2009 R1200RT-P clutch replacement

[SD1]

I thought I would start a separate thread on the clutch replacement. Fortunately for me, there have been other brave souls who have conquered this task that I can use to assist on my own journey, but documenting it on my own thread is a good idea for me and you never know, it may produce a tidbit of info that helps the next guy down the line. 

 

I have a lot of mechanical aptitude, but I am a little older and my memory is not that great and hoping this thread and forum will offer a touchstone and some support as I get down to business. I greatly appreciate the comments so far and future suggestions are welcome and encouraged.

 

I am going to replace everything with factory components. I already have a factory friction disc and a number of the seals related to the R/R of the clutch. I am going to wait for tear down to make the call on whether I will replace any of the other clutch components. I am going to get all my ducks in a row, tools/parts/supplies and shoot for a weekend in a couple of weeks to do the majority of the work. In the meantime, as I already have all the fairings off, I am going to continue to break it down a little here and there to reduce the workload on the actual work days.

 

 

[SD1]

Looking for the correct clutch alignment tool. Wunderlich says this is the right one, but, they are out of stock. I found one on ebay, that "looks" the same, but trying to verify the part number. Here is the wunderlich part. I don't think their part number is a BMW part # but between the two listings, it does show that they fit on corresponding bikes including mine.

 

https://www.wunderlichamerica.com/BMW_K1200_R1200_R_nineT_Clutch_Centering_Tool

 

and the ebay part that IS available

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/275423797993?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-213727-13078-0&mkcid=2&itemid=275423797993&targetid=4580153136941822&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=&poi=&campaignid=437225723&mkgroupid=1224856224320864&rlsatarget=pla-4580153136941822&abcId=9300907&merchantid=51291&msclkid=c968ccc4e13615a25a0daf15001ec338

 

If anyone can verify that the ebay piece will work or can direct me to one or has one they would loan or sell to me, let me know.

 

Thanks!

 

-Doug

 

 

[dirtrider]

8 hours ago, SD1 said:

Looking for the correct clutch alignment tool. Wunderlich says this is the right one, but, they are out of stock. I found one on ebay, that "looks" the same, but trying to verify the part number. Here is the wunderlich part. I don't think their part number is a BMW part # but between the two listings, it does show that they fit on corresponding bikes including mine.

 

https://www.wunderlichamerica.com/BMW_K1200_R1200_R_nineT_Clutch_Centering_Tool

 

and the ebay part that IS available

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/275423797993?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-213727-13078-0&mkcid=2&itemid=275423797993&targetid=4580153136941822&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=&poi=&campaignid=437225723&mkgroupid=1224856224320864&rlsatarget=pla-4580153136941822&abcId=9300907&merchantid=51291&msclkid=c968ccc4e13615a25a0daf15001ec338

 

If anyone can verify that the ebay piece will work or can direct me to one or has one they would loan or sell to me, let me know.

Morning Doug

 

The proper sized clutch centering pins are__ 

 

1150RT    oilhead      P/N   83300401771    

1200RT  hexhead)    P/N   83300401768  

 

The  Wunderlich shows the same disk centering alignment tool for both the oilhead & hexhead but that doesn't sound correct.  (you might call them or E-Mail them on this)

 

The E-Bay one shows the BMW 1200C but that isn't a hexhead engine/transmission so the 1200C is for a different motorcycle (not a hexhead).

 

I made my own centering pins on my lathe but all I have available at the moment to measure is my 1150 as my 1200 hexhead centering  pin is loaned out to a friend in another state for his winter hexhead clutch replacement. 

 

In reality you really don't need a centering pin if you have a good eye as I have installed number of clutches by lining the disk up by eye.   

 

 

 

[SD1]

@dirtrider I agree it could be done without, I have read posts of eyeing it up or measuring it to insure its centered. I just don't know if trying to fit the gear box on is going to jar it or cause it to move (not like the alignment tool would hold it in place either).  Watching two people putting the gear box in place, it looks like it goes back on without a lot of fuss assuming reasonably steady hands and alignment.

 

I guess my question would be, if I do get it properly lined up, will it stay in that spot or is it pretty loose and susceptible to moving around during the process? 

 

And thanks for the comment regarding the alignment tool, it is a bit nebulous. Little frustrating too.

 

Thanks

 

-Doug

[dirtrider]

46 minutes ago, SD1 said:

@dirtrider I agree it could be done without, I have read posts of eyeing it up or measuring it to insure its centered. I just don't know if trying to fit the gear box on is going to jar it or cause it to move (not like the alignment tool would hold it in place either).  Watching two people putting the gear box in place, it looks like it goes back on without a lot of fuss assuming reasonably steady hands and alignment.

 

I guess my question would be, if I do get it properly lined up, will it stay in that spot or is it pretty loose and susceptible to moving around during the process? 

 

And thanks for the comment regarding the alignment tool, it is a bit nebulous. Little frustrating too.

 

Afternoon Doug

 

You better hope that disk is clamped extremely tight or the clutch will slip like crazy when you try to ride the motorcycle. 

 

 

 

 

[9Mary7]

18 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon Doug

 

You better hope that disk is clamped extremely tight or the clutch will slip like carry when you try to ride the motorcycle. 

