fix it list and 2002 bmw 1150

[Newbiebmw2021]

good afternoon dr. i did a test on the injectors to clean them. they spray great. next test coming up 

 

[Newbiebmw2021]

hello dr,

here is a update, bike runs way better. idles likes champ now after cleaning them

it has a high end bog once in a while but that could be the oil in the air box again that has accumulated. gonna take it for a long ride on a bit. wil come back to the big after the oil issue is resolved. 

 

next issue is the amount of oil going into the air box. not sure if it needs rings, guess a leak down test would be appropriate. 

[Newbiebmw2021]

update from 80 miles riding it. it runs great. doesn’t stall and the power band is good. i think she is fixed other then the oil consumption and the horn bro working. 

 

update. 

after 200 miles it stalled on me. Is it possible that the fuel filter is dirty and it plugged the injectors again. 

 

 

[Newbiebmw2021]

Update after i rode  200 miles

it rode awesome till i got back home. i put gas in it about 10 miles before and it stalled on me twice. 

could it be a dirty fuel filter. or something else. could the fuel filter cause the injectors to get dirty?

[dirtrider]

12 hours ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

hello dr,

here is a update, bike runs way better. idles likes champ now after cleaning them

it has a high end bog once in a while but that could be the oil in the air box again that has accumulated. gonna take it for a long ride on a bit. wil come back to the big after the oil issue is resolved. 

 

next issue is the amount of oil going into the air box. not sure if it needs rings, guess a leak down test would be appropriate. 

Morning  Newbiebmw2021

 

It never hurts to run a leak-down test but that might not tell you much unless you have excessive ring blow-by. 

 

Any chance that your air filter is plugged, maybe try riding it a bit with the air filter removed to see if that helps. If the air filter (or air intake) is restricted that can allow the engine intake vacuum to suck oil out of the vent system into the lower air box.

 

How much oil is in your crankcase? Is it over-full, or is it possible the oil is getting diluted with raw gasoline? 

[dirtrider]

9 hours ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

update from 80 miles riding it. it runs great. doesn’t stall and the power band is good. i think she is fixed other then the oil consumption and the horn bro working. 

 

update. 

after 200 miles it stalled on me. Is it possible that the fuel filter is dirty and it plugged the injectors again. 

 

 

Morning  Newbiebmw2021

 

That is very slightly possible but usually if the fuel filter is plugged enough to do that then you will not have any engine power or be able to get the motorcycle up to a reasonable speed without difficulty.  

 

Or put another way__ A plugging fuel filter will usually show up first at higher engine power requirements & not show up at idle until the engine will not pull under load. (it takes WAY more fuel flow to run down the road at 60 mph or accelerate than it takes to idle at 1100 rpms. 

[dirtrider]

5 hours ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

Update after i rode  200 miles

it rode awesome till i got back home. i put gas in it about 10 miles before and it stalled on me twice. 

could it be a dirty fuel filter. or something else. could the fuel filter cause the injectors to get dirty?

Morning  Newbiebmw2021

 

How did it run at higher speeds & run under acceleration? A dirty filter or dirty injectors usually show up first at higher engine loads than at idle. 

Do your spark plugs show any signs of oil fouling?????

[Newbiebmw2021]

7 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Morning  Newbiebmw2021

 

It never hurts to run a leak-down test but that might not tell you much unless you have excessive ring blow-by. 

 

Any chance that your air filter is plugged, maybe try riding it a bit with the air filter removed to see if that helps. If the air filter (or air intake) is restricted that can allow the engine intake vacuum to suck oil out of the vent system into the lower air box.

 

How much oil is in your crankcase? Is it over-full, or is it possible the oil is getting diluted with raw gasoline? 

morning de. i will pull the air filter next and see if it’s clogged or anything. 

 

It ran good - at the end of the ride i had a few bogs at high let rpms but for the first 150 miles it was good after leaning the injectors. 

 

Also, do

you think the rust in the tank could be causing issues. Should i pull the tank and fix that or no?

[Newbiebmw2021]

this is what was in the air box after 200 mile ride. smells like there is gas in it also. 

