Was running great, now not starting

[Shaman97]

Having a problem getting the bike going. First a little history.

 

Battery in bike is a WestCo 20A unit that has some writing on it of 7-18-03. Could be the purchase date, or a recharge date - dunno. Over the past year or so, the ABS lightsd alternate after the bike has sit for a couple weeks. After a few miles, turn bike off, then back on, ABS lights stay OFF, indicating good battery charge.

 

This past weekend, participated in the Northern California Gypsy Range of Light Tour. 2+ days of 300+ miles per day. Bike started and stopped numerous times, no problems, no alternating ABS lights.

 

On the ride home, got a bug stuck inside my helmet, so I stopped the bike to remove the uninvited rider. When I tried to re-start the bike, the engine turned over, but would not fire. Many thanks to Joe G. for being my wing man and keeping the cages away while I was intently trying to start the bike. Tried this a few (3) more times with the same result. As luck would have it, I was on a mountain road, and rolling the bike downhill was not a problem in an attempt to jumpstart the bike. No luck on that maneuver. However, after I stopped, I tried the start switch once more, and VOILA!! she started. I rode the remaining ~100 miles home without stopping.

 

After I got home and had about a quart of water (hot yesterday) I tried to start the bike - no luck. Left it as such overnite.

 

Today, tried starting - no joy. Tested battery voltage while starting - got ~11.0 volts. Tried to jump bike with car battery only - voltage initially at ~13 volts, but drops to 9.5 volts when starting bike (bike battery removed from bike when attempting to jump from car battery)

 

I'm leaning toward a new battery, but some of these symptoms are telling me it may be something else.

 

Fuel delivery good, becouse I rode the 100 miles home no problem. False impression?

 

What to check next,, or is it the battery after all?

 

Thanks,

Bob

[Firefight911]

Definitely sounds as though it is the battery. Double check all the connections in the electrical system for corrosion and tightness as well as check that the charge system is doing its job adequately.

 

I definietly would go with a new battery on this one.

 

Keep us posted.

[Tony_K]

+1 Battery is toast.

 

I wanted to go on that ride too. Seems like time and money never come together for such fun in my world.

[Shaman97]

I definietly would go with a new battery on this one.

 

Sure looks that way, though I since have connected a car battery in parallell with the bike battery. Turning over faster now, but still not firing. Will keep you posted.

[T__]

Having a problem getting the bike going. First a little history.

 

Battery in bike is a WestCo 20A unit that has some writing on it of 7-18-03. Could be the purchase date, or a recharge date - dunno. Over the past year or so, the ABS lightsd alternate after the bike has sit for a couple weeks. After a few miles, turn bike off, then back on, ABS lights stay OFF, indicating good battery charge.

 

This past weekend, participated in the Northern California Gypsy Range of Light Tour. 2+ days of 300+ miles per day. Bike started and stopped numerous times, no problems, no alternating ABS lights.

 

On the ride home, got a bug stuck inside my helmet, so I stopped the bike to remove the uninvited rider. When I tried to re-start the bike, the engine turned over, but would not fire. Many thanks to Joe G. for being my wing man and keeping the cages away while I was intently trying to start the bike. Tried this a few (3) more times with the same result. As luck would have it, I was on a mountain road, and rolling the bike downhill was not a problem in an attempt to jumpstart the bike. No luck on that maneuver. However, after I stopped, I tried the start switch once more, and VOILA!! she started. I rode the remaining ~100 miles home without stopping.

 

After I got home and had about a quart of water (hot yesterday) I tried to start the bike - no luck. Left it as such overnite.

 

Today, tried starting - no joy. Tested battery voltage while starting - got ~11.0 volts. Tried to jump bike with car battery only - voltage initially at ~13 volts, but drops to 9.5 volts when starting bike (bike battery removed from bike when attempting to jump from car battery)

 

I'm leaning toward a new battery, but some of these symptoms are telling me it may be something else.

