Dealers not servicing over 10 year old bikes??

[bimmers]

Learned today that our local dealer has corp. Order not  allowing them to service over 10 year old BMW bikes. Is this something that is general or just some of the dealers applying. It does kind of explain why they did not want my 2009 and/or 2016 in trade while they were mint both with Ab 40k miles. 
 

this of course creates an opportunity for BMW techs to go out on their own but I understand BMW is not supporting them in any way leading to bikes needing programming cannot get it anymore. 
 

and add to this that repair manuals are not sold for new bikes.

 

all of this makes one wonder where we are heading unless we want to buy new bikes and accept reduced resale values, what are the opinions and knowledge about this issue?

 

H

[dirtrider]

19 minutes ago, bimmers said:

Learned today that our local dealer has corp. Order not  allowing them to service over 10 year old BMW bikes. Is this something that is general or just some of the dealers applying. It does kind of explain why they did not want my 2009 and/or 2016 in trade while they were mint both with Ab 40k miles. 
 

this of course creates an opportunity for BMW techs to go out on their own but I understand BMW is not supporting them in any way leading to bikes needing programming cannot get it anymore. 
 

and add to this that repair manuals are not sold for new bikes.

 

all of this makes one wonder where we are heading unless we want to buy new bikes and accept reduced resale values, what are the opinions and knowledge about this issue?

 

H

Evening  bimmers

 

It's not only BMW but Harley, Honda, & most other dealers in my area.  Not necessarily a 10 year old deal but definitely an older motorcycle deal. 

 

Some will still do basic maintenance as they can get filters & have the oil but anything more is iffy.

 

A LOT of current tecs don't go back that far so they need to look everything up as they work (this adds shop time to each repair).

 

Plus, most don't stock older parts so the motorcycles sit in the way or tying up a lift until the ordered parts come in. 

 

A few dealers in my area will take on the older motorcycles as a winter project when they are slow, or in rare cases work on an older  bike for a repetitive customer that buys a new motorcycle from them every couple of years. 

 

It probably boils down to not a lot of money to be made for the dealer's time involved on those older motorcycles. 

[bimmers]

In the past it was easier when all electronics and software didn't exist. Now those have become weapons the manufacturer use and keep to themselves. Laws about releasing information and tools for independent businesses to perform "brand" specific service need to be introduced if they do not exist. I believe they have been introduced at least in some European countries with regard to cars, and it was including that it fulfills warranty requirements. 
 

so let's support independent motorcycle fixers and get them to be supported by manufacturers as well. Highlighting the value of trade schools and combine with entrepreneurship. So I guess the issue becomes hiw big the market is and how concentrated regionally so that there is enough business opportunity. Here in the south there is not the same seasonal issue as up north where snowmobiles and skis take the place of bikes in the winter..........

 

retirement opportunities for many of us, maybe.

 

h

[roadscholar]

5 hours ago, bimmers said:

Learned today that our local dealer has corp. Order not  allowing them to service over 10 year old BMW bikes. Is this something that is general or just some of the dealers applying. It does kind of explain why they did not want my 2009 and/or 2016 in trade while they were mint both with Ab 40k miles. 
 

this of course creates an opportunity for BMW techs to go out on their own but I understand BMW is not supporting them in any way leading to bikes needing programming cannot get it anymore. 
 

and add to this that repair manuals are not sold for new bikes.

 

all of this makes one wonder where we are heading unless we want to buy new bikes and accept reduced resale values, what are the opinions and knowledge about this issue?

 

H

 

Mentioned it before once the computer gen bikes are out of warranty or too old for dealers to work on values will likely plummet. Then oilheads (remember them : ) will be sought after because indy's and DIY's can service/keep them running.

[MichiganBob]

It's hard for me to wrap-around the idea that a 10 year old bike is an old bike. Maybe a car but in my mind 25 plus years is an old bike. However, I could understand how changes in technology could be overwhelming for a service department.  The differences between my 02, 12 and 18 RT are  staggering  Compared to the difference in my 71,81 and 90.

