'05 RT 122K miles clutch pushrod inspection

[CoarsegoldKid]

For many many thousands of miles there has been a knocky noise at idle & in neutral in the area of trans and clutch that can be modulated with the clutch lever.  Pull in the clutch lever in at idle and in neutral and the knocky sound goes away.  Let out the clutch lever it sounds terrible.  After watching some videos on noisy BMWs I believe it's worth inspecting the clutch pushrod.  Parts list tells me there's a fibre piece on the rod.  Maybe it's far gone.  Maybe the forward end of the rod is worn away too much.  I want to check it. 
So my question is: can that be accomplished by simply removing the slave cylinder and pulling out the rod or must I remove the transmission and clutch?

all your help is greatly appreciated- thanks in advance

[dirtrider]

13 minutes ago, CoarsegoldKid said:

For many many thousands of miles there has been a knocky noise at idle & in neutral in the area of trans and clutch that can be modulated with the clutch lever.  Pull in the clutch lever in at idle and in neutral and the knocky sound goes away.  Let out the clutch lever it sounds terrible.  After watching some videos on noisy BMWs I believe it's worth inspecting the clutch pushrod.  Parts list tells me there's a fibre piece on the rod.  Maybe it's far gone.  Maybe the forward end of the rod is worn away too much.  I want to check it. 
So my question is: can that be accomplished by simply removing the slave cylinder and pulling out the rod or must I remove the transmission and clutch?

all your help is greatly appreciated- thanks in advance

Evening Joe

 

Are you sure it is the clutch push rod & not just neutral gear rattle that you are dealing with? (neutral gear rattle is pretty common)

 

Try pulling the clutch lever in just enough to take the slack out of the clutch system, not far enough to actually release the clutch.  If just taking the slack out of the clutch with a gentle pull on the clutch lever eliminates the noise then, yes very possibly the clutch rod is rattling.

 

If you only get the rattle in neutral with the clutch engaged but it then goes away with the clutch lever fully pulled in then you probably have a normal neutral gear rattle.

 

It sure isn't easy but you should be able to slide the pushrod out after you remove the slave cylinder. Sometimes they will stick & it is then difficult to get a good grasp on the pushrod to pull it out     

[CoarsegoldKid]

Thanks Dirt Rider.  I should add that all the years previously the sound was certainly not as loud as now.  I did however change the trans oil and refilled according to the manual but maybe I missed a few ml getting into the port.  Humm!  Anyway can I remove the pushrod easily enough to inspect it?

[dirtrider]

30 minutes ago, CoarsegoldKid said:

Thanks Dirt Rider.  I should add that all the years previously the sound was certainly not as loud as now.  I did however change the trans oil and refilled according to the manual but maybe I missed a few ml getting into the port.  Humm!  Anyway can I remove the pushrod easily enough to inspect it?

Evening Joe

 

Can you remove it___ Yes

 

Can you remove it easily__ No

[Rougarou]

If it sounds like this,.....source a used transmission.

 

 

[The Fabricator]

Me; R1150GS 45k miles.

My engine has a knock at idle in neutral and in gear with the clutch disengaged.  I rev the engine a bit and it really is pronounced. And I think I can feel something in the hand grips.

Also, the knock is not there when the engine and oil is cold.

Once moving, clutch engaged, I can not hear any knock.  Of course, I can not rev the engine to test.

I have been chasing it for years.

I switched from a plain push rod to a 'felted' push rod.  No difference.  I wouldn't think that a rattling push rod would make a knock noise.

And replaced the transmission.

 

Recently, I read a post that suggested an imbalanced clutch. 

 https://www.advrider.com/f/threads/r1150-gs-adv-cluch-ticking-noise.1548845/#post-47068691

The logic is an imbalanced clutch will cause a radial movement of the crankshaft, and when the oil is thin, less cushion,  hence the knock.

With the clutch engaged, the transmission shaft supports the crankshaft and the noise reduces or is eliminated.

I have had the clutch out a few times and was unaware it had balancing marks, so did not properly space the marks at 120 degrees.

The marks represent the heavy side of the rotating parts [there are 3 balanced parts].

BUT,  I reason, if the parts are imbalanced from the factory, is there a guarantee the assembly is balanced when the parts are installed  properly?

These three parts have drilled areas indicating they have been balanced, but why the paint marks?

Is each part imbalanced X grams, so space the parts 120 degrees apart? Huh?

More likely, each part is allowed an imbalance of up to X grams, so ending  up with 3 imbalanced parts that cancel perfectly will be rare.

3 imbalanced parts are more likely to be good enough.

And then there is the situation of 3 imbalanced parts will not be satisfactory.

It makes sense to balance the whole assembly.  

My clutch assembly is at the machine shop right now for an assembly balancing.

Stay tuned for a post about the results a few weeks from now.

 

Just for the record, it is possible to remove the push rod once the slave is removed on an 1150.  However, the first time I tried, it would not budge.  I made up a collet to grab the shaft end and pulled with significant force.  I figured the rod might be welded to the push rod seat on the spring, so I bought a used rod [with felt].  When I removed the transmission, the rod [no felt] slipped out with 2 fingers. !? No damage.  

