Servicing

[Dingo55]

Hi all

Have recently picked up a 2020 r1250rt and needing some help/info re servicing

400kms from nearest bmw trained technician so planning to do the bits I can and work out getting bike up to tech for the bits i can't/won't do

Intrigued about the cam check/adjustment requirement

At what stage is is suggested that gets done in terms of kms travelled 

Does that come about due to not being set properly initially or is it part of the bedding in process

Need to find out cost wise is that something I would tackle ie tooling up and stress levels

Are the jigs and other bits readily available? 

Are any of the consumables the same as on my 2015 R1200Rt?

Thanks 

Mark

[Hati]

1 hour ago, Dingo55 said:

At what stage is is suggested that gets done in terms of kms travelled 

 

Every 10k kilometres you have oil and filter only and every 20k valve checks, final drive oil change, plugs and air filter as well and whatever else you see fit. I lube the screen pins for example and the brake/clutch lever plunger rods too. Plus every second year brake fluid replacement. You can download the owner's manual from any of the BMW Motorrad websites to see what is due and when.

 

1 hour ago, Dingo55 said:

Does that come about due to not being set properly initially or is it part of the bedding in process

 

They are set properly, but they do bed in so there is a chance the clearances change. Most find that once set after the first check, it seldom changes, but YMMV.

 

1 hour ago, Dingo55 said:

Are the jigs and other bits readily available?

 

Currently not too sure. Shift heads have a different jig to the LC motors. BMW stopped selling the manual so this may be true to the specialized tools like the jogs, but again, YMMV and you should certainly try end get them. Check with @Boxflyer he made some of the tools needed for the wet heads, including shift cams.

[Boxflyer]

Cam Timing and Valve Clearance Checks at 12k (20k KM)

I recommend that EVERY R1200 or R1250 WetHead or ShiftHead engine gets an all important "First Look" at both the Cam Timing and the Valve Clearances.

It does not make sense to do it anytime before that mileage as the engine is built pretty well from the factory, and needs all of the components in the Valve Train to wear in and be normalized.

 

I've done over 130 Cam Timing and Valve Clearance checks on R1200 and R1250 WetHead/ShiftHead bikes and about 90% of the engines need some small adjustment to the Cam Timing as well as setting the Valve Clearances to what I believe are the "optimum" values of 0.12mm for the Intake and 0.36mm for the Exhaust.

My experience is that once the Cam Timing is set at about the 12k miles point, that it will almost NEVER change for upwards of 100k miles.

If you set the valves at the values I recommend, then the valves are not so annoying with the ticking that lots of folks say "that they all sound that way"...they don't need to.

The valves may also not need to be adjusted until somewhere around 100k

 

Lots of reports of hard starting, poor fuel economy, and degraded performance have been solved by doing an initial Cam Timing that includes correcting the LH Exhaust Cam Timing Reluctor input to the ECU.

 

I posted this article elsewhere on this forum, so will paste it in here for those of you that may not use the Search function for information.

 

Sorry, but I don't sell or ship tools outside the USA due to requests to falsify Customs Documents...like stating that they are "gifts" and that the value is only $40...

Hope this helps,

Brad Smith

Boxflyer

 

Why we check Cam Timing on WetHead / ShiftHead Boxers

My belief is that the cam timing IS correctly set right from the assembly line.

 

When a WetHead/ShiftHead gets somewhere between 10-12k miles, all the valve train finally normalizes the wear and settles in to this state for the next 100k miles or so.

Thinking about what we do to check/set the cam timing, it makes sense to me why we need to do this early on in the typical service for these WetHead engines.

 

For the LH cylinder my observation is like this….inserting the 8mm TDC locking pin in the perimeter of the alternator rotor has a very small tolerance in that slot or it would get stuck there. This LH side cam chain is driven from a sprocket on the crankshaft just between the alternator and the rod journals, so this is the shorter of the 2 sides to transfer rotation out to the cams. Both the pulling, top side, of the chain and tensioner, bottom side, of the chain slide along about 8 inches of phenolic rails that are prone to some grooves from the edges of the chain links as they break in initially. All the links, (102) on this side, as well as the sprockets have lots of contact points that change as they initially wear in.

Then the sprocket shaft has the drive gear that rotates the cam gears on both Int and Exh cams…again some gear face contact wear-in is normal.

 

The RH cylinder has the added driveline parts before getting to the drive sprocket at the cams …there is the large gear on the front end of the crankshaft that drives the smaller gear on the clutch basket and then back thru the clutch/counter balance shaft to a similar sprocket for the 106 link chain going out to the cam drive gear.

The RH side chain has more distance from the counter balance shaft drive sprocket that is lower in the engine than the LH side driven straight out from the crankshaft.

 

(The ShiftHead 1250 has a link chain vs a roller chain so the left side has 130 links and the right side has 136 links)

 

The engineers determined that the specific pressure applied from the Cam Chain Tensioner Tool standardizes the removal of the clearance/spaces all along the components just listed to use the Cam Alignment Jig on the flats on the ends of the cams and correctly align the 2 cams for optimal operation.

