MoroCycler Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 I have been wondering how nice it would be to get rid of that xtra weight on my RT12 from the huge chrome silencer can. I have seen the Remus ads, quite expensive product, but are there any better options? Appreciate your advice. Humberto Link to comment
Catbird Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 If you wanted to change JUST the muffler, itself, how does the weight of the stock unit compare to the Remus and the Staintune? Other than a possible weight reduction, are there any other benefits by switching mufflers? From what I read, no performance increase should be expected... is that correct? Link to comment
Deans BMW Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 Remus has a complete system for the R1200RT, never needs repacking much lighter than stock and in fact adds RWHP with no reduction in mileage....highly reccomended. Link to comment
Bill Murray Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 Remus has a complete system for the R1200RT, never needs repacking much lighter than stock and in fact adds RWHP with no reduction in mileage....highly reccomended. Dean, I have been thinking about replacing my R12ST exhaust. I have considered the Remus complete system, but their web site says the system is not suitable for the travelcase. Have you had any clearance issues with the Remus and BMW system cases on your R12ST? Link to comment
Timmer Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 Bill, I have the entire Remus Revolution system on my ST and it works fine with the side cases. The Remus appears to have more clearance than the OEM BMW exhaust system. Link to comment
Zenhog Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 Dean, I have been thinking about replacing my R12ST exhaust. I have considered the Remus complete system, but their web site says the system is not suitable for the travelcase. Have you had any clearance issues with the Remus and BMW system cases on your R12ST? The Remus website (and others) reference to the incompatability with side cases refers to a different model of pipe and the K1200S. After test riding a 1200RT with a full Remus system - header/connector/Revolution pipe, I had to have it; the power increase was quite noticable. But I went with the Grand Prix Carbon Fiber can which IMHO goes better with the Graphite color of my RT. The Remus rep said the sound/loudness of the Revolution was a 4 on a scale of 10 and the Grand Prix was a 6.5 or 7. I prefer a bit more growl. It should be in by Thursday and on the bike Friday, YES!!! I'll keep you posted.... Bob near Albuquerque Link to comment
dan_forker Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 ZenHog: How about a report after you have it installed and have had a chance to give it a good try? Dan Forker Link to comment
Zenhog Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 ZenHog: How about a report after you have it installed and have had a chance to give it a good try? Dan Forker Will do; I can barely sleep at night in anticipation!! Link to comment
apm Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 I can highly recommend the Remus Full System. I bought the Titanium Revolution. It looks good, sounds great with the removable baffle (tube)in place and I am getting slightly better fuel economy.I have noticed better top-end performance as well. I don't like the sound with the tube removed as I think it sounds harsher, a bit louder but not a good note. I also don't think it performs as well with the tube out, I think it is because the bike tends to run too lean with this tube removed. Go ahead and buy it - you won't be sorry. Tony. Link to comment
black99S Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 The Remus rep said the sound/loudness of the Revolution was a 4 on a scale of 10 and the Grand Prix was a 6.5 or 7. I prefer a bit more growl. Just having traded in my 99R11S with Titanium Z-technik exhaust, I am enjoying the quiet growl of the stock R12RT. Whilst the R11S sounded great to most BMW friends, It would set off car alarms and forced me to ride with ear plugs even on short city rides. Noise sometimes gives the impression of more power, however my stock 11S with only the Z-technik would run away from other Remus equipped 99S despite their 'chips' 'lennys intake' and San Jose 'Power air-filter'. Their owners swore about the great perceived power increase - until I pulled away on the mountain roads. I only bought the damn Z-technik 'cause the BMW CAT failed (rattled like a cheap scooter) just after warranty expired and BMW said tough! I'm happy to be back on a quiet stealth bike with more than enough power. Link to comment
Deans BMW Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 No clearance problems at all with the complete Remus system, works great and the quality is top notch Link to comment
