles". Followed by dim witted and ill educated legislators who sopped up the tripe and wrote such a bias into law. I bet those responsible for writing this kind of law never actually had ridden a motorcycle and assumed this must be dangerous, because someone told us it was. And those legislators who may have known better had other deals to cut, so why bother fight this stupidity. We get another stupid law.....and a source of revenue for the municipalities that enforce it (oops, sorry I did it again bncry.gif )

 

In the extreme Ape Hanger bars do limit the force you can apply to the bars reducing the benefits of countersteering and on long trips the hands might numb up quicker as the blood has a tendency to leave the hands. What HD has done with their Ape Hanger bars is quite modest in rise leaving plenty of leverage to control the machine....I'm sure they ran this past their lawyers who advised them about not giving the ambulance chasing lawyers any added leverage to extract cash from the Motor Company.

 

For me, I say Ape Hangers looks cool..... partcularly on someone elses bike

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why would you make a film like that???

 

 

I wasn't clear in my response. I was reacting to the video itself.

 

I don't care about the handle bars or their hieght....I've never had them like that and never will.

 

Whip

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While watching the video I was reminded why I ride a beemer and not a harley.....I just don't get the philosophy they're selling. I believe they look like dorks... dopeslap.gif

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I have actually ridden a motorcycle or two equipped with ape hangers and can tell you that it is no big deal.

 

It is my understanding that they are particularly dangerous in an emergency stop. With good brakes there is a tremendous amount of forward momentum that has to be held back with your arms, and ape hangers put your arms at a distinct mechanical disadvantage compared to arms lower down in front.

 

Jay

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John,

 

Ape hangers or no my guess is the line "some of us believe in the man upstairs and all of us believe in sticking it to the man down here" was the burr that got under your saddle. Understandable.

 

My own unresquested opinion is without darkness you couldn't have light.

Harley's marketing to boomers who wanna play dark...you my friend, play light, for keeps.

 

That said, everyone on this board has at least a little bad boy in us. Better it comes out in ape hangers.

 

thumbsup.gif

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John,

 

Ape hangers or no my guess is the line "some of us believe in the man upstairs and all of us believe in sticking it to the man down here" was the burr that got under your saddle. Understandable.

Only if you interpret The Man as meaning cops, I don't think that is what they meant at all.
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I believe they look like dorks...

 

Me too. But my wife says I look like a dork sometimes as well. (OK, most of the time tongue.gif)

 

OTOH, having those dorks out there makes us look better. wave.gif

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Back in 1992 I had a custom softtail with ape hangers above my shoulders. I put 135,000 miles on that Harley all over the US , Canada and Mexico. No hassles from any LEO's about the bars.

 

I had plenty of opportunities to apply maximum braking on the bike and no problems controlling it or getting thrown over the front.

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ShovelStrokeEd

Why should they be more dangerous when stopping? Done properly, your connection to the bike and the resistance to your body flying forward under braking has nothing to do with where your hands are. You grip the seat/tank with your legs and resist the force on your upper body with your core muscles. Arms, other than tension needed to apply brake/clutch remain relaxed.

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Why should they be more dangerous when stopping? Done properly, your connection to the bike and the resistance to your body flying forward under braking has nothing to do with where your hands are. You grip the seat/tank with your legs and resist the force on your upper body with your core muscles. Arms, other than tension needed to apply brake/clutch remain relaxed.

 

+1 thumbsup.gif

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Why should they be more dangerous when stopping? Done properly, your connection to the bike and the resistance to your body flying forward under braking has nothing to do with where your hands are. You grip the seat/tank with your legs and resist the force on your upper body with your core muscles. Arms, other than tension needed to apply brake/clutch remain relaxed.

 

This explains why HD riders tend to have big arms and shoulders. It's not just a ride, it's a workout!

 

"At HD we believe that you can enjoy the ride AND exercise your body at the same time." cool.gif

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Why should they be more dangerous when stopping? Done properly, your connection to the bike and the resistance to your body flying forward under braking has nothing to do with where your hands are. You grip the seat/tank with your legs and resist the force on your upper body with your core muscles. Arms, other than tension needed to apply brake/clutch remain relaxed.

 

Hmmm, well maybe I'm wrong then, though my earlier post was written based upon an article I read somewhere that seemed credible.

 

I have never riden a bike with ape hangers, so I will defer to your experience on this one.

