Metzler 880s versus Z6 Tires

[Odiedog]

I have a 2003 1150 RT running ME880's. I need to replace the front tire (left side is more worn than the right side. A friend said that is an RT idiosyncrosy.) I figured I might as well do both the front and back. SWtires doesn't have the 170/60 reat in stock right now so I was wondering what difference would I see with Z6's instead. I am most concerned with wet road performance. I ride aggessively but not super aggressive, mostly just commuting miles and a little two up.

 

Thanks for any thoughts.

 

Steve

[JP Irie]

I am running the Z6's and have nothing but good things to say at this point- have not tried the 880's though. I have been impressed with the rain ability and they seem to like the corners just fine...

[W. Mazelin]

My wife has the Z6s on her R-1150-RS, they replaced the worn out Z4s. So far they have been a great set of tires. 21,643 miles on her bike right now, the Z6s were put on around 7,500 (+/-?) miles ago. The left of the tire is wearing out because of the roadway crown, all MC tires in the US wear that way.

[Odiedog]

Doh!! That would explain the wear. I thought I was just making more left hand turns on my daily commute. Thanks for the insight. I e-mailed Blaine and ended up buying the Z6's. Thanks for the feedback.

[T__]

The left of the tire is wearing out because of the roadway crown, all MC tires in the US wear that way.

 

That must be some very steep crowned roads your wife is riding on..

If you find the highest road crown road you ride on then stand your bike up straight on that crowned road you will usually find that the tire contact patch to pavement contact area is about ½ way between the tire’s worn area & center of tire..

 

Put a couple of paint marks across your tire (all the way across), then ride that crowned road.. Now look at where the paint is worn off.. Then, re-mark the paint lines across the front tire & go ride some of your favorite or most traveled left hand corners & see where the paint line is worn off..

 

After the above test see if you still think it is a road crown thing..

 

Twisty

[Ken H.]

I've ran both, and I say while the Z6s are somewhat more 'sticky' and at the very edge of extreme riding, they handle a bit better, for the longer life and lower cost, the 880 will do 90% of most everything most all of us ever do.

[Rags]

I've ran both, and I say while the Z6s are somewhat more 'sticky' and at the very edge of extreme riding, they handle a bit better, for the longer life and lower cost, the 880 will do 90% of most everything most all of us ever do.

 

+1

[Darrell Hoemann]

I've got an 04 RT and while I haven't tried the 880s, I got 14,500 out of a set of Z6s and really liked the handling. Currently running Pilot Roads ( I once made some money from Michelin and thought I'd try them) and find them similar to the Z6s

Enjoy

[W. Mazelin]

The roads don't need to have much of a crown but when every mile you ride is like that it adds up quickly. Additional items that need to be considered are load, and the fact that air filled tires squish to conform to the road surface. The short distances for left hand turns don't add up to that many miles over the life of a tire. The roadways throughtout the country are crowned a little bit to help with water drainage. In England the tires are more worn on the right side because they ride on the opposite side of the road.

[Paul Mihalka]

In England the tires are more worn on the right side because they ride on the opposite side of the road.

Can our UK friends confirm (or denie) that? I always thought that infamous PTTR (Pull To The Right) came from weight distribution and not road crown.

[upflying]

The left of the tire is wearing out because of the roadway crown, all MC tires in the US wear that way.

My theory of left side tire wear has to do with the longitudinal (sp?) position of the crankshaft on the boxer engine. Much like the P-Factor in aviation, you have to add a slight steering (or rudder) correction to overome rotational forces of the engine. Is this a hijak?

[philbytx]

Oh! Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!

[T__]

The left of the tire is wearing out because of the roadway crown, all MC tires in the US wear that way.

My theory of left side tire wear has to do with the longitudinal (sp?) position of the crankshaft on the boxer engine. Much like the P-Factor in aviation, you have to add a slight steering (or rudder) correction to overome rotational forces of the engine. Is this a hijak?

 

Upflying, that would be true IF the BMW motorcycle was propelled by a propeller.. On the airplane you need to add some counter roll because the propeller is reacting (pushing) against the resistance of the air.. There would be some counter roll needed when the aircraft engine is accelerating or deceling (changing RPM) but once the engine RPM stabilized there would be no reaction to the revolving engine.. That falls back to the physics saying of “once a body is put in motion it tends to stay in motion”.. To prove that point just pick up an electric motor (1/4 hp will do),, then have someone plug it in or turn it on.. When first powered up & coming up to speed (RPM) it will want to twist & torque in your hand.. Once up to full stabilize RPM it will just sit there in your hands & purr.. If you try to move it at angles to it’s rotational armature you will feel the gyroscopic effect of the revolving armature fighting you but otherwise it will just sit there with no fighting or want to roll..

