Yamaha FJR1300--A Brief Review After 950 Mile Test Ride

[randy]

These posts are so interesting, especially as my wife now owns a FJR. She test rode the GT at the BMWOA rally in Charleston, SC. She loved the bike, and we were all set to purchase the Green/gray colored bike. As noted, my wife and I have become disappointed in BMW for just about everything but the actual bikes. warranty, quality of build, design inovation etc. So we decided to look. At the same time Chad was looking at a RS or GT and we got talking. Chad being somewhat more impulisive than I, purchased a FJR. At that time lower cost and 5 year warrantly being the biggest items in his decision. After Chad purchased the bike, we started communicating a substantial amount. I starte monitoring Warchilds site, and really felt it was one of the first bikes outside of BMW that I would like to work on, and Cathy would like riding. Other than weight issue, I thought the FJR was 67lbs lighter than the GT/RS Cathy's feelings are very similar to those expressed above.

 

First, the GT with a RS seat, in the lowest setting really is noticably lower. And to a 5'4" women this was, I felt going to end up being the deciding factor in favor of the BMW. Bottom line I was totally wrong. For some reason the FJR felt so much lighter and easier to move around, Cathy felt is was the safer bike. As mentioned by David, Cathy hated the throttle control. Very touchy, and she felt it lacked feedback. GT seemed much better in this one area. Cathy loved both engines. I felt the GT engine was smoother and quiter, but the character of the Yamaha engine was nice instead of a bad thing. Ground clearance. According to specs, and Cathy's impression the GT has more. Not a lot more but more. My feeling if you added custome after market shocks on both bikes, GT would be a FJR killer in tight stuff. In long sweepers FJR torque would win. Only one color what a bummer. But FJR has glove box, GT no. FJR has two full size bags, and both will hold XL arai. GT, neither bag will hold XL arai. Brakes, not sure we liked them both, call it a toss up. Weather protection seemed like the both did well. In the final analysis the FJR won out for Cathy. Basically she traded the feel (if David's numbers are correct) of the lighter weight FJR over the lower seat height of the KRS. Our ideal bike, ( and I think Chad may agree) a K1200GT 80lbs lighter, $5,000.00 cheaper and with the 5 year unlimited Yamaha factory extended warranty. In the end those were the three things Cathy and I choose, especially that 5 year factory extended warranty and 5,000.00 savings. Ultimately the BMW suspension, (which I do believe is the best and is safer) could not overcome the other issues.

 

Now that my K1200RS is having it's clutch redone, and my RT will be back together, and we should have all three bikes back and running very well by Nov 1, the comparisons will be interesting. In addition, Ryan's next bike is a VFR, so will have a KRS, R11RT, FJR, and VFR. That should be some comparison.

[russell_bynum]

Busa it's 2nd gear.

 

Yeah...2nd gear with the front wheel in the air. I remember.

 

[bonerpart]

I just traded my 03 FJR after 12,000 miles and much deliberation back and forth. I had owned a 96 RT a few years ago and had test ridden several RT1150's. I returned to the RT primarily because I think it is a more comfortable bike to ride all day. The main reason I liked the FJR was of course the power. You clearly get more kicks out out of that part of it than the RT. But to me the RT excells in the other important areas that make a bike comfortable--areas the FJR is good in but not up to the level of the RT.

 

The biggest FJR problem for me was wind buffetting. I tried four different shields on the FJR and still got much more wind noise than I do now with the RT stock shield. I suspect it has something to do with different fairing design.

 

My FJR did have a heat problem.

With temps at 90 degrees or better I had to sit away from the gas tank or get burn marks on the inside of my upper thighs.

I insulated the seat and tank, but still had to sit away from the tank or splay my legs out. And I'll be damned if I'm going to wear heavy pants on 100 degree days to try to insulate myself.

 

A minor other minor irritation was the right hand grip high frequency buzz at certain rpm's--not really a big deal though.

 

The FJR also needs a 6th gear for touring.

 

The RT suspension is in a league by itself and smooths the road out better--maybe too good for more sport oriented riders. None of the above would have made me sell the FJR except the wind noise. They might even be fixable. The RT's suspension, 6th gear, much quieter ride (and I do wear earplugs), and absence of heat all added up to bringing me back to the RT. It would be nice to have the power of the FJR, but I chose comfort and a little more emphasis on touring than sport to get what I wanted.

It's all a very subjective thing, and the FJR is a great bike. The RT is just a better bike for me.

[David]

The RT's suspension, 6th gear, much quieter ride (and I do wear earplugs), and absence of heat all added up to bringing me back to the RT. It would be nice to have the power of the FJR, but I chose comfort and a little more emphasis on touring than sport to get what I wanted.

It's all a very subjective thing, and the FJR is a great bike. The RT is just a better bike for me.

 

Maybe you'll get the both of both worlds once BMW comes out with the new RT, some day. I'd guess that it would be lighter and more powerful, yet retain all the other good qualities you like about it.

 

Thanks for adding your perspective!

[Mjames]

It's all a very subjective thing, and the FJR is a great bike. The RT is just a better bike for me.

