ethanol free gas

[Jharpphoto]

Is it safe or desirable to use ethanol free gas in my 2013 RT.  Are there any benefits? I use 93 octane as recommended but I'm curious about using the ethanol free in my bike.

[wbw6cos]

How long does the gas sit between fill-ups?

[Jharpphoto]

1 week to go through a tank on average

[wbw6cos]

As long as it gets ridden, it should be fine with ethanol in the mix.  I keep non-ethanol gas in my car due to the fact it can sit for several weeks, or more,  before I drive it.  Most of the non-ethanol gas sold around me is usually 87 octane.  My RT has anti-knock sensors, so running lower grade fuel is not a problem.  I cannot say anything about the '13 models. 

 

For my bikes, I run mid-grade fuel and they get ridden in a weekly rotational basis, so no worries about the ethanol issues.  I have yet to notice any differences between the 2 gasolines, but there sure are others on this forum that have better knowledge on benefits, if any.

 

I know @Lowndes runs non-ethanol in his bikes as often as he can.

[MikeB60]

I use 90 octane ethanol free in the 1600 and 1250.  Same cost as premium and the bikes get a little better fuel mileage. They call it "marine fuel".

[MichiganBob]

Everything I heard is to avoid ethanol if you can. Some say it can harm orings and seals. Most Marathon stations do not use ethanol, at least the ones near me. Sometimes a few pennies more but worth it. 

[9Mary7]

My 2011 Camhead loves non-ethanol.... about 2 mpg better when cruising too!!

[Skywagon]

Ethanol gas is crap gas. Get non-ethanol whenever you can. It will not hurt your bike.  Your engine, hoses, and gas tank will thank you. 

[MichiganBob]

And I use premium non-ethanol in small engines ... mowers, powerwasher, chainsaw, etc.

[Jharpphoto]

ALL gas in my area has ethanol with the exception of a few stations that sell no ethanol gas.  I've run "regular" gas with ethanol in my 4runner for 15 years with no issues what so ever.

[Lowndes]

For some real world testing of ethanol vs nonethanol gasoline, try this:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEf9Fdvx_Sc

 

This guy buys all of his materials and tools to test, not paid or supported by anyone.  He has a bunch of tests and comparisons on youtube.

 

Anytime an engine sits for a few days at a time, the ethanol will separate from the gasoline and cause problems.  Also, the ethanol will corrode aluminum alloy (float bowls, carburators, TB's, etc).  I use it in the lawnmower, edgers, blowers etc.  Prevents A LOT of problems.  Also, the bikes that sit for days or weeks at a time.

 

If you use it quickly in a car or bike its not so bad.  Driving around sloshes it keeping it stirred up, too.  Letting it sit causes the most problems.

[Hosstage]

I also run non oxy fuel in my bikes. For sure it gets used in my boat, small engines. For the boat and small engines I treat the fuel with Seafoam right away when I buy it, the cans sit in the garage or shed for months at a time often, I find it seems to do the job. Seafoam was invented for marine motors as they sit long term often.

If I must run ethanol in the bike, I don't worry too much about it, but fill with non ethanol next chance I get. And I run premium no matter the type.

As an aside, friend has a Honda VTX 1300. Switched from 91-93 octane to regular 87 octane and it ran better and got better mileage.

[Jharpphoto]

What I'm hearing is that non ethanol gas is superior. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Hosstage]

I think in general it is. But my example above with the VTX was with ethanol fuel, 10%. What does your manual recommend for octane? A motor built for 87 octane will not make more horsepower with 91 octane. And as my example showed, can sometimes hinder performance. Conversely, a motor recommended to run on higher octane normally doesn't like lower octane, or if it can be run with it, will cut power, change timing to prevent damage.

Now, I have seen e85 used for race motors, or high performance street motors making big power. It can be squeezed tighter, more fuel dumped in to make horsepower as it runs cooler. But fuel mileage goes down significantly, and they are not usually stored with fuel long term.

Got off on a little tangent there, but, use the octane recommended in your manual, and if you can find it in non ethanol form, that would be preferred.