[Skywagon]

Motorcycle techs/shops aren't the only one.  At my boat dealer they have posted on the front door before you come in, we don't work on engines older than 2014.  Not sure why that year, but that is their cutoff.  Many marine engines come with 7 year warranties.  So theoretically if you bought a new engine in 2014 + 7 years warranty.....they would only service/repair it for one year out of warranty.  Mine is a 2016 so I figure a couple more years and I need to refresh.

[Hosstage]

Luckily for those of us with Harleys there is a large aftermarket of parts and independent shops to keep the old ones on the road. But as mentioned, the dealers don't work on bikes that are 10 years old in general.

[Scott9999]

Who wants to buy an expensive European bike, when it's value will drop like a stone year by year, because when it has reached 10 years old, the value constructively drops to zero, because of BMW's non-service and non-support corporate policies?     I've never really worried in the past about parts for a motorcycle, OR service.  Suzuki's started doing the "we don't make parts for 10 year old bikes" thingy about 1990, if I recall.  And maybe that was 15 years, I can't recall, but I know that it made me swear never to buy another Suzuki dirt bike.

 

Manufacturers and dealers can do whatever the heck they want, and we can tell them to go to hell.  Who do you think wins that tug of war, the consumers, or the manufacturers and dealers?   I'd bet on those who provide the cash to the manufacturers and dealers win.  They need us more than we need them.

 

And, at any rate, BMW won't be shipping bikes OR parts soon, because (a) Germany has "Green new deal'd" themselves into a no-energy corner, and (b) BMW has decided to go all electric, and I don't believe consumers will buy that trash until the technology as a WHOLE lot more mature.   Get vehicles and motorcycles to the point where you can ride up to a service station, pop out a set of batteries and replace them with charges ones, like changing out batteries on your Mikata power tools, and you MIGHT start seeing general adoption.  (Well, there's also the problem that the electricity to do all that chargin' is still coming 95% from reliable fossil fuels, and short of Nuclear power plants popping up on every street corner, it's gonna be that way for the next 100 years, but we won't go there.)

 

BMW is making all the moves necessary to expeditiously run themselves out of business.  I suppose that the upside is that they aren't doing so alone.🙄😖

[roadscholar]

2 hours ago, Scott9999 said:

BMW is making all the moves necessary to expeditiously run themselves out of business.  I suppose that the upside is that they aren't doing so alone.🙄😖

 

Maybe, altho the more recent flip side seems to be high end manufacturers don’t want their products lasting forever anymore. They aren’t in the vintage/heritage business and don’t want to compete with themselves for customers, only sell more new bikes and cars. Sad but that appears what it’s come to.

[bimmers]

So the German green deal just accepted nuclear again........... they are debating NOT to close their last three units this year, but it's too little too late.

On cars I have faced the issue having a 11 year old BMW diesel, on marine not yet but my stuff is newer, except my torqeedo electric kicker, not needing service.

if I recall right car manufacturers in the US are required to supply parts for 10 years after that it's a gamble on how popular the vehicle became.

Life expectancy on new stuff in general maybe shorter than before so now we just have to amortize it all at a faster pace aka computers, phones, tvs, and now bikes.......

so fortunately I have a local independent here for the bike and otherwise I guess I have to wrench it myself but in this case it is the servo assisted brakes that need service so didn't want to get into it as they work but need flushing and may have slight leak in one of the calipers..

 

thanks for sharing my misery 

 

enjoy safe riding on soon to be historic / vintage bikes.

H

[RTinNC]

WOW ... I agree that a 10 year old bike IMHP is not "old".  So I guess they simply want everyone to buy a new bike every 10 years or less.   That can really be a stretch for a lot of folks.   In addition what about the guy who can only afford a used bike and buy a 6 or 7 year old BMW.  Does that mean he only has a few years of getting it serviced?   I guess this is what they call progress.  Ugh!    I also suspect that may be why bikes like the Yamaha Tenere 700 that are low tech and simple to run are so popular.  And with something like 26K valve checks!   My oldest bike is a 2016 RT so guess I will need to decide in year or so what the future of it is for me.   Unfortunately I am not aware any independent shops close to Charlotte. 

[Scott9999]

3 hours ago, RTinNC said:

My oldest bike is a 2016 RT so guess I will need to decide in year or so what the future of it is for me.   Unfortunately I am not aware any independent shops close to Charlotte. 

