fix it list and 2002 bmw 1150

[Newbiebmw2021]

which one is 6

[dirtrider]

35 minutes ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

which one is 6

Evening Newbiebmw2021

 

6th fuse in from the shifter side of the motorcycle.

[Newbiebmw2021]

ok just did the tests. all the fuses are good and i tried it with the o2 sensor disconnected and nothing. not even a hiccup of it trying to start. 

normally if i try to start it i smell had but nothing right now. 

[dirtrider]

5 minutes ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

ok just did the tests. all the fuses are good and i tried it with the o2 sensor disconnected and nothing. not even a hiccup of it trying to start. 

normally if i try to start it i smell had but nothing right now. 

Evening Newbiebmw2021

 

OK, I'm about to sign off for tonight as I have a commitment (I won't be back until tomorrow) 

 

So one thing you can quickly try is to swap the fuel pump relay with the horn relay. (possibly that shorted o2 pigtail fried your fuel pump relay).

 

The horn relay is the  3rd relay  in from the shifter side in the front row, the horn relay is the  4th relay  in from the shifter side in the front row. (just swap them then see if it will start)

[Newbiebmw2021]

ok sounds good. thank you.have a great night 

[Newbiebmw2021]

I tried swapping relays. nothing changed

 

ok sounds good. thank you.have a great night 

[dirtrider]

6 hours ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

I tried swapping relays. nothing changed

 

ok sounds good. thank you.have a great night 

Morning  Newbiebmw2021

 

OK that eliminates the easy things__

 

So no we need to get serious.

 

Lets go back over what was done & when it quit running?

 

It did run until you installed that exhaust with new o2 sensor, correct? 

 

It then ran until you rode it a little, correct?

 

THEN it wouldn't start & run, correct?

 

You then found the o2 sensor pigtail  burnt on catalytic converter & shorted between wires, correct? 

 

Here is where I am unsure-- 

 

I believe I had you disconnect the o2 sensor & it THEN started & ran  (I need to know the answer to this) 

 

Then you repaired the o2 sensor pigtail the plugged it back in & now it won't start again (Is this correct???) 

 

I had you unplug the repaired o2 sensor & it still won't start , correct?  (I need the answer to this also).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Newbiebmw2021]

good morning ,

it ran with the o2 sensor connected or not connected. I replaced the o2 sensor cause we thought it could be bad. 

after i replaced it we then put the original exhaust back on and i routed the o2 sensor wrong and when the wires burnt it stopped the bike from running along with that noise it started making from the relay. (that buzzing) because the wires shorted. 

 

it always ran with or without the o2 sensor connected. 

 

[dirtrider]

10 minutes ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

good morning ,

it ran with the o2 sensor connected or not connected. I replaced the o2 sensor cause we thought it could be bad. 

after i replaced it we then put the original exhaust back on and i routed the o2 sensor wrong and when the wires burnt it stopped the bike from running along with that noise it started making from the relay. (that buzzing) because the wires shorted. 

 

it always ran with or without the o2 sensor connected. 

 

Afternoon  Newbiebmw2021

 

I'm missing something with this. 

 

I know it WOULDN'T run with shorted o2 sensor & relays buzzing  but did it run with the new o2 sensor before the wires shorted? 

 

I had you unplug the burnt wire o2 sensor & I thought you messaged me that it THEN ran with the burnt o2 sensor disconnected.  

 

HAS IT RUN with the o2 disconnected since the wires burnt?????????????????????????????????????????????

[Newbiebmw2021]

yes it ran with it unplugged before it burnt. it never ran once the o2 sensor got burnt. 

[dirtrider]

25 minutes ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

yes it ran with it unplugged before it burnt. it never ran once the o2 sensor got burnt. 

 

25 minutes ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

yes it ran with it unplugged before it burnt. it never ran once the o2 sensor got burnt. 