[MichiganBob]

Interesting Youtube Lowndes. Thanks. I  only used premium for a few decades But my 2018 RT called mid octane which I've been doing and I can't tell any difference

[Jharpphoto]

My manual calls for 93 octane, which I have run exclusively.  I'm not even sure what the octane rating is on the ethanol free gas available in my area. Will check into that.

[Hosstage]

I've seen both premium (91-93 octane) and regular fuel offered as non-oxy, but the regular (87 octane) is much more rare around here.

[Lowndes]

14 hours ago, MichiganBob said:

Interesting Youtube Lowndes. Thanks. I  We're in premium for a few decades But my 2018 RT called mid octane  Which I've been doing and I can't tell any difference

 

There won't be any appreciable difference in performance between ethanol gas and non-ethanol while you are riding and using it for about the first year.  It's the long term effects that the ethanol mix has on any hardware like the fuel hoses in the tank.  I was reading an article about restoring an old bike with a fiberglass tank and the the fiberglass had failed because the ethanol had attacked the resins in the "fiberglass" (but gasoline itself does not).  We don't have to worry about that.  Also, the newer machines are designed (mostly, we hope) for ethanol.  My old bikes (2000 era )were designed and built before the 2005 mandate.

 

I'm not trying to convince anyone to use non-E gas.  I use it frequently while out riding because it will be used in a matter of hours and not sit in the bike for a week or two.  If there is any significant part of a tank of ethanol gas left in it when I get home and fill it with non-E, I'll add a squirt of Stabil or StarTron to the tank.  I do use only non-E in the lawnmower, 5 chainsaws, 3 blowers, two weed wackers and one edger.  You only get one season out of any small 2-stroke or four stroke pumper-carb with ethanol gas.  Then you have to rebuild the carb or replace it.  I still use an Echo PB-1010 blower that I bought in the early 80's when we bought this house.   "An ounce of prevention...."

 

I am fully qualified to attest to the statement, "Any gas is better than no gas."!!  https://www.bmwsporttouring.com/topic/101613-anybody-go-for-ride-today-got-pictures/?do=findComment&comment=1109129

 

Here's another Project Farm on fuel.  The "ethanol damage" is a given: 

 

 

[dirtrider]

Morning__

 

I don't understand. Why would anyone buy a modern motorcycle (especially an expensive one)  that can't use or run correctly using E-10 gasoline?

 

Now I can easily understand not storing (especially long term storing)  any fuel burning vehicle with alcohol containing fuel in it but for everyday or regular riding if E-10 is harmful to it then (personally) I sure wouldn't buy that motorcycle as there are a very large number of other motorcycles that run just fine on E-10 for the life of the vehicle. 

 

 

[9Mary7]

I agree that storage is the main issue with E-10.

Like most I run the recommended octane always and non-ethanol when stored for long periods. The small engined yard equipment always gets non-ethanol 'cause I don't like rebuilding those small carbs.....

[Hosstage]

1 hour ago, dirtrider said:

Morning__

 

I don't understand. Why would anyone buy a modern motorcycle (especially an expensive one)  that can't use or run correctly using E-10 gasoline?

 

Now I can easily understand not storing (especially long term storing)  any fuel burning vehicle with alcohol containing fuel in it but for everyday or regular riding if E-10 is harmful to it then (personally) I sure wouldn't buy that motorcycle as there are a very large number of other motorcycles that run just fine on E-10 for the life of the vehicle. 

 

 

Agreed. Running e10 isn't an issue, not for me anyway, I don't worry about it short term.

[6speedTi]

Here is what they are saying about E10 across the pond.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/advice/e10-vs-e5-petrol-fuel-cost-calculator-jubilee-weekend-2022/

[Red]

In addition to being hydroscopic, I always knew corn gas was less efficient.  This put some numbers on it.  Thanks

[Scott9999]

Hmmm, well, i don't know ethanol from drain cleaner.  All I do is apply a little logic, to get my answer.

 

Question:  Is ethanol fuel government mandated?

Answer:  Yes

 

Conclusion   Ethanol fuel is crap, just like everything else the government mandates.  👎😒

 

 

Another corollary to that logic process:

Question:  Who benefits?

