'04 R1150RT Alternator Belt?

[Laffo IBA#34115]

I suspect my alternator belt is beginning to fray. The symptoms are a horrible grinding noise just after it starts and the light stays on for 5 - 10 seconds. After that everything seems fine. This happened 3 weeks ago and the first thing I did was make a service appointment as the bike is still under warranty. I have just under 22K miles on it.

My question is this... Should I start it one more time and ride it to the dealer (96 miles away) or trailer it?

It only did this a couple times until I got home from a ride.

What's the worst thing that could happen besides a dead battery and a call to a tow company?

[Hedge36]

It's under warranty - let the dealer come pick it up Or ride it in, and if the battery craps out it's under warranty as well.

[Laffo IBA#34115]

BMW dealers lower themselves to come and get your bike? Where do you live?

[Hedge36]

Marin BMW'd do it, no question. The other dealer near me probably would too, as the owners live just up the road from me.

 

That's how they keep customers.

 

Then again, I never have them wrenching on my bikes, so YMMV.

[Jim Moore]

I doubt the the belt will be a warranty item. Why not just fix it yourself?

[majordad]

if you have to take it in, trailor it because you'd wished you did if the bike breaks down along the way.

[johnv]

22K miles seems low for the belt to be worn. Why don't you have a look at it yourself before you ride the bike again. It will take you five minutes to remove the four bolts that hold the front cover. You won't be able to remove the cover completely with the shark fin in place, but at least you will be able to inspect the belt for wear.

[Hedge36]

22K miles seems low for the belt to be worn. Why don't you have a look at it yourself before you ride the bike again. It will take you five minutes to remove the four bolts that hold the front cover. You won't be able to remove the cover completely with the shark fin in place, but at least you will be able to inspect the belt for wear.

 

Ding ding ding! Winner

[bmwmick]

I suspect my alternator belt is beginning to fray. The symptoms are a horrible grinding noise just after it starts and the light stays on for 5 - 10 seconds. After that everything seems fine. This happened 3 weeks ago and the first thing I did was make a service appointment as the bike is still under warranty. I have just under 22K miles on it.

My question is this... Should I start it one more time and ride it to the dealer (96 miles away) or trailer it?

It only did this a couple times until I got home from a ride.

What's the worst thing that could happen besides a dead battery and a call to a tow company?

 

This sounds more like a sticking starter solenoid. If it sticks, the starter motor stays engaged with the engine running. The heavy current draw could be keeping the ALT lamp on until the solenoid drops out. If the Alt belt is fraying, you would have a constant 'whap, whap, whap' as it impacts the belt cover and eventually tears up the HES wiring cable. It would NOT go away.

I would probably pull the left side body work off, disconnect the negative cable from the battery and remove and inspect the starter and solenoid. A clean and lube may be in order.

 

Mick

[flars]

The alt light will always stay on (unless you use the high idle lever) until you blip the throttle, which will increase the voltage/current to the point that overcomes the 'I'm not charging' threshold. That's the way the light works. If the light goes out, you have no alt problem. Alt belts are not warranty items, unless you have REALLY kissed up to your dealer when you bought it (as in, you paid so much for it, you helped send his kids to law school ).

As noted by others, 22K is usually too early for a belt problem, but it has been known to happen. Replacing one is very easy once you get the tupperware off.

Unless the dealer is a LONNNNNGGGG way away, you can ride it there. A broken belt won't stop you immediately. A good battery will keep you going for a while after the belt breaks (which would be indicated by the alt light coming back on, usually accompanied by some squealing, flapping, thumping sounds ).

'A horrible grinding' sounds like a sticking starter, and that is a warranty item. When strange sounds occur, we immediately start looking for causes, as in "Hey wait! I never noticed that red light on the dash before, and how long has it been on???" So the light and the sound are probably not connected.

[Deadboy]

I am afraid you are getting some bunk advice (which I rarely see happen on this board). An alternator belt is 100% a warranty item, and anyone who tells you otherwise must have really pissed off their dealer. Personally I wouldn't hesitate to ride it in, but have someone on standby just in case...mine started to fray long before it died, and my dealership did cover it once I got it in (had to install a NAPA special in upstate NY to get mine back to California).