 

Pretty convoluted description to point out that there is some normal play in all these components that we are dealing with after initial break-in to reset what the factory set during the buildup of the engine.

 

If you are still awake after all that, I hope you have success setting the cam timing when you get to it sometime after 10k miles minimum break-in.

 

It’s my experience from doing over 130 of these Cam Timing checks that about 85-90% of the cams on each side have to be adjusted after initial break-in.

 

This will give you easier starting, smoother idle, smoother throttle response throughout the RPM range, and possibly better gas mileage (that’s a guess since I don’t know anyone that seeks MPG over Smiles Per Mile!)

 

 

[Dingo55]

Thanks for the replies 

Much appreciated 

I have to ask

What does YMMV mean?

For a procedure that might only be done once would it be considered viable to tool up ( if that's even possible) or would it be more prudent to have it done by an experienced tech?

I understand that that's a completely subjective question but all opinions appreciated

Do Techs normally undertake this procedure?

Would they be tooled up?

How long would that take to complete?

How would you know that it had even been done? ( Except for the bill)

 

Brad 

Appreciate your input and your work videos

I haven't thoroughly gone through the 1250 stuff yet but will do

I remember somewhere previously you saying you not sending tools internationally 

Are these tools available on the market?

You mention the need to correct the LH exhaust cam timing reluctor input to the ECU

What is required to do that? Pardon me if you've covered that in your videos

Are the valve shims the same size as for the 1200?

Cheers

Mark

I'll go back through them  

 

[wbw6cos]

your mileage may vary.. or caveat emptor.  Something like that.  

[Boxflyer]

Hi Mark,

What does YMMV mean?

YMMV is generally accepted as meaning "Your Mileage May Vary".

 

For a procedure that might only be done once would it be considered viable to tool up?

Tooling up is an affliction that I suffer from...and have since I was a boy...it's a well known fact to my wife that every project involves getting a new tool and more often than not...drawing blood.

 

Do Techs normally undertake this procedure?

I would say "enthusiasts" are more inclined to do this. 

If we are talking about BMW shops, then yes, they could do Cam Timing, but are NOT going to do it as part of any 12k/20KM service because it's only called for if the camshaft has been replaced.

 

How long would that take to complete?

I do a full ride in 12k service on a WetHead/ShiftHead in about 7hrs. This includes the time that a fan is blowing on the engine to cool it down while I'm changing out the air filter and doing the final drive/rear brake service.

 

How would you know that it had even been done?

I'm not sure about any "other" techs, but I provide a Valve Timing/Clearance Worksheet and the 12k Service Worksheet showing accomplishment of what I've done as well as all the used parts.

 

Are these tools available on the market?

Currently, not available from BMW. The Cam Chain Tensioner (83300444292) and Sleeve for 1250 (83300444282) have not been available for more than a couple of years. 

I recently purchased 2 sets of eBay clone versions of the TDC Locking Pin and 1200 WetHead Alignment Jigs.  After setting a 1200 WetHead to perfect alignment with the OEM BMW Cam Timing Tools, I tried each set of these "offshore knock-offs" and was very disappointed with the quality and accuracy of the tools.  One DID NOT fit at all, and the other Cam Alignment Jig only fit when extra effort was used to slide it onto the cams.  Not acceptable in either case and a waste of my money to test them out.  

To date, I've only had OEM BMW Cam Alignment Jigs for the 1200, but will be trying to create them in the future as has been done with the 1250 Cam Alignment Jigs.

I have a very limited number of Cam Chain Tensioners that I make, so these will become more and more difficult to acquire.

 

You mention the need to correct the LH exhaust cam timing reluctor input to the ECU.

In almost every "first look" 12k service that I've done, the Camshaft Timing Reluctor on the LH Exh Cam has been out of alignment with the pick-up.  As mentioned above, there are a number of conditions that getting this input to the ECU corrected will correct..

 

Are the valve shims the same size as for the 1200?

Yes, both the 1200 and the 1250 use nominal 8.90mm shims that were up until now available from both BMW and the aftermarket.  The BMW shims were ordered by part number as "Adjustment Plates" in various sizes and cost about $10/each.

I recently purchased over 800 of these shims from an online source that informed me that their supplier is discontinuing them.  So, I'm glad I got some inventory for doing the 12k servicing going forward.

 

I hope that these are the answers you were looking for, but know that it more than likely has generated even more questions...sorry about that!

 

Brad

 

[Cap]

1 hour ago, Boxflyer said:

You mention the need to correct the LH exhaust cam timing reluctor input to the ECU.

 

In almost every "first look" 12k service that I've done, the Camshaft Timing Reluctor on the LH Exh Cam has been out of alignment with the pick-up.  As mentioned above, there are a number of conditions that getting this input to the ECU corrected will correct..

 

For those who have never done this procedure, adjusting the reluctor is easy.  There is one bolt that needs to be loosened, and then it can be moved to proper alignment with your Mark 1 eyeball.  I have always been amazed at the contrast in precision with which BMW specs the cam timing and valve clearances, and the casual way that this reluctor is adjusted.