Answer:  No one, other than some government $lobbying$ group.

 

Conclusion:  Then it's crap gas for sure.  🙄🤬

[TSConver]

Ethanol fuel is actually really good if you are running a turbo or super charger. Many prefer e85 as it naturally provides a cooler air charge and allows significant more timing allowing for more horsepower.  So it is not always bad.

[Dave_in_TX]

On 5/26/2022 at 10:10 PM, Skywagon said:

Ethanol gas is crap gas. Get non-ethanol whenever you can. It will not hurt your bike.  Your engine, hoses, and gas tank will thank you. 

I ran ethanol gas in my 2014 R1200GS for over 100k miles without problems. Also ran it for lots of miles in my 2011 RT without problems. My 2020 GS with 67k miles with mostly ethanol gas hasn't had problems either.

[6speedTi]

The problem is we assume we are pumping 10% ethanol. The decals on the pumps that I see say up to 10% ethanol. Ethanol amounts may vary from time to time based on supply.  You may be at a fuel station that regularly has 10% or at one that will vary from 0% to 10%. We don't know how much Ethanol we are pumping unless you measure it. We also might be pumping 15% without knowing.  

[Scott9999]

3 hours ago, Dave_in_TX said:

I ran ethanol gas in my 2014 R1200GS for over 100k miles without problems. Also ran it for lots of miles in my 2011 RT without problems. My 2020 GS with 67k miles with mostly ethanol gas hasn't had problems either.

Lol, I guess I don't feel lucky.

 

I've never felt lucky.

 

I'm the guy who always gets stuck.  My motorcycles will be completely reliable and great investments, AFTER they're no longer  my motorcycles.

 

I'm definitely a "half full" kinda BMW owner.  Name 15 things that most routinely go wrong with a Wethead, and I'll add them to my "to do" list, i.e. might as well get it over with, they'll ALL be on my to do list before I relinquish my exquisite bike. 

 

I'll stick with ethanol free, unless I'm sure that I'll be draining the tank on a ride.  (Well, or, unless e-## is all that's available, 'cause as bad as I feel about e-gas, I feel worse about walking.  Much worse.  Juz sayin' ....)

[lkchris]

Manufacturers have compensated for ethanol fuel for decades now.  That means modern components are not hurt by it.

 

Now that tetraethyl lead and MTBE are banned, ethanol is the octane enhancer of choice.

 

It's not clear to me how high octane gasoline is formulated these days without using ethanol.  In any event, you want high octane fuel.

 

Any way,  if you want to learn about all there is about fuel, see this YouTube.  Warning it's VERY long and drawn out and you may be extremely surprised who the expert is.

 

 

[Dave_in_TX]

On 5/30/2022 at 11:36 PM, Scott9999 said:

Lol, I guess I don't feel lucky.

 

I've never felt lucky.

 

I'm the guy who always gets stuck.  My motorcycles will be completely reliable and great investments, AFTER they're no longer  my motorcycles.

 

I'm definitely a "half full" kinda BMW owner.  Name 15 things that most routinely go wrong with a Wethead, and I'll add them to my "to do" list, i.e. might as well get it over with, they'll ALL be on my to do list before I relinquish my exquisite bike. 

 

I'll stick with ethanol free, unless I'm sure that I'll be draining the tank on a ride.  (Well, or, unless e-## is all that's available, 'cause as bad as I feel about e-gas, I feel worse about walking.  Much worse.  Juz sayin' ....)

Ethanol free is impossible to find where I live and I rarely see it anywhere I ride. If I need to let the bike sit for any length of time (a rare occurrence), I'll add some fuel stabilizer.

[Skywagon]

Dave in Tx....almost all of the Buckees in the Houston area have non-ethanol. The closest Buckees to me is at least 20 miles so hardly worth the effort. I do burn ethanol gas in the bike, because it's what is generally available.  The issue with ethanol is letting it sit as you know.

I keep my boat in Port Aransas.  It can sit a month or longer in the winter and in the summer as much as 2 weeks.  I burn ethanol free gas in it as it is locally available.....although it is about a buck a gallon higher.  Not sure where in Austin you are.  This was a quick Google.  My Godson lives in Pflugerville. I visit him often. 

