Unkown debris in engine oil

[jeffyjeff]

2002 R1150R, 50,786 miles.

At the 45,000 mile oil change, I noticed some flakes in the drain pan after I emptied it into a jug for recycling.  It did not look good, but I did not carefully inspect the pan before draining the oil, and thought that they might be left over from another vehicle.  I cut the filter open and found no debris between the media pleats; that made me feel better.  At 50,000 miles, I noticed more debris; now I am concerned.  I ordered an oil analysis kit for the next oil change, which I have yet to use.  Last week I noticed some debris in the sight glass when I checked the oil.  Holy crap!  Today, I drained the oil and filtered it through a nylon stocking.  The photographs show what the stocking caught. I replaced the oil filter, and will cut the old filter open after it drains.  This time, I'll stretch out the media to perhaps reveal more than I saw the first time.  Hard to believe that with this much stuff in the sump that the filter isn't near to being clogged.  Maybe the pickup tube screen is near to being clogged, but I haven't seen the oil pressure light flicker yet.  To my best estimation, all the debris shown was generated in the last 786 miles.

 

The debris is non-ferrous (not attracted to a magnet),  but appears metallic.

The pieces resemble aluminum, but they are way too fragile to be aluminum (in my experience) they crumble way too easily.  Rub between your thumb and forefinger and it turns to paste.

I thought it might be babbitt, but if it is bearing material, there is little evidence of any wiping action.  The one exception is the off-color piece close to the dime.

The flecks resemble foil.  The dimples may be a clue to their origin, but I have never had an oilhead engine apart, and cannot venture a guess as to what is coming apart inside the motor.

The size of the flakes concerns me.  In my mind, big pieces shedding off internally foretell catastrophic failure.

 

Does anybody here have a clue as to what may be going on inside my engine?  The bike runs great; no performance complaints whatsoever.  It starts right up, good power, consistent fuel economy (43mpg) since day one of ownership, no exhaust smoke.  The motorcycle has been in my care for about 5 years and 30,000 miles.

 

[Red]

Maybe part of the tear off foil cover on an oil container?

[Jim Moore]

Those dimples on the big piece are certainly peculiar. 

[dirtrider]

5 hours ago, jeffyjeff said:

2002 R1150R, 50,786 miles.

At the 45,000 mile oil change, I noticed some flakes in the drain pan after I emptied it into a jug for recycling.  It did not look good, but I did not carefully inspect the pan before draining the oil, and thought that they might be left over from another vehicle.  I cut the filter open and found no debris between the media pleats; that made me feel better.  At 50,000 miles, I noticed more debris; now I am concerned.  I ordered an oil analysis kit for the next oil change, which I have yet to use.  Last week I noticed some debris in the sight glass when I checked the oil.  Holy crap!  Today, I drained the oil and filtered it through a nylon stocking.  The photographs show what the stocking caught. I replaced the oil filter, and will cut the old filter open after it drains.  This time, I'll stretch out the media to perhaps reveal more than I saw the first time.  Hard to believe that with this much stuff in the sump that the filter isn't near to being clogged.  Maybe the pickup tube screen is near to being clogged, but I haven't seen the oil pressure light flicker yet.  To my best estimation, all the debris shown was generated in the last 786 miles.

 

The debris is non-ferrous (not attracted to a magnet),  but appears metallic.

The pieces resemble aluminum, but they are way too fragile to be aluminum (in my experience) they crumble way too easily.  Rub between your thumb and forefinger and it turns to paste.

I thought it might be babbitt, but if it is bearing material, there is little evidence of any wiping action.  The one exception is the off-color piece close to the dime.

The flecks resemble foil.  The dimples may be a clue to their origin, but I have never had an oilhead engine apart, and cannot venture a guess as to what is coming apart inside the motor.

The size of the flakes concerns me.  In my mind, big pieces shedding off internally foretell catastrophic failure.

 

Does anybody here have a clue as to what may be going on inside my engine?  The bike runs great; no performance complaints whatsoever.  It starts right up, good power, consistent fuel economy (43mpg) since day one of ownership, no exhaust smoke.  The motorcycle has been in my care for about 5 years and 30,000 miles.

