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Questions about the Techlusion and the Power CommanderIII


Willie

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Other than the obvious application to get rid of the famous Boxer surge (which would be my main motivation to add one of these products to my bike), are there any other advantages to running one of these. Take for instance my '96 CBR. It is totally stock but could probably benefit from a jet kit as it has a slight flat spot between 6 and 7k. What would these products do for a surge-free bike for instance. I am still having a surge issue with my '02 (I still need to try the homemade manometer before I do anything else) and am finally thinking of one of these to help sort it out. What are the pros/cons of each one? I see in the Techlusion forums that just about everyone is using different settings, so how would I know if the map for the PCIII would help my bike. Does PC give instructions on how to fine tune their box or is this just something that you have to pick up on along the way. I read some posts about the Techlusion that it is not as good because you are making blind adjustments. Isn't that basically what we used to do with our carb fed bikes. Adjust, ride...Adjust, ride. Does the PCIII eliminate the need for this? Can everything be dialed in right there on the laptop? Like I said, I still want to try the homemade manometer first (I have it dialed in at dead "O" on the twinmax, but have been told that the manometer is even better)to fix it, but if that doesn't work I am going to add one of the boxes. On a side note, running with my CCP in is just a nightmare, but what is the latest jumper config for the 1150RT. I have never tried any different CCP's so maybe that is an option, but most of the stuff I have been reading is for the 1100 or for overseas bikes. I run with no CCP in now and it at least makes the bike run decent.. but not perfect. This isn't the putt around at 3grand surge either. I ride higher up on the tach than that and it still bugs me. Even switched to Autolites. Thanks, Terry

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Willie, I personally can't comment on how hard a Power Commander 3 is to tune on the 1150 boxer as I haven't done one on the boxer.. If it is close to the Harley units you should be able to download a basic map that will run decent.. The new PC 3 allows a wide band 02 to be used (that is a true linear sensor not just a 14.7:1 over center switch like the conventional lambda sensors of old.. That should allow a fuel air ratio to be held at a point slightly richer than 14.7:1 & still keep the 02 sensor operational..

 

The Teclusion works OK on the 1150 boxer (especially for surge control) as it can add a slight amount of fuel across the entire range,, add fuel in closed loop cruise,, add fuel on throttle tip in or throttle up,, & add fuel above 4500 RPM’s for high speed enrichment.. It isn’t perfect as it needs to add fuel based on pulse width & RPM.. For the Teclusion to work good it MUST have the stock CCP & OPERATIONAL 02 installed as it needs to add fuel to the base lean factory map.. If there is a rich spot in the base mapping you will still end up with a rich or richer spot after the Teclusion is installed.. The newer 1032 or 1033 does allow the factory 02 to remain operational but really doesn’t pay attention to it while in controlled cruise.. It basically intercepts the factory 02 signal & blocks that,, then sends it’s own fabricated signal to the Motronic computer.. It does remove it’s blocking below 1500 RPM (a good converter safety feature) & allow original 02 control at idle.. I believe it also drops it’s 02 blocking above 4500 RPM but I think the Motronic doesn’t use it in that range anyhow..

 

A lot of people just pull the CCP completely or go with a jumper wire to force a different Motronic map but I have tried that & while pulling the CCP will usually eliminate the 2000-3000 RPM surge that pulls the 02 from the fuel control & forces a pretty ragged base map.. I have worked on 3 1150’s now including my own 1150RT for surge problems & while pulling the CCP does in fact remove 90% of the surging it leaves a few places in the acceleration & cruise curve that are not real smooth & took the crispness out of the upper mid RPM range.. I thought my 1150 ran pretty good without the CCP until I installed Teclusion 259 units on a couple of friends 1150 bikes.. Their bikes ran better, smoother, with crisper throttle response & much cleaner throttle control at shifting (made shifting much smoother due to clean throttle control in that range)

 

As far as using your homemade manometer on the throttle bodies to get a better balance,, that will help idle & possibly smooth out low throttle opening throttle control but I doubt it will effect surging.. The surging is brought on by the 02 trying to hold the fuel air ratio at to too lean of a mixture in that RPM range.. IF the 02 is controlling the fuel air mixture IT WILL SURGE,, if the surge is gone you DON’T have 02 control in that range anymore (period).. To only other thing that can slightly effect the surge is ignition timing.. I think that is why using different CCP jumpers can modulate the surge a little as some seem to pull spark out at different RPM ranges.. Personally that is what I think is happening when someone tries a different map jumper, they get a different spark map & that is why the surge changes but the runability gets slightly lethargic in some operating ranges then.. Pulling the CCP just goes to a non 02 controlled map & in my estimation (at least on the few samples I have seen) that map is not real clean & leaves some lean spots & possibly non linier spark map..