 

Meads,

 

Welcome to the board! Your excellent analysis rings very true and we look forward to many more contributions.

 

Indeed, I had the same conclusion when I test rode my FJR about a year ago. I ended up riding home on my RT even though I was offered a very good trade-in by the dealer.

 

Now, my riding orientation has changed, and given the choice again, I'd probably lean toward the FJR.

 

But, for out and out comfort -- in an upright postion -- for weather and wind protection -- for roomy two-up traveling -- with all the ammenities -- the RT and its forgiving suspension is hard to beat.

[bmwscoot]

[Maybe you'll get the both of both worlds once BMW comes out with the new RT, some day. I'd guess that it would be lighter and more powerful, yet retain all the other good qualities you like about it.]

 

ooh, ooh....And CRUISE CONTROL too???!! PLEEEEEZZZZZE!

 

 

[Gary O]

Wow a lot of good reading. I've had mine for 8 weeks now, 6300 miles. The only thing I can add is it runs on 87 octane gas The book says 87 I would gladly run 91 but I can't tell any difference. By the gps 148 at 9000rpm with side cases on still pulling but I let off because of red line but the limiter cuts in at 10000 so. With a big Rifle Windshield and Givi 52 rear case 130 comes up too fast. From the desert to BearTooth Pass I have had fun last few weeks. Beartooth was so much fun I returned the next day only to run into snow for what seemed like 20 miles. Personally I would like to sit up right a little more but that's me. I loved my RT but.

[VFRLuvr]

Believe me I tried to push the bike over and over… but it just didn’t work for me… whereas the VFR800 on my most UN-FAVORITE downhill curvy road (lots of tar snakes, bad pavement different pavement…etc, it inspired confidence right off… in fact almost too much. I told myself “hey, you don’t know how this bike handles, why the hell you going so fast for?” but the throttle hand just kept twisting until I saw the cop lights.

 

[JerryW]

Great write up about a very good bike. I have a friend that has one and loves it. There is one thing. The heat issue is a problem in the summer. I was amazed. Other wise very nice bike.

[ian408]

On the K12, a buck thirty is 4th gear.

 

Busa it's 2nd gear.

 

I am reminded of the question my mother asked when I rode the Katana over

for dinner one time. "How fast will that thing go?" . My reply? "It will exceed

the speed limit in all 6 gears.".

 

It was the last such question she's asked

 

Ian

 

[PhillyFlash]

Great review, David, and everyone else. Interesting how two different people on virtually the same bike can have two completely different experiences. One more reason why I wish we were able to test ride more brands, or at least they could have a rental policy. I'd pay to take a few bikes out in order to make my decision a correct one for me.

 

They dragged raced side by side and our man Howard got the "I got bigger ones, than you, Award" and at full throttle passed him.

 

Oh Gawd...Howard's been practicing that one. I'm in trouble.

 

Yeah, that guy kept staying just a little ahead of me. Too much power, but he didn't have enough confidence in the curves. I finally got tired of playing his game and just stayed in the passing lane all the way through a curve. He eased off, I didn't. Bye bye, red RS. He was not too pleased to have me pass him. And yes, Russell, we will play that game again!

[russell_bynum]

And yes, Russell, we will play that game again!

 

Yeah, but this time we'll be at the BACK of the pack. Brian will be blazing the way on the GT, and Gleno and Sammy will pass us like this

 

Ah what the hell...

 

IN!

 

[jbuhl]

Here is a couple things I will throw into the pot that some may consider in the evaluation.

 

-Having owned enough Japenese 4s to last me awhile. I'm coughing rice out my nose. Even with the krs shortcomings it trips my trigger cause it's new to me. As I have said before "My Brat and Sourkraut are tasting good right now"

Although sometimes it's a love hate relationship and I have a ingest a few tums.

 

-The origami styling of the latest crop if Japanese bikes. I just can't warm up to it. The FJ is not that bad but the new VFR..... It looks like something a Power Ranger would ride.

 

-Fit and finish. Look and handlebar/brake/throttle assembly on the FJR compared to the KRS. I prefer the rounded lines and the inegration of the KRS. To me the FJR assembly looks

"kinda crappy". I prefer the basic flat black luggage of the krs. The FJRs look like gum drops.

 

-Cruise control, lose control, bruise control, whatever you call it. I am falling in love with it and use it all the time. Even places I probably should not.

 

The KRS needs an update (diet) and when it comes, it will send the FJ pack'n.

 

flame shield up.

 

 

 

 

[David]

The KRS needs an update (diet) and when it comes, it will send the FJ pack'n.

 

flame shield up.

 

You won't get any flames from me! I'm brand neutral. What I like about the FJR is that it raises the bar. If I were going to buy the FJR or KRS tomorrow, it'd be the FJR. (If I could find one.) But I think BMW will come out with a winner, and that's be really cool. When you think about it, that ol' KRS stands up pretty well for a bike that's been around as long as it has.

[ghaverkamp]

But I think BMW will come out with a winner, and that's be really cool. When you think about it, that ol' KRS stands up pretty well for a bike that's been around as long as it has.