 

Jay

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While watching the video I was reminded why I ride a beemer and not a harley.....I just don't get the philosophy they're selling. I believe they look like dorks... dopeslap.gif

 

Everybody is somebody's dork - look at how a kitted-out, ATGATT BMW rider looks. Especially in August in Florida.

lmao.gif

Pilgrim grin.gif

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There's your answer!

You CAN put ape hangers on a Harley because their brakes are so crappy lmao.gif

 

Go try the brakes - nah, discontinue the suggestion. It's about preconceived notions, and those are tough to break.

 

But just in case . . . drop by here.

 

Pilgrim

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wrestleantares

I have to say, that video was one of the funniest videos I have seen recently.

 

In the old Coca-Cola urban legend the creator of Coca-Cola is given a million dollar idea by a nobody: "bottle it"

 

I have to think there was some low-level employee looking at the Harley he was working on in the factory and then at his t-shirt. He heads up to the corporate office and tells the powers that be:

 

"Emblazon It"

 

And emblazon it they have. On every piece of marketable crap you can imagine.

 

The video such a piece of image driven drivel that it borders on the ridiculous.

 

Correct that... it crosses the border and is nothing but laughable. Maybe its because of my anecdotal experience with the HD crowd that I believe this way. It is such a load of image BS.

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AdventurePoser
John,

 

Ape hangers or no my guess is the line "some of us believe in the man upstairs and all of us believe in sticking it to the man down here" was the burr that got under your saddle. Understandable.

 

My own unresquested opinion is without darkness you couldn't have light.

Harley's marketing to boomers who wanna play dark...you my friend, play light, for keeps.

 

That said, everyone on this board has at least a little bad boy in us. Better it comes out in ape hangers.

 

thumbsup.gif

 

In another thread I established that I was the "Man," and consequently I don't mind if someone wants to attempt to "stick it to me."

 

HD is a marketing god...

 

Steve in So Cal

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Come on now, don't get testy on me, I'm chain yanking here... wink.gif

 

And, to paraphrase :

One (ancient) test does not a notion (preconceived or otherwise!) break grin.gifgrin.gif

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John, why do you start these threads? You know you are going to suffer nothing but grief.

My enforcement philosophy is to leave mechanical violations alone unless it is used as probable cause to make a traffic stop for another purpose.

We had more than enough work to do with just writing hazardous moving violations and collisions.

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John, why do you start these threads? You know you are going to suffer nothing but grief.

My enforcement philosophy is to leave mechanical violations alone unless it is used as probable cause to make a traffic stop for another purpose.

We had more than enough work to do with just writing hazardous moving violations and collisions.

 

Bob, relax, first I never never stated anything about enforcement. I just stated on this film from a major company, how many would be violating a Florida law. You read into what I was saying. All LEO have different reason why they write or stop a person the video and the law has nothing to do with LEOs.

 

Second, my point was to show folks that a law maker in the State of Florida felt that it was dangerous to ride a motorcycle with the shoulders lower than the handgrips. And that LEO should enforce this law, not that we have enough to laws to pan through. I was actual on the motorcyclist side and thought this was a weird law. Sorry.

 

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Quote:......"Well, they certainly aren't in Florida."......Quote

 

Looks like Lake Hughes Road near Castiac Lake in California to me....If it's where I think it is it is a great "let 'er rip" section just north of the lake.....I'll reserve comment on the theme of the video....

 

Phil........Redbrick (slightly Red NECKED)

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Looks like Lake Hughes Road near Castiac Lake in California to me....
Illegal in California too

 

CVC 27801. No person shall drive any two-wheel motorcycle:

 

(a) Equipped with a seat so positioned that the driver, when sitting astride the seat, cannot reach the ground with his feet.

 

(b) Equipped with handlebars so positioned that the hands of the driver, when upon the grips, are at or above his shoulder height when sitting astride the seat.

 

even on bicycles:

 

HANDLEBARS--No person shall operate on the highway any bicycle equipped with handlebars so raised that the operator must elevate his or her hands above the level of his or her shoulders in order to grasp the normal steering grip area. [CVC 21201 (b)]

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Quote:......"Well, they certainly aren't in Florida."......Quote

 

Looks like Lake Hughes Road near Castiac Lake in California to me.

 

I thought the same.

Also the freeway transition ramp is I-5 North to the 14 North.

 

The South bound section collapsed during the Northridge quake killing a LAPD motor officer who was ridding into work bncry.gif

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Illegal in California too

 

But not enforced. If they're not going to enforce the noise regulations (and they aren't/won't/don't), handlebars aren't getting any attention, either...and they shouldn't.