 

Cap

[Dingo55]

Hi all

Seriously appreciate the responses

Firstly my Mark 1 eyeball needs considerable help these days

Got a bit of time up my sleeve (only got 6K kms on the clock)

I'll try and touch base with the well regarded Tech and see what he suggests re cam timing adjustment

I am a little bit intrigued 

If 90% need adjusting does that mean the other 10% are OK?

If so how does that come about ?

Is that down to how the bike is ridden or other factors? 

Guess I'll try and be vigilant (hopefully not paranoid) in monitoring the signs of pending adjustment requirement

Cheers

Mark

[Dingo55]

Hi all 

Speaking with the service person from the state dealership yesterday

Didn't know anything about cam timing adjustment procedure 

"we just do what's on the list"

Very helpful (not)

There must be so many bikes running around at less than optimal performance ( Maybe I should turn it into a climate change issue)

Can't tool up personally and the dealers don't do the procedure

WTH (that's the polite version)

Cheers

Mark

  

[Lowndes]

Hey, Dingo55,

 

What about taking a little ride up to the States in a couple of months for the famous F.A.R.T. ??  Brad has been at every one of these since Maggie Valley, and, God willin' an' the creek don't rise, he'll be at Sparta this fall for FART.  Bad brings a huge trailer full of tools and equipment, oils, filters, a couple of tents, a bike lift, special tools, diagrams and charts, tires, shims, and paper towels.  He set up in the parking lot of the motel and holds forth for four or five days straight with personal instruction while performing these proceedures on YOUR bike, all for gratis. Or, jump in and do it yourself with his guidance.  BTW, I looked up "altruism" in the unabriged Websters Dictionary of the English Language at the library and there was a picture of Brad.  Smiling.  

 

Bring your bike, or not.  You can ride one of my old clunkers.  Take your choice.  Fly into Atlanta and I'll pick you up and get you there and back.  If you don't like riding thru the Smokies and Appalachian Mountains on the other days you can sit by the pool or in the bar.  Your choice.  Not a bad way to spend a week with a hundred or so of your new best friends, AND learn the hows and whys of doing your bike's valves from a master tech.  You know you want to.  Come on!!  You could get the tools here, set up shop Downunder, and recoup the cost.

 

These are from the START this spring in the southern Appalachains.  This fall will be in Sparta, NC (some of the best riding and most beautiful mountains anywhere).

 

https://www.bmwsporttouring.com/topic/106135-all-things-boxflyer-in-ellijay-check-here-for-parts-tires-service-scheduling-questions/

 

https://www.bmwsporttouring.com/forum/94-appalachian-riding-tour/

[Dingo55]

Thanks Lowndes

A very tempting offer

Would be a nice birthday present to self

A little ride of some 18,000 kms

I'd probably have more chance of sending my Lear jet over to pick up Brad , fly him over here, have him do the work and fly him back home

Only two problems that I can see

1 . Brad is probably too busy with his hectic schedule and

2.  The $1 deposit I put on my Lear jet 10 years ago hasn't resulted in my taking possession yet

Not sure why

They say

'Never say never'

Cheers 

Mark

Those that are going 

Have fun

[Boxflyer]

Mark…and others who live down under. 
Let’s think about some kind of WetHead/ShiftHead Tech Week IN AUSTRALIA!

With some sort of offset for the expenses I would consider doing one complete 12k/20k KM Service per day in a location TBD. 
 

All I require is a lift, a covered workplace and a place to stay.  I would provide my own tools.  This idea is a bit crazy, but it might work!

 

My wife and I have only dipped our toe into exploring AUS and could possibly work this into a vacation there. 
 

I’m open for discussion on this project. 
 

Brad

[Lowndes]

Brad!!  I had him talked into coming to FART!!  Oh, well.

 

Hey, Mark, what about doing BOTH options??  Then everyone is happy.  Brad is retired so he has plenty of time when he's not doing an *ART or a TECH DAY somewhere with another BMW group.  

 

Yeah, I think doing both is the way to go.

 

 

[Cap]

On 5/26/2023 at 6:33 AM, Boxflyer said:

I’m open for discussion on this project. 

Does the boxer engine spin counter-clockwise in Australia?

[Dingo55]

Morning Cap

I thought they all did that

 

Don't think I can assist much in the effort to B.B.T.O. (Bring Brad To Oz)  movement

I don't exactly live in the middle of nowhere but they say that you can see it from just up the road 

Perhaps a go fund me page to get the Lear jet fitted out with a workshop

Probably more interest from over on the East coast of Oz 

Much more densely populated 

The GS's seem to be very popular (or not, going by the for sales pages)

I'm going to see if I can get further up the 'food chain' at the State dealer

They must be capable of doing the cam adjustment procedure ie they must have the equipement 

We'll see

Good luck to the F.A.R.T. ers

Cheers

Mark 

[Hati]

What town are you in Mark?

[Dingo55]

Hi

I live in a little piece of paradise called Nanarup, just East of Albany

[Motorhead1977]

On 5/27/2023 at 7:54 PM, Dingo55 said:

Hi

I live in a little piece of paradise called Nanarup, just East of Albany

Hmmm, not familiar with Nanarup and I live in Albany! (NY USA that is LoL 😆)