 

 

 

Morning jeffyjeff

 

I'm not sure what that junk is but it doesn't look to be from any parts of the BMW engine. It most likely was introduced into the crankcase during an oil change by being in the oil fill container, or in the funnel (or whatever was used as a funnel), or put into the oil fill hole by someone wanting to cause damage.

 

As Red said it could be the foil seal on an oil container but I haven't ever seen a foil seal having dimples. 

 

I don't have a good size comparison but I suppose it could be an oil container foil seal that was heated in the oil then being sucked tight to the oil suction tube screens (those have a number of evenly spaced small holes that could impress those dimples into the foil).

 

Those particles are probably too large to go through the oil suction screens (lubrication intake screen & cooling intake screen) then into the oil filter  but those pieces could sure plug the oil intake screens. 

Added: you might try cleaning those pieces up then arranging them on a piece of cardboard (like a jigsaw puzzle)  to see if you can get a diameter & shape of what it was. 

 

[Balibeemer]

What are the big round things?

[wbw6cos]

Dimes...?

[Lowndes]

jeffyjeff,

 

Might be worth the $15 to put a "snake cam" in the oil drain hole to have a look around, see how much of that stuff is on the oil suction screen and elsewhere, and see if everything else looks OK.

 

I have a couple of these little cams and can tell you they are very fiddly but they do work.  You have to download an app, depending on the phone OS, usually a free app, then get the cam to work and get used to it.  The focal distance on this one says "4-6 cm" (1.5 - 2.3 inches) which might be OK.  The 5.5mm (lighted} cam should go thru the drain plug hole.  Not sure how much room you have to manouver and get the cam turned to the pickup (90+°).  

 

You may want to go with an "all in one" camera/display unit for a few more dollars and less fiddling.  The main things to be aware of are the camera diameter, camera length, lighted, and resolution.

 

My cams came with small attachments that clip onto the barrel of the cam to pick up or move small items and small mirror to view 90° to the side which might be helpful for under the pickup screen.

 

If it turns out to be a foreign material, you might be able to flush out most of it with something like kerosene.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/264797559966?chn=ps&var=564621749462&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1AdnhxgA4QvSXW56wqcruxw57&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=564621749462_264797559966&targetid=&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9010799&poi=&campaignid=17597089569&mkgroupid=&rlsatarget=&abcId=9300988&merchantid=425236120&gclid=Cj0KCQiAgribBhDkARIsAASA5buIXAtQ3kIZ5cCDJOc-6OBn7Nvc5ylFvcet6JQaP2Yu7gyB12-iSNcaArQdEALw_wcB

 

 

One of mine:

[dirtrider]

23 minutes ago, Lowndes said:

jeffyjeff,

 

Might be worth the $15 to put a "snake cam" in the oil drain hole to have a look around, see how much of that stuff is on the oil suction screen and elsewhere, and see if everything else looks OK.

 

I have a couple of these little cams and can tell you they are very fiddly but they do work.  You have to download an app, depending on the phone OS, usually a free app, then get the cam to work and get used to it.  The focal distance on this one says "4-6 cm" (1.5 - 2.3 inches) which might be OK.  The 5.5mm (lighted} cam should go thru the drain plug hole.  Not sure how much room you have to manouver and get the cam turned to the pickup (90+°).  

 

You may want to go with an "all in one" camera/display unit for a few more dollars and less fiddling.  The main things to be aware of are the camera diameter, camera length, lighted, and resolution.

 

My cams came with small attachments that clip onto the barrel of the cam to pick up or move small items and small mirror to view 90° to the side which might be helpful for under the pickup screen.

