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Never Too Old to Learn Better Ways to Navigate Curves


MichiganBob

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MichiganBob

I've been riding since 1968 and a little embarrassed to share this but what the heck. I'm not sure why I started doing something different when I go into curves. I started this new thing towards the end of last year's riding season and have continued to perfect it this year with great results. It's counter-intuitive. Instead of leaning into the curve. I lean away from it while counter steering with the handle bars. Nicely carved, smooth, controlled turns. It feels great. So simple.

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Why do you think the results of this technique are "great"? I can only envision a bike that is leaned over further, running closer to the edge of the tread, with reduced ground clearance and less ability to tighten your line. 

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20 hours ago, MichiganBob said:

I'm really not totally clear why leaning away from the curve is working so well. But it is.

You are more comfortable sitting upright. The problem that Ikraus alluded to is that the bike is leaned over farther than necessary to complete a given turn at a given speed. When we lean the bike our weight, (specifically its location high side or low side) dictates how much lean angle is required. By forcing the bike over you may feel more comfortable but you WILL run out of clearance way sooner than you should. This is fine (and encouraged)for low speed maneuvers but can end badly at road speeds.(Mid corner obstacles or a turn that tightens suddenly)

Moving our weight around is an important control technique for motorcyclists...... this is why road racers hang off the low side of the bike in turns as the MC will corner faster with less lean angle by moving weight to the inside. Riding quickly down a favorite curvy backroad while counterweighting to the high side is not safe.

Maybe a bit of practice in medium speed turns in an open parking lot would make you more comfortable leaning with your bike.

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It sounds like you are discussing a dirt/off road technique for turning. On pavement the technique is to lean with the bike plus a bit of extra body lean towards the inside of the turn.

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Again, for low speed maneuvers in traffic it is beneficial to stay neutral or counter lean. Medium to high speed curves you should be leaning with the bike.

The article you posted is wrong on one key point, road racers deliberately weight the outside peg as they add power to exit a corner as this technique does give them more control of any resultant power slide. (the article says they spread their outside leg???) what ever that means. Watch a WSBK race and you can see that they pick the bike up off of the edge of the tire as they add power and weight to the outside peg.

 

Dirt techniques require dramatic counter-lean to keep the tires underneath the rider due to the lower traction available(compared to pavement)

 

Pavement example: This is my son at California Speedway, infield horseshoe turn 5. The turn could not be negotiated at 70ish mph while counter leaning. 

IMG_0155.JPG

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MichiganBob

Great photo of your son 9Mary7.

 

Thanks for the interesting feedback folks. Surely, my curve work now that I'm in my mid-70"s is a lot different and more cautious that it was

over the last 50 plus years of riding. After what folks said, I took the bike out today and discovered that I am not really leaning the bike counter to the curve. Rather, my upper body is going counter, the handlebars are counter, but my trunk is neutral. The counter turning of the handlebars is keeping the bike leaning into the curve. It's the upper body tilting away that forever reason gives me a feeling of more control.

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19 minutes ago, MichiganBob said:

my upper body is going counter

 

That makes perfect sense......we are more comfortable without a tilted horizon.    FWIW I don't lean over as far as I used to either!!

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1 hour ago, MichiganBob said:

Great photo of your son 9Mary7.

 

Thanks for the interesting feedback folks. Surely, my curve work now that I'm in my mid-70"s is a lot different and more cautious that it was

over the last 50 plus years of riding. After what folks said, I took the bike out today and discovered that I am not really leaning the bike counter to the curve. Rather, my upper body is going counter, the handlebars are counter, but my trunk is neutral. The counter turning of the handlebars is keeping the bike leaning into the curve. It's the upper body tilting away that forever reason gives me a feeling of more control.

Evening Bob

 

That upper body leaning away is a form of cross-control. What that does is gives the motorcycle MORE lean-in than it naturally wants to do by itself. Typically that just means that you are riding a bit slower than the motorcycle likes  for the curve. The faster that you ride in the more lean the motorcycle will naturally like & it will then feel  like you don't have to fight it to stay leaned over. 

 

Nothing wrong with using cross--control as most of  us off-roaders use cross-control when riding off-road in a lot of situations.  

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MichiganBob

Good Evening to You.

 

It's interesting to think about the horizon as a guide in riding. When I was working on balance exercises after an injury, the PT had me standing on one foot with my eyes closed. It was so much easier to do it with my eyes open. I was told that this was because we can make many more micro adjustments to our balancing attempt when we have the horizon as our guide. 

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15 hours ago, 9Mary7 said:

Again, for low speed maneuvers in traffic it is beneficial to stay neutral or counter lean. Medium to high speed curves you should be leaning with the bike.

The article you posted is wrong on one key point, road racers deliberately weight the outside peg as they add power to exit a corner as this technique does give them more control of any resultant power slide. (the article says they spread their outside leg???) what ever that means. Watch a WSBK race and you can see that they pick the bike up off of the edge of the tire as they add power and weight to the outside peg.

 

Dirt techniques require dramatic counter-lean to keep the tires underneath the rider due to the lower traction available(compared to pavement)

 

Pavement example: This is my son at California Speedway, infield horseshoe turn 5. The turn could not be negotiated at 70ish mph while counter leaning. 

IMG_0155.JPG

That looks right to me.

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