[Newbiebmw2021]

here is the air filter.. i’m gonna run it without one and see how it goes. i will report back after my little ride. 

[dirtrider]

46 minutes ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

morning de. i will pull the air filter next and see if it’s clogged or anything. 

 

It ran good - at the end of the ride i had a few bogs at high let rpms but for the first 150 miles it was good after leaning the injectors. 

 

Also, do

you think the rust in the tank could be causing issues. Should i pull the tank and fix that or no?

Afternoon Newbiebmw2021

 

Yes gasoline in the gas tank can cause big issues so you definitely should address that. 

[dirtrider]

19 minutes ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

this is what was in the air box after 200 mile ride. smells like there is gas in it also. 

 

 

Afternoon Newbiebmw2021

 

Is your oil level in the crankcase going down by the same amount that you are getting out of the air box?  

 

Have we ever fully figured out what engine that motorcycle has in it?  If I remember correctly it was assembled from different motorcycles. 

 

If by some chance that motorcycle has a very early 1100 RS engine in it then those take a special oil separator on the rear of the engine.   

[Newbiebmw2021]

it’s a 1150r motor. 

 

Yes it’s equally going down from the sight glass into the air box. 

 

report from 100 miles ridden today. it stalled a few times on my and bogged down under high rpm’s. 

im gonna pull the tank and look at the rust issue and order a new air filter and fuel filter see if that helps the situation. 

will check the air box when i get home to see if it was less oil consumption since i pulled the air filter 

[Newbiebmw2021]

here is a update will everything apart. fuel filter is loaded with rust particles. this is probably why it would run like shit. look at attached pics of rust in tank.  

[dirtrider]

11 hours ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

here is a update will everything apart. fuel filter is loaded with rust particles. this is probably why it would run like shit. look at attached pics of rust in tank.  

 

 

 

 

Morning Newbiebmw2021

 

That isn't good, to get long-term rust free you are either going to need a good rust-free used fuel tank, or work on your tank to remove the rust & flaking coating, then kill the embedded rust with a rust killer, then re-treat the inside of the tank with an alcohol resistant fuel tank liner product (like Red Coat, or similar) .

 

I'm not sure if they still do it in the modern plastic tank age but in my area local radiator shops used to remove internal fuel tank rust then re-coat the tank insides. 

 

If the old (metal fuel tank days) I would add old nuts & bolts, small rocks, etc to the inside of a rusty fuel tank along with a rust killer chemical then bungee the fuel tank to my tractor wheel & let the rust killer & bolts/nuts do their thing as I used the tractor. 

 

I also tried using electrolysis to electrically transfer the rust from the tank insides to reaction rod inside the tank filled with a lye mixture but that didn't seem to be able to fully remove the rust from the tank seams & internal corners. (but it did do a good job on the large exposed inside open areas). 

[Newbiebmw2021]

morning dr, Agreed i will need to work at getting this rust out. I am gonna try muriatic acid. I will give that a try and then go from there. 

[dirtrider]

4 hours ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

morning dr, Agreed i will need to work at getting this rust out. I am gonna try muriatic acid. I will give that a try and then go from there. 

Evening Newbiebmw2021

 

Personally I'm not a big fan of using Hydrochloric or Muriatic Acid to clean the rust from fuel tanks, it will generally remove the rust but leaves other issues to deal with. It is also corrosive tools & power equipment that is close enough to get hit by the acid vapors.  

 

If you use Hydrochloric or Muriatic Acid & your tank has some thin spots due to the internal rust (like seams or soldered in tubes then the caustic acid could leave you with a  leaking fuel tank. 

 

If you do choose to use Hydrochloric or Muriatic Acid be sure to thoroughly neutralize it then after COMPLETLY dry inside hit the inside of the tank with a rust killer (not a remover). You want to kill, then convert, the hidden rust that the acid couldn't remove. 

 

 

[Newbiebmw2021]

Do you think vinegar and baking soda, then a rust killer, after that. I was gonna block of the bottom with a plastic cap and leave in for a few days. Using the acid might not be the best idea to try first

[Newbiebmw2021]

can i use vinager and put the pump thing back in or should i use a plate i make for it. 