 

I ran my 2002 1150 for while with the CCP removed & the surging pretty well disappeared, I just didn’t like the throttle control or runability in some ranges.. After riding the bike for a couple of thousand miles with the CCP removed I re-installed the CCP & the engine response if the upper mid range & wide open improved a noticeable amount but that dreaded surge came back.. Installing a Teclusion allowed the nice crisp engine response of the original CCP but also allowed me to tune out 90% of the surging.. I can tune 100% of the surging out but fuel mileage really suffers if I do.. It takes a little fiddling to get the Teclusion to run good & give good fuel economy but it can be done.. If you just want it to run good the it is easy to set up.. It’s getting the good runability & fuel economy that takes some work.. At the moment my fuel mileage is back to about where it was at normal riding but is still a fair amount lower at 85 mph up.. But I do still have a fair amount of fuel add above 4500 RPM’s to get better top speed & I got 5 MPH more top speed with the Teclusion & that is hard to give up..

 

Twisty

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Some things I found out today after a decent ride on the Ole' RT. I ended up putting back in my CCP. It was surging without it anyway so I dropped it in and reset the Motronic. Surge was a little bit more, but the throttle response was awesome compared to running without the CCP. I had pulled the plug early after I bought the bike, so I really didn't have anything to compare it to before. Starts at the first bump also. Before it would take a hit or two to fire. Anyway, I stopped at a dealer (who HIGHLY recommends the Techlusion) and they said that it would only take about a 1/2 hour to an hour to install. Figured the bill for labor and box would be around $400. I don't know about you, but it takes me near 1/2 hour just to pull off and put back on my fairings! When I ask how they set them up, he said that they have manufactures settings that they go by. I said so you don't test them or ride them then? Then he told me that after they hook them up and set the intial settings, they hook them up to their computer to check everything out and test ride them to make sure everything is working properly. I didn't ask, but what computer would they hook up to for the checking of a Techlusion box? The BMW one? He said they have never did a PC for a BMW yet, but that they work great for the Japanese bikes. Do you really need a dyno to fit a map while using a PCIII or can you pretty much adjust it as you go like the Techlusion. Actually, I just read an article in a bike rag today that said how great the PCIII is for stock bikes because EPA has them so screwed up they don't even run right half the time. Anyone else have any input on this and thanks for the comment so far. Terry

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i installed the power commander III over the weekend. I really don't have issue with surging (i used the olive green ccp) and that seemed to remove all surging in the lower RPM's (replaced the pink one). The power commander i tried because i want better throttle response and also i want to try to eliminate the "burping" on decel. So far, it hasn't worked though as I do still hear it. The bike does feel more peppy in the lower RPM ranges though. So i'm going to take the bike up to Cliff's bmw in danbury (Dyno solutions) and have them take a dyno of it...see if he can tweak the map on it to get it just right. I hooked up the laptop on it yesterday...that's pretty neat as you can see the o2 sensor readout, the RPMs and the actual map are all there and you can adjust them (i didn't as i don't know what i'm doing on this). It comes with several maps on it (like stock bike, a bike with remus exhaust/stock air filter, then remus with a custom air filter etc) but i have one with a ztechnik pipe, not sure if that makes a difference but there's no map for this configuration.