 

If it turns out to be a foreign material, you might be able to flush out most of it with something like kerosene.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/264797559966?chn=ps&var=564621749462&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1AdnhxgA4QvSXW56wqcruxw57&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=564621749462_264797559966&targetid=&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9010799&poi=&campaignid=17597089569&mkgroupid=&rlsatarget=&abcId=9300988&merchantid=425236120&gclid=Cj0KCQiAgribBhDkARIsAASA5buIXAtQ3kIZ5cCDJOc-6OBn7Nvc5ylFvcet6JQaP2Yu7gyB12-iSNcaArQdEALw_wcB

 

 

 

One of mine:

 

Morning Lowndes

 

I'm not sure how much access a camera would have. The intake screens are pretty close to the bottom of the crankcase & the drain plug access is in the vertical wall between the 2 intake screens (appx where red arrow is in picture)  

 

[Lowndes]

Dirtrider,

 

Looks kinda impossible.

 

Couple of questions -

 

What does the "vertical wall" look like just above the drain hole??  Is it right down on top of the hole or arched above the drain hole??

 

Whould it be possible to get a snake cam in thru the cam chain sprocket cover on either head and into the bottom of the case for a look see??

 

 

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, Lowndes said:

Dirtrider,

 

Looks kinda impossible.

 

Couple of questions -

 

What does the "vertical wall" look like just above the drain hole??  Is it right down on top of the hole or arched above the drain hole??

 

Whould it be possible to get a snake cam in thru the cam chain sprocket cover on either head and into the bottom of the case for a look see??

 

Morning Lowndes

 

It's been a while since I have had an 1150 crankcase apart, that drain plug in drilled just a little off-center but in the wall. If I remember correctly there is kind of an arched cutout in the wall above drain plug (enough of a passage to allow both sides of that wall to drain oil).

 

You can probably get in through the cam chain area but I doubt the camera end could make the turn to see much under the oil intake screens. (it would be pretty oily in there anyhow)

 

There is a sort of wall behind the oil sight glass so that won't work either.

 

Hopefully, as the oil changes are done most of that junk will come out with the HOT drain oil. After engine is run long enough to get hot (thinner) oil hopefully there is enough quick drain-back to dislodge some of the debris stuck to the bottom of the oil intake screens. 

 

Added: picture with oil tubes removed to somewhat show the drain plug cutout__

 

 

 

[Lowndes]

Perfect!!  There may be enough room to just put the cam up into the drain hole with the 90° mirror like a periscope and view both intake screens.

 

I would certainly try this before splitting the cases.

 

 

The mirror threads onto the cam barrel:

[jeffyjeff]

Thanks for the timely responses, guys.  I feel better now with the understanding that my engine is not likely shedding parts internally.  Maybe I'll learn more after cutting open the oil filter.

I have response to some of your comments.

12 hours ago, Red said:

Maybe part of the tear off foil cover on an oil container?

That is sure what it looks like.  But the pieces are so fragile. They are super thin-almost like the foil in a Wrigley gum wrapper.  

 

8 hours ago, Jim Moore said:

Those dimples on the big piece are certainly peculiar. 

Look carefully and you will notice that they are all dimpled.  The pick up tube photo that D.R. posted might shed some light as to their origin.  Maybe the dimples were impressed on the foil flakes inside the engine.

8 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Morning jeffyjeff

 

I'm not sure what that junk is but it doesn't look to be from any parts of the BMW engine. It most likely was introduced into the crankcase during an oil change by being in the oil fill container, or in the funnel (or whatever was used as a funnel), or put into the oil fill hole by someone wanting to cause damage.

 

As Red said it could be the foil seal on an oil container but I haven't ever seen a foil seal having dimples. 

Added: you might try cleaning those pieces up then arranging them on a piece of cardboard (like a jigsaw puzzle)  to see if you can get a diameter & shape of what it was. 

 

D.R. Thank you for sharing your expertise.  I'm comforted to know that my engine is not disintegrating from within.  I cannot believe that I introduced anything foreign into the engine; I am very meticulous about cleanliness during engine service.  Shit happens, though, so I cannot rule out that theory entirely.  Trying to solve the jigsaw puzzle would be futile; the pieces are so fragile that they break apart at a very slight touch.  Also, I first noticed the flecks at the 45K oil change, so some of the pieces are literally "down the drain".

