Brake Bleeding and New Brake Pads

[RK Ryder]

In early May I bleed the brakes on both bikes, using DOT 4. Near the end of the month when having new tires installed on my’98R1100RT,  I had new brake pads installed, front and rear. Didn’t do much riding in May or June and everything was fine.

 

In July I took a ride, a little short of 3000 kms. After noticing the front brakes becoming very jerky or grabby at stops, I discovered no free play between the front rotors and pads. Upon arriving home, it became apparent the rear pads were dragging on the rotor.

 

So should I have put off doing the spring brake bleed until the new brake pads were installed and if so, would a brake bleed at this time rectify the situation?

 

Thanks!

 

Paul

[dirtrider]

13 minutes ago, RK Ryder said:

In early May I bleed the brakes on both bikes, using DOT 4. Near the end of the month when having new tires installed on my’98R1100RT,  I had new brake pads installed, front and rear. Didn’t do much riding in May or June and everything was fine.

 

In July I took a ride, a little short of 3000 kms. After noticing the front brakes becoming very jerky or grabby at stops, I discovered no free play between the front rotors and pads. Upon arriving home, it became apparent the rear pads were dragging on the rotor.

 

So should I have put off doing the spring brake bleed until the new brake pads were installed and if so, would a brake bleed at this time rectify the situation?

 

Thanks!

 

Paul

Morning Paul

 

Depends, your brake system is a basic hydraulic system so new pads should have no effect on the actual bleeding, or require a re-bleed.

 

But, if you filled the front brake reservoir to the top after last bleeding, THEN at a later time installed new (thicker) brake pads, it's possible that your front brake fluid reservoir could be over-full so that might be putting a little pressure on the front bake pads.

 

You might (very carefully) remove the front reservoir cover then re-adjust the brake fluid level to the proper level (be careful here, if the reservoir is over-full & under slight pressure it could blow fluid all over at cover loosening. Put old plastic garbage bags (or a small tarp)  under reservoir & cover dash & painted areas.  (Dot 4 brake fluid is a great paint remover)

 

Or,  you could open a front bleeder screw then let enough fluid out to lower the fluid level in the reservoir. 

 

A slight pad drag with new pads can be normal as long as they don't drag enough to make the rotor hot while riding (this assumes that the front brakes are not used during the test)

[Michaelr11]

The same precaution that DR mentioned applies to the rear reservoir also.  If the rear reservoir is overfilled, it could be putting pressure on the pads in back.

[RK Ryder]

Either today or tomorrow, I will bleed some fluid from both the front and rear rotors. On the trip I was constantly looking over the windshield, always slightly right of centre. I put that down to winds but coming home on the same roads, travelling in the opposite  direction, I was once again, looking over the screen, right of centre.

 

it was until i got home and rolled the bike in the garage that I noticed the rear brakes slightly engaged. The new brake pads combined with a new rotor might very well be the cause of the lean to the right.

 

Once I remove a bit of fluid from both reservoirs, I take the bike for a spin to see If the lean has been eliminated. I’ll let you know the results

[dirtrider]

55 minutes ago, RK Ryder said:

On the trip I was constantly looking over the windshield, always slightly right of centre. I put that down to winds but coming home on the same roads, travelling in the opposite  direction, I was once again, looking over the screen, right of centre.

it was until i got home and rolled the bike in the garage that I noticed the rear brakes slightly engaged. The new brake pads combined with a new rotor might very well be the cause of the lean to the right.

Afternoon RK Ryder

 

Your motorcycle is a single track vehicle (both wheels in line)  so brake drag can not effect either bike lean or bike pull to one side or the other. 

 

Your lean is something else, probably PTTR (Pull To The Right), a lot (actually most) old BMW 1100/1150 boxer bikes have PTTR due to the lateral motorcycle weight not being centered over the motorcycle's centerline.  

 

  

[RK Ryder]

47 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon RK Ryder

 

Your motorcycle is a single track vehicle (both wheels in line)  so brake drag can not effect either bike lean or bike pull to one side or the other. 

 

Your lean is something else, probably PTTR (Pull To The Right), a lot (actually most) old BMW 1100/1150 boxer bikes have PTTR due to the lateral motorcycle weight not being centered over the motorcycle's centerline.  

 

  

Darn; thought that brake pulling would be simple answer. ☹️ I’ve never had that issue in the past. I was pulling my one wheel trailer which always feels invisible back there. For the first time, I put a scooter tire on it and it ran truer than ever before. Each morning before leaving a campsite I always repack it, being careful to balance the weight evenly.