I used the felted rod on assembly.  That is how I know the felt did not make any difference, noise wise.

[KDeline]

On 3/25/2023 at 8:17 PM, Rougarou said:

If it sounds like this,.....source a used transmission.

 

 

Mine has done this for 90,000 miles so I won't be getting a different transmission. Earplugs help.........

[dirtrider]

11 hours ago, The Fabricator said:

Me; R1150GS 45k miles.

My engine has a knock at idle in neutral and in gear with the clutch disengaged.  I rev the engine a bit and it really is pronounced. And I think I can feel something in the hand grips.

Also, the knock is not there when the engine and oil is cold.

Once moving, clutch engaged, I can not hear any knock.  Of course, I can not rev the engine to test.

I have been chasing it for years.

I switched from a plain push rod to a 'felted' push rod.  No difference.  I wouldn't think that a rattling push rod would make a knock noise.

And replaced the transmission.

 

Recently, I read a post that suggested an imbalanced clutch. 

 https://www.advrider.com/f/threads/r1150-gs-adv-cluch-ticking-noise.1548845/#post-47068691

The logic is an imbalanced clutch will cause a radial movement of the crankshaft, and when the oil is thin, less cushion,  hence the knock.

With the clutch engaged, the transmission shaft supports the crankshaft and the noise reduces or is eliminated.

I have had the clutch out a few times and was unaware it had balancing marks, so did not properly space the marks at 120 degrees.

The marks represent the heavy side of the rotating parts [there are 3 balanced parts].

BUT,  I reason, if the parts are imbalanced from the factory, is there a guarantee the assembly is balanced when the parts are installed  properly?

These three parts have drilled areas indicating they have been balanced, but why the paint marks?

Is each part imbalanced X grams, so space the parts 120 degrees apart? Huh?

More likely, each part is allowed an imbalance of up to X grams, so ending  up with 3 imbalanced parts that cancel perfectly will be rare.

3 imbalanced parts are more likely to be good enough.

And then there is the situation of 3 imbalanced parts will not be satisfactory.

It makes sense to balance the whole assembly.  

My clutch assembly is at the machine shop right now for an assembly balancing.

Stay tuned for a post about the results a few weeks from now.

 

Just for the record, it is possible to remove the push rod once the slave is removed on an 1150.  However, the first time I tried, it would not budge.  I made up a collet to grab the shaft end and pulled with significant force.  I figured the rod might be welded to the push rod seat on the spring, so I bought a used rod [with felt].  When I removed the transmission, the rod [no felt] slipped out with 2 fingers. !? No damage.  

I used the felted rod on assembly.  That is how I know the felt did not make any difference, noise wise.

Morning  Fabricator

 

This is a 1200 hexhead thread so there is a different engine & transmission than your 1150. 

 

If you want to start a new thread in the oilhead forum we will address your 1150 knocking there. (we don't want to hijack this 1200 hexhead thread) 

[Rougarou]

10 hours ago, KDeline said:

Mine has done this for 90,000 miles so I won't be getting a different transmission. Earplugs help.........

 

Ya, I prolly could have avoided that fiasco and let it run, but the rattle was much louder than the standard rattle.

 

Knocking 150k's door, the RT has the low rattle sound like when I bought it,....so normal and now loud.

[Ron-M]

 My 2007 RT  has 141,000 miles and has an awful rattle upon a cold start.  When I pull in the clutch lever it smooths out.  When I let the lever out again it rattles again, shaking the bike.  I have had the bike since it was new and it has always done this.  It is just more exaggerated now that it has so many miles on it, but it eventually smooths out and although the rattle subsides, it does not go away.  

[CoarsegoldKid]

1 hour ago, Ron-M said:

 My 2007 RT  has 141,000 miles and has an awful rattle upon a cold start.  When I pull in the clutch lever it smooths out.  When I let the lever out again it rattles again, shaking the bike.  I have had the bike since it was new and it has always done this.  It is just more exaggerated now that it has so many miles on it, but it eventually smooths out and although the rattle subsides, it does not go away.  

Yes, that's it exactly.  

[Rougarou]

1 hour ago, Ron-M said:

 My 2007 RT  has 141,000 miles and has an awful rattle upon a cold start.  When I pull in the clutch lever it smooths out.  When I let the lever out again it rattles again, shaking the bike.  I have had the bike since it was new and it has always done this.  It is just more exaggerated now that it has so many miles on it, but it eventually smooths out and although the rattle subsides, it does not go away.  

 

Mine rattled like the video posted, hot or cold.  Clutch pulled in, no rattle at all, release clutch, loud rattle.  Now, it's back to normal low rattle.

[Phil Swain]

My bike a 2005 with 86000miles..  Its had a gearbox replaced,, I did not do that job ,but specified having a new clutch fitted at the same time...  My bike suffers from none of those strange sounds.. I believe the replacement box was from a GS..