Yep, and I'm glad I bought the 2018 versus an earlier model Wethead.   I'll also be holding this less than three years, due to BMW's policy.  Though I'm hooked on Beemers, I'll be looking at serious alternatives, for a bunch of reasons.   (I really just don't like BMW as a company anymore, or respect it.  They aren't alone, i.e. I'm pretty down on most Corporations.  I used to swear by Ford, we've had a bunch of Ford's with good experiences, but that loyalty is gone now, too.)

 

I guess beyond the riding experience, I'll be looking to buy from a company I can believe in, that doesn't take me for a fool, openly defraud me, or take their customers for granted.  Sounds silly, but I'm just tired of all the B.S. in this world.

[9Mary7]

3 hours ago, Scott9999 said:

that doesn't take me for a fool, openly defraud me, or take their customers for granted. 

Sounds like you're ready for ..............Ducati.

[MikeB60]

I was down at our local dealer today scheduling the service campaign for the GS.  Asked the service manager if there was a order from corporate regarding service work on older bikes.  He said they had no guidance from corporate regarding working on older bikes.  

 

As far as parts go, Max BMW built a R90s from the parts catalog.  Current BMW parts online offerings still go back through the airhead line. 

 

The service manager did say that their power sports division won't work on Japanese bikes more than 10 years old because they have issues getting parts.  

 

Not sure the sky is falling yet as DR stated the have been dealers who wont work on older models for years. 

[RTinNC]

1 minute ago, MikeB60 said:

I was down at our local dealer today scheduling the service campaign for the GS.  Asked the service manager if there was a order from corporate regarding service work on older bikes.  He said they had no guidance from corporate regarding working on older bikes.  

 

As far as parts go, Max BMW built a R90s from the parts catalog.  Current BMW parts online offerings still go back through the airhead line. 

 

The service manager did say that their power sports division won't work on Japanese bikes more than 10 years old because they have issues getting parts.  

 

Not sure the sky is falling yet as DR stated the have been dealers who wont work on older models for years. 

Well that is certainly more optimistic news.  I have heard for years that Japanese dealers won't work on older bike ... and I thought I had heard 7 years.  And I did also hear that Harley dealers will no longer work on Twin Cam bikes.   I will check with my dealer as well.   Is Max your dealer?   They just bought the entire parts inventory from Blue Moon in Atlanta. 

[MikeB60]

My local dealer is in Columbus GA. They've only been around since March. 

[Dave_in_TX]

On 8/4/2022 at 4:13 PM, bimmers said:

Learned today that our local dealer has corp. Order not  allowing them to service over 10 year old BMW bikes. Is this something that is general or just some of the dealers applying. It does kind of explain why they did not want my 2009 and/or 2016 in trade while they were mint both with Ab 40k miles. 
 

this of course creates an opportunity for BMW techs to go out on their own but I understand BMW is not supporting them in any way leading to bikes needing programming cannot get it anymore. 
 

and add to this that repair manuals are not sold for new bikes.

 

all of this makes one wonder where we are heading unless we want to buy new bikes and accept reduced resale values, what are the opinions and knowledge about this issue?

 

H

There are many Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Yamaha dealers who will not service motorcycles more than 10 years old.. 

[Scott9999]

3 hours ago, RTinNC said:

Well that is certainly more optimistic news.  I have heard for years that Japanese dealers won't work on older bike ... and I thought I had heard 7 years.  And I did also hear that Harley dealers will no longer work on Twin Cam bikes.   I will check with my dealer as well.   Is Max your dealer?   They just bought the entire parts inventory from Blue Moon in Atlanta. 

Used to be 20 years for Yamaha, and I'm not even sure how I know that, other than the 20 year old trials bike I was riding at the time started being impossible to maintain.   Maybe a dealership told me, or maybe it was just gossip.  It was one of the reason I stuck with Yamaha's, with I was riding dirt.

[LBump]

On 8/5/2022 at 7:29 AM, RTinNC said:

WOW ... I agree that a 10 year old bike IMHP is not "old".  So I guess they simply want everyone to buy a new bike every 10 years or less.   That can really be a stretch for a lot of folks.   In addition what about the guy who can only afford a used bike and buy a 6 or 7 year old BMW.  Does that mean he only has a few years of getting it serviced?   I guess this is what they call progress.  Ugh!    I also suspect that may be why bikes like the Yamaha Tenere 700 that are low tech and simple to run are so popular.  And with something like 26K valve checks!   My oldest bike is a 2016 RT so guess I will need to decide in year or so what the future of it is for me.   Unfortunately I am not aware any independent shops close to Charlotte. 