6 hours ago, Balibeemer said:

What are the big round things?

The round thing is a dime (a ten cent US coin, 18mm diameter) that I put there for size comparison.

 

6 hours ago, Lowndes said:

Might be worth the $15 to put a "snake cam" in the oil drain hole to have a look around, see how much of that stuff is on the oil suction screen and elsewhere, and see if everything else looks OK.

Lowndes, thanks for that recommendation.  I have never heard of such an inexpensive scope.  Surely this is something to consider.

 

At this point, I really don't intend to disassemble the engine.  The expense in time and money would cost more than the motorcycle is worth, and although the bike has been fun, I am really not that emotionally attached to it.   I only put 5,000 miles on it this year, so if I keep that up for another 40,000 miles, the bike will last another eight years.  By that time, I'll be in my late 70"s, and probably ready to hang it up downsize to a CB300 or a SuperCub.  For the moment, my plan is to keep riding the bike, and perhaps strain the oil a few times between changes until the debris are gone.  I'll send in a sample for analysis at the next oil change, and go from there.

 

Edit: I thought that I might try removing the spark plugs, engaging 5th or 6th gear, and turning the rear wheel backwards to force oil back out the pick up tube and perhaps clear out any debris that might be clinging to the pickup tube screen.  Thoughts?

 

Thanks all for your thoughts and response.  I feel a little bit better now.  Ride safe, rubber side down.

Jeff J.

[dirtrider]

59 minutes ago, jeffyjeff said:

Thanks for the timely responses, guys.  I feel better now with the understanding that my engine is not likely shedding parts internally.  Maybe I'll learn more after cutting open the oil filter.

I have response to some of your comments.

That is sure what it looks like.  But the pieces are so fragile. They are super thin-almost like the foil in a Wrigley gum wrapper.  

 

Look carefully and you will notice that they are all dimpled.  The pick up tube photo that D.R. posted might shed some light as to their origin.  Maybe the dimples were impressed on the foil flakes inside the engine.

D.R. Thank you for sharing your expertise.  I'm comforted to know that my engine is not disintegrating from within.  I cannot believe that I introduced anything foreign into the engine; I am very meticulous about cleanliness during engine service.  Shit happens, though, so I cannot rule out that theory entirely.  Trying to solve the jigsaw puzzle would be futile; the pieces are so fragile that they break apart at a very slight touch.  Also, I first noticed the flecks at the 45K oil change, so some of the pieces are literally "down the drain".

The round thing is a dime (a ten cent US coin, 18mm diameter) that I put there for size comparison.

 

Lowndes, thanks for that recommendation.  I have never heard of such an inexpensive scope.  Surely this is something to consider.

 

At this point, I really don't intend to disassemble the engine.  The expense in time and money would cost more than the motorcycle is worth, and although the bike has been fun, I am really not that emotionally attached to it.   I only put 5,000 miles on it this year, so if I keep that up for another 40,000 miles, the bike will last another eight years.  By that time, I'll be in my late 70"s, and probably ready to hang it up downsize to a CB300 or a SuperCub.  For the moment, my plan is to keep riding the bike, and perhaps strain the oil a few times between changes until the debris are gone.  I'll send in a sample for analysis at the next oil change, and go from there.

 

Edit: I thought that I might try removing the spark plugs, engaging 5th or 6th gear, and turning the rear wheel backwards to force oil back out the pick up tube and perhaps clear out any debris that might be clinging to the pickup tube screen.  Thoughts?

 

Thanks all for your thoughts and response.  I feel a little bit better now.  Ride safe, rubber side down.

Jeff J.

Afternoon Jeff 

 

I was going to suggest that very thing but the more I thought about it the more I didn't think it would do much. It won't hurt to try but I don't think there is a lot to be gained. 

 

I'm not sure I would mess with much until you do a few more oil changes to see how much more actually comes out on it's own. 

(reuse the strained oil)  

 

I would not change the filter but just remove & strain the oil QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE right after a long ride.  