[dirtrider]

11 hours ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

Do you think vinegar and baking soda, then a rust killer, after that. I was gonna block of the bottom with a plastic cap and leave in for a few days. Using the acid might not be the best idea to try first

Morning Newbiebmw2021

 

Vinegar will not do much of anything. 

 

You don't want to run any of the rust removers through your fuel pump as those can damage it.

 

The Muriatic/Hydrochloric acid will actually remove rust but it is harmful to the metal (steel) that lies under the rust & also difficult to work with.

 

Personally I have usually used  Phosphoric Acid products as those actually convert the rust into an oxide coating plus it doesn't harm paint or attack other metals. But Phosphoric Acid doesn't remove heavy rust by itself.   

 

With the  Phosphoric Acid products I typically used that in conjunction with the nuts & bolts, rocks etc to break the rust loose then what wasn't actually removed with the nuts & bolts, rocks etc was converted to an oxide coating that made a good base for tank coating products like Red Coat or Kreem. 

 

I have also used  (at times) the electrolysis method to actually transfer the rust from the tank inner surface to the anode plate. THEN treated the tank insides with a Phosphoric Acid  product to convert what the electroless process couldn't get to (like seams & corners). This is somewhat time consuming but to me (personally) was the least harmful to the thin fuel tank metal & did a decent job. 

 

Google__  (electrolytic rust removal)   and   (electrolytic rust removal chemistry)  pretty simple process but a bit finicky to do (properly) inside a fuel tank. 

[9Mary7]

https://www.harborfreight.com/1-gallon-evapo-rust-rust-remover-96431.html?_br_psugg_q=rust+remover

 

I just used two gallons of this to completely clean a rusty tank. Cleaned the fuel pump as well.........

[Newbiebmw2021]

8 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Morning Newbiebmw2021

 

Vinegar will not do much of anything. 

 

You don't want to run any of the rust removers through your fuel pump as those can damage it.

 

The Muriatic/Hydrochloric acid will actually remove rust but it is harmful to the metal (steel) that lies under the rust & also difficult to work with.

 

Personally I have usually used  Phosphoric Acid products as those actually convert the rust into an oxide coating plus it doesn't harm paint or attack other metals. But Phosphoric Acid doesn't remove heavy rust by itself.   

 

With the  Phosphoric Acid products I typically used that in conjunction with the nuts & bolts, rocks etc to break the rust loose then what wasn't actually removed with the nuts & bolts, rocks etc was converted to an oxide coating that made a good base for tank coating products like Red Coat or Kreem. 

 

I have also used  (at times) the electrolysis method to actually transfer the rust from the tank inner surface to the anode plate. THEN treated the tank insides with a Phosphoric Acid  product to convert what the electroless process couldn't get to (like seams & corners). This is somewhat time consuming but to me (personally) was the least harmful to the thin fuel tank metal & did a decent job. 

 

Google__  (electrolytic rust removal)   and   (electrolytic rust removal chemistry)  pretty simple process but a bit finicky to do (properly) inside a fuel tank. 

morning dr. is phosphoric acid hard to work with. i will look into both approaches. thank you 

[Newbiebmw2021]

7 hours ago, 9Mary7 said:

https://www.harborfreight.com/1-gallon-evapo-rust-rust-remover-96431.html?_br_psugg_q=rust+remover

 

I just used two gallons of this to completely clean a rusty tank. Cleaned the fuel pump as well.........

i will check this out. 

[dirtrider]

10 minutes ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

morning dr. is phosphoric acid hard to work with. i will look into both approaches. thank you 

Afternoon  Newbiebmw2021

 

I wouldn't drink it but for most usages it is pretty safe, most rust remover products contain Phosphoric Acid and/or Oxalic acid.

[Newbiebmw2021]

hey dr: I happen to have a bunch of distilled vinager so i am gonna try it. can i let that hit the fuel pump and the plate or should i cap off that fuel plate area wirh a cover. i was gonna try filling the whole tank up and let it sit for a few days 

[dirtrider]

6 hours ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

hey dr: I happen to have a bunch of distilled vinager so i am gonna try it. can i let that hit the fuel pump and the plate or should i cap off that fuel plate area wirh a cover. i was gonna try filling the whole tank up and let it sit for a few days 

Morning Newbiebmw2021

 

I don't think that vinegar will do much to remove your rust but personally I wouldn't immerse the fuel pump or fuel filter  in it for very long (remove the pump from the pass-through plate. 