 

On the same note; most ALL motorcycles (R/H side of road operation) tend to wear the left side of the front tire.. My Harley does it, my GoldWing was the worst bike I have owned for L/H wear on the front tire & the GoldWing had a the alternator stator & main trans gears spinning reverse direction to off set engine torque roll (you could rev the heck out of that Wing at standstill & the bike wouldn’t roll even a little but still wore the L/H side of the front tire to the point it would cup the tire about 15°-20° around the tire from center line.. Even riding mostly freeway center & L/H lane that Wing would wear the left side of the front tire as well as wearing the center flat.. That is the bike I painted the stripes across the front tire to prove it was L/H turn lean angle & not road crown wearing the L/H sideof the front tire.. Road crown would = tire wear at around 1°-5° off tire's center... L/H turn would = tire wear around 15°-20° off the tire's center..

 

Twisty

[Boffin]

In England the tires are more worn on the right side because they ride on the opposite side of the road.

Can our UK friends confirm (or denie) that? I always thought that infamous PTTR (Pull To The Right) came from weight distribution and not road crown.

 

Usually I get fairly even wear. The last set of tyres wore more on the left than the right. I think it is more to do with cornering than anything else. I have a hard left turn on my way to work, where I am often accelerating hard from a standstill, touching the left-hand feeler down as I apex the intersection

Most UK riders prefer right-handers as you can see much further through the corner, so tend to ride it harder. I expect the opposite is true for those of you who follows Napoleon's desire to use the wrong side of the road.

 

Andy

[upflying]

The left of the tire is wearing out because of the roadway crown, all MC tires in the US wear that way.

My theory of left side tire wear has to do with the longitudinal (sp?) position of the crankshaft on the boxer engine. Much like the P-Factor in aviation, you have to add a slight steering (or rudder) correction to overome rotational forces of the engine. Is this a hijak?

 

.. That falls back to the physics saying of “once a body is put in motion it tends to stay in motion”.. To prove that point just pick up an electric motor (1/4 hp will do),, then have someone plug it in or turn it on.. When first powered up & coming up to speed (RPM) it will want to twist & torque in your hand.. Once up to full stabilize RPM it will just sit there in your hands & purr.. If you try to move it at angles to it’s rotational armature you will feel the gyroscopic effect of the revolving armature fighting you but otherwise it will just sit there with no fighting or want to roll..

 

To prove another point, I can feel the Boxer engine twist and torque when I rev it, just like a single engine, propeller driven aircraft.

[T__]

 

 

To prove another point, I can feel the Boxer engine twist and torque when I rev it, just like a single engine, propeller driven aircraft.

 

Upflying, sure you can.. That is just the reaction to the initial acceleration of the engine rotating mass.. Let the engine RPM stabilize & that twist will go away & the bike will just sit there as a lump..

On your prop driven plane that torque will stay with you as long as the prop is reacting against the air resistance..

 

Twisty

[Odiedog]

I got the feedback on the Z6s that I needed.

 

By the way, the P Factor and need for rudder on an airplane has nothing to do with torque. P factor causes a change in yaw (usually to the left), due to the prop's angle of attack and the fact that there is more thrust on the right side of the prop. There is also a spiral prop wash that hits the vertical stabilizer from the left side, causing additional push to the left.

 

Amazing what you can learn by staying at a Holiday Inn Express

[Myse7en]

I recently got a puncture in the front tyre, but thankfully it was worn out and needed replacing anyway. but I did notice that it had more wear on the left. I use to live in the uk and now moved to Ireland and ride on the left handside of the road here. thought that this wear seemed odd and thought that if might be the crown in the road and the heavy weight of the bike. but I would have thought that the wear would be on the right hand side??

[Phill]

The same happens to BMWs in Monaghan. I put it down to the fact that i lean heavier and faster to my left when cornering.

[Beemeroil]

No one has mentioned my theory, already voiced, that the determining factor is how we dress-left or right side.

[Rags]

No one has mentioned my theory, already voiced, that the determining factor is how we dress-left or right side.

 

I agree with you fully.

 

[Pierce]

But when the bike is rolling down the road at say 60mph or whatever, the engine is under some resistance be it wind resistance, rolling resistance, going up an incline etc. This does cause the bike to want to roll to the right while under way. Thus we have to tilt the bike to the left to compensate for it. All I am saying is don't discount the effect of the engine when it comes down to this funky tire wear issue.

 

 

 

To prove another point, I can feel the Boxer engine twist and torque when I rev it, just like a single engine, propeller driven aircraft.

 

Upflying, sure you can.. That is just the reaction to the initial acceleration of the engine rotating mass.. Let the engine RPM stabilize & that twist will go away & the bike will just sit there as a lump..

On your prop driven plane that torque will stay with you as long as the prop is reacting against the air resistance..