 

I do have an appoint booked at a dealer in a couple of weeks for a number of small items to be inspected; better add the right tilt to the list.

 

I rode with a new to me Sargent saddle (in mint condition). The right tilt was enough that there and back I had very sore inner right thigh, also something I had never experience with this bike or trailer with the 137,000 km I have ridden on it. 🤷‍♂️

[dirtrider]

2 hours ago, RK Ryder said:

Darn; thought that brake pulling would be simple answer. ☹️ I’ve never had that issue in the past. I was pulling my one wheel trailer which always feels invisible back there. For the first time, I put a scooter tire on it and it ran truer than ever before. Each morning before leaving a campsite I always repack it, being careful to balance the weight evenly.

 

I do have an appoint booked at a dealer in a couple of weeks for a number of small items to be inspected; better add the right tilt to the list.

 

I rode with a new to me Sargent saddle (in mint condition). The right tilt was enough that there and back I had very sore inner right thigh, also something I had never experience with this bike or trailer with the 137,000 km I have ridden on it. 🤷‍♂️

Evening  RK Ryder

 

If a brake drag could cause a single track motorcycle to lean or a pull to one side then just imagine what hard braking would do to a motorcycle with only a single front  brake rotor on just one side (think about that?) 

 

Try putting your old seat back on to see if the problem goes away. 

 

Or, if your 1100RT motorcycle doesn't have a radio then try putting about 8 to 10 pounds in the radio box (glove box). That is usually enough weight far enough left of center make them track straight.  

[RK Ryder]

2 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Evening  RK Ryder

 

If a brake drag could cause a single track motorcycle to lean or a pull to one side then just imagine what hard braking would do to a motorcycle with only a single front  brake rotor on just one side (think about that?) 

 

Try putting your old seat back on to see if the problem goes away. 

 

Or, if your 1100RT motorcycle doesn't have a radio then try putting about 8 to 10 pounds in the radio box (glove box). That is usually enough weight far enough left of center make them track straight.  

Dirt Rider,

 

Now that you mention the glove box, I did remove a few items from it before starting the trip. I will first try riding with those removed items back in the glove box. Upon returning to the garage, I’ll put the Russell seat back on the bike to see if one or both of adjustments brings the bike to riding straight. Brakes will be bled in the morning followed by a couple of rides.

 

I’ll post you the results of the bleeds and weighted glove box. 👍

[RK Ryder]

So yesterday I siphoned brake fluid from both both reservoirs to minimum levels and still the clearance between the brake pads and rotors were much too tight. Decided to not go for a ride with the braking system being somewhat less than stellar. My R1100RT will sit in the garage for a week or so until it is loaded onto the trailer for its’ delivery to the dealer on the 18th. 😖

[PAS]

After you siphoned off some fluid, did you try and push the caliper piston back inside the caliper?

[dirtrider]

4 hours ago, RK Ryder said:

So yesterday I siphoned brake fluid from both both reservoirs to minimum levels and still the clearance between the brake pads and rotors were much too tight. Decided to not go for a ride with the braking system being somewhat less than stellar. My R1100RT will sit in the garage for a week or so until it is loaded onto the trailer for its’ delivery to the dealer on the 18th. 😖

Afternoon  RK Ryder

 

Now that you let the excess fluid out you might take it for short ride just to see if the pads quit dragging due to (possibly) excess fluid.  

 

New pads can drag slightly until they are well seated & fully broken in. 

[RK Ryder]

1 hour ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon  RK Ryder

 

Now that you let the excess fluid out you might take it for short ride just to see if the pads quit dragging due to (possibly) excess fluid.  

 

New pads can drag slightly until they are well seated & fully broken in. 

I hope that they are seated now after almost a 5,000 km ride. 🙂

 

Maybe s ride tomorrow.

 

Cheers!

[King Herald]

On 8/9/2022 at 6:31 PM, dirtrider said:

Afternoon RK Ryder

 

Your motorcycle is a single track vehicle (both wheels in line)  so brake drag can not effect either bike lean or bike pull to one side or the other. 

 

Your lean is something else, probably PTTR (Pull To The Right), a lot (actually most) old BMW 1100/1150 boxer bikes have PTTR due to the lateral motorcycle weight not being centered over the motorcycle's centerline.  

 

  

 

That's good to hear, as my bike leans to the right if I let go the bars. I had always wondered if it had been damaged or bent in a crash in a previous life.

