Rental Cam Tools and Shims

[Boxflyer]

A conceptual Proposal…

I’ve accumulated over 250 of the 8.90mm shims used on both the 1200 WetHead and 1250 ShiftHead.
These are at a size spacing of 0.02mm instead of the spacing that comes in the normal kits of 0.04mm.
The starter kits from Wiseco, at least, come in 23 sizes, I think, of which only about 12 sizes are in the common sizes we need for the bikes listed above….and 0.04mm apart, which makes it hard to fine tune your target valve clearance.

I’m just now trying out something new…a KIT that includes the 12k Crush Washers, a couple of BONUS tire valve caps, included with the below Shims.

A “RENTAL” set of 8.90mm Shims.
The shims would be a pair of each size of the 21 most commonly used shims needed to service our bikes…they would range from 2.00mm thru 2.40mm (in 0.02mm increments) and have a pretty hefty DEPOSIT that I would refund after I received them back with the ones removed from your bike during your 12k service.

If this works out, I may offer a RENTAL KIT that includes a Custom set of Metric Feeler Gauges specifically for the clearance needed for the OUR Valve Check, the Cam Chain Tensioner, TDC Locking Pin, Cam Alignment Jig (or Jigs for the 1250) 16mm Torque Adapter, and Engine Turning Tool…along with Digital Metric Micrometer and Low Range Torque Wrench.

….Basically all the tools needed to to perform a 12k Cam and Valve Check.

 

I only need to get burned once with this to STOP this proposal and STOP making Cam Timing Tools altogether. 

Please don’t reply here that you want in on this deal, but I’m soliciting ideas on how to do this to benefit our community while NOT losing my butt!

I’ve got a couple of shim kits out as RENTAL sets now, so hopefully this idea can gain some traction. 

Let me know if you have any experience with something like this. 
 

Thanks,
Boxflyer

(Brad)

 

 

[Geekmaster]

@Boxflyer I think this is a great idea. One way to provide the security that you and the the rentee need might be to use a service.  I took a quick look at https://sparetoolz.com and it looks like it might work.  It allows you to set a security deposit that the site would administer, so you don't have to worry about taking care of the credit card transactions yourself.

 

Alas, right now it's only an app on IOS (Apple), but they will have an Android app soon.  That probably will cover everyone that would need to use the rental kit.

[Boxflyer]

Thanks, just the kind of input I was looking for. 
Brad

[TSConver]

We used to have a shim kit on a zrx forum I was on. It was just sent from person to person. Take what you need and put your old ones in the kit. Worked well. No tools though. 

 

Also had a guy on a Cummins forum that rented out several high end scan tools to adjust the ecu on Cummins trucks. It worked well and had a large deposit to cover the tool. He always had several tools out at a time.

 

I think it is a great idea. Make the deposit big enough to cover the cost and then if you get burnt it does not matter. Or even allow the person to say hey I want to keep it just keep my deposit.

 

Great service to the community however you end up managing it.

 

 

[Boxflyer]

22 minutes ago, TSConver said:

Or even allow the person to say hey I want to keep it just keep my deposit.

Hey Shawn,

This is exactly what I don’t want to happen. 
I was thinking the goal would be to have the tools available for lots of people, not for someone to just be selfish and keep them and screw everyone else. 

The trade off is somewhere in the middle where it’s not to onerous of a deposit that it burdens a small time user and not too small of a rental fee where the few sets that I make available are snatched up by greedy one way jerks. 
 

It’s a “cosmic conundrum”…!

Brad

[wbw6cos]

Hi Brad,

 

Will there be a fixed cost for shipping?   Naturally, the renter will end up absorbing that cost, but will that include pre-paid shipping for back and forth?

 

Just curious.   I have my own specialty tools for Shift Cam service and also the cam alignment jig for 1200 motors.  I know it will not work with my bike, but I have it in the off-chance any of local homies need it for a tech day, or something.   

 

Thanks for all your input and efforts pertaining to my DIY 12 k service.

 

PEACE!

 

 

[Boxflyer]

Hi William,

I have a fixed shipping cost when I ship tools, depending on whether it’s a WetHead or ShiftHead Kit, but with the first couple of rental Shims, I plan on refunding the shipping to entice folks to send them back. 
 

I still don’t have this all worked out and it could fall apart early in the testing period. 
 

I’d prefer to just do 4 of the 4 day Tech Sessions each year and keep track of my precious tools…I’ve never been one to borrow or loan tools since I was a KID!

 

Brad

[Scott9999]

1 hour ago, Boxflyer said:

Hi William,

I have a fixed shipping cost when I ship tools, depending on whether it’s a WetHead or ShiftHead Kit, but with the first couple of rental Shims, I plan on refunding the shipping to entice folks to send them back. 
 