 

[Hosstage]

I assume most marinas use non ethanol gas? I know they do here.

[bruce2000ltc]

This is starting to sound like an oil or tire thread.

[dirtrider]

9 hours ago, Hosstage said:

I assume most marinas use non ethanol gas? I know they do here.

Morning   Hosstage

 

Most marinas around my area also carry non-ethanol gasoline or RV gasoline but most only carry 89 or 90 octane  not 92 or 93 octane.  Still good for winter storage  but on the low side if your BMW requires higher octane. 

[Doctor T]

Here in the UK we have E5 and E10 petrol for years. No other petrol is avalible. The same talks happened back then when we went lead free fuel. Older vehicles had to get the valve seat toughened or use a octane booster. When ethanol started to become avalible most manufactures had already sorted out their engines to run on it safetly.

Ive only had one problem with fuel and that is when i didnt use the mower for a year. Any fuel will go off sat that long. Clean fuel and started on 3rd pull.

 

In the UK monthly car and bike mags it can go for months without a mention about E5 or E10 fuel and the its usauly from owners of older 50,60,70, vehicles that bring up the subject.

With ethanol fuels they is many false and incorrect tales of how this "CRAP" destroyed their engines. My complaint with E fuel is am not getting a full gallon of petrol. Am paying for is a gallon minus 5% or 10% of which is ethanol

[RocketJohn]

I cannot find ethanol free premium in Colorado.  I use ethanol free regular for my 1973 Honda CL350 and it keeps those carbs from getting varnished and gunked over the winter.  I've seen 91 Ethanol free in Oregon's interior.  Very rare in the Western USA, from what I've seen.

[Bob_1978]

For those looking to find non-ethanol gas, there is a mobile app called Pure Gas which tracks availability.  If concerned about storage issues with e-gas, I use Stabil Marine formula which is designed to address ethanol issues, as opposed to the regular Stabil.

[dirtrider]

17 minutes ago, Bob_1978 said:

For those looking to find non-ethanol gas, there is a mobile app called Pure Gas which tracks availability.  If concerned about storage issues with e-gas, I use Stabil Marine formula which is designed to address ethanol issues, as opposed to the regular Stabil.

Afternoon Bob 

 

That Pure Gas web site used to be fairly accurate but it is kept current using customer input so some gas stations have figured out how to scam the Pure Gas site by posting their own (incorrect or mis-leading info) as well as getting others to do the same. 

 

Then you have customers that wouldn't know gasoline from water posting that it is alcohol free just because they THINK so, or didn't see an alcohol sign on the pump, or are just mis-informed. 

 

There are 4 gas stations in my area that are on the Pure Gas site but only 1 actually has alcohol free gasoline (but it is only 90 octane). 

 

[rol1]

N

[Paul De]

I recently moved to a region of my state with lots of boats and other recreational vehicles so all the stations around me sell only ethanol free 92 octane, E10 and maybe E15 regular.  I would say that that my RT's run a bit better on the ethanol free premium gas, but not remarkably so.  My trusty old boy '99 R1100RT lived most of it life on a diet of E10 Premium and had no ill effects,  Winter storage was a fresh load of Seafoam laced E10 Premium followed by the first spring fill up of Techron laced E10 premium and after 22 year that old boy still runs great with no fueling issues.  Not sure if it as  needed now, but even with the bikes now living on ethanol free premium gas I still do the Seafom laced tank load for winter storage and a spring load of gas with Techron.  Why mess with success, right?

 

As a side note until the gasoline supply crunch one of the gas stations in my town was selling ethanol free regular which ran  great in the boat and lawnmower motors, and it saved a several cents per gallon over the premium gas.  Sadly, this year these pumps were converted to E15 which is only able to be run in my wife's SUV. because all my stuff is either too old or not designed to handle E15.

[super rat]

I avoid the corn gas whenever possible.