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Some things I found out today after a decent ride on the Ole' RT. I ended up putting back in my CCP. It was surging without it anyway so I dropped it in and reset the Motronic. Surge was a little bit more, but the throttle response was awesome compared to running without the CCP. I had pulled the plug early after I bought the bike, so I really didn't have anything to compare it to before. Starts at the first bump also. Before it would take a hit or two to fire. Anyway, I stopped at a dealer (who HIGHLY recommends the Techlusion) and they said that it would only take about a 1/2 hour to an hour to install. Figured the bill for labor and box would be around $400. I don't know about you, but it takes me near 1/2 hour just to pull off and put back on my fairings! When I ask how they set them up, he said that they have manufactures settings that they go by. I said so you don't test them or ride them then? Then he told me that after they hook them up and set the intial settings, they hook them up to their computer to check everything out and test ride them to make sure everything is working properly. I didn't ask, but what computer would they hook up to for the checking of a Techlusion box? The BMW one? He said they have never did a PC for a BMW yet, but that they work great for the Japanese bikes. Do you really need a dyno to fit a map while using a PCIII or can you pretty much adjust it as you go like the Techlusion. Actually, I just read an article in a bike rag today that said how great the PCIII is for stock bikes because EPA has them so screwed up they don't even run right half the time. Anyone else have any input on this and thanks for the comment so far. Terry

Terry, that’s about what I found when going back to the pink CCP.. Mid & mid upper throttle response was noticeably improved, starting went back to a one over with no false starts, muffler exhaust note sounded cleaner & less lethargic..

 

I think to begin with I just did what everybody else did & that was to pull the CCP & ride it.. Obviously the surging problem was improved but the engine runability degraded in other operating ranges.. I did what most do & that is mostly just paid attention to the operation in the surging range.. Noted an improvement there & just rode it..

 

Next I tried the olive green CCP (just made the jumper connections to force that map).. That brought back slightly more 2000-3000 RPM surging but still operated acceptably in the 2000-3000 surging range to ride it slowly in the lower gears & do some low speed work.. At that time I noticed the other RPM & load ranges were degraded slightly (I guess I finally started paying more attention the entire RPM/load range & not just the surging range)..

 

Being an automotive engineer that at one time did a lot of drivability work on prototype vehicles I should have picked it up earlier but my surge was gone & that’s all I was looking for.. I had also just come off an 1100 & pulling the CCP in that worked pretty good.. I think that (the 1100) must have had a cleaner open loop map with better spark mapping).. Probably being able to cheat the TPS to richen the mixture on the 1100 also helped the open loop fueling & pulling the CCP forced open loop across the board so it actually ran pretty good across the board & still retained decent fuel mileage.. I think that 1100/1150 difference is fooling a lot of people now as the 1150 uses a learnable TPS so can’t be cheated & the 2.4 Motronic was chipped out with a fairly ragged open loop map (probably on purpose)..

 

Anyway, to make a long story a little shorter here I grabbed one of my engineering notebooks & made a rating sheet for cold start drivability,, 2000-3000 RPM surge operation,, throttle feel at shift,, mid range operation, upper mid range operation,, hot start,, freeway cruise throttle gain,, top speed (indicated not actual),, fuel economy.. Then I rode off the (CCP removed) for two days on similar ride routes but all runs were not under the exact same routes or operating conditions.. Then rode off the (olive green CCP) configuration,, then tried the (yellow CCP) (didn’t ride that very far & voted it as non commercial),, finally went back to the (pink CCP) the bike came with.. The pink CCP won in all ranges except 2000-3000 RPM surge (it was the worst in that range) but the mid range & upper mid range improved enough to notice on the first ride..

 

In the mean time I had a friend with an 1150 that wanted me to install a Teclusion 259 on his bike.. I did that & just set it up to the 259 recommended setting (using a voltmeter not the dial settings).. I had ridden his bike before the 259 addition & when I rode it afterwards I was impressed with It’s lack of surge (about 95% gone) I could just barely feel it (he couldn’t feel it).. The mid & upper range was fairly clean & pulled clean, strong & linier.. I gave the bike back to him to ride for a few days to watch the fuel mileage, cold start, & anything else he noticed.. He brought the bike back over a few days later & said the fuel mileage seemed worse but really hadn’t done a true fuel economy run yet.. I pulled the spark plugs & they were noticeably darker than desired & there was some soot in the muffler outlet.. So I leaned the fuel add pot by .1 volt,, turned the cruise pot down to 3.1V,, turned the yellow accel pot down to 1v,, & turned the red (over 4500 RPM) pot off.. I briefly rode the bike & to me the surging was more noticeable, the acceleration was flatter & the crispness was weaker.. He took the bike to watch for muffler soot & fuel mileage.. So far his mileage has been pretty close to what it was before the 259 install & he really likes the way it runs & starts (it starts better now with only minimal fast idle & stays running always).. He liked it so much where it is that he won’t let me mess with it anymore.. To me there was room for improvement..

