Jump to content

R1150RT - hard to get into 2nd - Sometimes


eurodat

Recommended Posts

Hi,

 

Bike has 14,000 miles on the clock and occasionally i find it doesn't want to shift DOWN to 2nd without serious effort but seems OK going UP into 2nd. Shifiting down into other gears seems fine.

 

The odd thing is, it will be like this for a whole ride sometimes until I was to, say, stop for fuel (turn off the engine basically) and then get back on the bike and then it may not do it again for the rest of the journey.. confused.gif

 

Any clues please?

Link to comment
ShovelStrokeEd

Ooooo, clutch splines. Bad news.

 

It also could be the shift linkage allowing the lever to bottom out in the side plate. I'd have a look there first.

 

Sorry to present the bad news first but that is an early symptom of clutch spline failure.

Link to comment
Sorry to present the bad news first but that is an early symptom of clutch spline failure.

 

May not even be that early of a sign either. My K was shifting funny for quite a while (missed gears, false neutrals, etc.) but the actual hard downshifting (where it got bad enough to really notice something had changed) only started about a week before the splines finally let go.

Link to comment

oh... deep joy! Its only done 14k but has been having the odd missed gear and false neutral ever since i got it at 9k. I thought it was just me needing to get used to the B M W box after my Pan.

 

I guess there is no easy checks I can carry out? The 2 year warranty has only just expired too... sheeesh!

Link to comment
ShovelStrokeEd

The 2 year warranty has only just expired too... sheeesh!

 

That would explain the problem rearing its ugly head.

 

There is a simple check, it is not 100% but might give you an idea. It is farily simple to pull out the starter and peek in through the hole. A strong torch and a small inspection mirror might help. The bad stuff usually presents as something that looks like rust in and around the transmission main shaft. You can't actually see the clutch splines, but, if the bad stuff is there, you can plan on an expensive service or at least a long weekend in the garage.

Link to comment

Mine is doing this too at about 13k. It gradually started at about 10.5k or so.

 

I've read that it's an early sign of spline failure, but this feels like an improper adjustment or binding linkage. I'm going to check it out tomorrow and I'll post results.

 

Chris

Link to comment
What happens when it finally lets go?
You coast to the side of the road and walk.

 

When the splines shear off power to the rear wheel is lost.

 

Do check out the mentioned linkage issue first before breaking open the kid's college fund. Loose linkage does cause a certian % of theses. Check all of the shft linkage including the shift lever on the shaft entering the tranny case. Maybe you'll get lucky!

Link to comment

eurodat,

 

Check out this post (click) for a good way to tell if you're looking at a pending failure of your splines. You might see my post below about fabricating a tool to attempt to inject some Moly into the splines through the same easy access. I haven't taken one apart since being lubed in this way to see just how far the lube got in, but I did notice an empirical improvement in shifting. Couldn't hurt, might help (or at least confirm your suspicions) and it's one heck of a lot easier that "stink-bugging" your bike. crazy.gif

 

Good luck, and we sure hope you didn't get a "bad one". smirk.gif

Link to comment

Hmm, starter motor off. Didn't seem to be any slack in the gear shift linkages (bad in this case I guess) but also there does not seem to be any visible signs of wear or rust etc on the splines or in the adjecent areas (good). I better read more of the posts and work out just how i check for wear in the splines.. brb. Help, trying to see how much rock i have on the clutch plates as per the test for wear mentined elsewhere - i have strapped the clutch lever open but cant seem to get anything to rotate down around the clutch and flywheel.. should i put the bike in gear and rock it or something?

 

On closer inspection I can see some very slight pitting on 2 of the splines but not what I would call wear. I am trying to fathom out how do do this test where i slightly rotate the clutch plates as linked to above. Do i have the bike in gear and rock it ? Any help on how I achieve this most gratefully received smile.gif

Link to comment

Evening, Steve.

 

Before securing the clutch lever in, put the bike on the center stand and shift it to sixth gear. While looking at the clutch through the hole where the starter was, bump the rear wheel which will turn the clutch assembly. Using a bright torch, watch the clutch go by until you see a spot where you can see the outside edge of the friction plate, then stop. Tie up the clutch lever (or have someone hold it in) then use something long and fairly sharp to poke the edge of the clutch plate and wiggle it back and forth feeling for the amount of slop. Compare that to the figures Rick (Cali Kid) gave in the previously referenced post.