 

Fuel delivery good, becouse I rode the 100 miles home no problem. False impression?

 

What to check next,, or is it the battery after all?

 

Thanks,

Bob

 

Bob, if rolling it down the hill in gear wouldn't start it then it doesn't sound battery related to me (that removed the starter load)..

 

Without more info it is only guessing but your problem sounds more like an ignition pulse coil or other bike system failure... If it won't start now you need to see (verify) you are getting a nice bluish snappy spark).. If not pull the spark plugs & re-check (that will remove starter drag & hopefully lower starter draw for the second test).. If no spark & you are cranking at or above 10 volts DC then look for other ignition related problems like a pulse coil or ign coil problem.. If a good bluish snappy spark while cranking look for a fuel issue..

 

Twisty

[Shaman97]

Bob, if rolling it down the hill in gear wouldn't start it then it doesn't sound battery related to me (that removed the starter load)..

 

Without more info it is only guessing but your problem sounds more like an ignition pulse coil or other bike system failure... If it won't start now you need to see (verify) you are getting a nice bluish snappy spark).. If not pull the spark plugs & re-check (that will remove starter drag & hopefully lower starter draw for the second test).. If no spark & you are cranking at or above 10 volts DC then look for other ignition related problems like a pulse coil or ign coil problem.. If a good bluish snappy spark while cranking look for a fuel issue..

 

Twisty

 

All good points. What's leading me back to the battery is that I was able to start and run without any incident, for 100 miles after I got it running again. We'll know pretty soon. Getting a new battery today.

 

Thanks,

Bob

[No_Twilight]

doesn't sound like the battery to me. Most likely an intermittent ignition problem. It is indeed turning over on the unsuccessful attempts to start right?

 

Coil can be a suspect but they usually work better when cold so if it isn't starting after sitting in the garage I might suspect the HES.

 

Good luck,

Jerry

[4wheeldog]

Sidestand switch? Sounds to me like you have ruled out the battery as cause (Though I would replace it because of the ABS faults). It can be easy to focus on a known problem area when the problem is actually unrelated. Good Luck!

[Shaman97]

doesn't sound like the battery to me. Most likely an intermittent ignition problem. It is indeed turning over on the unsuccessful attempts to start right?

 

It's not the battery. Just installed a new one - same problem. Yes, the engine is turning over; no fire, though. Will check spark next.

 

Will have to wait a few hours to troubleshoot further - employer actually wants me to work for him/her/them.

[flyinon2]

I had a similar problem with my bike last fall. I went out to start it one morning and the bike would turn over but not start. I noticed that after trying to start it a few times that the clock had reset to 00:00 I charged the battery, unhooked both battery cables, cleaned and tightened them and tried to start it again. It still would not start. I then remembered reading one time that sometimes when the motronic loses power it needs to be re-set so I pulled the motronic fuse, then put it back in, then turned on the ignition and slowly twisted the throttle from fully closed to fully open 3 times then I turned off the ignition. I tried starting it again and it fired right off! Maybe it's not the same problem but it might be worth a try.

[Phill]

I had similar experience recently on my 96 R1100rt turned out to be corroded bad electrical connection on my plug leads from coil. I cleaned and sprayed all electrical connections with electrical cleaner and have no problems since. Hope your problem is as simple. Said that also checked fuel filter, it seemed ok

[Shaman97]

Quick update.

 

Checked spark at both cylinders this AM at 5:30 - good. Next check is fuel system once I get home. Plenty in the tank. As luck would have it, the new battery is now exhibiting the same characteristics the old battery had due to numerous test starts.

 

This work thing is getting in the way of the play thing.

[No_Twilight]

Better get a charger on the battery to keep it happy or you'll damage your new one. Battery tender jr is cheap and effective.

 

Sounds more and more like HES. When the HES goes it is usually only half of it so you'll still have spark on one half but the bike won't run on one cylinder. And when it goes it is sometimes intermittent. mine refired for me to get to a friends house but didn't refire again to get home.