 

I have since installed another 259 on another friends 1150 due to all the whopping & hollering form first friend about his..

 

I just couldn’t stand not having my own to play with so as of about a week ago now have one on my 1150RT.. I’m still playing with mine but had it adjusted pretty good after about a day.. I don’t know, I guess just give an engineer a box with some adjustable pots on it & a voltmeter & he is happy.. My fuel mileage has dropped but that is more than likely due to me finding that the 259 with that 4500 RPM fuel add gave me 5 more MPH top speed (indicated).. I have been riding at top speed a couple of time a day so my fuel mileage is way down..

 

If you are looking for a Teclusion 259 (either the 1032 or 1033 you can get them at Custom Dynamics for $219.00 shipped to your door (mine took 3 days standard free shipping).. Even if you don’t like it, it would probably bring $180.00 or more on some of the BMW for sale threads so cost to try wouldn’t be too bad.. To me the Teclusion should be a pretty good unit on the BMW boxer (using stock pink CCP) as you can turn off all pots except the cruise so it runs pretty close to stock then use only the cruise pot to eliminate open loop surging.. Leaving a little .5v-.6v green fuel pot does seem to help cold starting & open loop idle & can remove some decel popping on pipe equipped bikes..

 

http://www.customdynamics.com/motorcycle...module.htm#BMW_

 

Twisty

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i installed the power commander III over the weekend. I really don't have issue with surging (i used the olive green ccp) and that seemed to remove all surging in the lower RPM's (replaced the pink one). The power commander i tried because i want better throttle response and also i want to try to eliminate the "burping" on decel. So far, it hasn't worked though as I do still hear it. The bike does feel more peppy in the lower RPM ranges though. So i'm going to take the bike up to Cliff's bmw in danbury (Dyno solutions) and have them take a dyno of it...see if he can tweak the map on it to get it just right. I hooked up the laptop on it yesterday...that's pretty neat as you can see the o2 sensor readout, the RPMs and the actual map are all there and you can adjust them (i didn't as i don't know what i'm doing on this). It comes with several maps on it (like stock bike, a bike with remus exhaust/stock air filter, then remus with a custom air filter etc) but i have one with a ztechnik pipe, not sure if that makes a difference but there's no map for this configuration.

 

Rich, I haven’t ever worked with a Power Commander on the BMW boxer but have on numerous Harleys (mostly the older PC2 units).. On those, in order to get the decel popping out I needed to richen the decel mixture in the 0 tps boxes..

 

Your exhaust in more than likely popping due to a burnable mixture in the muffler/exhaust on decel & possibly a reversion pulse (either thermal or gas flow related, they travel back up the pipe at a different speed).. To cure the popping you probably need to make that mixture in the muffler non burnable on decel.. That usually means going fairly rich as it’s hard to make it lean enough on decel.. In the old days of carbureted bikes a lot of applications used an air cut-off valve (or valves) & their only purpose was to close off the air supply to the pilot jet circuits at high intake vacuum to force a rich decel mixture to prevent muffler popping..

Factory restrictive mufflers break up or stop the reversion pulse & even if there is a burnable mixture in the exhaust it is pretty well muffled..

 

Try calling the Power Commander tec line as they can probably talk you through a low TPS cell setting that can lower or eliminate the decel popping..

 

Or, go to some of the Harley web sites, then search under Power Commander as fighting over-run decel popping is a big part of Power Commander sales to the Harley guys..

 

Twisty

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It's not the O2 sensor/closed loop system in themselves that causes the surging, rather the fact that the air/fuel ratio is set too lean in order to accomodate efficient function of the catalytic converter. Lean surge and a dull throttle response are common side effects of a lean A/F setting. Removing the CCP will cause the ECU to default to a richer map which is why the action immediately improves throttle response (yes, I noticed that too.) But there is no reason why a closed-loop FI system can't perform well and be surge-free if it is properly mapped.

 

This thread contains a lot of information regarding the Power Commander.

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It's not the O2 sensor/closed loop system in themselves that causes the surging, rather the fact that the air/fuel ratio is set too lean in order to accomodate efficient function of the catalytic converter. Lean surge and a dull throttle response are common side effects of a lean A/F setting. Removing the CCP will cause the ECU to default to a richer map which is why the action immediately improves throttle response (yes, I noticed that too.) But there is no reason why a closed-loop FI system can't perform well and be surge-free if it is properly mapped.