HexST Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 Here's a pic of the full system on an ST with the Genisis titanium can bags on bags off Link to comment
Bill Murray Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Thanks to all about the Remus on the R12ST. You guys are a really bad influence, you know. Now the tough decision -- buy through my dealer or from Remus (if they are attending this year's BMW-MOA rally in Vermont). Link to comment
wilsons Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Have you had any clearance issues with the Remus and BMW system cases on your R12ST? Not to hijack, but none what so ever! (click on link). The remus is an awsome system, I saw it on an RT in columbus one time, really wierd seeing the same exaust kit on a more 'touring' bike, Link to comment
Timmer Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Now the tough decision -- buy through my dealer or from Remus (if they are attending this year's BMW-MOA rally in Vermont). Bill - I waited until the 49er Rally here in California and saved some serious $$$ over the dealer price. Plus they installed it free and shipped my BMW exhaust system home at no extra charge. We also had a little fun while they were doing the installation. Before they put the can on, we started it up with just the headers...if you're into loud, well it was LOUD. Link to comment
RT_Pilot Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 This is very useful info, I thought of this to. I have to ask though, there are people here that don’t believe there is an increase in performance? Please elaborate… Also, I have a riding buddy that put on after markets, and they get to loud, he wants to take them off complaining they give him a headache or interfere with rider to rider communication (Starcom). Anyone else have these problems with louder than stock exhaust? Is there a compromise that gives performance without deafening the rider? Link to comment
HexST Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 The Remus aern't that loud Ive had them on three bikes VTR1000,R1150GS.R1200ST combined 50,000 miles with Remus on and they didn't get louder. Never repacked either.. They have been on my ST now for over 13,000 miles and sound as good as when I put them on.Maybe someone is in here who heard my bike at the AMA races at Miller can attest to the sound.A few people lined up to buy them after hearing them.Max Moto will have a booth at the MOA rally. Link to comment
Ken H. Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 This is very useful info, I thought of this to. I have to ask though, there are people here that don’t believe there is an increase in performance? Please elaborate… Maybe you'll see a couple of HP difference here or there somewhere in the power band, possibly at the expenses of other spots, but no one (that I've ever seen), including the manufactures of the aftermarket systems themselves, has ever put forth before and after dyno test showing any actual usable increase in power by changing the exhaust on an R bike. The vast, vast majority of "performance increase" comes from people perceiving the bike to be faster because it's louder and they crank on the throttle harder to hear the sound that they like and just paid big bucks for. The same performance they would have gotten if they would have ridden the stock exhaust the same way. Now I know I'm going to get flamed back by everyone who just KNOWS that their particular bike is gobs faster with their new $800, $1000, $1200 exhaust system, to which I challenge - prove it. Dyno the bike with the aftermarket exhaust and the stock, then post the results here. Let's face it, today's bikes, even a 90 HP RT have more power that 90% of us know how to use. Think about the negative impact all the noise you are making is having on the sport, leave the noisy, air polluting exhaust in the box on the shelf please. The non-riding and air breathing rest of the world will thank you for it. Link to comment
Catbird Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 ...The vast, vast majority of "performance increase" comes from people perceiving the bike to be faster because it's louder and they crank on the throttle harder to hear the sound that they like and just paid big bucks for. The same performance they would have gotten if they would have ridden the stock exhaust the same way... Unless I see hard data to the contrary, I tend to agree with this thinking. Until I see proof of gains other than sound, I'm leaving my stock exhaust 'as is'. YMMV. Link to comment
Firefight911 Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Contact Mitch in parts at A&S Cycles . Ztechnik systems are on special there. Good looking pipe, and it drops a few pounds. I don't believe there will be ANY performance gains as previously stated in other posts. Just some information about availabale options for those who are considering. Link to comment