[Newbiebmw2021]

good evening dr, you were correct the vinager didn’t do much of anything. I drained all of it and washed it out with water and baking soda. 

 

i have a big 3.5 gallon jug of evapo rust coming. i will try that when it gets here. I also ordered a new screen, fuel filler for when i put it back together. This bike has become quite the project but it’s been fun and i have learned a lot. 

Tank is awaiting evap rust. will let you know what happens next. 

[Newbiebmw2021]

Update: rust is mostly all out but the tank liner was left inside the tank flaking off still. Do evapo rust did a great job removing the rust but i still have the liner to get off so i am gonna do what dr suggested and put nuts and bolts in the tank and shake it and hopefully it will clean up. not to sure what to do if this doesn’t work. 

acetone would work but if i get that on the paint it’s gonna mess it up. 

[Hosstage]

I've heard of people putting the nuts and bolts in the tank, wrap it in a thick blanket, and throw it in the clothes dryer for a tumble cycle. (No chemicals in the tank, just the nuts and bolts.)

Do this when the wife is not home.

[dirtrider]

4 hours ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

Update: rust is mostly all out but the tank liner was left inside the tank flaking off still. Do evapo rust did a great job removing the rust but i still have the liner to get off so i am gonna do what dr suggested and put nuts and bolts in the tank and shake it and hopefully it will clean up. not to sure what to do if this doesn’t work. 

acetone would work but if i get that on the paint it’s gonna mess it up. 

Morning  Newbiebmw2021

 

Add some other small irregular objects (like small rocks or sand-free gravel to the mix), the nuts & bolts will do a decent job on the main part of tank interior panels but you will probably need some smaller pointed objects to fully get into the seams & corners.

 

Your shaking idea will work but it will take an awful lot of shaking for a long time to get all that factory tank liner completely dislodged &  removed.    

 

I usually just wrap the tank in some foam carpet padding then bungee to my tractor wheel as that continuous rotation forward, backward, & rotational  will eventually do a pretty nice job. 

[Newbiebmw2021]

Morning guys. i’m gonna run the dryer and put the tank on top of it and see how it does. this motorcycle  is getting pretty funny.. 😂

[Miguel!]

3 hours ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

i’m gonna run the dryer and put the tank on top of it

You mean in It, eh? My dryer runs at about 60 RPM. Miguel

[Newbiebmw2021]

shaking the tank around with rocks in it in’s not getting everything clean. only the pieces that are loose. should i just leave the liner parts that are not coming off. i am thinking i’m gonna try the acetone. 

[dirtrider]

13 minutes ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

shaking the tank around with rocks in it in’s not getting everything clean. only the pieces that are loose. should i just leave the liner parts that are not coming off. i am thinking i’m gonna try the acetone. 

Evening  Newbiebmw2021

 

Some do just re-coat over the pieces that are still stuck inside. Personally I don't like to do that as if those remaining pieces release later it could compromise the new coating.

 

 Acetone might or might not work but it will probably ruin your paint if you gat any on the painted tank. MEK might be better at removing the remaining lining but that stuff is bad news to work with & is damaging to any paint that it  comes in contact with.

 

You might try calling the customer service number of the re-liner  product you plan to use as they might have some better suggestions. 

 

 

 

 

[Newbiebmw2021]

update : acetone didn’t resolve the paint liner. i tried a test piece sand it’s been in over a hr and nothing. man i really don’t want to use muractic acid or mek.. i am gonna do some research and give customer service a call. 

[Newbiebmw2021]

If i were to use muriatic acid i wouldn’t know how to cap off the fuel pump area and also the gas cap. it would eat both rubber seals so to use it the only way would be to put a small amount in and roll it around every 2 mins. 

 

I have reached out to red kote liner to see what they recommend. 