 

That's one reason why it's a bit silly for people to get overly defensive. Some of us like Beemers, and it's hard to argue that the Beemers are old; if anything it's a testament to BMW's engineering that they're still as competitive as they are.

 

Of course, the other reason is that we all like different things. There looks to me to be a lot to like about the FJR... Other than its looks, for instance. Others seem to like its hideous lines, single annual color (neither of which does it for me), and bug-eyed front-end. But I don't. I don't think there's a bike on the road that's more attractive than the KRS. I'm perfectly willing to accept that others can be so wrong. (Kinda like those nutballs like Russell who accept that Windows thing everyday.)

 

Greg

[leikam]

Not only to their engineering, but to their vision that a bike should last for hundreds of thousands of miles. It seems that other marques have a much shorter product cycles (and for good reason, e.g., staying competitive in racing), which lend themselves to more "current" styling.

 

Personally, I like the look of the KRS better than the FJR, but as we know, there is no room for aesthetics in Beemerdom... form following function and all... And it seems that BMW AG has a little more function to work on now.

[ghaverkamp]

Not only to their engineering, but to their vision that a bike should last for hundreds of thousands of miles. It seems that other marques have a much shorter product cycles (and for good reason, e.g., staying competitive in racing), which lend themselves to more "current" styling.

 

I know this "hundreds of thousands of miles" thing is common lore, and it's clear to me BMWs tend to be engineered to be able to do it, even if parts have to be replaced along the way (durability vs. reliability.) While large sections of other marques' product lines clearly are not designed for that sort of longevity, it's not clear to me they aren't also designing some products for it. The Gold Wing, ST1100, and the old Yamaha Venture seem like prime examples of their respective companies engineering longevity as-needed. The (relatively) new, quality controlled Harley is another. The ST1300 (if they don't melt) and the FJR may well pan out that way, too.

 

But look at Grady Dunham on his R1 in the Baby Butt, who may already have passed 100K miles for the second time on an R1. Conventional wisdom is sports bikes aren't engineered for that. But maybe the things that are making them so good for sporting are indirectly also lending them longevity.

 

Drivetrain is the weakest part of the BMWs, which is ironic, since they've been making shaft-drive bikes longer than anyone. The Japanese bikes seem to be doing it much better, and I think it's tough to believe that's by chance.

 

Personally, I like the look of the KRS better than the FJR, but as we know, there is no room for aesthetics in Beemerdom... form following function and all... And it seems that BMW AG has a little more function to work on now.

 

If they want to perform well in function-driven reviews, they certainly do. I guess we'll see what they decide.

 

Greg

[John Ranalletta]

That's one reason why it's a bit silly for people to get overly defensive.

 

Contributing to thread drift...here's one explanantion for "mine's better'n yours".

 

Home Field Advantage

 

A researcher takes a deck of 52 cards and holds one card up. Watchers give a dollar for the chance to win $100 if that card is picked out of the deck. Keep in mind the expected payout is 1/52 x 100 = 1.92. Las Vegas would quickly go broke with such odds. Then they are asked if they would like to sell their chance and roughly 80% would sell if they could, asking for an average price of $1.86. If you could get such a price, it would be a reasonable sell. For someone who could buy all 52 chances, it would be a good purchase or arbitrage. He would make a quick 3.18%

 

Now it gets interesting. Next time the person is allowed to pick a card out of the deck and offered the same chance as above, but now they have a personal attachment to the card because they touched it.

 

Only about 60% of these were willing to sell their chance and wanted an average price of just over $6.00. However when this same trick was performed at MBA schools the average sale price has been over $9.

 

(substitute "bike" for card in the following)

 

" I know this card. I have studied it. I have a personal involvement with the card, therefore it is worth more," thinks the investor. Of course, it is worth no more than in the first case, but the psychology of "owning" the card makes investors value it more. /quote]

[steveknapp]

But I think BMW will come out with a winner, and that's be really cool. When you think about it, that ol' KRS stands up pretty well for a bike that's been around as long as it has.

 

Can't follow K-bike history. But the concours, the ST1100, the Trophy are all previous gen products that were more powerful, more sporty, than the R-RT.

 

Now the R-RT had them beat in detail, power outlets, good fairing, ABS. But they are catching up on that. The K-GT and the R1150RT are both stabs at that market and they both seem to come up short.

 

Honestly I wonder what BMW will do next. But I doubt they will beat the FJR at it's own game. They've got tradition to contend with. BMW's have always has "enough" power, and I'd expect that to continue.

 

So I guess I'm not sure what's next, but I doubt BMW will build an FJR killer. Instead they will build more well balanced touring bikes that have some really strong points, and some character.

[Member #33]

Yes, David, it was a great review of the FJR. Thanks for posting it.

 

But I have no desire to own one. Why, I wonder to myself, when it is such a wonderful machine? Which it clearly is. Shaft drive, ABS, electric windshield--that latter two copied from BMW--it seems to have everything I would want in a motorcycle.