 

--Jerry

[bmwmick]

Better get a charger on the battery to keep it happy or you'll damage your new one. Battery tender jr is cheap and effective.

 

Sounds more and more like HES. When the HES goes it is usually only half of it so you'll still have spark on one half but the bike won't run on one cylinder. And when it goes it is sometimes intermittent. mine refired for me to get to a friends house but didn't refire again to get home.

 

--Jerry

 

Jerry,

The upper sensor provides spark to BOTH plugs each time it's signal is sensed. The lower sensor provides injector timing pulses.

Mick

[Shaman97]

Just got haome; ready to start troubleshooting.

 

If the HES were bad, wouldn't the bike have died completely? By that I mean the bike continued to run for 100 miles without any problems at all. If the HES were bad, wouldn't the bike just putter out at some point, leaving me stranded?

 

I'll be checking the HES first (referenced as the "HT coil" in the Haynes book) and report my findings.

 

Bob

[bmwmick]

Just got haome; ready to start troubleshooting.

 

If the HES were bad, wouldn't the bike have died completely? By that I mean the bike continued to run for 100 miles without any problems at all. If the HES were bad, wouldn't the bike just putter out at some point, leaving me stranded?

Bob,

The HES 'can' fail intermittently but the most common failure is that it dies when any amount of water is introduced under the front cover. I don't believe its the water itself that causes the failure but the water vapor getting into the HES harness down near the strain relief. If the insulation is destroyed, it will allow the small Hall sensor signals to be applied to the wrong wires....at times.

If you have a nice clean spark at both plugs (which you say you did) and you pull an injector and see a nice pulsing spray pattern while cranking, you have other problems.

Mick

[Shaman97]

Mick,

 

We're off like a herd of turtles here tonight, between dinner, homework, etc. things are moving slowly.

 

Thanks for the info. No chance of water here - haven't seen any rain for months.

 

That being said, I can tell you there is no fuel coming from the injectors. Checking furhter...

 

Bob

[Shaman97]

Problem found!!!

 

In the back of my mind, I remember searching the Board for this problem. One of the responders said to check that the fuel pump made a noise of ~2 sec when the ignition was turned on, but before the start switch was pressed. I did not have the 2 sec sound. Traced the wiring back from the connector - all good. Pulled the fuse - checked good with ohmmeter. Hmmm. Relay was swapped with a known-good locatioon (horn) - it worked.

 

Next, tried tracing 12VDC from the fuse. One side good, other side...wait a minute...moving the fuse while checking the load side of the fuse gave different voltages. Rocking the fuse back and forth eventually gave good reading. on both sides of the fuse. Turned ignition on - heard the 2 sec. whirr. Repeated - heard the whirr each time. Pressed start - kablammo - she started. Repeated for luck - started every time.

 

Thanks to everyone that contributed to helping me on this problem. Even if you responded to someone else earlier, it helped me find my problem.

 

That noise you hear is the happy clicking of my heels as I jump up and down.

 

Thanks,

Bob

[Firefight911]

And you will be arriving for Saturday's trip to Arnold at what time??????

 

Congrats on the fix!!!!!!!!!! Jamie and I were hoping you would have it fixed in time! Isn't it nice to know you were a topic of conversation at the dinner table??

[Shaman97]

Bwahahah How did I know you were lurking on this message?

 

Marlene & Glen's Dead Fly Diner in Plymouth?

 

Oh Seven Hundred?? Or thereabouts.

 

Just milk in the coffee for me

 

Cell = 916-213-2659. I've got yours.

[KMG_365]

SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Firefight911]

Bwahahah How did I know you were lurking on this message?

 

Marlene & Glen's Dead Fly Diner in Plymouth?

 

Oh Seven Hundred?? Or thereabouts.

 

Just milk in the coffee for me

 

Cell = 916-213-2659. I've got yours.

 

Jamie and I will see you there at 0700! Looking forward to it!