Buddy went down on Friday

[russell_bynum]

I have been reading this thread with interest. I agree with your second point, but not the first one, not everytime. There are times in heavy traffic when you can find yourself without a good escape exit. Some will say, you shouldn't have allowed yourself to get into such a predicament. But, let's face it, some traffic grids just don't allow for a cushion of safety in front, to the side, or behind you. Try and give yourself room in front of you and two cages will try and occupy that space before you can blink.

 

Stop thinking like a cager. You don't need an escape route that a car could fit through...you only need one that a bike will fit through.

 

You also don't need a hole big enough for you to go into and ride there indefinitely with adequate space on all sides. You only need a hole big enough to get through to save your life...then you can work your way back into traffic and a suitable gap.

 

In your example, it sounds like the solution was decelerating to open a hole for him.

 

You also honked your horn and he accidentally noticed and accidentally had a productive reaction...which was a bonus.

 

You probably also could have accelerated and moved to the far left edge of your lane, possibly even partially into the shoulder.

 

What would you have done if he hadn't noticed your horn? Or if he heard it and it startled him causing him to briefly swerve farther to the left (towards you)?

[flyingreg]

I have been reading this thread with interest. I agree with your second point, but not the first one, not everytime. There are times in heavy traffic when you can find yourself without a good escape exit. Some will say, you shouldn't have allowed yourself to get into such a predicament. But, let's face it, some traffic grids just don't allow for a cushion of safety in front, to the side, or behind you. Try and give yourself room in front of you and two cages will try and occupy that space before you can blink.

 

Stop thinking like a cager. You don't need an escape route that a car could fit through...you only need one that a bike will fit through.

 

You also don't need a hole big enough for you to go into and ride there indefinitely with adequate space on all sides. You only need a hole big enough to get through to save your life...then you can work your way back into traffic and a suitable gap.

 

In your example, it sounds like the solution was decelerating to open a hole for him.

 

You also honked your horn and he accidentally noticed and accidentally had a productive reaction...which was a bonus.

 

You probably also could have accelerated and moved to the far left edge of your lane, possibly even partially into the shoulder.

 

What would you have done if he hadn't noticed your horn? Or if he heard it and it startled him causing him to briefly swerve farther to the left (towards you)?

Boy Russell, you got it all figured out. Sure wish you just could have been there to give me pointers. I don't know how I survived, dumb luck I guess.

[russell_bynum]

Boy Russell, you got it all figured out. Sure wish you just could have been there to give me pointers. I don't know how I survived, dumb luck I guess.

 

That was a very productive response.

 

I'm being serious here.

 

You said There are times in heavy traffic when you can find yourself without a good escape exit.

 

I think that situation is VERY rare. Granted, I haven't been riding as long as lots of folks around here, but lots of my miles are in commute-time LA traffic, so it's not like I'm a total noob.

 

Or maybe I've got it wrong and you're right.

 

But nobody is going to learn anything if Ride Well debates deteriorate into defensive attacks.

 

So...back to the topic and my question to you: What would you have done if he hadn't noticed your horn? Or if he heard it and it startled him causing him to briefly swerve farther to the left (towards you)?

[WeirdHarold]

Stop thinking like a cager. You don't need an escape route that a car could fit through...you only need one that a bike will fit through.

 

Interesting point. Yes, a car needs a much larger escape route.

 

Since my RT is my only transportation, I seldom drive a car at all. When I do (every few months), it takes some effort to "think like a cager" again.

 

When I borrow my wife's Jeep Grand Cherokee, I'm always surprised at how little space there is between me and the car next to me. I'm used to being able to move over 8 or 10 feet and still stay in my lane (I have the LARGE side cases). I can move from one side of the lane to the other in order to make more space between me and a car that is temporarily beside me, or to better see around the car in front. I have good visibility all around me. I can quickly change lanes as needed. I can speed up to get away from a cluster of cars when the situation calls for it. I can speed up or slow down to get away from a car that wants to run along beside me for more than a few seconds.