 

I guess nothing can pry me off a BMW's saddle. Not the FJR. Not even the new shaft-drive 2,200cc Triumph (I would like to ride one, however). Why? Am I as stuck in the mud as all those riders of a certain underpowered, ill-handling, over weight, out-of-date, new-color-every-year V-twin? I confess that I guess I am.

 

I have been riding BMWs since 1967. I know them. I love the 80-year-long tradition of a boxer engine driving a shaft to the rear wheel. I feel connected to that tradition when I ride my R1150RT, or my R1150GS, my R75/5, or my R60/2. I love BMW's idiosyncracy. I think that the tradition has lodged itself in my blood and my bones like some kind of good virus.

 

Even though my R1150RT will not reach 160 MPH, it will do 80 or 90 all day and can exceed 120. Its handling capabilities are superior to this rider's. Its brakes are in a league of their own. Its engine is a twin with that lovely boxer's vibration and that has more power available to me than I use 99% of the time.

 

I do not know what Yamaha, Honda, Triumph, or the others would have to produce to pry me out of the Beemer's saddle. I don't even know if they would have a chance. It could well be hopeless. If that means I am stuck in the mud, I guess that I am.

[David]

I guess nothing can pry me off a BMW's saddle. Not the FJR. Not even the new shaft-drive 2,200cc Triumph (I would like to ride one, however). Why? Am I as stuck in the mud as all those riders of a certain underpowered, ill-handling, over weight, out-of-date, new-color-every-year V-twin? I confess that I guess I am. I have been riding BMWs since 1967. I know them. I love the 80-year-long tradition of a boxer engine driving a shaft to the rear wheel. I feel connected to that tradition when I ride my R1150RT, or my R1150GS, my R75/5, or my R60/2. I love BMW's idiosyncracy. I think that the tradition has lodged itself in my blood and my bones like some kind of good virus.

 

Fair enough! Different preferences make the world go around. The only thing that might pry you off a BMW is BMW, if they quit making the boxer like they've tried to in the past. It seems like we are in a pivotal time for BMW.

[leikam]

Very true, Greg. BMW is not the only one building for the long haul. But I do think that perspective lends itself to designs that tend to age well (which is where this started).

 

If you plan for a bike to still be in good mechanical shape in 15-20 years, it's not hard to settle on styling that might last that long too. I wonder how the current angular styling will look to us then assuming bikes like the FJR are still running. Will fat rear tires still be in vogue?

 

Compare that to a race-inspired bike, which will probably be outdated in terms of performance in a few seasons, even if it's mechanically sound enough to go many more miles. In those cases, it's easy to go with the latest styling trend and not have to worry about the longevity of the looks. The market will move and most of your buyers will be on to the next new thing.

 

The extreme of this is Harley Davidson, whose Road Kings look similar to the FL bikes they were producing 50-60 years ago, some of which are still on the road.

[Ken/OC]

...the FL bikes they were producing 50-60 years ago, some of which are still on the road.

 

The others got back OK? Sorry, couldn't resist it...

[leikam]

...the FL bikes they were producing 50-60 years ago, some of which are still on the road.

 

The others got back OK? Sorry, couldn't resist it...

Yeah, the ones still out there are taking the scenic route.

[akafranz]

Interesting to pop onto the board and see this outpouring. I got the FJR after considering the Beemer line. I got a great bike at a great price. I agree with David that BMW could / should pay attention and learn from this product. While I was waiting for the bike, I used to console myself, thinking this is ‘BMW-lite’ or a ‘poor-man’s BMW.’ I certainly don’t feel that way now. Like all loyal bike owners, I feel I have found the best bike, period. I am vain (and unedumacated) enough to believe this bike is like no other, a hybrid, a compromise, a winner. Will go fast, go smooth, go quiet, commute, go long, last long (5 yr-warranty), and go fast.

 

Oh, it has character! I have some people believing it has an electric motor! I have some other people telling me I’m likely to get impounded going that fast! It has industrial beauty like Seattle’s SafeCo field: deliberately exposed frame welds to the unhidden body works. Functional beauty. I did not expect to be the center of attention at gas stops, (from Harley riders??), at work, or wherever it lingers. “That is a beautiful bike!” from all walks of life, completely unsolicited. (often followed by “is it a BMW?”)

 

Who said it was “bug-eyed!” Man, can this thing throw a beam of light. It also has great stability in high cross winds. It is an iron horse that rules the land and elements. Okay, admittedly a bug-eyed iron horse, but I’ll take that beam. It has a low, stable center of grav, easy to handle in slow speed and commute.

 

I tweaked it a little with some Lenkadapters (note: German product!) and have a comfortable, near upright position, not unlike the RT. And I can tweak forward and be sporty again. Love the stock seat and the side cases, free quality liners.

 

I have a Rifle wind screen spinnaker and with it a great selection of wind management. The heat is not a big issue for me, nor is surging, tingling or buzzing. There are farkles and fixes for all of it, as there is for the BMW products.

 

The numbers are few (1600 FJRs in the US last year, unknown for this year), but there is a board on the internet! It is a good board, but not as structured. (You saw Warchild—do you think structure has a chance in hell?) There is going to be a “TechWest Day” on Oct 11 where the owners gather at the dealership and go over everything mechanical. That is textbook BMW group think and support.