I still don’t have this all worked out and it could fall apart early in the testing period. 
 

I’d prefer to just do 4 of the 4 day Tech Sessions each year and keep track of my precious tools…I’ve never been one to borrow or loan tools since I was a KID!

 

Brad

Brad, for shipping, check out pirateship.com.  USPS's priority mail fixed box might be cheapest, but I've obtained UPS labels at about a 50% discount using that broker.  Oh, and one more thing:  If I'm BORROWING a tool, and paying for shipping, I might as well buy the round trip ticket, i.e. two UPS labels.  Maybe use a lightweight pelican style case, with foam cut-outs,  that can be used for repeat shipping.  Inventory can be done almost at a glance.  Just slap the label on the box to ship outbound, and the borrower can do the same for retrograde.   Also, apply defined time limit for the loan.  Regardless of the guy's status, e.g. "I've been on business and I'm almost done", the box gets shipped back by the date on the label.  That's the deal, and everyone understands it, no excuses.  (The only variance might be if UPS delayed delivery by a week, etc.).

 

To me, the main issue is financial, i.e. deposit and refund.  A deposit is no big deal, even if it's close to the cost of the commercial tools, as long as I get my deposit back.  You making some profit on the deal for your trouble, is fine by me as well.  We're all saving a bundle on BMW service, and possibly, doing a better job as well (i.e. the pro's are working on volume, and we can spend extra time on our bikes to get it right).

 

Another option:  I'm willing to throw in with a half dozen others to "buy" the shared tools, and pass ownership to bmwst.com.  I'm not sure what you'd need to fund it, maybe $100 each?  We can figure out the proper criteria and rental approvers (i.e. we're not sending it off to someone who just joined yesterday).   If it gets ripped off, it's time to solicit donations again.   That way, all we need to worry about is round trip shipping, plus some sort of small service charge for tool usage and replacement.    This method eliminates the financial issue, and reduces the financial risk to you personally.   If this works out, and the line for using the loaner tool kit becomes overly long, we can solicit donations for a second kit (or use service charges to pay for it, whatever).

 

Just tossing out ideas.   Use 'em if they work.  If not, listen to somebody who knows something. 😏😁

[Skywagon]

I don't have any useful input...but....Brad...this is an incredible gesture on your part.  Between you and DR...others too....you guys are amazing

 

I gave several fellow aviators keys to my hangar, as did they.  I had a chalk board that said use any tool you want, but write down who and what.  I did that for at least 15 years and I never got burned.  There was a couple of times someone had my torque wrenches and I had to go borrow them back, but I knew who had them and how to get them back

 

 

Great big KUDOs to you..  Not fair I live so far away from you.

[szurszewski]

16 hours ago, Boxflyer said:

The trade off is somewhere in the middle where it’s not to onerous of a deposit that it burdens a small time user and not too small of a rental fee where the few sets that I make available are snatched up by greedy one way jerks. 

I’m in the camp that that the deposit should make you whole if the tools don’t come back (shipping with insurance for the full value would also be key). 
 

These tools are for use on not-cheap bikes, so hopefully anyone wanting to use them would be able to come up with even a large deposit as they’d be sure to get it back. 

[TSConver]

14 hours ago, Boxflyer said:

Hi William,

I have a fixed shipping cost when I ship tools, depending on whether it’s a WetHead or ShiftHead Kit, but with the first couple of rental Shims, I plan on refunding the shipping to entice folks to send them back. 
 

I still don’t have this all worked out and it could fall apart early in the testing period. 
 

I’d prefer to just do 4 of the 4 day Tech Sessions each year and keep track of my precious tools…I’ve never been one to borrow or loan tools since I was a KID!

 

Brad

 

The other option is to rent them to local groups to do a workday.  If 4 or 5 people got together for a weekend they could divide the deposit up and do a bunch of bikes in a weekend.  I know there was interest in the RTP area to do wrenching days it is just organizing it. 

 

[Boxflyer]

szurszewski said:

I’m in the camp that that the deposit should make you whole if the tools don’t come back (shipping with insurance for the full value would also be key). 

These tools are for use on not-cheap bikes, so hopefully anyone wanting to use them would be able to come up with even a large deposit as they’d be sure to get it back. 
 

 

This is also the way I was thinking. 

I’m going to try to make up 2 Kits for each generation of our bikes…2 for the 1200 WetHead and 2 for the 1250 ShiftHead, so it will be well over $2500 floating around that needs to be refreshed and calibrated so each “renter” gets a full up set for their use. 