 

This item is supposed to last 36K according to BMW, anything less (provided you are still within the 3 years) is a warranty claim......

[Hedge36]

This item is supposed to last 36K according to BMW, anything less (provided you are still within the 3 years) is a warranty claim......

 

I'm not sure the one on my RT-P didn't go the full 60K That mofo had the better part of three ribs gone and felt like wicker when I took it off. Still worked, though.

[Laffo IBA#34115]

Ok folks, thanks for the inputs. I am going out to the garage now to take the cover off and check the belt, although it still sound as if the solenoid (starter) may be suspect. If the belt is good (or not visibly bad), I don't see how I can avoid the dealer at this point. My appointment is tomorrow.

 

And while I'm on this rant, the only thing I don't like about owning this bike is that the dealer is 96 miles away. Then there is the 3-6 week appointment delay. I have one other dealer (Battley's aka Rockville HD) but flatly refuse to take it back there again after the last butcher job.

 

Besides all you self-wrenchers, how do you all deal with this?

[Hedge36]

I console myself with the knowledge that I'm saving thousands of dollars per year on HD "lifestyle" clothing and accessories

[Laffo IBA#34115]

Great point forgot about that one. The belt looks OK to me so I'm going to risk all and ride it, if'n it starts in the morning.

 

Thanks all again!

[beemerboy]

......This item is supposed to last 36K according to BMW, anything less (provided you are still within the 3 years) is a warranty claim......

 

I bought a spare belt two years ago to carry for emergencies. I decided to install it prior to leaving for Gunny '06 and was shocked at the sight of my original belt.

 

Bits and pieces of belt fell out when I removed the cover and all but 1 1/2 of the internal belt rib rows was gone. The belt also had a 3" long split in the middle, this was done with 29.5K miles on the clock.

 

I doubt I'll wait until I hit 60K to replace the new belt!

[bwr]

And while I'm on this rant, the only thing I don't like about owning this bike is that the dealer is 96 miles away.

 

You're lucky -- your dealer is CLOSE. Some of us have to go hundreds of miles to get to a dealer!

[Laffo IBA#34115]

UPDATE - OK, all.... the verdict is in. Dewey said the starter was "dry". He replaced it. Dewey said the alternator belt was somewhat loose so he tightened it but that that was not, repeat not the noise. Dewey said my injector coil was bad so he replaced it. He also said that an air screw was closed all the was so he adjusted the balance. Truly, it must have always had a dry starter because it really has never started so good. And now it runs great too. Betch y'all didn't know you had to wet your starters, did you? BTW, I rode it.

 

My thanks to Dewey @ Morton's BMW - Spotsylvania, VA)

[SLOSapo]

Even though the problem turned out not to be the alternator belt, the discussion about belt wear was timely for me because my 2002 RT recently shredded its belt about 60 miles from home. For future reference, I tried to make it home, but the battery gave up after 30 miles.

 

What bothers me somewhat is that the bike has 26k on the odometer and was dealer serviced last fall at 24k. Assuming it looked okay when inspected, is it reasonable that the thing could then self-destruct in 2k?

 

Anyway, I pulled the cover today and ordered a replacement belt (MY dealer is 220 miles away). And now a couple of questions for you all, if you don't mind:

 

1) Since I can't get the special BMW tensioning tool, does jamming two nuts on the adjusting screw work okay for tensioning the belt? I understand that proper tension seems to be when you can twist the belt 90 degrees.

 

2) Is there anything inside the alternator case that could be damaged by flying bits of shredded belt? What should I look for?

 

Thanks.

[Hedge36]

1. Easier (for me, anyway): loosen the mount bolts and use a soft prybar to wedge up on the alternator from the left side. Tighten when you get the 90 degree tension.

 

2. Just clean out the bits. Unless you see something really strange in there, you should be good to go.

[Deadboy]

Mine went out at 19K....I found a small rock had gotten into the "vent" holes in the cover (it fell out when I opened it)....I would suspect either your dealer didn't inspect the belt at 24K and it has been going for a while or something similar happened to yours...