[RK Ryder]

A followup question regarding my jerky/grabby braking on my trip this summer.

 

Due to a back order of a part (not brake related), the R1100RT was finally picked up about two weeks ago. The dealer's master BMW mechanic told me that he found that the bike stopped normally when he took it out for a test ride. Apparently the EBC brake pads on the bike are thicker than the OEM and will take awhile to wear. I found the braking to still be grabby at stops, not what I have been used to in the past.

 

Earlier I mentioned that I had been on a 3000 km ride with these pads; mistake, it was 5000 kms or 3000 miles.  Are the EBCs really that much thicker than the OEM brake pads and if so, how long will they normally take to wear to where they will feel similar to the OEM pads?

 

Cheers!

 

Paul

[dirtrider]

9 minutes ago, RK Ryder said:

A followup question regarding my jerky/grabby braking on my trip this summer.

 

Due to a back order of a part (not brake related), the R1100RT was finally picked up about two weeks ago. The dealer's master BMW mechanic told me that he found that the bike stopped normally when he took it out for a test ride. Apparently the EBC brake pads on the bike are thicker than the OEM and will take awhile to wear. I found the braking to still be grabby at stops, not what I have been used to in the past.

 

Earlier I mentioned that I had been on a 3000 km ride with these pads; mistake, it was 5000 kms or 3000 miles.  Are the EBCs really that much thicker than the OEM brake pads and if so, how long will they normally take to wear to where they will feel similar to the OEM pads?

 

Cheers!

 

Paul

Afternoon Paul

 

If you have in excess of 5000 kms on those EBC pads & you are still not happy with the brake feel then you probably have the wrong brake pads for the brake feel that you want. At  5000 kms those pads are fully broken in so they are what they are.

 

If you want less aggressive brake feel  then you probably need to find a less aggressive brake pads (OEM brake pads are usually well balanced between decent braking friction, decent feel,  OK wear, not a lot of rotor wear).  

 

 

 

 

[RK Ryder]

48 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon Paul

 

If you have in excess of 5000 kms on those EBC pads & you are still not happy with the brake feel then you probably have the wrong brake pads for the brake feel that you want. At  5000 kms those pads are fully broken in so they are what they are.

 

If you want less aggressive brake feel  then you probably need to find a less aggressive brake pads (OEM brake pads are usually well balanced between decent braking friction, decent feel,  OK wear, not a lot of rotor wear).  

 

 

 

 

Thank you Dirt Rider.

 

I had been thinking that might be the case. Riding seasoning here is over so once spring arrives and if I am still not comfortable with the EBC pads, I'll make the switch to OME pads.

 

Cheers!

[9Mary7]

3 hours ago, dirtrider said:

OEM brake pads

I was surprised to find the OEM pads on my RT were FF rated 

[Michaelr11]

3 hours ago, RK Ryder said:

 

I had been thinking that might be the case. Riding seasoning here is over so once spring arrives and if I am still not comfortable with the EBC pads, I'll make the switch to OME pads.

 

Cheers!

I have been through a lot of brake pad changes on my 1100RT, 248k miles. I haven’t been that satisfied with EBC pads on the 1100RT.  OEM pads, and Carbonne Lorraine pads have been great.  The EBC were a real pain in the rear caliper because they always needed the backing plate to be filed slightly to fit the caliper properly.

[9Mary7]

16 hours ago, Michaelr11 said:

 EBC pads

I only mentioned it because I experienced total front brake overheat/loss during while following Twistyguy during F.A.R.T..... brake pad flush and replacement found stock pads FF instead of the GG's on Authority bikes. I went with the HH EBC's 'cause I've never had them overheat, even during a Cali track day.

[dirtrider]

2 hours ago, 9Mary7 said:

I only mentioned it because I experienced total front brake overheat/loss during while following Twistyguy during F.A.R.T..... brake pad flush and replacement found stock pads FF instead of the GG's on Authority bikes. I went with the HH EBC's 'cause I've never had them overheat, even during a Cali track day.

Afternoon  9Mary7

 

I'm surprised you didn't have heat related issues with using HH brake pads on the rear of your 1100RT when riding hard (the OP in this thread has an 1100RT so this thread is about 1100RT brakes). 

 

There is a BMW service bulletin to not use metallic rear brake pads on the 1100RT without a caliper update due to heat related issues with metallic pads.  

[9Mary7]

1 hour ago, dirtrider said:

not use metallic rear brake pads

My mistake, I was referring to the front pads as I always use an organic pads on the rear of my BMWs.