 

This thread contains a lot of information regarding the Power Commander.

Smiller, what you say is true on a wide band 02 controlled system but as far as I can tell almost impossible to achieve on standard narrow band 14.7 lambda sensor controlled system.. About all you have to play with while in closed loop is ignition timing or lambda averaging on the narrow band systems.. No mater how you map the fuel curve (narrow band system) once it enters closed loop the lambda sensor will keep skewing the fuel curve until it is sees a 14.7 give or take a little.. Slowing down the cross count response by mapping could help if the surging was due to over correction but wouldn’t help a surge caused from running lean.. Now if you could find a narrow band lambda sensor that will hold a different ratio that would be something else.. I seems to me that once in closed loop the lambda is controlling the fueling duties & the computer is only trying to respond to the lambda’s wishes..

 

“But there is no reason why a closed-loop FI system can't perform well and be surge-free if it is properly mapped”.

 

I would like to hear your theory on what sort of re-mapping could make a 14.7 narrow band system function surge free in closed loop if the surge is due to a lean burn surge.. I haven’t worked with calibration for quite a few years now so maybe I can learn something new here..

 

Probably the true fix would be an engine that runs without surge at 14.7:1 due to combustion chamber design, piston shape, spark plug position (or multi spark plug position & split timing).. No doubt opening up the spark plug electrode gap a bit can help & properly placed dual plugs would surly help.. Sequential injection would probably help also..

 

Twisty

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Smiller, what you say is true on a wide band 02 controlled system but as far as I can tell almost impossible to achieve on standard narrow band 14.7 lambda sensor controlled system.. About all you have to play with while in closed loop is ignition timing or lambda averaging on the narrow band systems.. No mater how you map the fuel curve (narrow band system) once it enters closed loop the lambda sensor will keep skewing the fuel curve until it is sees a 14.7 give or take a little.
Ah, good point, and I may have overlooked that. Comparing systems with a wideband O2 sensor and a standard narrowband sensor may not be fair. It is possible that the improved performance of the Power Commander is partially due to the improved sensor technology (in addition to allowing one to set a more desireable A/F ratio.) The Power Commander seems to bring the rather crude Motronic system into the current century in that regard.

 

But your point is well taken... the change in A/F ratio alone may not necessarily account for all of the improvement, some may be due to the lack of averaging delay inherent in wideband sensor systems.

 

Probably the true fix would be an engine that runs without surge at 14.7:1 due to combustion chamber design, piston shape, spark plug position (or multi spark plug position & split timing).. No doubt opening up the spark plug electrode gap a bit can help & properly placed dual plugs would surly help.. Sequential injection would probably help also.
I agree, and that seems to be what BMW is trying to do with the R bikes as they evolve. But to be fair to BMW taming surge in this particular engine design can be a tall order.
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Smiller, I just read your thread on your Power Commander installation & tuning.. Very well done!..

 

That PC 3,, I presume it was a PC 3 you were working with correct? used a wide band 02..

You didn't cover this (or I overlooked it when reading that rather long thread) but due to the wide band going to the Power Commander I presume that forced the stock Motronic to use an open loop map as it had no stock narrow band input (or is there some sort of an interface there?).. Did you tune to the “no” CCP map or use the stock CCP map without 02 input? The reason I am asking here is- well curiosity for one- but mainly you didn’t mention spark tables & as far as I can tell the different Motronic maps use different spark tables.. I’m not even sure if using a CCP would retain that CCP spark mapping or if lack of 02 input would drive it to use the base no CCP spark mapping..

 

All that I have played with on the BMW boxer is the Teclusion 259 & that uses the stock CCP as the 259 inputs a fabricated 02 input into the Motronic so on that application it would use the CCP inspired spark map as it thinks it is getting a valid 02 input..

 

Twisty

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That PC 3,, I presume it was a PC 3 you were working with correct? used a wide band 02..
Yes, a Power Commander III with the wideband O2 sensor. This is the only Power Commander model available for the BMW oilheads.

 

You didn't cover this (or I overlooked it when reading that rather long thread) but due to the wide band going to the Power Commander I presume that forced the stock Motronic to use an open loop map as it had no stock narrow band input (or is there some sort of an interface there?)..
The Power Commander connects to the Motronic O2 sensor input and the injectors themselves (and also the TPS) and I assume that it gains control in closed-loop mode by spoofing the O2 sensor input to the Motronic and in open-loop mode by simply altering the duty cycle of the injector pulse.