 

As for only making it 30 miles, the 1150's use much more power (brakes for one thing) so the battery is said to die much faster....

[Hedge36]

Mine went out at 19K....I found a small rock had gotten into the "vent" holes in the cover (it fell out when I opened it)....I would suspect either your dealer didn't inspect the belt at 24K and it has been going for a while or something similar happened to yours...

 

As for only making it 30 miles, the 1150's use much more power (brakes for one thing) so the battery is said to die much faster....

 

More likely that the belt wasn't grabbing for 500 or so miles before that and the battery had been going flat for a while.

[peterbulgar]

And while I'm on this rant, the only thing I don't like about owning this bike is that the dealer is 96 miles away.

I have two very good dealers within 50 miles, and another two less than 10 miles away, so I'm lucky. With as much esoteric technology as there is on these bikes - ABS, CAN Bus on the newer 1200s, Motronic computer, etc. - I'd be very hesitant to buy a new BMW if I didn't have a good dealer close by unless I were a much better mechanic than I am.

 

My bike is in the shop for a 30k service (a bit early at 28.2k miles) and a new rear tire. I also asked them to replace the alternator belt even though the protocol is to replace it at 36k. I'm heading off on a long trip next week and didn't want to have to think about it. The discussion on this post has made me glad of my decision.

Peter '73 R75/5, '04 R1150RA

[Hedge36]

With airheads (and 1100RTs), you carry a spare clutch cable. WIth oilheads, you carry a spare belt.

 

Doing so ensures that you'll never need it

[Bob Palin]

Doing so ensures that you'll never need it

In this case it certainly does not, I'm on #7 in 106K. Jamie and Leslie have had two roadside replacements while carrying a spare.

[KMG_365]

Doing so ensures that you'll never need it

In this case it certainly does not, I'm on #7 in 106K. Jamie and Leslie have had two roadside replacements while carrying a spare.

Three and a half actually . . . but who's counting?

[Tank]

I got to Gunnison, found a spair belt in the tool kit i carry when Randy and i tore his bike down to repair his broken sub-frame, and another one under my seat. So i have found that carrying two belts will not ensure that someone elses bike will not need repair

[SAAB93driver]

I now have 2 spares. One new one and one that I took off my 1100RS that still looks almost new even after 36K miles. At 30K miles the belt on my R1150RS looks almost new as well, I couldn't bring myself to needlessly replace it.

 

I don't believe I am all that lucky. Frequent failures must have pulley alignment issues from the factory or other underlying problems as all 3 of the oilheads I have owned the belts have always looked very good even after 30K miles.

[ESokoloff]

 

I don't believe I am all that lucky. Frequent failures must have pulley alignment issues from the factory or other underlying problems as all 3 of the oilheads I have owned the belts have always looked very good even after 30K miles.

 

Do you use a lot of power?

Some of us run more lights then others & thus tax the charging system (including belt) more then others.

[SAAB93driver]

Not much accessories other than running lights, but I have servo brakes on the 1150 which have been know tax the charging system.

 

I deal with PT items in my profession, couplings more than belts but misalignment / installation problems are more typical modes of failure than overload, especially on single set electrical systems where there are no sychronizaton with other gensets - similar to an alternator system on a car/bike.

[ESokoloff]

Besides excessive load, another consideration in belt longevity would be proper tension.

I've worked in the HVAC (air conditioning trade) & found that if the belt(s) are too loose excessive wear occurs to belt(s) & sheaves. Too tight & bearings can be damaged.

I had an AMC Jeep J-10 truck with a single serpentine belt & five different sheaves. I don't remember if it was the smog pump or alternator that was out of alignment. When the humidity was high the belt chirped constantly due to this miss alignment.

I would hope that BMW could build an R motor with the two sheaves in proper alignment. If the sheaves are the same thickness its easy to check with a string strung(tight & straight) across all(four) sheave edges.

[SAAB93driver]

Agreed, and it is worth checking both.

[KMG_365]

Besides excessive load, another consideration in belt longevity would be proper tension.