I’m hopeful that our community will be as good as they sound online in this Forum. 
There are other forums that I DO NOT intend to extend these tools to. 
 

Thanks for the input!

Brad

[Scott9999]

@Boxflyer

 

I'll ask the dumb question (hey, someone's gotta claim that title):

What are these?  Cam alignment jigs for the R1250Rxx bikes?  (I haven't viewed video's on the 1250's, as I am not gonna have one any time soon.)

Thanks.

 

[Boxflyer]

Yes, these are the 2 piece Cam Alignment Jigs for the 1250’s starting in 2019-present. 
 

[Firedog45]

Following. The shims have been the bottleneck in the past for me (bikes other than BMW) so being able to preorder a selection in advance of opening things up is very attractive to me. My question is this: you take a deposit then ship out the kit. We place any shims removed from the bike back into the kit and ship back. You then refund the deposit less your original shipping costs? Is that how you’re envisioning the process?

That would be a convenient alternative to hoping you can source any needed shims after opening things up. 

[duckhawk64]

Fantastic idea. 

Hope it flies!! Pun intended

Thinking of ideas.

Edited November 8, 2022 by duckhawk64
OP said "Please don’t reply here that you want in on this deal." Delete my post if needed."

[Boxflyer]

2 hours ago, Firedog45 said:

Following. The shims have been the bottleneck in the past for me (bikes other than BMW) so being able to preorder a selection in advance of opening things up is very attractive to me. My question is this: you take a deposit then ship out the kit. We place any shims removed from the bike back into the kit and ship back. You then refund the deposit less your original shipping costs? Is that how you’re envisioning the process?

That would be a convenient alternative to hoping you can source any needed shims after opening things up. 

@Firedog45  I sent your tools off today, but will send you a rental set of shims when you get enough miles on your bike to do your first 12k service.

 

I got my first set of "Rental Shims" back today and it worked out OK...so I'm willing to try it again.  From here on out, I think I'm going to keep a little more "holdback" for my overhead/inventory instead of just a deposit.

This set of shims that I got back was about typical for a 12k service in that the guy had to use 3 out of the 42 shims.  All of them were different sizes and the renter included the 3 removed shims from his bike as agreed upon.

I say 42 shims because that's 2 each of 21 sizes from 2.00 thru 2.40mm, just in case you need to use the same size on 2 different valves.  In this first set, the guy used 2.28, 2.30, and 2.32mm shims, so I'll have to make them up from my inventory before sending this set out again...another reason I want each set to return home between renters.

 

@duckhawk64 Please contact me via PM to start the process and specifics about what you need and when you are ready for your rental set.  I'm going to include a set of crush washers that I expect you to use as consumables and don't expect them back.  This would be for the-- engine oil drain, 2x cam chain tensioners (1200) or O-rings (1250), TDC plug, and FD fill plug.

 

I'm not sure what I am going to charge for holdback, but maybe 20% of the deposit of $300...so I'd pay for shipping/insurance out and the renter would pay for shipping/insurance back and receive $240 back after I get the original shims and what you took out of your bike back...

 

Set #2 is already out, so I hope it comes home soon...I need to place a 30 day time limit on the use of the shims, so I know when I've lost them and have to do the unthinkable.

Thanks for your interest.

Brad

[bmw man]

u can aldo email me at sespirito58@gmail.com thx again

[Boxflyer]

I abandoned the idea of doing rental tools or shims...just too much money involved.

[TSConver]

That is too bad.

 

How much to sell a complete kit?  Maybe get a group to go in together and buy one and then share it?

[Boxflyer]

Shawn, I don't publish on the public side of any site what the pricing is for my tools.

I'm going to stop shipping tools for a couple of months starting at the beginning of the year anyway...I need a break.

 

I'll be bringing lots of 1200 and 1250 tool kits to the START in April when I bring my TechDay/Service Trailer to Elijay, GA.

 

[TSConver]

Would you care if I see if there is a group that wants to go in and purchase a set?  If you are good with that I will contact you via PM.

[Boxflyer]

Shawn, why would I want you to potentially short cut what I’m doing by producing and selling these kits. 
That would directly affect me being able to sell these. 
 

[TSConver]

No worries. That is why I asked. 

[Mellow]

I just ordered some tools from Brad.  I won't share the cost but I think it's very reasonable give you not only get the tools but free access to all the work Brad has put into his videos that help make maintenance a no-brainer.  That saves thousands in dealer service that  you have no idea how complete that service was actually done.  I'm not saying anything new here.

 

I get it though, in times like these we're all looking for discounts, but I think this is already discounted and a great value.

 

 

[duckhawk64]

True that.