[Lowndes]

jeffyjeff,

 

About the worst place the foil could be is on the face of those intake screens.  You won't see it in the filter but it could be starving the entire engine of oil.  I'd want to know the screens are clear most of all.

 

I kinda doubt it is the "tear off foil cover on an oil container" as those usually have a clear plastic film on one side.  It looks more like the foil on the inside of an old cardboard oil can but I haven't seen those in years, decades.  Your idea of "the foil in a Wrigley gum wrapper" sounds more plausible.  If thats what it is, there's a chance the paper is in there, too.  It would hold together better, be more tear resistant than the foil and could also block the intake screens.  Is there a chance someone rolled up a wrapper in a small ball and tossed it in the garage where it ended up in your funnel??

 

I'll mail you this cam to use to see if you can view the screens with it, but it might be cheaper to just have a new one sent to you!!  My '99 R1100S engine may have very similar internals and I could test mine here before sending it to you.  Dirtrider would know about the internals.

[Lowndes]

Yep.  Free shipping on a new one.  Where do you want it shipped to??

 

Let me try this as a test run on my R1100S in the morning.  I'll try to post some pics of it.

 

[dirtrider]

Afternoon Lowndes, Jeff

 

The BMW 1100/1150 boxer has 2 oil pumps, one for lubrication & one for cooling. 

 

The cooling side does not go through a filter so the inlet screen is about all you have on that circuit. 

 

The lubrication side does go through the filter before going to & lubricating the important & critical engine parts.

 

With (whatever that is) being so crumbly & brittle the rotors in the oil pumps will most likely pulverize anything that gets through the inlet screens so I doubt you will see any pump or oil circuit damage (might or might not be a little in the oil filter eventually but probably not much).

 

You can try to look in through the drain hole but I doubt you can see much (maybe but I wouldn't count on it).

 

See what comes out during the next oil straining, if you are still seeing pieces come out then maybe buy a 1 gallon garden sprayer & put about 1/2 -3/4 gallons of mineral spirits with just a little motor oil in the mineral spirits. Then take the sprayer nozzle off of the end & try to make a new 45° copper tube sprayer nozzle (just a little bend right at the end).

Put enough bend in the copper tube so it can go in through the drain plug opening & sort of squirt moderate pressure mineral sprits/oil mix on & across the inlet screens. Point it rearward & forward then spray away. Then see if it washes any more pieces off of the inlet screens.

 

Those oil pump rotors mesh pretty tight with each other & with the pump housing so I seriously doubt that you can force anything back through the pumps to do any good.      

 

 

 

   

[Skywagon]

Whatever you do, don’t succumb to the flush it with diesel or gasoline methodology.  I’ve seen that done a couple times but it is quite harmful to seals and some other parts. A friend was changing the oil on his airplane engine. He let it drain overnight. He cleaned up using oil sorb. He made the mistake of mixing up buckets and poured the used oil full of sorb back in the engine. He only got about 2 quarts back in before he realized what happened. The engine mfg told him to flush with diesel first, then with gasoline to get rid of diesel film. Engine leaked like a sive after that. He ended up having to tear it down. I see lots of internet advice on flushing. Big mistake IMHO

[dirtrider]

8 minutes ago, Skywagon said:

Whatever you do, don’t succumb to the flush it with diesel or gasoline methodology.  I’ve seen that done a couple times but it is quite harmful to seals and some other parts. A friend was changing the oil on his airplane engine. He let it drain overnight. He cleaned up using oil sorb. He made the mistake of mixing up buckets and poured the used oil full of sorb back in the engine. He only got about 2 quarts back in before he realized what happened. The engine mfg told him to flush with diesel first, then with gasoline to get rid of diesel film. Engine leaked like a sive after that. He ended up having to tear it down. I see lots of internet advice on flushing. Big mistake IMHO

Evening David

 

Definitely no gasoline, I have seen valve covers blown off, oil pans so swelled up that the attaching bolts can't be accessed,  oil dip stick's blown 10 feet in the air, engine seals blown out, & other explosive engine damage due to flushing with gasoline.  (the explosive gasoline vapors remain in the engine cavities for a long time even after draining)

 

Diesel isn't a good flushing agent as it doesn't do much.