I've worked in the HVAC (air conditioning trade) & found that if the belt(s) are too loose excessive wear occurs to belt(s) & sheaves. Too tight & bearings can be damaged.

I had an AMC Jeep J-10 truck with a single serpentine belt & five different sheaves. I don't remember if it was the smog pump or alternator that was out of alignment. When the humidity was high the belt chirped constantly due to this miss alignment.

I would hope that BMW could build an R motor with the two sheaves in proper alignment. If the sheaves are the same thickness its easy to check with a string strung(tight & straight) across all(four) sheave edges.

Hi Eric,

 

Thanks for the tip. I'll try to remember to check my alignment when I replace my current one . . . which I think is due again already!

 

As far as other causes for our bikes' (now both Leslie and I) appetite for belts: we both run 100 watts of amber Motolights all the time, the fog lights all the time, and the highbeam during daylight (which is when we do most of our riding together). We also both have the Kisan signal minder which turns all four signal lights into running lights, rear facing hyperlights and the rest of the electronics (Autocom, Kenwood 2W GMRS radio, XM radio and V-1) have a smaller, yet still constant drain on the battery.

 

Combine that with half of the belt's life being spent at brisk sporting speeds (lots of engine braking in the mountians) and/or through blistering desert heat I guess I should not be surprized. The IBR where so many oilheads were sidelined by alternator belt failures is also understandable when you consider more 1150's now in use (the 1100's rarely had belt failures) and the IBR guys load their alternators pretty heavily (riding 24/7 for weeks and frequently with heated gear and enough gadgets to make even ME blush! ).

 

BMW has also obviously recognised this problem due to them issuing the service bulletin recommending re-tensioning after 6k initial stretch on the 1150's and then re-designing the pulleys in the 1150's built after June of 2003. The later belts and pulleys are different part numbers and I think the pulleys are around twice the price!

[Ken H.]

Jamie, What's your method of checking/setting the belt's tension? You two seeming to have more than your fair share of failures...

[bmwmick]

Jamie,

The pulleys are more expensive because the upper one (ALT) is the new Freewheel Pulley.

 

I'm not sure you can still find the original posts regarding that new system since a lot of older stuff seems to have disappeared from this board. Wonder why.......

 

Mick

[KMG_365]

The pulleys are more expensive because the upper one (ALT) is the new Freewheel Pulley.

 

I'm not sure you can still find the original posts regarding that new system since a lot of older stuff seems to have disappeared from this board. Wonder why.......

 

Mick

I'll go look for them and try to "keep" them if they're still there. But it's not malicious--the posts to the Oilheads Forum are set to auto delete after three years unless "kept" by a Mod. On that point, if anyone sees a good thread with valuable info that should be archived, please notify me (or another Mod) so we can grab it before it drops into the bit bucket. I'm sure the freewheeling pulley was another attempt at easing the wear on the belt to extend its life. I'm going to need a new alternator before the bike gives up the ghost. Hmmmmmmm . . . .

 

Jamie, What's your method of checking/setting the belt's tension? You two seeming to have more than your fair share of failures...

That would be the next logical variable considering our "issues", but we are by far not the only ones with this problem.

 

We may also have more contributing factors against us (including the frequency due to the high miles) and have posted more about them as well.

 

But to answer your question: I have tried just about every method: BMW nut/spring/torque wrench from the front; hex driver/swivel/extension/torque wrench from the rear; large screwdriver levering up the alternator; etc. In comparing the belt tension by feel after using the proper "official" tensioning methods I thought I had developed a good "sense" of what the correct tension should feel like. I realize that alone is not reliable method: sometimes the belt is warmer and twists more easily, sometimes the bike has sat and it's a cold day in the garage, etc. I've never heard the belt slipping, so maybe I should err towards the looser side of the range, but 7Nm of torque on the cog doesn't seem to leave a lot of leeway to slacken it up much.