[Newbiebmw2021]

Ok i was told to try urathane paint remover from por 15 customer support. . I was also informed that muractic acid will not work.

[Newbiebmw2021]

good evening guys. 

here is a update on this bike. 

put tank back together with new fuel filter and sock filter. got rust out of tank and coated the tank with oil. Got it running and took it for a ride. idled good but under heavy load it bogs. it did that before l. maybe something else is up. i’m gonna run the rest of this fuel tank of gas thru it and i will report back once i put some miles on her. 

 

[dirtrider]

5 hours ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

good evening guys. 

here is a update on this bike. 

put tank back together with new fuel filter and sock filter. got rust out of tank and coated the tank with oil. Got it running and took it for a ride. idled good but under heavy load it bogs. it did that before l. maybe something else is up. i’m gonna run the rest of this fuel tank of gas thru it and i will report back once i put some miles on her. 

 

Morning jeremy 

 

If the bogging doesn't go away then re-run the return-hose fuel flow test to verify enough fuel flow at enough pressure.  

[Newbiebmw2021]

Good morning dr. to do this test i take the return hose off and push the pin down then turn it over and a small stream of gas should come out. how do i know what hose is the return one? 

 

Is it the one with a pin coming from the tank?

[dirtrider]

21 minutes ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

Good morning dr. to do this test i take the return hose off and push the pin down then turn it over and a small stream of gas should come out. how do i know what hose is the return one? 

 

Is it the one with a pin coming from the tank?

Afternoon  jeremy

 

It is the TOP hose,  you want to test on the top hose coming from the rear. 

 

With your engine bogging down after riding a bit you might be better off adding a length of additional hose on the rear upper hose (to extend it's length) then running that extended hose to a catch container (like a 1 gallon milk jug or water jug). That way you can test with the engine actually running for a period of time. You need to see about a pencil sized stream of fuel coming out of the return hose.  

[Newbiebmw2021]

Ok, would i pull the quick disconnect off or order a extra one to connect the hose to extend  it?

 

also, just a side note the fuel light comes on randomly when it has gas. probably just need to replace it. 

[Newbiebmw2021]

good afternoon dr. here is the test. it was a steady stream. what’s next?

 

[dirtrider]

Quote

good afternoon dr. here is the test. it was a steady stream. what’s next?

 Afternoon  jeremy

 

That's definitely enough return fuel to run it without bogging.

 

That engine doesn't sound quite right but my small speaker doesn't give me enough audible info to tell you much.

 

Do both front exhaust pipes get to about the same temperature after a 20 second run from cold start?  (careful to not burn your hands & fingers)

 

 

 

[Newbiebmw2021]

I will check this later today. Would a temp gun be helpful here?

[dirtrider]

10 minutes ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

I will check this later today. Would a temp gun be helpful here?

 Afternoon  jeremy

 

Probably, but you don't need to be that exact.  

[Newbiebmw2021]

Ok, I will let you know when I get home. 

[Newbiebmw2021]

good evening dr. i did the test and the right exhaust header (if i was sitting on bike) didn’t get as hot as the left one. it was 1/2 as warm. 

 

what does this mean? 

[dirtrider]

6 hours ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

good evening dr. i did the test and the right exhaust header (if i was sitting on bike) didn’t get as hot as the left one. it was 1/2 as warm. 

 

what does this mean? 

Morning jeremy 

 

That usually means the R/H cylinder is not fully firing. 

 

Check that your R/H side  throttle cable is fully seated DOWN IN the R/H side throttle body cable adjuster & not sitting on top of the adjuster. (make sure the R/H side cable isn't holding the throttle slightly open on that side at idle)

 

If that is OK then maybe check the throttle side to side balance. 

 

You might have to check the compression if you don't find anything in the above. 

 

Could even be something like a plugged fuel injector inlet screen or fuel injector issue. 

 

Also, make sure that side spark plug isn't oil fouled. 

 

 

[Newbiebmw2021]

morning dr,

 

We did compression tests awhile ago and they were both good. 145 if i remember correctly. 

 

I just cleaned the injector off the bike. 

 

I will check the throttle adjuster and the spark plug next. 

 

Not to sure how to balance the throttle bodies.