 

Gotta Run. Good luck!

Link to comment
Evening, Steve.

 

Before securing the clutch lever in, put the bike on the center stand and shift it to sixth gear. While looking at the clutch through the hole where the starter was, bump the rear wheel which will turn the clutch assembly. Using a bright torch, watch the clutch go by until you see a spot where you can see the outside edge of the friction plate, then stop. Tie up the clutch lever (or have someone hold it in) then use something long and fairly sharp to poke the edge of the clutch plate and wiggle it back and forth feeling for the amount of slop. Compare that to the figures Rick (Cali Kid) gave in the previously referenced post.

 

Gotta Run. Good luck!

 

You are a gent.. thanks for the good wishes.. and guess what.. no more than 1/8th of an inch of play smile.gif.

 

I guess I can relax a little about it failing in the next few miles but there is still the little issue of it wearing out eventually if I don't get it lubed up.

 

From all the posts on this excellent forum it appears that a deep strip is the only sure way. At least I know how to keep a check on it now though.

 

Thanks to all for their help (cali kid deserves a special mention here)

 

Time to put the bike togeter again and enjoy this UK heatwave...

Link to comment
Mark Menard (Vita Rara)
May not even be that early of a sign either. My K was shifting funny for quite a while (missed gears, false neutrals, etc.) but the actual hard downshifting (where it got bad enough to really notice something had changed) only started about a week before the splines finally let go.

 

And mine started having issues downshifting a year before I got the gumption up to take it apart and lube the splines. They were rusty, but almost no sign of wear. I lubed them and the shifting completely smoothed out.

 

Between the time that it started to act up and when I lubed it I took to what I would consider an assertive style of shifting with minimal or no use of clutch. I ALWAYS preloaded, used the throttle and "thought" about using the clutch. I figured this would minimize the engagement and disengagement from the splines, giving me time. It seems to have worked, and my shifting became much much smoother.

 

Just my $0.02(US),

 

Mark

Link to comment

I had the same symptoms after I bought my used R1100RT-P. I took it apart hoping to find dry but intact splines. I took it apart to find wasted clutch splines, and razor-blade shaped output shaft splines. Bottom line, you have to take the tranny out, inspect, lube and reassemble (if splines are all good). Trying to 'Mickey-Mouse' it will only lead to heartache later. If you are just trying to 'dump' the bike, maybe... but not good karma. If you manage to force some lube into un-seen and un-known condition splines, you are playing Russian roulette. My bike felt good, and shifted most of the time. If I didn't see these splines, I never would have believed it (how bad they are). If I had accelerated hard in an attempt to get out of the way of a bad situation.... or for any other reason, the almost non-existent splines would surely have let go. Go the whole distance, you will be better off. You will know what's what. Just my thought. I wish you Good luck! Hal

Link to comment

I had the same symptoms after I bought my used R1100RT-

 

Agreed - if the symptoms persist I am going to have to go for the deep strip but that's a job for the winter. Once the splines

are lubricated does it mean the problems are gone or is this bike really only for the 'gentle rider'. I ride mine hard as I ride with 'crotch rocketeers' but now i think i may have to consider a different bike. frown.gif

 

Just how 'Mickey Mouse' is the check I have Just carried out? The clutch plates don't seem to have much rotational play so isn't this a sign that the splines are more or less healthy?

 

Did BMW cotton on to this issue at some point or have they NEVER lubricated these splines during initial assembly of the engines? If not, then surely we must have some comeback when they fail?

Link to comment
Did BMW cotton on to this issue at some point or have they NEVER lubricated these splines during initial assembly of the engines? If not, then surely we must have some comeback when they fail?

 

BMW has repaired several bikes with the mis-alignment problem. Sometimes they replace the entire transmission and other times they tell you it's normal for the splines to fail if you ride it hard. Depends on the dealer.

This is NOT a lubrication issue. The inut shaft splines and clutch hub splines should be lubricated lightly on assembly but after that, you should never need to go back in there until the friction disc needs replacement. I've seen R1100's and K1100's with over 130K miles on the original clutch and absolutely no wear was present on the hub splines or the input shaft.

If you have the mis-alignment problem, no amount of inspection/lubrication will prevent the splines from being destroyed at 25-35K intervals. JMHO

 

Mick

Tucson

Link to comment

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...