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R1000RT Loss of power - clutch splines??


rbmw

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I am a newbie to this forum and a first time major wrencher, although I have done routine type maintenance on cars and bikes. Please excuse any incorrect terminolgy or part names.

 

I was riding my 96 R1100RT (39K miles) when I suddendly lost power to the rear wheel. It actually lost almost all power immediately and then over the next minute or so lost remaining power (rear wheel will actually turn slowly if off the ground). I have read a lot of posts and I think it sounds a lot like the clutch hub and input shaft spline issue.

 

I have started disassembling the bike and have gotten to the point where I took off the starter. I can see the clutch plates. I can put the bike in nuetral or hold in the clutch and can turn the rear wheel and see the inner clutch plate spin. When I put the bike in gear and let the clutch out, the tire will turn but the clutch plates do not move at all. It sounds like the final drive is moving and the drive shaft is moving and the noise is at the gearbox/clutch end of the drive shaft where obviously something is slipping that should not be. (I still do not know the proper names for the all gearbox and related components of the clutch)

 

Does this sound like the clutch hub/shaft spline issue? What do I need to do? Check? Replace? at this point.

 

I have the CD shop manual, should I continue under the "remove clutch" procedures?

 

Thanks in advance for any advice, I feel that I have bitten off a lot to chew, but I cannot afford dealer repair at this time.

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Sorry you had to find us this way, but welcome on board.

 

It does sound like splie failure. If you can turn the clutch through the starter appature it is definite. Keep going with the 'replace clutch' procedure. You will probably also have to strip the gearbox to replace the input shaft.

 

It is a big job but tackled methodically it is not too difficult to get down to the clutch - just slow.

 

There is a lot of expertise here, and many people who will have good advice. Feel free to ask any and all questions.

 

Best of luck,

 

Andy

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Sorry you had to find us this way, but welcome on board.

 

It does sound like splie failure. If you can turn the clutch through the starter appature it is definite. Keep going with the 'replace clutch' procedure. You will probably also have to strip the gearbox to replace the input shaft.

 

It is a big job but tackled methodically it is not too difficult to get down to the clutch - just slow.

 

There is a lot of expertise here, and many people who will have good advice. Feel free to ask any and all questions.

 

Best of luck,

 

Andy

 

Andy

 

Remember I am new to wrenching. When you say turn the clutch through the starter appature. What exactly do you mean? With the clutch disengaged, reach in and try to turn the center plate by hand?? If so, with bike in gear or out of gear or does it matter. What about turning the clutch by using the rear wheel as I described in my post above, is that achomplishing the same thing?? Please be as specific as you can.

 

If this is the problem, do you have any idea what parts will need to be replaced and what in general the cost of parts will be?

 

Also, somewhat on an aside, I had to take the ABS control module out during disassembly, I have heard that there is a special vacuum tool needed to bleed the ABS brake system. Is that correct, or can it be reassembled and bled without any special tools or pumps.

 

Thanks Richard

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If you can turn the rear wheel by hand and not view the clutch turning while in gear then the problem is in the drive shaft/rear end or the clutch/splines. You appear to have a failure in one of these components and the one way to tell is to remove the transmission, which allows you easy access to the drive shaft. (You indicated it’s probably in the clutch area)

It takes about 5 hours for the first timer to remove the transmission, and once you do you’ll see the extent of the problem.

 

Your fist step if you’re going to pursue this is to remove the transmission. It is straight forward, but time consuming, because of all the stuff you have to remove. Take pictures as you move along, mark the vent and fuel lines in order to correctly reconnect.

 

Clutch is about $140

The splines on the shaft of the transmission gets expensive as you have to strip the box and replace the shaft. Once you’re in there it becomes check the seals check the dogs etc. It’s about 4 hours of BMW shop time to strip and reassemble the transmission.

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Thanks Edgarr

 

I infer from your post that if it is the tranny, you recommend taking it to the shop for rebuild??? Do you know of any good independants in the metroplex?

 

By the way my father has a K1200 and lives in Desoto.

 

Richard

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Ok guys -- help ---

 

I have completely destroyed (disassembled) my bike. I have removed the transmission. I am looking at the clutch still on the bike and it looks like the splines on the clutch and the slines on the shaft sticking out of the trans are not damaged. Are these the infamous splines (clutch plate and input shaft) that I have heard so much about failing? Or am I looking at something different?

 

They were fairly dry but had some pasty greasy residue on them.

 

What do I need to do from here?

 

I can turn the rear wheel and the final drive turns and the drive shaft turns and the shaft sticking out of the front of the trans (input shaft???) turns.

