RID freezes -- literally

[wallyging]

The RID on my 2004 R1150GSA goes blank (blacklight is still on) when the outdoor temperature reaches 32 degrees. When the temp comes back up the display comes back to life. Freezing temps, display goes blank again.

 

I removed the connector plug under the tank and sprayed it with de-oxit, but it didn't fix the problem.

 

I'm thinking it must have to do with moisture someplace that changes conductivity when it freezes, but I'm stumped.

 

Suggestions?

 

[fatbob]

IDK.   But mine has been occasionally resetting the time to 00:00 when I turn on the key.    

[BamaJohn]

Karma's suggesting not riding below 33 Degrees F. 

[dirtrider]

On 12/24/2024 at 10:46 AM, wallyging said:

The RID on my 2004 R1150GSA goes blank (blacklight is still on) when the outdoor temperature reaches 32 degrees. When the temp comes back up the display comes back to life. Freezing temps, display goes blank again.

 

I removed the connector plug under the tank and sprayed it with de-oxit, but it didn't fix the problem.

 

I'm thinking it must have to do with moisture someplace that changes conductivity when it freezes, but I'm stumped.

 

Suggestions?

 

Morning  wallyging

 

That is going to be difficult to find. 

 

I haven't seen this on a BMW oilhead before but have seen a few on the automotive side, usually tracked back to a minor crack in one of the IP printed circuits that open up when extremely cold. 

 

What happens if you give your RID area a good hand smack when it goes blank? Or try wiggling the wires going to the RID when it goes blank. 

 

Or, if you can get it to quit at home see if pointing a hair dryer at the RID can bring it back alive (might help determine where the problem is coming from).

[Skywagon]

When I had my oilhead I had the same experiences. It happened only when I rode in heavy rain or after washing the bike. After a couple days of drying out it always worked again. If you are getting frost or moisture, that might be the cause. 

[wallyging]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I'll have to wait until the temperature here goes below freezing again (and the display goes blank) to try them out. The problem seems specifically related to freezing temperature - 33 degrees and the display is fine, 31 or 32 degrees and the display goes blank. 

 

I've been doing a little research online and discovered that when water freezes the molecules are not free to move, and it loses its conductivity. Following that line of reasoning I'm thinking there may be a weak connection somewhere that works because of the moisture in the air, but when the moisture freezes the connection isn't strong enough to conduct electricity and the LCD display goes blank. I'll be looking specifically at the RID itself. Joe Stoner on Internet BMW Riders notes that the LCD display connects to the circuit board through tangs that make contact with pads on the circuit board when the two are pressed together (like calculators or TV remotes), that the connections can deteriorate over time due to vibration, age, etc., and that spraying electronics cleaner on the tangs and pads will often fix the problem. 

 

So next time it drops below freezing I'll give the display a smack and/or use heat to warm it up to see if that fixes the problem. If not, or even if it does, I'll still open the RID and spray the lcd connections inside because the smack and heat "solutions" would both suggest there is a loose connection in the RID. This is one of the few times I can't wait for it to get colder so I can ride...  

 

It could be a week or more until it gets below freezing here in Cleveland, but when it does I'll follow up on this and let you know what I find. 

 

 

[szurszewski]

On 12/25/2024 at 7:24 PM, fatbob said:

IDK.   But mine has been occasionally resetting the time to 00:00 when I turn on the key.    

Unrelated hijack, but that's a classic sign of a battery that's getting ready to die. 

[dirtrider]

12 minutes ago, szurszewski said:

Unrelated hijack, but that's a classic sign of a battery that's getting ready to die. 

Afternoon  szurszewski

 

It can be but a battery issue vs RID usually shows up during engine cranking not at key-ON.

[fatbob]

I believe it’s a 5 or 6 year old Odyssey PC680.   Probably right about that, getting long in the tooth.   

[wallyging]

We are in a stretch of sub-freezing days now in Cleveland, so I've done a little more research on my "freezing RID."

 

1. The RID freezing occurs when the temperature reaches 34-36 degrees, not 32 degrees. This temperature is confirmed by thermometers on my F750GS, C400X, and another accurate thermometer with probe. This suggests the problem is not caused by freezing moisture that loses its conductivity, as I had theorized, but something else that is affected by temperature change.  