Afternoon  Newbiebmw2021

 

OK, somehow I though you had it running by disconnecting the o2   after finding the o2 sensor wires burnt. 

 

So lets move on__ 

 

Next thing to try is to remove fuse #5 (5th fuse in from shifter side) for about 20 minutes, then re-install fuse 5. Then see if it will start. 

 

If not then can you hear the fuel pump run for about 3 seconds when you turn the key on? 

[Newbiebmw2021]

did the test and it didn’t start. 

fuel pump does prime like it did prior to pulling the fuse. 

[dirtrider]

11 minutes ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

did the test and it didn’t start. 

fuel pump does prime like it did prior to pulling the fuse. 

Evening Newbiebmw2021

 

Have you had the fuel tank removed or had the fuel tank hoses disconnected since the last time it ran? If so then make sure the hoses are connected properly. 

 

You were working with harness connectors a while back are they ALL snapped back together correctly?

 

Are you getting a spark with the engine cranking? 

 

Are you getting 12v to the green wire at the fuel injectors for 3 seconds at key-on then full time during engine cranking?

 

 

[Newbiebmw2021]

I will check these three things. 

 

12 bolts at green wire during priming 

 

all hoses and connectors are reconnected. make sure 

 

spark during cranking 

[Newbiebmw2021]

evening ,

I checked the wires and all were plugged in. 

 

i have 12 volts at the green wire for 3 seconds when it primes. 

 

i have spark when turning over the engine.

 

one thing i did when the gas tank was off was i cut the rubber hose connecting the drain and the vent under the tank. remember they were going into each other. other then that it’s al like it was

 

[dirtrider]

Morning  Newbiebmw2021

 

I checked the wires and all were plugged in. --- Ok that is now accounted for. 

 

i have 12 volts at the green wire for 3 seconds when it primes. --- This is also good as it indicated the Motronic (at least fuel pump part)  is working as well as your fuel pump relay is working.  

 

i have spark when turning over the engine.--- Also good so that is now accounted for. 

 

one thing i did when the gas tank was off was i cut the rubber hose connecting the drain and the vent under the tank. remember they were going into each other. other then that it’s al like it was.--- You need to add some hose to each of those fittings then route the hoses to exit just behind & slightly below the right side riders foot peg (will probably prevent a future motorcycle fire) 

[dirtrider]

More____ 

 

You seem to have spark per your above post so HES & Motronic seem to be working (at least for spark)

 

You now need to check for fuel flow out of the rear fuel return hose coming from the rear (not the tank end) . Should have pencil sized stream for 3 seconds at key on then continuous during engine cranking.   (upper hose from rear is the fuel return hose)

 

If you have return fuel flow per the above then you need to remove a fuel injector then with fuel line & wires still hooked up to the injector point the  injector into a jar then crank the engine to see if you are getting fuel spray form the fuel injector. Be sure to point it into a catch jar or container so you don't spray fuel all over & cause a fire.  

[Newbiebmw2021]

morning dr,

i will get hoses to route like you said. How do i check the first test from the return hose? 

I understand how to pull the injector for the second test but not sure how to do the first 

[dirtrider]

31 minutes ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

morning dr,

i will get hoses to route like you said. How do i check the first test from the return hose? 

I understand how to pull the injector for the second test but not sure how to do the first 

Afternoon Newbiebmw2021

 

Your motorcycle is kind of a strange beast because it has ben built form an RT into an R bike.

 

So first we need to know if the fuel hoses on your fuel tank have quick disconnects on them? 

[Newbiebmw2021]

Yes it has quick discconnects

[dirtrider]

28 minutes ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

Yes it has quick discconnects

Afternoon Newbiebmw2021

 

First thing is make absolutely sure that BOTH of your quick disconnects are FULLY pushed together. If so then move on to the below__ If they weren't solidly pushed together  then push them all the way together & try starting it. 

