Oil on clutch - Felt washer/ring - clutch pushrod area ???

[TREE]

Got a question on a friend's 96 R11RS, clutch has some oil contamination, mechanic says it appears to be coming out of pushrod hole in centre of input shaft.

The fiche drawing lists a felt washer number 23211230440 but does not show it.

He said there appears to be no felt ring visible.

Is it hiding in there somewhere ?

 

Is this pushrodshaft hole a likely source for oil ? I doubt it as there is no oil source at either end of pushrod.

I suspect the input shaft main seal is the only source for oil.

 

Thanks.

[Edgar]

When oil is leaking from the end of the pushrod there’s a high probability that the seals in the transmission are leaking. When the seals leak the oil goes down the inside of the shaft and exits along side the push rod. The fix will require replacing the clutch friction plate and splitting the case on the transmission to replace the seals. I believe there are 4 seals and you should change all of them. The seals are about $50 for the set, and about 4 hours of shop time to service the transmission. I would not concern myself with the felt seal as that is not the root cause of the problem.

[TREE]

Thanks, good chance it is the rear seal feeding oil up the pushrod, wrench thinks the front input shaft seal is ok.

[matanuska]

...The fiche drawing lists a felt washer number 23211230440 but does not show it.

He said there appears to be no felt ring visible.

Is it hiding in there somewhere...

 

Could be. When I replaced my clutch, there was no felt washer to be found even though listed on the parts list. In fact, the old pushrod had no notch for a felt ring. The new replacement pushrod I received had a notch and I installed a felt ring.

 

[SWB]

When oil is leaking from the end of the pushrod there’s a high probability that the seals in the transmission are leaking. When the seals leak the oil goes down the inside of the shaft and exits along side the push rod. The fix will require replacing the clutch friction plate and splitting the case on the transmission to replace the seals. I believe there are 4 seals and you should change all of them. The seals are about $50 for the set, and about 4 hours of shop time to service the transmission. I would not concern myself with the felt seal as that is not the root cause of the problem.

 

To "TREE":

 

The "SEALS" fit around the bearing shafts and bearings. Although seals are rubber, and rubber can harden and/or deteriorate in about four years, shaft seals usually last longer because they aren't exposed to the oxidizing effects of sunlight and air (plus heat seems to reverse some of the chemical effects of oxidation, and seals get hot). The bottom line is, whenever seals fail in one of my bikes, it's usually a failing bearing that's caused the seal to fail. If the bearings are good, the shafts will be good, but if the bearings have failed, runout on the shafts will need to be checked (i.e. because shaft damage is usually caused by bearing failures). Problems with either the gearbox shafts or seals will "toast" a set of new seals very quickly.

 

We've been able to replace some of the outside seals on our dirt bikes by picking them out and pressing them in without spliting the tranny case. From looking at the BMW manual, it appears that pressing in new seals on the R1100 bikes can only be done from the inside out, i.e. the cases would have to be split. However, the manual mentions that their's an oil seal behind the idle switch that apparently can be picked out and replaced without splitting the cases. So, you'll want to verify the source of the oil before you split the case (i.e. at clutch disassembly). Maybe you'll get lucky and it'll only be the neutral switch shaft seal.

 

If I ever have to split my transmission case, I'm going to disassemble and check every dang bearing, fork, and gear, and replace anything with the slightest wear. "In for a penny, in for a pound..". We've overhauled one transmission before, but most of the time, we tear down the bike, and drop of the tranny to a local specialist we trust, and tell him to "go through it". I don't know what the mileage is on your friends '96, but at ten years old, the tranny might need some TLC.

[TREE]

Nice to know where the new felt lives on the new notched shaft

I pulled my tranny last month and have the old shaft. No leaks but needed new clutch at 100K.

 

His bike is low miles ( under 20K I think ) but the clutch was down to the rivets as the previous owner had the pushrod adjusted too tight.

The wrench is looking at it now to determine the oil source coming up the pushrod.

Thanks guys, this site always rocks.

[Ken H.]

The only purpose of the felt ring is to center the push rod. It serves no sealing purpose. As mentioned a seal elsewhere is the core problem.

[TREE]

Looks like the rear seal, the rear boot was full of oil, oil was running forward on the pushrod. Wrench will install new seals.