 

Twisty

[philbytx]

You know...I thought about this a lot. Could this wear be due to my keeping the radio antenna on the bike even though I didn't install a radio? So I considered the drag from the antenna to be causing this wear?

 

So, to counter this, I moved my RH PIAA light slightly to the right adding a little more drag on the RH side

However, I then realized that the antenna was higher on the bike giving it more fulcrum. So I now had the bike fairly balanced out aerodynamically speaking but it was still wearing on the LH of the front tire. Eureka! All I had to do was add some drag to the highest point on my bike, so I glued a winglet on the RH side of my helmet which caused my head to lean to the right and so, instinctively, the weight shifted slightly to the right making the bike go right COUNTERACTING the LH lean .

 

Looks kinda crazy but it works just great.....plus everyone wants to know about my cool helmet

[Ian]

A wee bit off topic but I am cynical about tyre evolution. When I bought my RT in 2000 it had Z2 tyres and like me everyone in this place just loved them. Then Metzelar perhaps just as Pirelli bought them said sorry Z2 now replaced by Z4. I never read that folks had better grip than Z2 and better mileage was IMO debateable. Now when I want to renew my Z4 I find that the flavour is Z6. Marketing or what?

[T__]

But when the bike is rolling down the road at say 60mph or whatever, the engine is under some resistance be it wind resistance, rolling resistance, going up an incline etc. This does cause the bike to want to roll to the right while under way. Thus we have to tilt the bike to the left to compensate for it. All I am saying is don't discount the effect of the engine when it comes down to this funky tire wear issue.

 

Well if that is the case then the bike should roll or flip completely over to the right when going to full throttle from a stop rather than lifting the front wheel in a wheelie..

 

You are correct in that there is some engine torque to right but that is only on RPM change up.. RPM change down would roll it to the left (acceleration or de-acceleration reacting to the internal engine mass wanting to stay at the same speed it was) . The constant power applied going down the road is reacted in the fore/aft direction at the rear tire.. There could be a slight frame twisting in the lateral (or roll) direction if enough engine power or torque is added but for normal cruising power the engine, trans, & final drive are hooked together as a single unit so the torque comes out of the power-train in the fore/aft direction not roll direction.. Due to the bike having a ring & pinion gear set there would also be a slight lifting of the rear or accel & dropping of the rear on decel due to the pinion wanting to climb the ring gear under power (BMW is better than most here due to the additional joint & torque arm in the rear)..

 

As far as leaning the bike to the left to counter right engine roll.. That is true to a point but due to the steering effects of a motorcycle tire you would only lean it back to straight upright.. If it was leaned to the left of upright the bike would go left..

 

Twisty

[philbytx]

All you gotta do is simply put a winglet on your helmet

[Boxerdad]

I've got an 04 RT and while I haven't tried the 880s, I got 14,500 out of a set of Z6s and really liked the handling. Currently running Pilot Roads ( I once made some money from Michelin and thought I'd try them) and find them similar to the Z6s

Enjoy

 

How on earth did you get 14,500 miles out of Z6s!?! What pressure are you running. My front is wearing on the left side noticeably after 3,000 miles, and my rear is already flat spotted.

 

Secrets man!! I need secrets!

[Boxerdad]

I ride 92 miles to work one way, and I run Z6s. About 1/2 of those miles are 2 lane. The other half are 4 lane. After about 3K miles I was getting the dreaded Left Side Wear on my front tire. When I was on the 4 lane I only rode in the fast lane to pass. (And on a rural Iowa 4 lane that ain't often.) So now whenever I'm on the four lane I ride in the fast lane, which of course has a slope that is opposite of the slow lane. No other modifications were made. Guess what happened... Now the right side of my front tire is wearing. That seems like a pretty cut and dry explanation.

[Rags]

I don't think you're giving the winglet theory enough weight... I've crossed over from dress left or right....

 

I tried to draw from an empty holster and wet .... well you get the picture.

 

[Slartidbartfast]

I had an ME880 and BT-020 combo on my GS w/ no noticeable issues. Replaced 880 w/ a Z-6 and I am happy with that combo also. Z-6 has been fine for wet use and carving up roads in the Colorado Rockies while loaded with camping gear.

 

The BT-020 has cupped, despite running at slightly over recommended pressure. That may say more about my riding/braking style than the tire but I would not buy another as it tends to track rain grooves, unlike the noisy, cupped trailwing it replaced. I think that any tires with longitudinal tread patterns such as the center stripe on the BT-020 will tend to track rain grooves. Not sure about the Z-6 front tire for that reason, although its center groove is not straight.

 

There is no doubt in my mind that speed has the greatest effect on tire life. I have seen several tires "go away" amazingly quickly with just a few mph speed increase on a long run (including the ME880). The Z-6 seems to have stood up ok so far but it has not got too many miles on it yet.