 

 

 

 

+1....... If bumping the disc with the input shaft on assembly moves it then you got other problems

[jdub53]

I've replaced clutches in my R1100RS Oilhead and R1200GSA Hexhead without using an alignment tool and everything worked perfectly.

 

For the Hexhead, I loosely bolted up the new clutch assembly and eyeballed/moved the friction disc as close to centered as I could. I engaged the gearbox input shaft splines with the clutch splines, and then slid the gearbox into position engaging the two locating dowels with the engine case which perfectly centered the friction disc to the gearbox. I tightened one of the exposed clutch bolts at the top of the gearbox, slid the gearbox back off, torqued the new clutch bolts to spec in a cross pattern, applied the spline lube then slid the gearbox back on and torqued the three mount bolts to the engine case. 

 

[SD1]

@jdub53 Thank you sir, that is a very helpful bit of info. 

 

 

[jdub53]

14 hours ago, SD1 said:

@jdub53 Thank you sir, that is a very helpful bit of info. 

 

 

 

In case you can get anything else helpful from it, here's a thread I'd started about gearbox removal/installation steps on my '07 GSA: My R1200GSA Step-by-Step Gearbox Removal Process | Adventure Rider (advrider.com)

 

My clutch replacement on that bike is documented on this post in the thread, just over halfway down page 6:  My R1200GSA Step-by-Step Gearbox Removal Process | Page 6 | Adventure Rider (advrider.com)

 

Good luck with your project!

 

 

[SD1]

2 hours ago, jdub53 said:

 

In case you can get anything else helpful from it, here's a thread I'd started about gearbox removal/installation steps on my '07 GSA: My R1200GSA Step-by-Step Gearbox Removal Process | Adventure Rider (advrider.com)

 

My clutch replacement on that bike is documented on this post in the thread, just over halfway down page 6:  My R1200GSA Step-by-Step Gearbox Removal Process | Page 6 | Adventure Rider (advrider.com)

 

Good luck with your project!

 

 

Thank you! I am further along than I thought I would be. I am going to do the final disassembly today. My only issue so far, I ordered some fluids/spline grease online that I won't receive until next weekend. Are there any readily available Molybdenum products I can use on the splines? I see some run of the mill stuff at local auto parts, but none discloses high molybdenum content and the highest dropping point temp is 540 for Lucas oil "red tacky" grease.

 

Any suggestions? And thanks again for the links. Its really been straight forward so far, just taking a bit of time.

[dirtrider]

6 hours ago, SD1 said:

Thank you! I am further along than I thought I would be. I am going to do the final disassembly today. My only issue so far, I ordered some fluids/spline grease online that I won't receive until next weekend. Are there any readily available Molybdenum products I can use on the splines? I see some run of the mill stuff at local auto parts, but none discloses high molybdenum content and the highest dropping point temp is 540 for Lucas oil "red tacky" grease.

 

Any suggestions? And thanks again for the links. Its really been straight forward so far, just taking a bit of time.

Morning SD1

 

It depends on how much you want to pay. 

 

I usually keep a tube of Honda Moly Paste (M77) in my shop, I think that is about 70% moly. Not cheap at a Honda dealer (I usually get it on Amazon for about $15.00). If you are on Prime then probably by tomorrow or Monday. 

 

If you have a Honda motorcycle shop handy they should have it but more money. 

 

Whatever you use make sure that it is thick enough to not fling off & end up on the disk surface, also use it very sparingly. 

 

 

[Skywagon]

I would follow DR's recommendation. It's what I use. If that doesn't work for you, here is what I use on boat motor propeller shafts.  They spin at 1000's of rpms and are exposed to saltwater anytime they are in use.  It doesn't come off.  When I pull the props at roughly 100 hours the grease still looks fine.  It may not work for a bike.  It's usually available at most auto supply stores.  LiquiMolly makes a good moly waterproof, high temp grease as well.

 

[SD1]

Thanks @Skywagon I think the liquimoly would be my first choice but I can find any locally. The box auto stores carry the brand but don't have any in stock. I am not against using the red tacky from Lucas, just not my first choice.

[SD1]

Quick update. It is disassembled. Looks like Johnny "hammer clutch" Lawdawg put some heat into it. The top plastic cover warped to the point it contacted the flywheel which promptly sawed a hole right through it. My guess is the clutch was well on its way out and then got a dose of some plastic dust and particulate and called it quits.  The friction plate is gone gone. This is most clearly an operator induced failure.....

 

I spent about an hour cleaning everything. All looks good. Sanded the flywheel and pressure plate as there was some buildup, but other than that everything is clean. Not a drop of fluid anywhere, all the seals are intact. 

 

I had hoped to get the clutch/gearbox reinstalled and frame reconnected yesterday but since I am waiting for the clutch dust cover I decided to call it a day and finish it up next week. I did buy some grease, but now should have the enduralast on hand for assembly with the "delay"

 

I figure I have 2 more 2-2.5hr sessions to get it completed and think I will have +/- 10 hrs in to the project of actual work, double that thinking about it, (posting) and chasing down supplies. Keep in mind I am working at a very casual pace, I took pictures and notes and sorted things to help re-assembly flow smoothly.