 

Along that line, it will be tough / impossible to top the community and support network that BMW offers. Yamaha as a whole may never achieve it, but in the smaller community of FJR owners, a niche group is forming. I hope the style and concept of the BMW group / support can expand and be developed for FJR owners. Surely this is just another concept to be ‘stolen’ as Yamaha has likely stolen all the other cool BMW concepts to build the FJR.

 

Thanks to this broad for discussion and consideration given to all things motorcycle.

 

[RPG]

I think I'm just going to push my RT into a ditch. It's obviously so behind the times that I wouldn't even be able to sell it.

 

Telelever... just a strange, bad idea that never took hold. Parelever....a gimmick that never even worked. How come nobody else even tried to copy it?

 

I'm gaining speed, the ditch is only 3 feet away.

 

Heated grips....another hoax started back in the 70's to make people think these bikes are supposed to be ridden in cool weather. Everyone knows bikes are only supposed to be ridden in June and July!

 

Linked, power assisted ABS brakes........ Who needs 'em? Another ruse. I could stop better with the old /5 drums.

 

Fuel injected 4 valve twin....Utter clutter, even if it's been around for over 80 years. Tradition? Who needs tradition? Give me the newest, latest, greatest!

 

Horsepower......95 ponies just ain't enough. Never mind that the torque curve is as flat as a 1491 map of the Earth, Horsepower is what sells. Gotta have at least 180.

 

I'm gettin' closer to the point of no return. Let's see, styling and aesthetic beauty..... The RT is just too ugly. Plain and simple. I can't stand to look at those smooth flowing lines, the way that motor just emerges so cleanly out of each side of the fairing. Who are all these people that keep coming up to me at gas stations commenting on how it's styling justifies it's engineering. What do they know?

 

The 5 spoke wheels......pure garbage. Who designed those hideous things. Off into the ditch she goes.

 

Goodbye BMW. Thanks for 25+ years of always taking me there and getting me back. The snow and rain we encountered through it all when all those other bikes were hiding under overpasses. That one Suzuki GS1100 a few years who dragged raced me and won but was a distant image in my mirrors once we hit the twisties. The engines that were so easy to work on. The friendly guys at the dealers who were Enthusiasts, not just 16 year old kids selling "No Fear"

t-shirts.

 

Off into the ditch you go. Gotta get that new Yamaha now. Have to keep up with the times.

 

RG

[Venturello]

Lol RPG. Or you can run it into a car, like I did!!

 

Now I am considering a FJR as a replacement... gonna post asking about this change when I have the time (probably in a few weeks... )

[David]

Telelever... just a strange, bad idea that never took hold. Parelever....a gimmick that never even worked. How come nobody else even tried to copy it?

 

Good points! We'll see what people say if BMW decided to build a new bike without it.

 

I'm gaining speed, the ditch is only 3 feet away.

 

Countersteer, you fool! If that doesn't ring a bell, hop on over to the "Ride Well" forum.

 

Heated grips....another hoax started back in the 70's to make people think these bikes are supposed to be ridden in cool weather. Everyone knows bikes are only supposed to be ridden in June and July!

 

Heated grips are available everywhere for less than $50. That's not much of a distinction.

 

Linked, power assisted ABS brakes........ Who needs 'em?

 

Good point! We agree! I think they are misguided, more expensive to maintain, prone to failure, and more dangerous than the generation before. Bravo, my man.

 

Fuel injected 4 valve twin....Utter clutter, even if it's been around for over 80 years. Tradition? Who needs tradition? Give me the newest, latest, greatest!

 

Other manufacturers have 4-valve, fuel injected twins, too. The difference is that they put out more power, weigh less, and don't surge.

 

Horsepower......95 ponies just ain't enough. Never mind that the torque curve is as flat as a 1491 map of the Earth, Horsepower is what sells. Gotta have at least 180.

 

So you start talking about horsepower, throwing out the 95 number, and then switch to a discussion about torque? Don't forget to quote that number, too. Flat and powerful are two different words in Websters.

 

Off into the ditch you go. Gotta get that new Yamaha now. Have to keep up with the times.

 

We'll see what tune you're spoutin' when the new BMWs come out, eh?

[tom collins]

I have not read all of the posts, so please forgive me if I repeat something already said.

 

What is the big deal? I mean, why be defensive. BMW's are what they are. They have always been expensive. They have always had less power than similar sized oriental bikes. Any stock modern 600 will blast any stock Beemer into the weeds (in a strait line). But how many times can you twist the grip before it gets routine? I have no doubt that the FJR is an excellent machine, so is a Beemer just in a different way. I for one, don't love my Beemer any less now that that bike is among us. I only know this: I never had any mixed emotions about parting with any of my past oriental mistresses. I have only experienced regret when I parted with a Harley about 10 years ago and more recently, a classic airhead. Maybe that is what you get when you buy one of these.

To all of you who have made the switch - pleasant riding. If you change your mind, we'll always be glad to have you back.