 

the controls the cloDid you tune to the “no” CCP map or use the stock CCP map without 02 input?
The CCP is left in place when using the Power Commander as the PC wants the Motronic to think it is running in normal closed-loop mode (so it can be controlled as above.) If the CCP were removed then the Motronic would never go into closed-loop. Given the number of connections the PC has to the bike I suppose that you could say that it isn't necessary for the Motronic to ever go into closed-loop and the PC could just do it all (since it has its own O2 sensor and control of the TPS and injectors), but for whatever reason this is the way the PC folks decided to design it. My guess is that there are Motronic inputs (barometric pressure, intake air temp, etc.) that the PC designers wanted to retain in the system, so they decided to control via integration with the stock ECU rather than outright replacement of its function.

 

The reason I am asking here is- well curiosity for one- but mainly you didn’t mention spark tables & as far as I can tell the different Motronic maps use different spark tables.
The Power Commander doesn't affect spark timing as far as I can tell.
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Smiller, thanks for the info above.. I wasn't sure on the PC3's spark interface.. It looks like they do the same as the Teclusion & spoof the Motronic into staying in closed loop so retaining the nice spark maps of the OEM closed loop mapping..

 

I guess from reading your intall & tuning of the PC3 & my personal experience of the Teclusion you should be able to get a better closed loop feed back with the PC3 due to the wide band 02 but at a price for more difficult individual tuning..

The Teclusion seems to work pretty decent on the 1150 BMW as the stock mapping seems to be pretty lean across the board for the Boxer engine & it’s intolerance to lean fuel/air ratios.. If you have spots in the fuel control map that you need to lean out the Teclusion can’t help you there so the PC 3 would be the top in that department.. I know on the Harley’s Delphi non 02 FI system the PC 2 was the best answer but that usually needed a long bout on the chassis dyno with exhaust gas monitoring to get exactly right.. I could set them up on the road to feel pretty good but when placed on the dynojet there would be some rich places that had to be smoothed out.. Lean & lethargic is easy to feel but a little fat is almost impossible to tell by seat of the pants feel.. At least with the wide band on the PC 3 you have a kind of built in fuel/air ratio monitor tap..

 

Are you still playing with your set-up or have you got it to run pretty clean & lost interest in getting it better? With being able to make it a little richer where you need to you now have the option of kicking the spark timing up a little at the sensor mounting & starting your tuning all over again.. I am going to address that avenue on my 1150 as the Teclusion has a throttle up/throttle roll on enrichener circuit so I can probably use slightly more spark advance now..

 

Twisty

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I guess from reading your intall & tuning of the PC3 & my personal experience of the Teclusion you should be able to get a better closed loop feed back with the PC3 due to the wide band 02 but at a price for more difficult individual tuning..
I actually consider the Power Commander to be much easier to tune than the Techlusion. Everything is done via a USB port and PC interface (and you can save & restore various maps of course) vs. playing with potentiometers. If you like you can even take your bike to a dyno shop and have the dyno directly input a custom map to the Power Commander, although personally I don't think this is strictly necessary with the oilhead bikes... the default map developed by Dynojet for the stock BMW application seems to be fine. Most of the oilhead driveability issues are in the closed-loop area anyway and I don't think there's much to gain by tweaking further unless you have modified the bike, and for closed-loop operation all you have to do is set your desired A/F ratio (Dynojet suggests 13.8:1 as a good driveability/mileage compromise) and forget it. So there's really no custom tuning required, vs. playing with pots and wondering what the resultant A/F ratio might be based only on seat-of-the-pants impressions (which can be notoriously inaccurate) as with the Techlusion. To me all of that is definitely worth maybe $100 or so more for the PC, plus you get the operational advantages of a wideband O2 sensor as we discussed above.

 

Are you still playing with your set-up or have you got it to run pretty clean & lost interest in getting it better?
With the Power Commander I was pretty much at that stage the first day. grin.gif

 

If you really want to be persnickety you can even add an optional real-time A/F ratio meter to a plug-in port on the Power Commander so you can set the open loop mixture simply via road work, no dyno required. I haven't felt any need to do this but for those with heavily modified bikes it might be fun.