 

kerosene is slightly better but still not very good & remains longer than needed.

 

Mineral spirits works fairly good but still not great but it does pretty well evaporate in time or as the engine heats. 

 

In any case I never recommend flushing by running the engine with whatever flushing agent is in the crankcase as that can carry some of the slurry into the bearings & score oil pump rotors & housings as oil filters do not catch some of the thinner slurry plus at start up some of the oil usually by-passes the oil filter through the by-pass valve.    

 

 

 

 

[Lowndes]

This is a pic of my pocketknife thru the snake cam. The resolution is enough to see junk where it shouldn't be.  I'll try this on the bike in the morning.

 

[Skywagon]

1 hour ago, dirtrider said:

In any case I never recommend flushing

No I know you didn’t. Was just trying to beat away the internet in case someone went there. Glad you kicked in with same view. 

[jeffyjeff]

4 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Those oil pump rotors mesh pretty tight with each other & with the pump housing so I seriously doubt that you can force anything back through the pumps to do any good.         

Actually, I was thinking that the pump rotors (turning backwards) would move oil out of the coolers and back out the pick up tube.  But I did not know that there are two oil pumps.  Thanks for the info. 

[jeffyjeff]

2 hours ago, Lowndes said:

This is a pic of my pocketknife thru the snake cam. The resolution is enough to see junk where it shouldn't be.  I'll try this on the bike in the morning.

Lowndes, thanks for your interest in my little problem and for taking action on my behalf.  I'm looking forward to learning more about the endoscope and what it will be able to see.

Big ride tomorrow; 250 miles with some of my VFR buddies.  Lots of miles testing my limits; throttle pegged in second and third gear through twisty canyon roads.

[Hosstage]

That ride sounds like a gas! Have fun and run it hard. If it blows, they'll make another for you...

[Lowndes]

The engine is still dripping oil but I managed to get the cam with the 90° mirror up into the drain hole. It does fit!!   I couldn't get any shots before the lens was covered in oil.  Will let it drain for several more hours, not sure if the oil cooler is slowly draining or what.  More later.

[dirtrider]

38 minutes ago, Lowndes said:

The engine is still dripping oil but I managed to get the cam with the 90° mirror up into the drain hole. It does fit!!   I couldn't get any shots before the lens was covered in oil.  Will let it drain for several more hours, not sure if the oil cooler is slowly draining or what.  More later.

Morning Lowndes

 

They will usually drip for a long time as oil drains back from oil passages, oil circuits, & from various surfaces.

 

You might try putting a folded blanket or old coat on the ground then getting some help & lean the motorcycle over on one of it's valve covers. The oil will still drain back but it will pool in the low side of the crankcase & hopefully not out of the drain hole. 

 

Possibly just putting motorcycle on side stand after it drains overnight on center stand will give you a window of time to take a look without oil coming out of the drain hole.    

[Lowndes]

Thanks, Dirtrider.  Just came in from trying it again, still dripping.  Sidestand sounds easy.  Back out there.

 

Edit: About a minute after I put it on the sidestand it started pouring oil out again.  It must be coming from the cooler.  About 1/3 cup so far and still coming.  I'll let this sit and drain for a while.

[dirtrider]

54 minutes ago, Lowndes said:

Thanks, Dirtrider.  Just came in from trying it again, still dripping.  Sidestand sounds easy.  Back out there.

 

Edit: About a minute after I put it on the sidestand it started pouring oil out again.  It must be coming from the cooler.  About 1/3 cup so far and still coming.  I'll let this sit and drain for a while.

Evening  Lowndes

 

Yes, let it drain for while then put it back on the center stand for while to fully empty the crankcase again, then back on the side stand. 

 

Those boxer engines trap a lot of oil in the bottom of the valve covers & possibly trap some in the oil cooler lower few cross bars. 

 

 

[Lowndes]

Sorry for the long delay.  It was 31°F this morning but the oil stopped dripping at about 1/2 cup overnight.  