 

 

tom collins

 

[yellowducati900ss]

A point on the BMW "Paralever" that has come up a couple times in this discussion. My understanding is that the paralever was there to help counteract the tourque effect of the shaft. My RT's body would twist quite a bit when I got on the gas hard but the FJR has no apparent shaft effect whatsoever even with more horsepower and torque.

 

I wonder if if the Paralever on the BMW's is really all it is cracked up to be. Of course the added effect on the BMW may be because it only has a single sided swingarm which I would assume is not as rigid as a double sided one.

[David]

Tom, I wasn't sure if you were talking to me or RPG or someone else, but I don't feel defensive at all. I still have an RT and like it. Not sure if I'd buy it again if I didn't have it, and there are certainly some things that I wish were different.

 

What I tried to write was a fair review of another motorcycle. If you read back through it, you'll find a lot of criticism of the FJR.

 

I think the point is that nearly all motorcycles are good, and by being "brand blind," a rider might miss the opportunity to experience other things. They might come off with exactly the same snootiness that Harley riders are accused of at times, right on the DB, and rightly so.

 

All of us have such different reasons for buying a motorcycle, and they change over time. For me personally, I love the build quality of BMWs and I love how oriented they are to sport touring. They have an integrated approach to the bags, the grips, the seat heights, the adjustable windshields, etc. For quite some time they've owned a lot of that market.

 

But now you have a bike in the FJR that does many of those same things well, a few things worse, and even some better. That's all. It's just worth a look.

 

What amuses me are the posts that (to me, anyway) seem to blindly throw out the "BMW speak" with not enough reference to reality. Heated grips? Come on. You can get them for probably one-third the cost of BMWs and have them on in less than an hour. Paralever/telelever? Most people don't even understand what they do, but it must be good because it's different.

 

Everything is a trade off, and there's no reason for anyone to decide what someone else likes. But that decision ought to be made on the basis of a combination of data and emotion, and when citing a preference for any particular bike, I think it helps to clarify which category the statement is coming from.

 

Personally I can't think of a more beautiful bike than the RT. But other than wind protection, heat management, and a longer warranty, I'm not sure what it does better than an FJR. Of course it's probably an unfair comparison in the first place.

[randy]

RPG excellent post, but here are some of my thoughts. I have only ridden BMW bkes since 1986. Probably both a good and bad thing. Telelevar, awesome, the original reason I bought a 1996 oilhead RT vrs a 1995 airhead RT. The issue, in 2004, is the telelevar and parlever 50% better than most other bikes suspension, in my opinion, it was in 1996 it is not now.

 

manufacture htd grips, as David pointed out, yes copied from BMW but everyone has them now. And the first htd grips were not by BMW but was an add on, that BMW correctly picked up on.

 

I like the new brakes, I know other do not, and I respect that. However as noted above, are they 50 - 60% better than other manufactues, once again in 1996 I thought so, now, I do not.

 

Cruise control, and htd seats, I think are great features and BMW has them.

 

However, when it came time to buy my 5'4" wife a new bike, one that felt lighter, was easier to move around, had a 5 year manufactures warranty WITH unlimited mileage, we decided it was time to take a chance. Did we go away from BMW, maybe, but I still have my 1996 RT, we just decided to give the FJR a real opportunity to prove it's worth vrs our other option the K1200GT.

 

Maybe in a few years we will regret it. Maybe not, but I think the point many are making, and maybe not so clear:

 

In 1996 when I compared BMW products to other manufacture products it was easy to pick the BMW bike. In 2004, it is not only difficult to choose the BMW, in many cases, the objective information says BMW is behind.

 

I feel this statement is true, and to me that is a disapointment. I have always bought BMW bikes because they represented the best value, not lowest cost, not highest, not loyalty, I looked at all the features, the upfront cost, the resale, the quality of finish, the warranty etc. And I choose BMW. Now when I do that same analysis, I no longer get a simple and clear answer.

 

In my simple mind/world, many people are not unhappy with the BMW purchase they made, or the BMW bike they have, they are unhappy with the trend. Products come out with consistent faults. M94 transmissions that lose 3rd gear. K12 bikes that lose rear ends. Oilhead bikes that surge and do not surge, to the point of frustration for the owners on either side of the issue. Consistent repair and replace items that seem to happend right around the 40,000 - 50,000 mile mark, ie. just after the warranty period expires. A dual plug fix that coudl easily have been developed, and in my opinion probably was, for the 1999 model year well after the surging was documented but a lot earlier than 2003!!

 

My RT runs fantastic. I love it. I am installing a new clutch through no issue but my own driving techniques. The third gear issue is another story. The leaky transmission seal at 45,000 miles another issue.

 

So yes I agree BMW is a great bike with lots of innovative design and features created in the late 80's and early 90's. But it is 2004 and some manufactures have decided to improve thier innovation and design, and I feel they have done a good job.

 

So just like BMW got my money in the 80's & 90's these other manufactures will get them in the 21st century if they continue to do a better job.

