millemike Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 Has anyone had any issue with the left fork rubbing on the plastic tank that usually is tucked up inside the left fairing? Last week I was riding home from work, went to get off the highway and I had to manhandle the bike off the ramp. I pulled over and found that there was some plastic box that was rubbing the left fork. It was sort of twisted into the fork. It wouldn't budge when I tried to move it. I babied it home and put it in the garage. The next morning, it was back to normal, no rubbing. There were marks on the forks and the tank where they scraped together. The dealer has the bike now, confirmed the rubbing from the marks. They took it apart to find that nothing was broken, loose, etc. The told me that the plasic box is a part of the gas tank. I am guessing that either the heat from the sun or maybe the pressure in the tank caused the tank to deform somehow. Very scary indeed. I'm a bit afraid to throw the fiancee on the back and have this happen again. Anyone have any ideas or hear of anything like this happening before? Thanks Mike Link to comment
Mudman Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 Two things I can think of with what little we know; 1. The popular tank filler mod will allow less room for fuel expansion, especially when it is very hot. Is you fuel tank filler stock? 2. The repair manual has specific torque specs and procedures when replacing a fuel tank that has been removed for service for example. There are multi-piece plastic collars for the fuel tank mounting bolts, they must be installed correctly. and the securing bolts torqued to 16 Nm to avoid crushing them. Just a couple of WAGs. good luck at finding the root cause. That is a very scarey problem Link to comment
black99S Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 another WAG Is your vent hose blocked or kinked? Vacuum can distort any fuel tank, but usually the engine runs rough or without power then stalls if you are pulling a vacuum ...... Link to comment
millemike Posted June 28, 2006 Author Share Posted June 28, 2006 The bike is bone stock. The only work that has been done on it is me changing the oil once and the shop doing the first service and the 6K service. It runs fine, no sputtering or anything like that. I decided not to take it apart myself, so that there would be no warrentee issues. It is still sitting at the shop, so I can't go and check for kinked hoses. They took it apart on Saturday and said everything looked fine. I guess I'll wait and see what the BMW rep comes back with. -Mike Link to comment
millemike Posted June 28, 2006 Author Share Posted June 28, 2006 The BMW shop finally reproduced the issue at the shop. They have a list of things that it could be after calling BMW. Vaccuum, charcoal canister, defective valves.. basically the pressure in the tank it messed up and they watched that part of the tank move and touch the fork. Scary. I guess I feel better knowing that it can be fixed. Just hope it doesn't happen again.. or to anyone else. I'll post what the exact problem was when they figure it out. -Mike Link to comment
ScottT Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 I have had my RT apart and the gas tank removed many times and there is no "plastic box" that is part of the tank on the left side of the fairing. There is the charcoal canister on the right side under fairing but it is not part of the tank. The glove box is also on the right side but it is not part of the tank and is very securely bolted in. It stays in place when the tank is removed. I've had my RT for 14 months and 20k miles, do my own maintenance and based on what you've described, I do not buy your story. Perhaps you could post a photograph of the offending "box"? Link to comment
millemike Posted June 29, 2006 Author Share Posted June 29, 2006 When I get my bike back, I'll take a picture for you. Personally I thought it looked like some sort of air intake, but they told me it was part of the tank. It is a black enclosure that is securely fastened to the left fairing. The horn is actually bolted to the end of it. It doesn't move if you try to shake it. I didn't try to monkey with it, because I wanted them to find the issue. You may not believe it, but it happened. They didn't believe me either until they ran the bike for a while and watched the damn piece of plastic move. Link to comment
ScottT Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 The horn is actually bolted to the end of it. Hi Mike. The front, lower horn is bolted to the fairing bracket, right next to the lower part of the tank which is one big peice of plastic. You say this part is bolted to left fairing. NOTHING should be bolted to the fairing panels. It sounds like you have something that is not supposed to be there. Is your RT a 2005 or 2006? I am basing all of my comments on my 2005. I do look forward to seeing some pics of this thing. Link to comment
Ken H. Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 Well this one has certainly got my curiosity up at any rate! OP - Can you identify the offending piece in any of these views? One Two Three Link to comment
millemike Posted June 29, 2006 Author Share Posted June 29, 2006 Maybe it's the intake manifold in picture 2. My bike is a 2005. They told me it was the tank. I even forgot what my bike looks like.. since they have had it for over a week now. I'll have to give them a buzz today and see if they figured anything out yet and maybe get some more details on what exactly that piece is. Link to comment
ScottT Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 Mike, the intake manifold is on the RIGHT side of the bike, not the left as you described earlier. The right side as you sit on the bike. The dealer has had your bike for a week over this? Just another reason why I do my own maintenance. Link to comment