 

I tried and tried with the 90° mirror attachment but the focal length was just too long to get anything in focus.  Couldn't see squat.  Took some pics anyway of the view plus some with just a mirror looking up into the drain plug hole.  A small portion of the perforated screen on the rear (engine oil) oil pickup and the machined "wall" between the oil cooler and engine oil pickups are clearly visible.  The "wall" is slightly offset from the center of the hole for some reason.

 

After several cleanings, thinking it was the oil on the lens and mirror that was possibly messing up my, ah-hum, "photography", I dug out another snake cam just to try something different.  The first camera is a 7mm (barrel dia) that I carry in the tool bag (and I thought it was the smaller cam).  When I dug out the second cam it was much smaller looking at 5mm diameter.  It's a bigger difference than the numbers would seem to infer.  See pic below.

 

Tried the 90° mirror but it was worse yet.  About to call it, I decided to take the mirror off and just look at and into the hole without the 90° mirror.  Turns out that with the smaller dia cam barrel the cam can be angled enough in the hole to see most of both pickup screens, I'd say 70% of each, by swiveling the cam in the hole.  The last 6 pics of the pickup screen in my set are the forward (oil cooler) oil pump pickup screen, the others are the engine oil pickup screen.

 

Looking at the pics of the pickup screens, these aren't just holes in a flat/convex surface but holes in dimples with the hole being about 50% of the dimple diameter.  Also, the pattern of the dimples and "apparent" size of the dimples seem to be a very good match between the pics of your "debris" and my pickup screens.

 

Apparently, the pressure differential between the crank case oil and the oil inside of the pick up was enough to dimple the foil but not enough to hole the foil.  I think that is a good omen (as in the oil pump was not starved).

 

I'll mail you the 5mm cam if you want to view your screens.  At the very least you might look up into the drain hole with a mirror after draining to see if there is any debris that is hanging on the edge or just too big to go thru the hole.  Be on the lookout for the paper backer of the gum wrapper.  The foil and paper are usually stuck together with wax which would melt in the hot oil and they would separate.

 

All the pics here:  https://photos.app.goo.gl/DdyNcCq7ubrpNd8J8

 

With a "dental mirror", up and into the drain hole:

 

 

With a 90° mirror (can't see squat):

 

Without the 90° mirror -  NOT the best focus but if there were anything on there you would see it:

 

5mm cam in the drain hole looking at the oil cooler pump pickup screen:

 

 

Difference in the 5mm and 7mm cams:

 

 

 

[jeffyjeff]

Yesterday I took the bike out for a 9 hour, 249 mile ride through the hills east of San Francisco Bay with some riders I met in 2010 when I had my first VFR.  What a glorious day!  Most of our group is much younger than me and possess skills that I can only dream of.  As a result, I rode "sweeper" most of the time (a kind way of saying "last place").  Though it was hardly a race, I did my best to keep up and as a result, my engine ran along between 6K and redline most of the day.  Where else can an old baby boomer like me find friends 30 years his junior; people who make him feel valued and respected? 

 

But I digress.  Upon return, I drained the hot oil within seconds of shutting the engine off.  This morning I strained the cool oil, and this is all I found; my guess is that it was left over in the engine from earlier, and that no new debris have migrated into the crankcase.  I'll probably defer further action until my next oil change at 55K, which probably won't be until this time next year.  Thanks, Lowndes, for your efforts on my behalf.    My strategy at this point is basically "live with it".  As stated earlier, the bike runs great.  Any damage my engine may have suffered has already been done.  Since the consensus is that the origin of the debris is not the engine itself, I doubt that opening up the engine will do much other than satisfy my curiosity (and it may well not even do that!)

 

Thanks all for your interest and feedback.  Ride safe.  rubber side down.  Jeff J.

 

[Lowndes]

Jeffyjeff - I agree.  Sounds like you have it cleared and everything is OK in the engine.

 

Sounds like a great group, too.  Allways more fun to ride with a group that rides like you like to ride.