 

However, no matter what, BMWST.com will remain my BBS, why because it innovates, and improves it's products all the time. And ultimatley, for me that is the main determining factor on where I spend my money and time.

 

 

[yellowducati900ss]

Very well put Randy. I agree with you.

 

I put, on my bikes, what I feel is a pretty decent amount of miles every year, ~20,000. My '02 R1150RT was my first brand new bike. I bought it because I felt that its reputation for reliability was founded and I was willing to trade off performance for reliability (and money) because I used this bike to commute.

 

Unfortunately the bike cracked its timing block and grenaded the right side of teh engine and 5 days after I got it back the transmission went out on me (could not shif out of 4th). I am well aware that many people have RT's that are perfect 200k mileage bikes but this is not what happened for me.

 

The problem is, people are buying BMW's because of brand loyalty. This is great if the mark deserves it (and in many ways BMW does deserve it). However, if new-to-BMW riders like myself are turned away from the mark, future BMW brand loyalty people are not filling in the ranks for people leaving the motorcycling world due to attrition.

 

I believe, like someone else above said, that BMW may be at a pivotal point at least in the US. They have shown innovations in the past. They need to show it again and come out with a bike that can compete on its own merits or they may face extinction in the US MC market in the coming years. That would be a terrible shame.

[BamaRider]

Randy dominates. I plan on upgrading next spring to the next generation of sport tourers. As they say in these parts, I've been "kennel blind," (meaning my dog is best because I trained him and he's MINE)to Honda in the past.

 

I prefer Asian bikes, (not that there is anything wrong with other brands) so my choices are down to the ST-FJR. Right now, I'd have to say the FJ is out in front.

 

My questions are-

 

*how many hoops do you have to jump through to buy one? You know, pay NOW, wait several months, then ride. When can a guy just walk down to the dealer and buy one anytime of year? Having such a small window to purchase is crazy.

 

*warranty stats? What are they?

 

[yellowducati900ss]

Do like I did. Find a used one with under 4,000 miles (mine had 883 mi. on it) and purchase it. That way you get to ride the bike (if the person is really cool like my seller was) and you get it when you want it.

 

D&H cycles sells the 5 year Yamaha (Y.E.S) unlimited mile warranty for the FJR for about $350. Can't beat the price, it msrp's at about $720.

 

 

[swmckinley]

Hey screw this Japanese stuff, let's talk Italian bikes......

[VFRLuvr]

I think I'm just going to push my RT into a ditch. It's obviously so behind the times that I wouldn't even be able to sell it.

 

<big snippage happened>

 

RG

 

We didn't get good marks for constructive criticism in school, did we RPG?

 

I don't think most people are saying that the RT wasn't or isn't a good bike. It's just that people are rightly questioning whether the innovative package BMW put together in late 1995 is really all that innovative anymore and worth $16k U.S. dollars when you can get a similar package with arguably a better drivetrain for $3 to $5k less.

 

Many of us who have moved on to other brands stick around here (in addition to the good fellowship) to keep an eye on how BMW is going to update both of the current platforms. A great new K bike might just bring me back to the BMW fold in a few years.

[Tippy]

From the perspective of short riders, here is the key question for evaluating the worthiness of any motorcycle: can the FJR ride height be lowered 2" without upsetting handling or destroying seat comfort and if so, what would be involved?

[Ken/OC]

As in "interested person" in the FJR, I have enjoyed David's review and the whole thread. One thing that occurred to me:

 

Isn't the FJR an ideal cop bike? Low CG, long interval between major services, more power, comfortable (like the RT), and ABS -- a major selling point to law enforcement agencies.

 

One caution here: In a recent review (MCN?) I read that the FJR's ABS wasn't too hot. Any comments on this?

[gosilver]

Remember the saying David "No favour ever goes unpunished"

 

Thank you for a terrific review. Enlightening. Balanced. Informative. Better than most cycle rags offer. What more can one ask?

 

Except perhaps a complete review from you of other RT competitors...I for one would love to read that!

[David]

Isn't the FJR an ideal cop bike? Low CG, long interval between major services, more power, comfortable (like the RT), and ABS -- a major selling point to law enforcement agencies.

 

One caution here: In a recent review (MCN?) I read that the FJR's ABS wasn't too hot. Any comments on this?

 

Ken, I liked the rear ABS actuation. I didn't get any of the "skip over bump" thing some of us have on the RT. I could never get the front ABS to kick in, so that would require more testing.

 

I think the FJR might very well make an excellent police bike. The biggest problem would be alternator output. It would need to be at least 50% greater.

 

Beyond that, Yamaha would have to be committed to the authority market, which they aren't. If anything, I would expect more competition to come from Kawasaki. Word is that the Concours will be updated in the next couple years.

[yellowducati900ss]

Isn't the FJR an ideal cop bike? Low CG, long interval between major services, more power, comfortable (like the RT), and ABS -- a major selling point to law enforcement agencies.

 

Ack!!! Stop it!!!! Do you want to make my pocketbook empty faster than it already does?!