 

Independent Shops

 

 

[fourteenfour]

17 hours ago, RTinNC said:

Well that is certainly more optimistic news.  I have heard for years that Japanese dealers won't work on older bike ... and I thought I had heard 7 years.  And I did also hear that Harley dealers will no longer work on Twin Cam bikes.   I will check with my dealer as well.   Is Max your dealer?   They just bought the entire parts inventory from Blue Moon in Atlanta. 

 

I wonder if that means John is finally retiring from the business. The BMW portion was sold off in 15 and they did pick up Zero a few years back. Visiting Blue Moon was always like stepping back time. So many amazing bikes.

[RTinNC]

The article I got from Max BMW indicated that John at Bluemoon was going to focus on buying and selling bikes

 

Yeah back in the day blue moon was a great stop to see all the cool finishage bikes

[Bernie]

It's not just bike dealers, my brother was refused service at a central Florida Ford dealer with his F250 that had more then 150,000 miles on it.

They told him that they don't work on trucks with that many miles.

While my dealer has no problem working on my F550 with 353,000+ mile truck.

It is upper management that makes this decisions.

[RTinNC]

11 hours ago, Bernie said:

It's not just bike dealers, my brother was refused service at a central Florida Ford dealer with his F250 that had more then 150,000 miles on it.

They told him that they don't work on trucks with that many miles.

While my dealer has no problem working on my F550 with 353,000+ mile truck.

It is upper management that makes this decisions.

For Ford dealers I am sure it is dealer specific as before I sold my '99 Ford Explorer with 253,000 miles on it to the Ford Service Manager they always serviced whatever it needed.  Let's hope this is the same situation with BMW motorcycles that it is dealer specific. 

[duckbubbles]

My local dealer in Austin, Texas makes the rule at 15 years the last I heard.  They made a one time exception for my '03 R1100S BCR because I have been a customer for over 35 years and the bike was special to them.

 

Frank

 

[Gooner]

Similar post over on one of the Ducati forums a few weeks back.  Guy had bought a 2000's Multi, had ECM/EFI issues that weren't readily apparent at purchase, nearest dealer would not touch it.  Based upon his description it was in my area.  That contributed to me moving on my ST3.

[TEWKS]

13 hours ago, Bernie said:

 

While my dealer has no problem working on my F550 with 353,000+ mile truck.

Bernie, it’s apparent that you don’t stay in one place for very long!  That’s some serious mileage! 

[RadioFlyer]

Too bad that the big clubs like BMWMOA won't at least seriously convey the concerns of owners about the discontinuance of service information to BMW and get the other member clubs in BMW Clubs International to do the same. It essentially works in reverse. The member clubs have agreed to be publicity agents for BMW. 

[Bernie]

2 hours ago, TEWKS said:

Bernie, it’s apparent that you don’t stay in one place for very long!  That’s some serious mileage! 

Not really Pat, the truck is 21+ years old and the last few years I have actually rode more miles on my RT and drove my work truck.

 

[TEWKS]

Ok, a work truck.  I was thinking either that or maybe a camper.  

[Red]

On 8/4/2022 at 10:58 PM, roadscholar said:

 

Maybe, altho the more recent flip side seems to be high end manufacturers don’t want their products lasting forever anymore. They aren’t in the vintage/heritage business and don’t want to compete with themselves for customers, only sell more new bikes and cars. Sad but that appears what it’s come to.

A long lasting product with a forever promise of parts is what used to sell BMW's ten/twenty years ago.  Without that, they're just another brand in a long list of competent motorcycle producers.  

[Red]

On 8/5/2022 at 6:45 PM, Scott9999 said:

Used to be 20 years for Yamaha, and I'm not even sure how I know that, other than the 20 year old trials bike I was riding at the time started being impossible to maintain.   Maybe a dealership told me, or maybe it was just gossip.  It was one of the reason I stuck with Yamaha's, with I was riding dirt.