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Thanks for all the info so far. I still wouldn't see what computer the tech would check the Techlusion on though. Is this just a line? I bet they just adjust it to factory specs and send it out the door. BTW. I just tried to open the gap a bit on my plugs to see if that would affect combustion and apparently it doesn't do anything. It even sputtered a bit pulling out the first time. Oh well. Terry

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Thanks for all the info so far. I still wouldn't see what computer the tech would check the Techlusion on though. Is this just a line? I bet they just adjust it to factory specs and send it out the door. BTW. I just tried to open the gap a bit on my plugs to see if that would affect combustion and apparently it doesn't do anything. It even sputtered a bit pulling out the first time. Oh well. Terry

 

Willie, they can't do much on the BMW computer hookup.. With that fabricated 02 signal the Teclusion sends out they have to shut the Teclusion down to even get good data.. Teclusion tec data even says the 259 unit should be be turned off before hooking up the BMW MoDiTec diagnostic computer or it could give false readings..

 

They would need to run the bike on a chassis dyno with 02 sniffing ability & even then it is quite difficult as they would need to find a way to sniff the exhaust before it entered the catalytic converter..

 

On the positive side, there isn’t much to adjusting that Teclusion 259 to get good runability & decent fuel economy.. The 259 uses the factory CCP map & factory TPS settings so even if all the unit pots are set lean it still defaults to no worse than original operation (except closed loop)..

 

There are only 4 adjustments..

*The base across the board fuel add pot—That doesn’t add much fuel & there isn’t much reason to change that from recommended original setting..

*The accelerator or acceleration setting- That can even be turned off & it will run OK.. A good low initial setting (1volt) is a good starting place & once all else is adjusted to your satisfaction you can play with that pot until you get the best throttle roll on acceleration.. As far as I can tell if you under set that, nothing happens but a slightly less crispy acceleration at throttle up,, if set too high your fuel mileage will drop off.. If left turned off it will run about like it does now with your pink CCP installed..

*The 4500 RPM up fuel add pot.. Again a low initial setting (1volt) is a good safe place to start.. If left turned off it will still run about like it does now above 4500.. That is the most difficult pot to set (if you even care to set it).. It takes some runs in higher gears with a little more fuel add for each run & it will be about correct when you can’t feel any more improvement by going up another .1 volt.. Again it can be set rich but high RPM fuel economy will suffer.. If left low (1 volt) it will run just slightly better than with the pink CCP.. I am currently setting my pot to obtain the highest top speed.. In actuality you don’t even need to use that pot if you aren’t looking for roll on or max power above 4500 RPM in the higher gears..

*OK here is the one you do have to mess with- That is the cruise pot.. Actually this is about the only one you even need to adjust as it covers the place you ride most.. The cruise pot adds fuel in the closed loop cruise mode.. It reality it is quite simple to set yourself even if you don’t have any calibration or tuning background.. Just initially set the cruise pot to about 3.8 volts.. That setting should remove 95%-100% of the surging in closed loop cruise mode.. Then start riding the bike, when you have a good feel for the way the bike runs at light throttle cruise back the pot off to 3.7 volts & ride it a while again.. Keep backing that pot off .1 volt at a time until the surge comes back to where it bothers you.. Then go back up .1 volt (as simple as that).. If that pot is set too rich the bike will run good but your light cruise fuel economy will drop off..

 

Twisty

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Twisty, do you need to use a volt meter on your 259 or is it marked off in numbers like the face of a clock. I was looking at Dobecks sight and it looks as the new 259's are adjusted now by clock position and not voltage readings. Is this correct? If so, what is the voltage difference bewteen numbers? Thanks

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Twisty, do you need to use a volt meter on your 259 or is it marked off in numbers like the face of a clock. I was looking at Dobecks sight and it looks as the new 259's are adjusted now by clock position and not voltage readings. Is this correct? If so, what is the voltage difference bewteen numbers? Thanks

Willie, I have read that same thing (the new 259's are covered with a sealer & you can't use a voltmeter).. The three I have installed did have little voltage monitoring pads.. I guess about all you can do to know for sure is call Teclusion or Dubeck Performance & ask.. Probably still a lot of older units in the system or maybe what we have read is false..