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ShovelStrokeEd

A little history about how all this got started, mostly from a fading memory.

 

Back in the 60's, there started a craze towards higher ahd higher bars, st least some of it in imitation of what the 1% crowd was doing. Along with it came the infamous Z bars. A goodly percentage of those being turned out by shops with a less than sterling quality control program. Shoddy welds, poor metalurgy, embrittlement from the chroming process. More than a few snapped handlebars from only minor stress with predictable results. Legislators and do-gooders soon stepped up to the plate with the laws as we see them today. There was a lot more going on that was as dangerous or more so. Forks extended by screwing an extention into the fork caps of stock forks, 30 year old springer front ends extended by welding in sections and then grinding all the meat out of the welds, frames raked by heating and bending the top and lower tubes, thereby destroying geometry and, creating stresses for which the stuff was not designed.

 

Today, folks are a good deal smarter and the shoddy stuff has fallen, for the most part, by the wayside. The laws, as they tend to do, have not gone away. A Harley type bar mount, with a moderate rise set of bars and decent bushings in the upper clamp supporting the dog bones is really not a problem, OK, not the ideal position for maximum control, but the assembly turns out rigid enough, especially with the 1.25" to 1.5" bars that control, within the limits of what the bike will do, is not an issue. In fact, with the really low seating position on some of the big twins these days, a set of drag bars in 8" dog bones would put a short rider in violation.

 

I never really liked the feel of ape hangers and the esthetic doesn't work for me, prefering, the old 'Frisco style of chopper. Speaking of esthetics, nothing like shirtless in a vest with a couple of big old hairy pits out there in the breeze to make you want to "throw up in your mouth a little." eek.gif

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quote

Speaking of esthetics, nothing like shirtless in a vest with a couple of big old hairy pits out there in the breeze to make you want to "throw up in your mouth a little."

unquote

And that's just the FEMALE bikers eek.gifeek.gifeek.gif

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Illegal in California too

 

But not enforced. If they're not going to enforce the noise regulations (and they aren't/won't/don't), handlebars aren't getting any attention, either...and they shouldn't.

Thanks for confirming what I said in my earlier post. The mechanical violation laws are seldom enforced in California unless there is a massive LEO checkpoint at a motorycle charity ride/poker runs/fun runs/biker bars and outlaw motorcycle clubhouses.

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Back in the 60's and 70S HD distanced themselves as far from the outlaw image as possible. About the time they bought back from AMF some marketing wizz came up with the "lifestyle" bs and the rest is history. Probably the most successful campaign of any product. The fact that people buy into it is the amazing part. HD is laughing all the way to the bank.

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Leikam's post in "Other" and Killer saying he didn't think The Law was The Man the Harley ad refered to got me thinking which is usually a waste of time. But in this case the ol' toolbox remembered back to when most neurons were firing and came up with a "The Man and Harley" thought.

 

Wasn't it the Reagan administration (The Man) responsible for bailing out a near bankrupt Harley corporation (the free spirit Stickor) back in what, the 80's?

 

eek.gif

 

That would be Marketing biting the hand that fed yee. And OHHHH, what marketing!!!

 

cool.gif

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Speaking of BMW cruisers, I'm surprised no one mentioned this one:

0380.jpg

 

To give credit, a guy at work showed it to me in this month's Cruising Rider mag.

 

 

What's with the oversize highway pegs? tongue.gif

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Wasn't it the Reagan administration (The Man) responsible for bailing out a near bankrupt Harley corporation (the free spirit Stickor) back in what, the 80's?

cool.gif

 

The tariff went into effect in 1983, authorized to remain in place for five years. There were dire predictions about the effects it would have, and that it would not save Harley anyway.

 

Here's a link to a paper written contemporaneously on the issue by the Cato Institute. The paper is a good read for those interested in how that sort of thing. It shows how prognositcators can get things exactly wrong in a lot of ways, which might make interesting meat for another thread. Overall, I believe the tariff was beneficial, not just for Harley, but for the American motorcycle industry in that it encouraged the Japanese to bring more of their manufacturing operations to the U.S.

 

But it did work, as we can see now. And despite Cato's predictions that, not only would it not save Harley, they would petition to have it extended since that's what tariff beneficiaries always do, Harley had the tariff dropped two years (I think it was) early.

 

And the rest is history.

 

Pilgrim

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