My wife bought an 82 XJ750 Maxim new.  What you were told was what we were told from the dealer at the 20 year mark.  Bike only had 17 K on it at 20 years.  Plastic gear in the speedo broke.  Could we get a new one?  Nope.  Sold it to a guy who didn't care if speedo was accurate or working.  IMO all makers of products should give purchasers something in writing AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE on what what date they will/may not support that model for parts and service.

[Hosstage]

Ask Victory motorcycle owners how that went.

[JamesW]

This really does kind of suk!  In my case there is nowhere to go for service on my 29 year old BMW at all since Hansen's BMW / Ducati burned two years ago.  I mean NO place!  So, I'm on my own and the same is true of my FJR at least at the local Yamaha dealer but at least there are other Yamaha dealers not too far away if I needed help on something I can't handle.  I was told that this is the last year for FJR production but that Yamaha will support their motorcycles for 10 years after production ends on specific models.  The local dealer did at least tell me that since they are a Yamaha dealer if I ever needed service they would have to provide it but that they have never had an FJR in their shop.  So, when it comes to my bikes I'm pretty much on my own.  I can live with that I think.  At any rate the world won't come to an end if my BMW never runs again and at my age my bikes don't have to last much longer anyway just how it is. lol..lol..  

 

Also, there is no way in he** I would ever and I do mean ever lower myself to buy one of these high tech gizmo loaded and expensive to maintain motorcycles BMW produces not ever!  I would sooner walk first!  Same thing applies to their cars.  Oh for a brand new 1956 Ford Crown Vic with a low tech thunderbird V8 with two tone red and white and matching interior.  Why a '56 you may ask.  Because that was the first year with 12 volt electrics.

[RTinNC]

14 minutes ago, JamesW said:

This really does kind of suk!  In my case there is nowhere to go for service on my 29 year old BMW at all since Hansen's BMW / Ducati burned two years ago.  I mean NO place!  So, I'm on my own and the same is true of my FJR at least at the local Yamaha dealer but at least there are other Yamaha dealers not too far away if I needed help on something I can't handle.  I was told that this is the last year for FJR production but that Yamaha will support their motorcycles for 10 years after production ends on specific models.  The local dealer did at least tell me that since they are a Yamaha dealer if I ever needed service they would have to provide it but that they have never had an FJR in their shop.  So, when it comes to my bikes I'm pretty much on my own.  I can live with that I think.  At any rate the world won't come to an end if my BMW never runs again and at my age my bikes don't have to last much longer anyway just how it is. lol..lol..  

 

Also, there is no way in he** I would ever and I do mean ever lower myself to buy one of these high tech gizmo loaded and expensive to maintain motorcycles BMW produces not ever!  I would sooner walk first!  Same thing applies to their cars.  Oh for a brand new 1956 Ford Crown Vic with a low tech thunderbird V8 with two tone red and white and matching interior.  Why a '56 you may ask.  Because that was the first year with 12 volt electrics.

I love my BMWs .... the '16 RT and the '18 GS but like you I am not liking where they are headed.   Not a fan of the latest RT with phone only navigation, not GPS cradle and all the new technology.  I am consider the RS for my replacement to my RT and I really like the Yamaha Tenere 700 for possible replacing of my GS.   That being said I am very happy with my local BMW dealer that is 9 miles from my house and no decent Yamaha dealer for at least 100 miles.   I have rarely had good service from a metric dealer (Yamaha, Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki ).   For now all is well but certainly not sure what the future holds. 

[Calvin (no socks)]

I have worked at the SAME imported auto dealership for the last 43 years. From Carburetor to EV I have done them all. Had a regular customer in the shop the other day with 560k on an "04 wagon....Admittedly I would probably not jump on something of that vintage driving in off the street.

Also, Technology has out paced the average shops... Even some dealers can't keep up...good Techs leaving for better industries. 

[JamesW]

5 hours ago, Calvin (no socks) said:

I have worked at the SAME imported auto dealership for the last 43 years. From Carburetor to EV I have done them all. Had a regular customer in the shop the other day with 560k on an "04 wagon....Admittedly I would probably not jump on something of that vintage driving in off the street.

Also, Technology has out paced the average shops... Even some dealers can't keep up...good Techs leaving for better industries. 