millemike Posted June 29, 2006 Author Share Posted June 29, 2006 I live in the Northeast.. so I haven't been on their case because it has been raining like crazy... plus I have a second bike as a spare and they know that. I just need it back for the 4th weekend. My fiancee doesn't like riding on the back of my Aprilia Mille. Link to comment
ChrisA Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 The horn is actually bolted to the end of it. Hi Mike. The front, lower horn is bolted to the fairing bracket, right next to the lower part of the tank which is one big peice of plastic. You say this part is bolted to left fairing. NOTHING should be bolted to the fairing panels. It sounds like you have something that is not supposed to be there. Is your RT a 2005 or 2006? I am basing all of my comments on my 2005. I do look forward to seeing some pics of this thing. I just looked at my '05 model and it is the gas tank down there. I can see where you might think the horn is mounted to it, but it is not. My fork comes close to the tank, but still at least a couple inches of clearance at full turn. The tank actually looks to be somewhat molded around where the fork gets close. Look right about where the #1 is and that is the offending area I believe. Gas tank Link to comment
millemike Posted June 30, 2006 Author Share Posted June 30, 2006 Just got off the phone with the mechanic at the shop. It is the gas tank that hit the fork. I guess to reproduce it they had to let it sit in the sun for a while, then take it for a long ride. As the gas is being consumed, the venting system was not letting air back into the tank.. so this in conjuction with the hot plastic tank caused the tank to "contort" in strange ways, and that one part of the tank happens to twist and hit the fork. They are replacing the charcoal canister and some valve that is in that system... of course the parts are not in yet, so they still have my ride. He mentioned that BMW told him to modify something as well to help prevent it?? I couldn't hear him well because of background noise while he was on the phone, so I am not quite sure what changes they made. Link to comment
Mudman Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Thanks for the update. It looks like blk99s nailed it correctly when he said the vent line. In your case the engine would continue to run correctly because the fuel pump will easily overcome the fuel starvation a gravity system would display. I will deffeinitely keep a close eye on the vent system now we know the outcome of the tank distorting on this model. Link to comment
jdos2 Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Ew! Sounds like the standard Guzzi V-11 Sport's mis-installed tipover valve. The gas-tank would GROW by several inches when getting gas unless someone went through the trouble of removing the gas tank and installing the valve correctly... J Link to comment
Mudman Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 I just looked at my clearance on my 06 RT. It has at least 2 inches if clearance so I will go back to my original thoughts. In addition to a venting problem your tank might not be mounted correctly. My bike had the clutch recall done before I took delivery. When I got home (550 miles later ). I took off the panels to check things out and do the 600 mile service. Guess what, the fasteners and the related collars were on wrong with one fastener not having any gasket or collar. I found that collar and gasket in front of the air box! I reassembled and noted the fuel tank was definitely shifted from the position it was squeezed into at first. The upper panels even fit better without strain or force. If your tank was off for any reason have this checked too. That 2 inch clearance I mentioned is between the dished out forward tank and the left suspension tube while the steering is straight ahead. Good Luck! Link to comment
ChrisA Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Thanks for the update. It looks like blk99s nailed it correctly when he said the vent line. In your case the engine would continue to run correctly because the fuel pump will easily overcome the fuel starvation a gravity system would display. I will deffeinitely keep a close eye on the vent system now we know the outcome of the tank distorting on this model. I wouldn't even know where to begin to keep an eye on the venting system. Can someone give me a pointer or two? Link to comment
ScottT Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 So the gas tank ballooned out??!!! YIKES!!!! I'm glad it didn't spring a leak on you. At any rate thanks very much for letting us know. I didn't realize something this severe could happen if the vent line was plugged up or pinched. Link to comment
Mudman Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 The tank is vented to the charcoal canister at the right front of the RT under the panels. The line connects to the left top tank where the fuel lines are attached. If it is installed correctly there should be not maintenance issues. Clues of trouble might include pressure release when opening the fueling cap or difficulty opening the cap due to vacuum (sucking sound ). The vent line should keep the tank pressure neutral to it's surroundings. Small amounts of pressure or vacuum should be considered normal. Link to comment
KiwiAdventure Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 I understand the US is the only country which has the charcoal canister Link to comment
Satguy Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 Yes, only in America! No carbon canisters in Canada either. Link to comment
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