 

Assuming I can properly refit the bits and pieces and accurately set the torque wrench, I am not anticipating any issues on the way out.

 

 

 

 

[jdub53]

How many miles on that friction disc? Understanding it's an RT-P likely not the same type of use seen by most RTs.

[SD1]

@jdub53 7300 miles. Mechanically identical to an RT. The only difference is the rear frame, no two up seat, radio box and the panniers are smaller. I am putting an oem friction disc back in, identical part # to the factory part that came out of it.

[Skywagon]

Post pictures if you can. Interesting in seeing the wear and what final disassembly looks like

[jdub53]

2 hours ago, SD1 said:

@jdub53 7300 miles. Mechanically identical to an RT. The only difference is the rear frame, no two up seat, radio box and the panniers are smaller. I am putting an oem friction disc back in, identical part # to the factory part that came out of it.

 

Wow, I can't imagine the severe abuse that clutch must have seen for the friction disc to be destroyed that quickly. Out of curiousity do you know how this happened?

 

In one of the links I posted earlier my 133k mile '07 GSA clutch components were shown, with the friction disc material still .2 mm or so above the minimum thickness established by BMW and that clutch had been slipped/gotten hot numerous times in off-road situations (rocks, mud, etc.). The other clutch component surfaces were in worse shape than my friction disc, but sounds like yours were good enough to clean up and reuse.

[9Mary7]

2 hours ago, jdub53 said:

Out of curiousity do you know how this happened?

Operator with no experience or training on the proper use of a dry clutch.

[SD1]

@jdub53 We discussed in the other thread. Agree with @9Mary7 was most likely inexperience with a dry clutch which while not the norm, not exactly rare on RTP's either. The bike came out of Birmingham AL, imagine repeated abuse day in and day out during a hot southern summer.....  

 

As you can see, its not just worn, it failed. It overheated and came apart. No way this bike made it back to the garage. 

[Skywagon]

Wow..Wonder where those pieces and rivets went?  

[SD1]

Where does this go? The hose off the top of the canister and the connector is present, but the hose that should be attached is missing? Not something I removed, but buttoning the bike up and this is floating around..... TIA

 

 

[dirtrider]

39 minutes ago, SD1 said:

Where does this go? The hose off the top of the canister and the connector is present, but the hose that should be attached is missing? Not something I removed, but buttoning the bike up and this is floating around..... TIA

 

 

 

Afternoon SD1

 

That vent hose connects to the the short vent hose exiting the front top of the fuel tank (there should be a plastic connector tube joining them) . 

 

 

[SD1]

Thank you @dirtrider I figured it out when I put the tank back on. : )

 

[SD1]

OK, all done. Lot of work and I did it slowly. I was done with the Mechanical stuff on Sun and spent a couple hours yesterday and today buttoning it up. I  basically watched a video of a guy doing a GS1200 in Italian, and just referenced it whenever I had a question or wanted to double check my work. It was VERY straight forward. I won't say it was easy, but it really did not require any technical expertise. I just made sure that everything went back where it was supposed to go, made sure that all of the critical bolts were properly torqued. The clutch alignment was maybe the only "critical" procedure, but even that was pretty easy. I could have done everything myself, and the only help I had was removing the rear frame and even that I could have done alone but my neighbor happened to be close by.

 

Admittedly I have done lots of work over the years so I am pretty familiar with how things work, but again, this does not require a very high level of expertise. So if you have the time and the inclination and you can follow some basic instructions you should be able to do it.

 

 

[Mark Cross]

Yes you can make your own, I did with the transmission rod and a 1/2 long socket to slip it through. 

When the clutch is released, doesn' t this all seem moot since the fiction disc then becomes separated and loose til engaged again.

 I have have 3 -1150's  ruin their clutch/trasnsmission shaft. and will never own another one.

 I replaced one with new parts and 1200miles later it ruined another shaft.

If you got a bum one, bad luck. 

 I find it curious how BMW never addressed this design flaw and when they changed to 1200 hexheads, they left the top with an inspection plastic cover on top so you can see alignment  inside? Never had a hexhead do this.

 Mark

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, Mark Cross said:

Yes you can make your own, I did with the transmission rod and a 1/2 long socket to slip it through. 

When the clutch is released, doesn' t this all seem moot since the fiction disc then becomes separated and loose til engaged again.

 I have have 3 -1150's  ruin their clutch/trasnsmission shaft. and will never own another one.

 I replaced one with new parts and 1200miles later it ruined another shaft.

If you got a bum one, bad luck. 

 I find it curious how BMW never addressed this design flaw and when they changed to 1200 hexheads, they left the top with an inspection plastic cover on top so you can see alignment  inside? Never had a hexhead do this.

 Mark

Morning Mark

 

Aligning the clutch disk to the center of the crankshaft has nothing to do with after-installation clutch usage or function.  

 

The alignment is strictly to allow for easy transmission install & to keep from bending the clutch disk hub during transmission installation (basically to prevent possible clutch part damage at transmission re-installation)