RT_Pilot Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Thank you all for the info. Although I’ve heard some great sounding pipes, I would personally conclude that I don’t “need” my RT to sound like anything more than it is, if that’s all there is to gain. Thanks for the heads-up Phil, all the guys at A $ S (lol) know me on site. Now when I walk in they toss me the keys to the blue GT outside before saying a word (might be gone now, haven’t been there in a few weeks). Link to comment
Zenhog Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 ...The vast, vast majority of "performance increase" comes from people perceiving the bike to be faster because it's louder and they crank on the throttle harder to hear the sound that they like and just paid big bucks for. The same performance they would have gotten if they would have ridden the stock exhaust the same way... Now I know I'm going to get flamed back by everyone who just KNOWS that their particular bike is gobs faster with their new $800, $1000, $1200 exhaust system, to which I challenge - prove it. Dyno the bike with the aftermarket exhaust and the stock, then post the results here. Let's face it, today's bikes, even a 90 HP RT have more power that 90% of us know how to use. Think about the negative impact all the noise you are making is having on the sport, leave the noisy, air polluting exhaust in the box on the shelf please. The non-riding and air breathing rest of the world will thank you for it. Unless I see hard data to the contrary, I tend to agree with this thinking. Until I see proof of gains other than sound, I'm leaving my stock exhaust 'as is'. YMMV. OK, I'll take your bait. Interesting perspectives folks; I respect your position. Hope you can do the same for me and the others that enjoy these blasphemous cans. My perception of the world and experience with motorcycles is very different from you. Thank Holy Jesus. Sorry, but I won't have a dyno prove numbers for you and I won't be wired to a computer to demonstrate my riding experience was improved because of my high dollar, Remus polluting exhaust system. Bob near noisy and smoggy Albuquerque Link to comment
Catbird Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 OK, I'll take your bait. Interesting perspectives folks; I respect your position. Hope you can do the same for me and the others that enjoy these blasphemous cans. My perception of the world and experience with motorcycles is very different from you. Thank Holy Jesus. Sorry, but I won't have a dyno prove numbers for you and I won't be wired to a computer to demonstrate my riding experience was improved because of my high dollar, Remus polluting exhaust system. Bob - Since you quoted me, above, I wanted to say that there's no need to be defensive. Do as YOU want. I wasn't trying to disparage anyone else for choosing to do what simply makes them happy -- no one needs my permission. In a nutshell, I was just trying to say that if all I can reasonably expect to gain is sound, it's not worth the expense to me. Link to comment
Schupo Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 I just rode the Lawman 1000 from Seattle to Eugene, OR, last weekend. It was a beautiful ride over some great roads. And I had my life saved so often by so many loud pipes as I had to crawl along while waiting for an opportunity to pass these slow and cumbersome machines. I appreciate my RT's faster pace and see the quieter ride as just one more item that makes the BMW so comfortable. Why pay $1000 for .5 HP? I'll gain more true performance by working out and losing 10 lbs. myself. Link to comment
Ken H. Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 Hope you can do the same for me and the others that enjoy these blasphemous cans. My perception of the world and experience with motorcycles is very different from you. Well here's the problem Bob, there is a growing ground swell against noisy motorcycles in many urban areas in the U.S. Maybe not in your particular area, on this particular day, but it will get there. Soon or later. It's inevitable. We motorcyclist are just too small of a percentage of the population creating too large of a portion of the noise problem. "No Motorcycles Allowed" is becoming more and more common. And we're an easy target. It's hard to ban noisy trucks, they're are necessary evil, or cars, everyone has one, but bikes, now that problem is easy. With a stoke of a pen at some city council meeting, you (and to my point, everyone else who rides there) are out. By your own admission you live in "noisy and smoggy Albuquerque." So why not be part of the solution instead of part of the problem and ride a quiet, low polluting motorcycle? Link to comment