 

That is sad but true.  Good techs are becoming hard to find for a lot of things.

[RTinNC]

9 minutes ago, JamesW said:

 

That is sad but true.  Good techs are becoming hard to find for a lot of things.

Absolutely ... and that is part of the reason labor rates are so dang high.  My dealer has some great techs,  pays them very well and they stick around.   The same Master Tech has been working on my bikes now for probably 10 years.   But every time they have an opening it is a struggle. 

[JamesW]

You are fortunate to have a good BMW dealer close by.  In my case I'm out of luck completely.  If I had an airhead I would be better off as there is an airhead orientated independent shop in Eugene 60 miles from me.  I'm just lucky the Yamaha is known for reliability but it isn't as easy to work on as the R1100RSL.  I just can't wait for the 26K miles valve clearance check.  Maybe I'll get lucky and all16 will be in spec.  Could happen.  Oh what the heck it keeps me off the street.

 

The BMW dealer in Southern Oregon I have known since '75.  Craig Hansen started his dealership in '72 and he wrote the book when it comes to BMW. He lost his business to a wildfire a couple years ago.  He has opened a small shop recently but he is giving up his BMW franchise.  I was traveling around Oregon/Washington on my new R75/7 when she started running not so great and I stopped in at Craig's store.  Craig stopped what he was doing and in a couple hours had my bike running to perfection.  I latter bought a new K75C from him also a great bike.  Guys like him are becoming really rare at least in these parts which is really sad when you think about it.

 

I kind of miss those Bing carburetors.

[RTinNC]

Funny I was just reading Matt Parkhouse’s monthly piece in the MOA Owners News and thought if only I had an airhead service would be easier as there are more independents working on them.  But then I really prefer the dependability of the newer bike and 12k valve checks.

 

  But the same seems to be happening with cars where owning one for numerous years risks some expensive computer repair that only the dealer can do.  We truly seem to be living in a disposable society.

[Rougarou]

19 hours ago, JamesW said:

Also, there is no way in he** I would ever and I do mean ever lower myself to buy one of these high tech gizmo loaded and expensive to maintain motorcycles BMW produces not ever! 

 

Ummmm, on the '06, I change the oil decently regularly.  I change the final drive and tranny oil about every two tire changes.  Spark plugs, meh, the last set went about 60k.  She's at 145k now.

 

On the '19 GSA, I change the oil at some point after the dummy light pops on.  At 25k, I still haven't change the final drive oil or transmission oil, but it'll be done soon.  I have replaced spark plugs.

 

Expensive to maintain, nah, not at all.  I doubt even if I actually followed the recommendations from the owners manual that it would be "expensive" since I do all my own work,....just bits & pieces would cost, my self-labor is overhead.

 

If I run into an issue that I can't solve or is time dependent, ya, it'll cost me at the dealer, but the reliability of these two bikes outweigh that slight, ever so slight concern.

[RTinNC]

2 hours ago, Rougarou said:

 

Ummmm, on the '06, I change the oil decently regularly.  I change the final drive and tranny oil about every two tire changes.  Spark plugs, meh, the last set went about 60k.  She's at 145k now.

 

On the '19 GSA, I change the oil at some point after the dummy light pops on.  At 25k, I still haven't change the final drive oil or transmission oil, but it'll be done soon.  I have replaced spark plugs.

 

Expensive to maintain, nah, not at all.  I doubt even if I actually followed the recommendations from the owners manual that it would be "expensive" since I do all my own work,....just bits & pieces would cost, my self-labor is overhead.

 

If I run into an issue that I can't solve or is time dependent, ya, it'll cost me at the dealer, but the reliability of these two bikes outweigh that slight, ever so slight concern.

So far I have to agree as ALL of my BMW's have been dead reliable.  I am pretty anal about service and stick to the recommended or even more often for oil & final drive. 

 

When you change the transmission oil let me know how that goes since there is no separate gearbox on the wetheads 

[Rougarou]

1 hour ago, RTinNC said:

 

When you change the transmission oil let me know how that goes since there is no separate gearbox on the wetheads 

 

Well, that oughta tell you how much I pay attention to the manuals eh 

[beemerboy]

On 8/4/2022 at 3:13 PM, bimmers said:

Learned today that our local dealer has corp. Order not  allowing them to service over 10 year old BMW bikes. Is this something that is general or just some of the dealers applying. It does kind of explain why they did not want my 2009 and/or 2016 in trade while they were mint both with Ab 40k miles............. 
 