 

**sigh**

[SAAB93driver]

Just thinking out loud,,,

I'm not sure how much work you are willing to put into finding the problem but ut might be worthwhile to take a temperature measurements on the belt with an IR temp gun and do the same on a non problematic bike to see if excess heat is being generated in the belt. It would require removing the cover obviously and it would be a little more diffiult to do it on a continuous basis, but maybe a short experiment taking both bikes through the same paces and then take the measurements.

 

High speed photography or observation under a stroble might also help determine if the belts are fluttering or moving in some other way or not.

[KMG_365]

. . . but it might be worthwhile to take a temperature measurements on the belt with an IR temp gun and do the same on a non problematic bike to see if excess heat is being generated in the belt.

Well I think the problem there would be to find a non problematic bike that is ridden under the same circumstances.

High speed photography or observation under a stroble might also help determine if the belts are fluttering or moving in some other way or not.

I thought that perhaps it was just my bike that had some sort of pulley/bearing problem, but now that Leslie's bike is developing the early failure syndrome as well, it could also be the age of the bikes, in addition to the punishment we subject our belts to. I just rolled over 110,000 miles this trip and Leslie is coming up on 116,000 miles--both of us are on the original everything (bearings, pulleys, etc.).

 

I plan on checking pulley alignment when I change my belt next time and I'm also going to try one of the non-BMW alternatives next time and see if they last any longer. I might even run one until it fails just for the good of the order: now that I know I can swap it out in under an hour . . . even on the side of the road!

[LDHack]

. . .I just rolled over 110,000 miles this trip and Leslie is coming up on 116,000 miles--both of us are on the original everything (bearings, pulleys, etc

My first belt failed on my 1150RT at 36k, while on the road. I did replace it on the road; I carry a spare, and it came from NAPA, not BMW. That belt has served me for 32k, and I just replaced it with a duplicate belt, in preparation for some long riding in August.

 

My question, how many miles can I get off my alternator burshes? I run high output lights at night, along with heated riding pants/jacket. Have you and Leslie, with your 100 watt Motolites had to replace brushes? That alternator is sure buried deep behind the front suspension spring and deep in the engine housing...

[KMG_365]

My question, how many miles can I get off my alternator brushes? I run high output lights at night, along with heated riding pants/jacket. Have you and Leslie, with your 100 watt Motolites had to replace brushes? That alternator is sure buried deep behind the front suspension spring and deep in the engine housing...

As stated: "both of us are on the original everything" and we haven't had to get into it at that level . . . yet!

 

I'm harboring a growing concern that perhaps the alternator bearings are geting worn, a pronounced wobble of the pulley caused by that wear might be contributing to the shortened belt life, but I'll have to wait until I get a chance to check it out more thoroughly with the next belt change. AFAIK, the alternator itself is still cranking out the amps well enough as the batteries are not complaining too bitterly.

[Bob Palin]

Jamie, I'm not convinced the electrical load has anything to do with it, I've had as many failures (or more) than you and Leslie and my bike has been ridden the same way, roads, heat, speed etc., but I run hardly any extras at all, just the XM radio and I don't run my high beam during the day either.

[BMT]

...I would suspect either your dealer didn't inspect the belt at 24K ...

To be fair, there is no requirement on the service schedule for the belt to be inspected at 24k miles. It's just to be replaced at 35k (and subsequently retensioned 6k later).

 

As others have reported, mine had ribs missing and a long split at 27k.

[BMT]

I would hope that BMW could build an R motor with the two sheaves in proper alignment.

And why should belt pulleys enjoy better treatment than transmission components?

If the sheaves are the same thickness its easy to check with a string strung(tight & straight) across all(four) sheave edges.

I didn't make a great deal of effort to check mine (belt beyond service life at 27k), but the faces of the pulleys are not aligned. The first running groove is at a different point on each.

[LDHack]

Thanks for your comment. I'm also on a '03 black R1150RT.

 

Noticed your reference to the Krebs Cycle and had to click on it. My goodness, I remember having to memorize that whole thing when I was in Forestry college. It took me several weeks and lots of repeated drawing it out on paper to get it down perfect, but I did and got a good grade on the test. The things we had to stuff in to our heads, way back in college.

 

Kreb's Cycle is important, the source of the oxygen we breathe and the green stuff that grows.