 

2. The RID didn't respond to "smacks."

 

2. The RID does, however, come to life within several minutes of warming it with my heat gun. This suggests the problem is in the RID itself, not the wiring or connector to the bike's wiring harness.

 

3. When the RID goes blank the clock stops working. When it comes back on the clock displays again, but the time is incorrect. Whatever is causing the RID to go blank also causes the clock to stop. 

 

The temperature is supposed to be in the 20's all next week, so I'll get out in the garage to see if I can gain access to the insides of the RID. If so, I'll get my loupe out to look for cracks in the printed circuits (thanks, dirtrider) and spray Deoxit on the LCD contacts with the circuit board.

 

FYI, the battery is fully charged. 

 

Any ideas why the clock stops when the RID goes blank?

 

 

[dirtrider]

29 minutes ago, wallyging said:

We are in a stretch of sub-freezing days now in Cleveland, so I've done a little more research on my "freezing RID."

 

1. The RID freezing occurs when the temperature reaches 34-36 degrees, not 32 degrees. This temperature is confirmed by thermometers on my F750GS, C400X, and another accurate thermometer with probe. This suggests the problem is not caused by freezing moisture that loses its conductivity, as I had theorized, but something else that is affected by temperature change.  

 

2. The RID didn't respond to "smacks."

 

2. The RID does, however, come to life within several minutes of warming it with my heat gun. This suggests the problem is in the RID itself, not the wiring or connector to the bike's wiring harness.

 

3. When the RID goes blank the clock stops working. When it comes back on the clock displays again, but the time is incorrect. Whatever is causing the RID to go blank also causes the clock to stop. 

 

The temperature is supposed to be in the 20's all next week, so I'll get out in the garage to see if I can gain access to the insides of the RID. If so, I'll get my loupe out to look for cracks in the printed circuits (thanks, dirtrider) and spray Deoxit on the LCD contacts with the circuit board.

 

FYI, the battery is fully charged. 

 

Any ideas why the clock stops when the RID goes blank?

 

 

Evening Wally

 

Before taking the RID apart you might access the red/ with white stripe wire going into the RID, then when the RID doesn't come alive try lightly wiggling that red/white wire right where it enters the RID.

 

The clock dying then not coming back on to the correct time is usually due to that red wire losing it's full time supply of 12v into the RID. (good place to start looking anyhow)

[wallyging]

Thanks for the suggestion, dirtrider. I will follow up...

[wallyging]

I removed the RID yesterday in my sub-freezing garage, took it apart following Stoner's post, cleaned the contacts with DeOxit, put it all back together, but no love. The RID comes to life when the temperature gets above 36 degrees and goes blank again when it gets colder. 

 

The RID after I removed it from its case.

 

 

Here it is after I removed the LCD panel. You can see the two parallel rows of little black squares above and below the chip that connect with the circuits on the two black strips on the back side of the LCD panel (bottom of photo) when they are pressed together. 

 

The backside of the circuit board where the cable connects to it.

 

 

I'll keep an eye out on eBay for a good used RID from a GS - the cables from the ones from RTs and RSs are too short for the GS. In the meantime, I won't ride when it gets down to the mid-30s -- not that I ride a lot in the freezing cold, but on sunny days when the roads are dry I find it therapeutic to get out for a ride. 

 

Thanks to all for your suggestions. 

 

 

 

[RogerC60]

The display going blank and the clock stopping can both be explained by the RID's crystal oscillator stopping. Crystal oscillator circuits use electronic components that are temperature sensitive. It could be a bad capacitor, etc.

 

In your photo of the back side of the board, that silvery can sticking up is the crystal.

[wallyging]

If I had more knowledge of electronics I'd try to find the problem and fix it, but since that isn't viable for me I ordered a nice RID on eBay. It should be here early next week and, as the weather is supposed to be in teens and 20's next week, I should be able to install it and see if that solves the problem. 

[wallyging]

Problem is fixed! The used RID from eBay took care of the problem. See RogerC60's post above for what it might have been in the RID itself that was causing the issue. 

 

Thanks to all for your suggestions.