 

 

H

A little over a month ago BMW of Denver gladly took my 2006 K1200S on trade for a 2016 K1300S. Many others here have chimed in with their experiences but from my perspective it's more about the dealer and not an edict from the Fatherland. 

[AviP]

My Ram 1500 is 15 years old with 130K miles. It is parked outside and as such there is a ridiculous amount of underbody rust. The painted body parts are all perfect but the chassis and suspension components are all rust welded and require serious work. So I don't blame dealers for not wanting to work on this crap. I just hope it runs another year until the CyberTruck is out.

[RTinNC]

21 minutes ago, AviP said:

My Ram 1500 is 15 years old with 130K miles. It is parked outside and as such there is a ridiculous amount of underbody rust. The painted body parts are all perfect but the chassis and suspension components are all rust welded and require serious work. So I don't blame dealers for not wanting to work on this crap. I just hope it runs another year until the CyberTruck is out.

And THAT is why I refuse to move to a location that gets snow and as a result salt and brine crap coating the roads.   A year and a half ago I sold my '99 Explorer with 253K on it and it had ZERO rust on top or bottom.   The underside looked perfect with no rust at all.  Oh .... and to the day I sold it I had it serviced by my local Ford dealer.  Heck it was the Ford Service Manager who bought it :-)    I feel for guys living in the rust zones.   Happy I  don't have to deal with that any more. 

[Hosstage]

1 hour ago, RTinNC said:

And THAT is why I refuse to move to a location that gets snow and as a result salt and brine crap coating the roads.   A year and a half ago I sold my '99 Explorer with 253K on it and it had ZERO rust on top or bottom.   The underside looked perfect with no rust at all.  Oh .... and to the day I sold it I had it serviced by my local Ford dealer.  Heck it was the Ford Service Manager who bought it :-)    I feel for guys living in the rust zones.   Happy I  don't have to deal with that any more. 

But we don't have poisonous snakes or spiders. Even they don't want to live here.

[RTinNC]

30 minutes ago, Hosstage said:

But we don't have poisonous snakes or spiders. Even they don't want to live here.

LOL ... My buddy in Maine tells me the same about the snakes.  But so far (27 years)  no issues.  But then I ask him how he's doing when they have a foot of snow and are getting more. 

[AviP]

The snow does not bother me. In fact, I think the North East might be the ideal location from a climate perspective. I'm talking environmental factors such as water levels, temperature, air quality, hurricanes, fire, etc.

 

As to the rust, my 10 year old Subaru is on a far different level from a rust perspective. It has 180K miles and any bolt or nut can be opened without a problem. I think American steel (or wherever it comes from) is of very poor quality.

[RTinNC]

Snow does not bother me ... it's what they do to manage it that bugs the crap out of me.   Charlotte has 4 seasons and we get some cold stuff .... a week or 2 in the 20's and frequently in the 30's.  And we get an occasional snow that last a day or 3 at most ... the way it should be.   But we get long springs and falls.  Yes ... summer is hot and humid but this year the northeast was getting that same stuff.   We just don't get extremes.   AND ... when it gets too hot the mountains are just 90 minutes away :-) and all the great roads of NC/VA/TN/KY.     I lived my first 40 years in NJ and as I tell folks it's a great place to be from ... and I don't mean that in a totally negative way ... NJ was a great place to grow up.   Lots to offer and a very diverse culture.  But I am very happy now to be in North Carolina.  Oh ... as we ride all year round :-) 

 

I am happy to hear that your Subie is doing well as we have a '21 Outback that I love and already have 50K on it !! 

[Hosstage]

I've had more than one car that got sold once my wife gets wet when driving thru a puddle. A couple I expected, a couple surprised me they were that far gone. I tend to run them as long as possible, not worth much by the time I'm done with them. But they do run good. I even got $300 from the junkyard for my 20 year old truck just because it had good exhaust and ran like a dream, but had cracked the frame from rust and was damn near in half when I drove it in.

Dealer didn't work on that one anymore......