[randy]

Steve I agree lets talk Italian. In 1984 I bought my first new bike a Moto Guzzi SP1000. What a great bike but not very reliable. Well I think, (no facts just a feeling) Aprilla will be doing some good things. I have not ridden the bike yet, but if it turns out to be a good design the new V11 could bring back the Moto Guzzi sport tourer. And David introduced the Ducati to us. I just love the new abs ST4. And finally not sure if Aprilla is Italian, but if it had ABS, I saw a futura where they had removed those mirrors, added side flush mounted turn signals, and added some lower less bulky fairing mounted mirrors, the owner said it cost a total of $150.00 and about three hours work, and I did not even reconize the bike at first, it looked so good. Yea, let's talk Italian, if I had the money, I would have a FJR (wifes bike), 2003 R1150RT, ST4abs, and maybe the new V11 moto guzzi would all be in my garage,with a SV650 track day bike, or a GSXR750. I kind of like the twin so probably sV650. Anyway you are correct I love some of those Italian bikes.

[RPG]

uhmm Brian, David, et al, my post was what you might call "tongue in cheek".

 

RPG

[David]

uhmm Brian, David, et al, my post was what you might call "tongue in cheek".

 

Dang it. I hate wasting time coming up with my usual pithy replies.

[firerider]

If you are choosing between ST or FJR, pick the FJR. Honda is having several heating issues with the new 1300's. A friend of mine went to a rally and a ST 1300 rider showed up with first degree burns from his bike. I have heard these issues from several riders and the FJR is a great bike.

[VFRLuvr]

uhmm Brian, David, et al, my post was what you might call "tongue in cheek".

 

RPG

 

Oh okay, so when are you buying your FJR?

[Ken/OC]

I liked the rear ABS actuation.

 

I believe the review's point was that ABS stopping distance was way long, with lower deceleration Gs than other ABSs they had tested. In any event, it may have been a sample size problem (being one, that is).

 

Re the alternator, even BMW has to beef that up for the authority models. Might be just as easy on the FJR. Or not.

 

In any event, you're right that Yamaha isn't "committed" to the authority market, which certainly makes a difference. And they can't even handle the demand they have now.

[VFRLuvr]

I liked the rear ABS actuation.

 

I believe the review's point was that ABS stopping distance was way long, with lower deceleration Gs than other ABSs they had tested. In any event, it may have been a sample size problem (being one, that is).

 

Re the alternator, even BMW has to beef that up for the authority models. Might be just as easy on the FJR. Or not.

 

In any event, you're right that Yamaha isn't "committed" to the authority market, which certainly makes a difference. And they can't even handle the demand they have now.

 

Actually, I think they can handle the demand just fine but they choose not to. They're creating an artificial market by using this on demand ordering system. They refuse to get burned again by the U.S. "sport touring" market (or in their opinion the lack of one) like they did with the FJ1200 so they're not bringing them here en masse. If they felt they could get away with it they'd probably use this system for the upcoming FZ6 too...btw, could this be even better than the SV650? $6500 is a screamin' deal on these in my opinion.

[chadhargis]

I think the biggest ST hit that Yamaha took was the GTS1000. A great bike, but it didn't sell well.

 

I just got back from the BMWRA rally in Birmingham. The Barber facility is top notch! Very impressive. They were conducting Pridmore's CLASS course on the track and it was fun watching Gixxer 1000s out there with RTs. There was even one of my beloved FJRs out on the track. I got a chance to talk with the rider when it came in for some fuel. He had totally shredded a set of Pilot Sports. It got up to 86 degrees, and I'm sure the asphalt was warmer than that. Tires were melting left and right. A guy on an FZ1 chewed up a set of 020s. It was great fun to watch them run. I was envious, but wouldn't want to chew up MY tires. I'll do a track day where I chew up someone elses tires...and beat on their bike!

 

As for the FJR, I got lots of questions about it. The BMW faithful didn't arch their backs and hiss at me, but instead asked a number of questions about the bike, with more than one person commenting that the FJR is the bike BMW should have built. I don't know about that, but I think BMW has taken note of the ST and the FJR and I'm sure they will come up with a trump card in the next few years. But can they do it for a reasonable price?

 

The bike performed flawlessly. I put on 500 miles today (took some back roads instead of all slab). I find that my 36" inseam cramps my knees a bit, but the stock seat wasn't bad and if I stretched my legs out every so often I was pretty comfortable. I still think a Russell is going to be my Christmas present to myself. The windscreen works great for a person my height. I put it up about half way this morning when the air was cool and stayed warm with my heated grips on low. As it warmed up, I clicked off the grips and lowered the screen. Perfect!

 

My only wish for the FJR is that it had a taller seat. At 6'5" I'm a tad bit cramped leg wise. Of course, I was a tad bit cramped on the GS, and the RT. I had to lower the pegs on my GS to get it comfortable. So that's not really a problem with the bike. The power commander I installed makes the bike smoother, and gives you instant throttle response, but fuel mileage suffered about 2mpg. I used to get about 42 to 43mpg. I turned in 40.8 on the trip today. Much of that was stop and go through small towns and 90mph on the slab.

 

So far, the FJR is everything it's been built up to be. I'm pleased with it.