IT_Mike Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 "No Motorcycles Allowed" is becoming more and more common.Sorry, but I don't see why people tolerate this. This is blatent discrimination and illegal in many states. Stand up to the local lawmakers. We motorcyclist are just too small of a percentage of the population *-snip-* And we're an easy target*-snip-* So why not be part of the solution instead of part of the problem and ride a quiet, low polluting motorcycle? And so your solution is to do the equivalent of hiding our 'nasty habit' in some back alley? Ask smokers and gun owners how well that works... Then ask any PC-acceptable minority how their 'in your face' campaigns worked out. Motorcycles will never be 'socially acceptable' to the majority of our population. Thankfully, we don't live in a democracy, but a republic which protects the rights of the individual over the whims of the majority. Mike Link to comment
Ken H. Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 blatant discrimination and illegal in many states. Baloney. Motorcyclist are in no way, shape, or form any sort of protected class against discrimination. Local governing bodies can and do routinely, legally, "discriminate" against anything they feel is not in the best public interest. And so your solution is to do the equivalent of hiding our 'nasty habit' in some back alley? Quite the contrary. I think the solution is change our behavior so as to make motorcycling, more open, more acceptable, MORE mainstream to the general population. Both as a sport and viable form of transportation. Your example of what is happening to smokers makes my point perfectly. The general populous is becoming less and less tolerant of smokers and are moving more and more, quite successfully I might add, to contain their activity. Just what we don't want to happen to motorcycling. And smokers are a far greater % of the population than riders. They're loosing the battle to smoke wherever they want to, what makes us think we'll be any different?Motorcycles will never be 'socially acceptable' to the majority of our population. As long as we perpetuate that perception with our own 'rebel', in-your-face actions (e.g. loud pipes) tactics, and methods, you are right. But we will continue to loose ground. Only by changing our actions, and thus improving the social acceptability of our sport can we reverse the trend of actions being taken against us. Like it or not, it is truly an example of, "You can't fight city hall." Link to comment
RT_Pilot Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 Whoa whoa whoa. This isn’t where I thought it would go. I think there are bikes that sound fine with their stock system (my V-Max for example), I think there are many great sounding after-market pipes that don’t shatter windows, and I think there are pipes that not only should be illegal, but in most cases are illegal already. I’ve reached a point in my life where things have to be a little more purposeful than just being cool. I wish my RT had a beastly growl, but if all it does is sound better… I’ll save $700 when everytime I get close enough for someone to hear, I’ll just make the growling noise myself. “grrrrrrrr bla bla bla, weeeeerrrrr weeeeeeerrrrr” At least it will sound cool in my helmet. When I was a kid, everyone owned 65-69 Mustangs, Cameos, Cudas, and GTOs now all the kids want Honda Civics with Cherry Bomb exhausts. I don’t know if they’re more obnoxious sounding now than they were in my day, but it sure seems like it. My point is just because its not for me, or you, doesn’t mean its stupid or your stupid. I do respect everyone here, although I made different choices I have a different perspective about all things as we all do. Thanks for ALL of your advice, sorry about the preaching, Link to comment
HexST Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 Thanks VMAX for putting the thread back on track. Link to comment
IT_Mike Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 Baloney. Motorcyclist are in no way, shape, or form any sort of protected class against discrimination. Check with your local A.B.A.T.E. or NCOM chapter. Over 2/3rds of the country have laws protecting motorcyclists from discrimination. I won't bother responding to the rest but to say I didn't advocate 'loud pipes', just opposed discriminatory ordinances. Mike Link to comment
Catbird Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 I remember when I was a kid a loooooooong time ago, my friends and I used to use clothespins to hold playing cards against our bicycle spokes to make a primitive 'putt putt putt putt' sound so other people would think we were C L. I wonder if this mod is feasible for my RT? I wonder if I'll get better gas mileage and/or more horsepower? It sure would be a lot cheaper. I'll post pics when the project is completed. Link to comment
Firefight911 Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 I remember when I was a kid a loooooooong time ago, my friends and I used to use clothespins to hold playing cards against our bicycle spokes to make a primitive 'putt putt putt putt' sound so other people would think we were C L. I wonder if this mod is feasible for my RT? I wonder if I'll get better gas mileage and/or more horsepower? It sure would be a lot cheaper. I'll post pics when the project is completed. I would suggest completing the job you begin with red, white, and blue streamers on the bar ends and a banana seat instead of the stock, Mayer, or Russell currently employed. Link to comment