[dirtrider]

2 hours ago, Paul De said:

I recently moved to a region of my state with lots of boats and other recreational vehicles so all the stations around me sell only ethanol free 92 octane, E10 and maybe E15 regular.  I would say that that my RT's run a bit better on the ethanol free premium gas, but not remarkably so.  My trusty old boy '99 R1100RT lived most of it life on a diet of E10 Premium and had no ill effects,  Winter storage was a fresh load of Seafoam laced E10 Premium followed by the first spring fill up of Techron laced E10 premium and after 22 year that old boy still runs great with no fueling issues.  Not sure if it as  needed now, but even with the bikes now living on ethanol free premium gas I still do the Seafom laced tank load for winter storage and a spring load of gas with Techron.  Why mess with success, right?

 

As a side note until the gasoline supply crunch one of the gas stations in my town was selling ethanol free regular which ran  great in the boat and lawnmower motors, and it saved a several cents per gallon over the premium gas.  Sadly, this year these pumps were converted to E15 which is only able to be run in my wife's SUV. because all my stuff is either too old or not designed to handle E15.

Afternoon Paul

 

There are a number of marinas in my area but not all sell ethanol free, the ones that do mostly sell 90 octane. I would love to find 92 octane ethanol free. 

 

I have a station just a couple of miles from me that sells 90 octane ethanol free RV gasoline (as of yesterday it was $6.30 per gallon.  (cost me $40.00 to fill a single 6.5 gallon container)

[Paul De]

 

4 hours ago, dirtrider said:

I would love to find 92 octane ethanol free. 

 

Err-um excuse me.  I just was at a local station today....91 Octane for ethanol free premium.

 

Noticed something odd.  While ethanol free premium is still about $5.60/gal yesterday E10 Regular dropped 15 cents per gallon to $4.78/gal.  Don't know why that happened on that particular grade but nothing else.  No tax holiday here that I know of.

[Rougarou]

If I listen to all the gibberish here, my '06rt would be dead right now.  I use gas, high octane, low octane, whatever is available.  I only use non-ethanol in my little engines and then turn off the cock and drain the fuel from the itty bitty carbs.

 

In 2015, my bike sat for nearly three months with, ohmigosh, ethanol gas in it, got home, cranked the bike and rode off.  My recent two month excursion, both the GSA and RT sat.  I got home, and rode the bikes.

 

If'n I listen to many of you (even on overall maintenance rec's/spec), that RT shouldn't be pushing 155k and the GSA should start dying right about now with 25k.

 

Some of you's are overly paranoid.

 

[taylor1]

Wait a minute Richard , are you saying that the sky ain’t fallin ? 😎

[MichiganBob]

Just did a blast to Lima  from Kalamazoo for Flat Track races and added a few more miles each way. Stopped at four Marathon Gas Stations and all were ethanol free. Just a head's up for those in pursuit of real gasoline.

[Toter]

On 5/30/2022 at 12:44 PM, Red said:

In addition to being hydroscopic, I always knew corn gas was less efficient.  This put some numbers on it.  Thanks

I believe the proper term is hygroscopic. My 14 GS gets Premium with ethanol as the ethanol free choices are only mid-grade here. With 12.5:1 compression, I believe that the octane of premium grade fuel is most important, since the 1200 wetheads do not have knock sensors.

[Red]

Toter, thanks for the correction.  Somehow I conflated hydro and scopic to mean holding water.  In Oregon only premium grade gas is available.  Makes you wonder the rationale behind each different decision.

[Dave_in_TX]

On 7/1/2022 at 12:16 PM, Toter said:

I believe the proper term is hygroscopic. My 14 GS gets Premium with ethanol as the ethanol free choices are only mid-grade here. With 12.5:1 compression, I believe that the octane of premium grade fuel is most important, since the 1200 wetheads do not have knock sensors.

Back a couple years ago when a hurricane had damaged some of the oil refineries, mid grade and premium became difficult to find. Since there were reports on advrider of LC owners using 87 octane without problems, I tried using 87. I had no problems and continued to use it in my 2014 R1200GS for tens of thousands of miles without problems.

[Toter]

Glad it has worked for you. From my experience with engine building, I am not comfortable doing that. The small savings doesn't justify the risk to me.