 

Sure you can adjust by clock position.. The pots are marked with small slash marks (no usable numbers as it is all done using clock face match up).. The clock face setting will work but I have found on some pots I get a fair voltage gain with just a slight pot screw movement.. The thing I like about using voltages is it allows exact control of the setting so you can A/B then back to A exactly.. I have to use a good strong magnifying glass to see the slash marks & pot screw arrows,, I can see my digital Fluke fine with no glasses.. Truthfully, about all you have to do is keep tweaking the pot until it runs how you like in the tuning range you are working with.. You can set the green pot by clocking (2:30) & that will be very close.. Then set the yellow to (3:30),, then set the red pot to (4:30),, then set the cruise pot to (8:30) then ride the bike.. Probably not need to fool with the green pot so that will be good.. Next work with the cruise pot by backing it up ½ or 1 clock setting at a time until the surge comes back to bother you, then go back up ½ clock position.. Next try increasing the yellow pot until you notice a better throttle roll on (always under 4500 RPM’s), then keep backing the yellow accel pot off until you notice a decrease in throttle roll on (under 4500 RPM’s), then go back up slightly.. Last, if you want you can work with the red pot above 4500 RPM’s in the upper gears or just leave it at (4:30) as that is fairly low..

 

Twisty

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Twisty, do you need to use a volt meter on your 259 or is it marked off in numbers like the face of a clock. I was looking at Dobecks sight and it looks as the new 259's are adjusted now by clock position and not voltage readings. Is this correct? If so, what is the voltage difference bewteen numbers? Thanks

 

The new 259s do not have the voltage pad to accurately set voltage...they make you use the clock settings.

My 1yr, ~9000mi old 259 was recently replaced by Dobeck for a cracked pc board. The new unit does not even look like the old, squarish R259s, but rather like the FI1031, except it has the O2 plugs.

I was PO'ed that I could not 'accurately' set my voltages, but the rep at Dobeck said the board on the new units was

an 'upgraded version' of the old, bygone R259. I told them it's definitely a downgrade IMHO..... eek.gif

The dood said the increments start at 1 o'clock, which is 0v, and then to 11 o'clock, which is ~5v, in .5v increments.

FWIW, I bought the thing not to solve a surging issue, which was virtually non-existant, but to add some fuel thru out the rpm range...just a bit more power. I like the results...

My settings are very low and with the new, 'improved' clock method I use

G= .4v (a smidge below 2 o'clock)

Y= .5v (2 o'clock)

R= .5v

Cruise= 1.5v (4 o'clock)

I have no idea what they really are.....

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So are the pots and the lack of being able to read voltages the only difference between the 1032 and 1332 259 models? I have an email into Dobeck about all this, but have not heard back yet. If that is the only differenc, I might try to find an older unit.

433558.gif

433559.jpg

 

New unit on top and old on bottom.

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The 1032 and 1332 are completely different animals, I think. You'll get more info from Dobeck....

My sad tale of woe involves the 1032 only. I sent them one like your bottom pic, the 'revised' version I got back looks nothing like it, but more like the 1031 as I said. It has the removeable grommet to adjust the pots, and no voltage pads....

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i installed my power commmander USB the other day. You can set the TPS on it through the PCIII as well...i have to do this today. Then to cure my "burping" woes, the tech guy said to add 20 (from your laptop software) to the 0% throttle column in all the RPM ranges (barring the closed loop ones as you can't change them). I'll see how it goes tonight.

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Thanks for all the info so far. I still wouldn't see what computer the tech would check the Techlusion on though. Is this just a line? I bet they just adjust it to factory specs and send it out the door. BTW. I just tried to open the gap a bit on my plugs to see if that would affect combustion and apparently it doesn't do anything. It even sputtered a bit pulling out the first time. Oh well. Terry
They're referring to the shop BMW GT-1, and I'm sure they were just speaking of checking to see if any error codes were set. Accidentally or otherwise as part of their installation of the Techlusion.
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The 1032 and 1332 are completely different animals, I think. You'll get more info from Dobeck....

My sad tale of woe involves the 1032 only. I sent them one like your bottom pic, the 'revised' version I got back looks nothing like it, but more like the 1031 as I said. It has the removeable grommet to adjust the pots, and no voltage pads....

 

I had the same experience in that I thought I ordered an R259 but got the "new & improved" version. I have it for sale for $150 if anyone is interested.

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