Ken H. Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 I'll post pics when the project is completed. And detailed AR instructions we hope! Link to comment
Ken H. Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 and a banana seat Naw, you have to buy a KTM to get that. [thistreadisofficiallyhijacked] Link to comment
IanW Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 BMW R1200RT FULL replacement system available for BMW R1200RT Model The new 1200 version of the BMW RT is just begging for a system, the standard system being cumbersome, heavy and quiet, not to mention very unattractive. Staintune has developed a full system for the RT model with a choice of slip-on replacement muffler interchangeable with the standard header collector set with the use of a supplied adaptor or the recommended full system as shown above. Performance: The full system design has provided a 5Hp gain while static on the dyno. In standard trim there is a number of holes in the torque curve which the Staintune system has eliminated, increasing torque at the points required. During road testing significant improvement to the throttle response was noted making the bike much more responsive right from the bottom and through mid-range with throttle roll-on a dream ~ no hesitation anymore. Weight Savings: There is an overall 3Kg weight saving to be gained by fitting the full system. Finish: The Full System for the R1200 RT model consists of the header pipes, collector junction and oval designed muffler with the Staintune-designed removable restrictor. The system is delivered in Staintune's famous mirror finish, and looks as good as it performs and sounds. Should you wish to only purchase the muffler, it comes with an adaptor sleeve to connect to the standard header collector system. Noise Emissions: Standard: 88dba @ 3750rpm Restrictors In: 86dba @ 3750rpm Restrictors Out: 90dba @ 3750rpm Link to comment
RT_Pilot Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 Ok, now I’m back to maybe I should look at this thing. Thanks Ian, sounds like you either know you way around bikes, or work for Staintune… however if what you’ve said is documented, I may have to take a looksee. Thanks for the info… Link to comment
IanW Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 vmax happy and the other stuff Go to www.staintune.com.au I do not work for the company but had a staintune system on my 1150RT and I am saving up for a system for my R1200RT. Good Aussie gear. Ian Link to comment
SAAB93driver Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 [ you'll see a couple of HP difference here or there somewhere in the power band, possibly at the expenses of other spots, but no one (that I've ever seen), including the manufactures of the aftermarket systems themselves, has ever put forth before and after dyno test showing any actual usable increase This statement is not correct. Z-Technik at least posts before and after dyno graphs of their exhaust systems on their website and literature. I had a Remus for a very short time on my R1100RS, it was a "quiet" version, it looked good and to be honest it was not too loud but the lower frequency sound was annoying, like a sub woofer that resonated in my helmet in traffic. It was a good experiment but the stock exhaust was eventually fitted back on. Link to comment
sideways Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 Will say up front that I'm very much in agreement with Ken H (et al.) on the subject of loud pipes as a BIG problem for motorcycling, even though for short periods I really like the sound of many loud bikes - mainly at race tracks. But rather than going down that road, so to speak, I'd like to throw out another tidbit for thought: I love my RT for its long-ball capabilities - the several hundred, or a thousand, miles day kind of thing. (Tomorrow I'm buying a Triumph Speed Triple to satiate my more localized hoolie urges.) On long mileage trips, I've found the most tiring, and tiresome, aspect of the journey to be noise (of all kinds) on the road. Recently I rented an Electra Glide for a several hundred mile trip. The bike had Screaming Eagle pipes. By the end of each day of riding, my ears were ringing, I was dead tired, and I had a headache. So for the last hundred miles, at least, my perceptions were dimmed, my skills were reduced, and I wasn't having as much fun. One of the things I love about the RT is the relatively small amount of fatiguing noise that comes from my engine's exhaust. To me, altering such a great touring bike to make more noise is to make the bike less capable at the thing it does best, by far. I know everybody uses their bikes differently, and the RT can do the sporty thing well, too, but if you're not going to ride long distances on your RT, then why have an RT? And if you are going to ride long, I think you and your ears will eventually regret changing to a louder exhaust. Your bikes, and your money, but maybe something to consider. And I can't help but ask also whether it might be possible that manufacturers of after-market exhausts might ever exaggerate, just a little, the performance gains they advertise for their products? Nah, surely not. Link to comment
