Ceramic Coated Head Pipes

[JamesW]

Winter is here and I guess I'm bored.  Was out in the shop today looking at my R1100RSL and began fretting over the close proximity of the lower body work to the head pipes especially on the left side and the possibility of ending up with scorched paint work.  So, my question is would ceramic coated head pipes reduce heat from the head pipes and paint damage at all?  I read on the internet that ceramic coating will improve exhaust flow and thus cooler operating head pipes.  I don't see how this is true but thought I'd ask anyway.  I can't get over what a poor design this is especially on the RSL model.   Interesting that BMW stopped selling the RSL in North America after some guy managed to forget he left his RSL idling in his garage and caught his house afire then sued BMW or so the story goes.

[wbw6cos]

I cannot confirm the effect on tupperware for bikes, but I saw some infrared video on Stacy David's television program, Gearz.  It showed the headers on a v-8 motor (side-by-side comparison) and it was a convincing idea for cooler pipes.   There are various levels of coatings for the budget and for the desired effect.    It seems like it would benefit your bike.  Hopefully, someone who has had it done can advise..

 

 

https://www.jet-hot.com/

[Lowndes]

I, too, can't see how an exterior coating reduces the heat, but I'm open to explanation/elicidation, well, within reason.  Less radiant heat emitted??  Possibly, as a "black body" is the best IR (infrared radiation) emitter (and receptor), but just exactly how much better than a shiney surface??  There's still the convective component.

 

Headers that are wrapped with a woven FG (or other) "tape" will reduce the heat radiated and conducted from the pipe (and pass more of it out the exhaust pipe).  https://www.amazon.com/Superfastracing-Fiberglass-Motorcycle-Manifold-Stainless/dp/B07JJPLYDT?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&psc=1&smid=A1Z4ORVQ0TMEUB

 

My '99 RT has thin aluminum-foil/foam-insulation/adhesive-pads on the inside of the tupperware nearest the header pipes (near the shark fins).  Can't see it without removing the panels or crawling around under the bike with a light.  Looks OEM.  Check your panels on the inside.

 

See what Dirtrider has to say on this subject in a similar post.

 

I'd bet that RSL was still idling when they got the house put out.

[wbw6cos]

Lowndes, both inside and the outside get the coating.

[JamesW]

16 hours ago, wbw6cos said:

I cannot confirm the effect on tupperware for bikes, but I saw some infrared video on Stacy David's television program, Gearz.  It showed the headers on a v-8 motor (side-by-side comparison) and it was a convincing idea for cooler pipes.   There are various levels of coatings for the budget and for the desired effect.    It seems like it would benefit your bike.  Hopefully, someone who has had it done can advise..

 

 

https://www.jet-hot.com/

 

OK, I went to their sight and requested a quote so we shall see what happens.  Thanks for this info  

[JamesW]

Found a ceramic coating company in my neck of the woods so no shipping costs  If it isn't too damaging to the pocket book I'll have it done.  Thanks again for the info. 

 

I will say that the Dominator muffler which I know reduced the exhaust back pressure has improved fuel economy and engine smoothness and I would think maybe lowered header temperature a bit so I have hope.

 

I'm thinking of selling my FJR and only having one motorcycle and that would have to be the BMW  just because and it would be my last bike.  Just seems appropriate. Absolutely nothing wrong with the FJR it's just that the days of long haul rides are pretty much over for me.  Hey, maybe the wife will humor me and let me put the BMW in the living room?  Never know  

[BABABeemer]

I had my header done at Performance Coatings and they did both inside and outside for a reasonable price.

[Skywagon]

Those look great. How do they look on the bike?

[JamesW]

4 hours ago, BABABeemer said:

I had my header done at Performance Coatings and they did both inside and outside for a reasonable price.

 

Wow!  Those do look great.  What color are they?  I took my headers off today and will ship to Portland tomorrow.  I am primarily interested in reducing heat in the area where the head pipes come closest to the painted tupperware and I wonder if color of the ceramic coatings makes a difference.  I don't see how it would but what do I know.  Those pipes are the same as mine.  Thanks so much for the great photo.  

[BABABeemer]

21 hours ago, Skywagon said:

Those look great. How do they look on the bike?

They look ok on the bike but the plastic kind of hides it. The plastic was already melted on the bike when I got it but I thought this would keep it from getting worse. The color is matte Silver.

I had the manifold done on my Rockster with Chromex and I think it looks better.

[JamesW]

My headers are on the way to Portland and the color will be satin black which is what they recommend for the best protection from heat which is my big concern.  Will be a couple weeks before I get them back and I'll post a picture then.  I insured the UPS package for $700 when I found out what  they cost new.  Good old over priced BMW but at least the headers are still available which is a plus for BMW.  Even though heat damage might be less I will still be super cautious.   At least where I live we don't ever see temperature extremes like inland.  This past summer we had one day when the temperature reached only 82 degrees.  Great sleeping weather for sure.  I've been on the Oregon Coast for 42 years and I'm NOT ever leaving.  Even the Californians can't drive me out. lol..lol..