 

With the SUV, tha lane has only room to move over two or three feet. And no possibility of moving over far enough to see around to the right of a car in front. And the visibility in the SUV isn't nearly as good, with the pillars and rearview mirror and roofline. And SUVs are quite poor at swerving. And the acceleration's not as good. And the seat's not as comfortable. I'm forced to sit in the cruiser position with my feet forward and all my weight on my tailbone. Can't use the MYRP.

 

It's an uncomfortable feeling. Makes me wonder how people can spend such a large part of their lives driving the things.

 

The steel and airbags around me provide better protection than my Aerostich suit, but that's only useful after I've crashed.

 

Don

[russell_bynum]

Interesting point. Yes, a car needs a much larger escape route.

 

Exactly. People talk about being stuck in heavy traffic with "nowhere to go". But the fact is that it is pretty rare for cars to be so close to each other that a bike can't fit though (even a big wide BMW with saddlebags).

 

I think lots of riders are still thinking like cagers...that they need an escape route that a car could fit though when, in reality, they need about 1/3 as much space as a car would.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Hang in there Russell, your right. I happen to be in LA now and let me tell you, you guys in California have it easy. Traffic here tends to move quite well and you have both wide lanes and a much higher percentage of good drivers than we have in Florida. Trust me, a week in SE Florida would have you thinking about just packing it in rather than face the level of agression and stupidity we get every day.

 

There is no situation I can envision that leaves one without at least some minimal escape route except possibly a

[russell_bynum]

You're right, Ed. For the density of traffic that we have, it flows pretty well. Of course, that depends on where/when you are. There are plenty of places that are full-on parking lots.

 

Sometimes I wonder if the fact that people here are so tied up in their own image that they don't notice anyone else is actually a good thing.

 

<hijack>

What are you doin' out here in the land of Fruits and Nuts? Sorry we couldn't cook up some better weather for ya, but this is fairly typical of this time of year.

</hijack>

[BFish]

what a great dialogue with minimal insults and maximum inteliigent discourse.

 

to sum it up

-we're all happy the LT rider is ok

-it's our responsiblity to be aware, have an escape route and plan accordingly

-no matter how pissed we get at "cages" it's not going to preclude an incident similar to this from happening to any of us.

 

so like a boy scout we must be prepared. the moving object next to us, in the woods, in the air, etc. is not assumed to be aware of our presence. ride safe

[flyingreg]

Your making me blush now. Defensive attacks, don't be so sensitive. I guess you didn't notice my winks to you in my post.

 

I didn't go into allot of detail on what I would or could have done had I had to, because I was trying to keep the post short. Of course if the situation had dictated I would have decelerated more and used braking, or moved close to the retaining wall until I could get out of harms way. I would have done whatever it took to stay up and alive. In this situation, I was in a lane moving faster than the others. On my left was a barrier wall and I was closed in front and back. Also, at the moment the car tried to move into me, there was no room to split to my right front. I don't normally let myself get boxed in, but admit it, you can't say you have never been in a situation where you were blocked in on all sides, even for a moment. As you said, this is a RARE ocassion, and this was one of them. I have no fear of splitting lanes and do in CA all the time. But when in Rome (Las Vegas in this case) you do as the Romans do, unless you are trying to save your bacon.

 

As for thinking like a cager, I don't even own a car! I haven't owned one in at least four years, riding every day.

[russell_bynum]

Good response, Greg.

 

That whole "barrier on the left when riding in the #1 lane" thing is a funny issue. On one hand, it's pretty unlikely that you'll have to deal with something coming at you from the left. On the other hand, your escape paths to the left are severely limited. It's a touchy situation.

 

Your reaction (slow down and move left) was what I probably would have done. Honking the horn wasn't, because I had one joker who jerked the wheel when I honked at him, and he nearly swerved into me. It sounds like you were prepared for that...which is great.

 

But when in Rome (Las Vegas in this case) you do as the Romans do, unless you are trying to save your bacon.

 

I agree totally.

[flyingreg]

Thanks Russell!

 

As for the horn, it was kinda relfex. I was directly adjacent to the drivers door that was moving over into my lane. I don't remeber which track I was in. I was watching him and when he started moving, closing the six feet separating us, I blew the horn. In this case, it worked. Believe me when I say I do not rely on my horn as a defensive manuever. But it is there for a reason even though they are ignored most of the time.