HexST Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 I rode my ST 9000 miles with stock exhaust and 13000 miles with remus and my ears don't know the difference. I have worn earplugs since 81 the only time I hear my bike is when I'm riding against a rock or hard wall or in a tunnel. I still hear the straight pipes of other bikes Not just harleys when thy are around me unmuffeled pipes on any bike more than annoy me. The same goes for Jet skis on the flats,cars that go BOOM or some loudmouth parent yelling at their child in public.Thats why I stay away from main streen in Daytona, off the flats during holidays and weekends annd out of family resturaunts,Also police sirens and commericials on speed channel a pain in my ear. Link to comment
kltk165 Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 I just want to make sure I'm clear on something. When they talk of the "standard" exhaust on the Staintune website, are they talking about the stock BMW exhaust or the base level Staintune exhaust? Noise Emissions: Standard: 88dba @ 3750rpm Restrictors In: 86dba @ 3750rpm Restrictors Out: 90dba @ 3750rpm Link to comment
RT_Pilot Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 Brad, you have some interesting points. Although I can think of many reasons to buy an RT besides just long trips, like liking the R Motor but not wanting to lay on your belly to ride on one. I have to agree with you. When I ride my RT its for all day trips for the most part. When I want to run around town, or blow off some quick steam on the backroads (or as I refer to “finding religion”) I take out the V-Max. I can validate your thoughts about having a noisy exhaust system taking away from the riding experience. I have a buddy with a louder system on his sport/tour machine. At the end of a day riding together, he is always more exhausted than myself, and complains about his ears ringing or hurting. When I road with him I to would occasionally get headaches from being within the proximity of those pipes. Now I have a StarCom Advanced system I plug my Ipod into (two-way, and phone), with an option for using (I use Sony high-end) in-ear buds for both music and bike to bike communication. These are essentially earplugs. I truly thought blocking the outside would take away from my awareness, but it has actually added to the experience (music and all). This has also dampened most of the noise coming off my buddy’s bike when I ride with him and eliminated my own wind noise. I think you summed it up nicely. When I’m on a long trip, it’s about comfort and the joys of riding. I think to purposely add noise to the equation would have to go in MY “can do without” category even if it added a little bit of performance. I don’t see it being an equal exchange. If I cared about more power on my touring machine that much, I would have bought an FJR, or even meaner a K1200GT. Thanks, The views expressed in this communication are strictly the author’s and do not represent the view or opinions of this station. If you find these views and/or opinions to be in anyway wrong or offensive, than get a life… it’s just my opinion. Link to comment
IanW Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 I just want to make sure I'm clear on something. When they talk of the "standard" exhaust on the Staintune website, are they talking about the stock BMW exhaust or the base level Staintune exhaust? Standard means as the bike was purchased from BMW, therfore stock BMW exhaust. You will notice with the restrictor in it is quieter than standard, but with a better "note". Ian Noise Emissions: Standard: 88dba @ 3750rpm Restrictors In: 86dba @ 3750rpm Restrictors Out: 90dba @ 3750rpm Link to comment
velomoto Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 Mike, I too agree with the assessment that noise detracts from the enjoyment of long rides and also takes a physical toll. When riding with a buddy who has straight pipes on his Harley, I find myself either leading or following far behind. His rationale for using straight pipes is that he wants to be heard for "safety" - however he just doesn't understand the physics which channel most of the noise behind the bike. That said, I must confess that I'm tempted to get an exhaust system which would change the note of the 12RT. Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.