 

Should I be looking at the clutch now? Remember from my earlier post that when the bike was together, I could turn the rear wheel with the bike in gear and could not see the clutch plate turning when looking into the starter opening if the clutch was engaged, but when pulling in the clutch the center plate would start turning with the rear wheel.

 

I hope all that makes sense.

 

Thanks Richard

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The good news is the splines are OK and at 39K miles it means that you got a good one. So, now to the problem.

 

Is there any sign of oil on or around the clutch> the area should be completely dry. If there is oil can you tell where it is coming from - engine or tranny? If there is oil around this will need to be fixed, luckilly the seals are not to hard to do.

 

If all is dry, measure the thickness of the clutch plate. Minimum is 4.8mm (0.18inch).

If close to this value, replace the plate. If in doubt about the cover and spring replace those as well.

Check the clutch release mechanism is not snagging up anywhere and that the cable is in good order.

 

Andy

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Update

 

I clamped some visegrips on the input shaft and I put the trans in first gear. I am able to turn the rear rotor with some difficulty and something is slipping in the drive assembly. (final drive, drive shaft, trans) What is the most likely? What should I do, remove the final drive??

 

Richard

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What year is your bike?

 

I would check the driveshaft. I think it has a rubber connection in there to absorb shock. It may have let go on you.

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What year is your bike?

 

I would check the driveshaft. I think it has a rubber connection in there to absorb shock. It may have let go on you.

 

1996 39k

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Update

 

I clamped some visegrips on the input shaft and I put the trans in first gear. I am able to turn the rear rotor with some difficulty and something is slipping in the drive assembly. (final drive, drive shaft, trans) What is the most likely? What should I do, remove the final drive??

 

Richard

 

As Paul said, there is a rubber isolator in the FRONT section of your drive shaft. Put the rear Yoke on it and fasten it in a vise. Put a pipe wrench on the front outer steel tube and try to turn the shaft. If it DOES turn, the rubber let go.

 

http://tinyurl.com/kydb6 is a good picture of the shaft.

 

Mick

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I just want to make sure that I made myself clear. The drive shaft seems to turn fine all the way up to the clutch until a load is put on the front end at which point the front end stops turning.

 

I guess what I am asking is the rubber part you are talking about designed such that if it has failed it still would allow the shaft to turn fine when not under a load?? Or is it something that if it has failed then the shaft would in effect be broken and not turn the input shaft at the front end?

 

Thanks for the clarificaton

Richard

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Joe Frickin' Friday
I just want to make sure that I made myself clear. The drive shaft seems to turn fine all the way up to the clutch until a load is put on the front end at which point the front end stops turning.

 

I guess what I am asking is the rubber part you are talking about designed such that if it has failed it still would allow the shaft to turn fine when not under a load??

 

Yes:

 

177.png

 

the "1" points to the middle part of the driveshaft. The left part is a hollow tube filled with rubber, and the right part is stuck in that rubber. If the rubber coupling fails, the right part is still contained in the left part, and the chunks of rubber will still transmit a smidge of torque, enough to turn the rest of the drivetrain if it's not under any load.

 

The two parts of the driveshaft will not fall apart until you remove the final drive from the swingarm. Go to it! thumbsup.gif

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Sounds like you still have the swing arm and FD connected to the tranny, yes? Seperate them and then repeat your test on each.

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Sounds like you still have the swing arm and FD connected to the tranny, yes? Seperate them and then repeat your test on each.

 

Yes I do. Thanks I will try as soon as I get a chance. Should I remove the trans from the driveshaft or the

FD from the driveshaft?? I know I will end up removing both if it turns out that it is the shaft that is bad.

 

By the way just how hard is it to get the bolts on the FD loose. Is it definately required to heat to 120 degrees C in order to break loose?

 

Richard

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Sounds like you still have the swing arm and FD connected to the tranny, yes? Seperate them and then repeat your test on each.

 

Yes I do. Thanks I will try as soon as I get a chance. Should I remove the trans from the driveshaft or the

FD from the driveshaft?? I know I will end up removing both if it turns out that it is the shaft that is bad.

 

By the way just how hard is it to get the bolts on the FD loose. Is it definately required to heat to 120 degrees C in order to break loose?

 

Richard

 

The bolts are held on with red loctite, the heat is a must to shift them or else you can easily strip the threads. Use a hot-air paint stripper gun and the paint will be fine.

It is best to remove both bits but if you start with just the final drive you will find out if the shaft rubber has gone.

 

Andy

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