 

Don't forget to put the stockings back in the wife's underware drawer.

[dirtrider]

9 hours ago, jeffyjeff said:

Yesterday I took the bike out for a 9 hour, 249 mile ride through the hills east of San Francisco Bay with some riders I met in 2010 when I had my first VFR.  What a glorious day!  Most of our group is much younger than me and possess skills that I can only dream of.  As a result, I rode "sweeper" most of the time (a kind way of saying "last place").  Though it was hardly a race, I did my best to keep up and as a result, my engine ran along between 6K and redline most of the day.  Where else can an old baby boomer like me find friends 30 years his junior; people who make him feel valued and respected? 

 

But I digress.  Upon return, I drained the hot oil within seconds of shutting the engine off.  This morning I strained the cool oil, and this is all I found; my guess is that it was left over in the engine from earlier, and that no new debris have migrated into the crankcase.  I'll probably defer further action until my next oil change at 55K, which probably won't be until this time next year.  Thanks, Lowndes, for your efforts on my behalf.    My strategy at this point is basically "live with it".  As stated earlier, the bike runs great.  Any damage my engine may have suffered has already been done.  Since the consensus is that the origin of the debris is not the engine itself, I doubt that opening up the engine will do much other than satisfy my curiosity (and it may well not even do that!)

 

Thanks all for your interest and feedback.  Ride safe.  rubber side down.  Jeff J.

 

 

Morning  jeffyjeff

 

If you were thrashing that motorcycle around for 9 hours plus running it into the 6K range & didn't blow it up or see any overheating  than you seem to have decent oil flow. 

 

Over time you might get some more flakes of that (whatever it is) come out at oil changes but it looks like most of it is already gone. 

 

Just keep an eye on the oil sight glass as small pieces of junk will sometimes work their way into the sight glass area. If that stays clean (pre-ride engine-off look) & an (occasional look with engine-running) after riding for a ways  (hot oil) then you are probably good to go. The larger pieces can't easily get into the sight glass but smaller ones can. 

[jeffyjeff]

5 hours ago, Lowndes said:

Don't forget to put the stockings back in the wife's underware drawer.

Oh that's funny!

 

5 hours ago, dirtrider said:

If you were thrashing that motorcycle around for 9 hours plus running it into the 6K range & didn't blow it up or see any overheating  than you seem to have decent oil flow. 

What would be the apparent signs of overheating?  Preignition/detonation?  Occasionally I'll feel behind the oil coolers to verify heat transfer.  I figure if it's cold behind the coolers, they are probably restricted.  I know that oil flow through the coolers is thermostatically controlled, so I wait until I figure the engine should be at normal operating temperature.  Are there any sounds, vibrations, smells, associated with overheating that you are aware of?  Thanks.

[dirtrider]

15 minutes ago, jeffyjeff said:

Oh that's funny!

 

What would be the apparent signs of overheating?  Preignition/detonation?  Occasionally I'll feel behind the oil coolers to verify heat transfer.  I figure if it's cold behind the coolers, they are probably restricted.  I know that oil flow through the coolers is thermostatically controlled, so I wait until I figure the engine should be at normal operating temperature.  Are there any sounds, vibrations, smells, associated with overheating that you are aware of?  Thanks.

Afternoon jeffyjeff

 

I presume that your (R) doesn't have a temperature gauge? 

 

Without a RID to see the engine exit oil temperature then you just about have to go by sound (they typically  rattle like a bucket full of chains when overheated) or if the oil cooling pump intake screen is plugged then probably not much hot oil going through the oil coolers.     

[jeffyjeff]

2 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Without a RID to see the engine exit oil temperature then you just about have to go by sound (they typically  rattle like a bucket full of chains when overheated) or if the oil cooling pump intake screen is plugged then probably not much hot oil going through the oil coolers.     

No temp gauge ; I don't know if they put them on R1150R's, but I don't have one.  I do, however, own an infrared temp gun that I use for AC service.  Upper temp limit is somewhere between 250 and 300F,  I can check out oil cooler temp before and after. Thanks again.