[JamesW]

OK, got my head pipes back from the ceramic coater and they are, imo, beautiful.  PM me if you want info on the ceramic coater I used at Portland, OR.

 

[Red]

My neural net often goes tangential to linear problem solutions.  So, where does the heat go that would 'normally' radiate out of the headers?  Might that be a problem at the cylinder heads or down stream near the area that is not coated?  They look fantastic by the way.  

[JamesW]

5 hours ago, Red said:

My neural net often goes tangential to linear problem solutions.  So, where does the heat go that would 'normally' radiate out of the headers?  Might that be a problem at the cylinder heads or down stream near the area that is not coated?  They look fantastic by the way.  

Thanks.  That is a good question and I really don't understand how this ceramic coating which is also on the inside surface of the header manages to transfer or exhaust heat energy out of the exhaust system.  I'm also using a Dominator muffler which facilitates removal of the catalytic converter cat chamber and all.  After a ride I can lay my hand on the muffler without getting burned.  Haven't yet ridden the bike since adding the coated head pipes due to weather.  I've not read an explanation that really makes sense to me when it comes to this heat transfer but many sources claim it to be true with best results from the black ceramic coating.  The ceramic coating should also not be confused with a powder coat not the same critter.

[King Herald]

I'd assume the heat simply goes out the tail end of the exhaust, rather than soak into the header pipe material. I've heard that's better for performance, but I don't have any data.  

[JamesW]

5 hours ago, King Herald said:

I'd assume the heat simply goes out the tail end of the exhaust, rather than soak into the header pipe material. I've heard that's better for performance, but I don't have any data.  

Yeah, I guess so but I just don't understand the mechanics of it.  Wish I had a heat sensor so I could have performed a before and after heat measurement.  

[JamesW]

Coating was done by Finish Line Ceramic Coatings of Portland, Oregon.  Phone:  (503)659-4278.  Finish Line gave their permission for posting this contact info.  They are a small business and they do good work.  When you call say hi to Lona she is super to talk to and deal with.

[Lowndes]

The color black is a known better radiant heat absorber and emitter/radiator.  And heat is transferred in two ways, conduction and radiation.  The pipes get hot from conduction (hot gasses on cold steel) and the heat is then radiated out to the tupperware (they ain't touchin') at a rate that decreases by the square of the distance.  So how does this coating "protect" your tupperware??  And, just how does that mesh with the claim that "shiney" coatings also protect the tupperware from heat??  Even if it's coated inside , outside, topside, bottomside??  With one or both coatings??  Sounds an awful lot like "it will cure whatever ails you (just as long as your check/card clear our account)". 

 

I'm not from Missouri, but, '"SHOW ME" anyway.  I'd really like to understand this better.  

 

 

 

I think the black headers look best (IMHO).  But, will they stay that way ??

 

 

[Lowndes]

JamesW - What color is that bike??  I like it!!

[JamesW]

Hi Lowndes,  The color is called silver pearl coat and it supposedly has 5 coats of clear coat.  It seems to be pretty much immune from rock chips.  The bike is absolutely the best BMW I've ever owned.  I can actually ride non-stop between stops for fuel.  

 

Like you I find it hard to believe that the ceramic coating really will reduce heat from the head pipes to the tupperware.  I've tried to get google to help but I just can't find any info that really supports this theory.  That said I like the appearance of the black coating a lot and that alone is worth the $130 cost at least to me.  I'm really not into chrome as in: "If it don't go chrome it".  Seems I recall this statement originated in Milwaukee. lol..lol..

[BABABeemer]

Here is some data from the outfit that I used for my manifolds. I think this is for car manifolds but it should be similar for motorcycles.

[TSConver]

Just saw a show on Motortrend from the Engine Masters.  They did real world comparisons with a painted set of headers versus a ceramic coated set of headers versus a wrapped set of headers.  Same engine, same header just plain versus coated versus wrapped.  Done on controlled dyno pulls starting with the same initial EGTs and other factors.  So very comparable data.

 

They found that wrapped headers dropped the temperature at the surface of the header the best about 60 degrees compared to the painted. Also the wrapped raised the egt by a similar amount compared to the painted.  The ceramic coated and the painted headers were virtually identical.  The EGT temp was lower and about equal and the external temperature of the tube was higher and the ceramic was only marginally lower.  And bottom line the power curves for HP and torque for all three were identical.  There was no difference in power or torque between any of the three configurations.  Their conclusion was if you wanted lower engine bay temps for things like hoses and plug wire to wrap your headers otherwise there was no performance gain and ceramic versus paint was no difference at all even though the manufacturer claimed otherwise.