 

The return line is the top one, you can just unplug the top quick disconnect, then you will have to use something to hold the inner check valve open on the top one coming from the rear to do you fuel flow test. 

 

[Newbiebmw2021]

no Gas coming out of the injector when turning the bike over

 

gas comes out of the return line when i push the quick disconnect in

 

 

[dirtrider]

11 hours ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

no Gas coming out of the injector when turning the bike over

 

gas comes out of the return line when i push the quick disconnect in

 

 

Morning Newbiebmw2021

 

OK, IF you have a steam of fuel coming out of the rear fuel return line & have 12v going to the injectors then your problem is more than likely  the fuel injectors not triggering (Motronic not pulsing the injectors on/off/on/off).

 

You will need to put a NOID light (or 12v led)  across one of the injector connectors to test this.  The NOID light (or 12v led) should flash as the Motronic pulses the injectors during engine cranking. 

 

 

[Newbiebmw2021]

ok i will do this test today. 

i need to pickup a led light. 

 

If this is true does this mean i smoked the computer?

[dirtrider]

8 minutes ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

ok i will do this test today. 

i need to pickup a led light. 

 

If this is true does this mean i smoked the computer?

Afternoon  Newbiebmw2021

 

That is a possibility. 

[Newbiebmw2021]

ok did the test wirh a test light and it flashed when turning the ignition over. so it does work. i took a video it you want to see it. 

 

 

[dirtrider]

Quote

ok did the test with a test light and it flashed when turning the ignition over. so it does work. i took a video it you want to see it. 

Morning Newbiebmw2021

 

That isn't the best type of light to test for injector triggering but it is coming on so the injectors should be spraying.  

 

OK, according to your previous testing it has spark, has fuel coming out of the REAR fuel return line,  & the injectors are triggering on.

 

So why aren't the fuel injectors spraying fuel when cranking ???????? (we need to understand this!!!!)

 

Are you SURE that you have a good stream of fuel coming out of the REAR  (not the front)  fuel return hose when the fuel pump is running?  (re-check this)

 

Every time that injector test light is ON it should be spraying fuel out of the injector so (IF) you have enough fuel pressure to open the fuel pressure regulator & push a stream of fuel out of the REAR fuel return line, & (IF) the injector is triggering on, then it SHOULD be spraying fuel.

 

If another re-test shows a good stream of fuel flowing out of the REAR top fuel hose, & a re-test shows the injector is triggering (on) while cranking but STILL no fuel spraying out of the injector then you m-i-g-h-t have plugged injector inlet screens (small very fine filters in the fuel injector inlets).   

 

Kind of a long shot as it ran just before the o2 incident but  possible.

 

Personally I would disconnect the o2 sensor for all your remaining testing as it will start & run just fine without it connected & we don't know if the shorted pigtail effected it. (just disconnect it until you can get the engine started THEN you can plug it back in)

 

 

 

 

 

[Newbiebmw2021]

good morning dr,

well i don’t think i did the correct check on the return hose of fuel. when i check rhat i need to cycle it on? I just pushed it in and it flowed fuel but I realize i did the test wrong. It needs to push the fuel (hence fuel pump working) 

 

 

i will retest this tonight. 

I have learned allot from you helping me. really cool

[Newbiebmw2021]

do i need to cycle the bike while holding the return line down or just check if gas is coming out of the return line.
 

i did it when cycling (turning the engine over and it came out at the same speed as it did when the engine was off. gas comes out but it doesn’t come out harder when turning it over 

 

 

 

 good morning dr,

well i don’t think i did the correct check on the return hose of fuel. when i check rhat i need to cycle it on? I just pushed it in and it flowed fuel but I realize i did the test wrong. It needs to push the fuel (hence fuel pump working) 

 

 

i will retest this tonight. 

I have learned allot from you helping me. really cool

 

 

 

[dirtrider]

4 minutes ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

do i need to cycle the bike while holding the return line down or just check if gas is coming out of the return line.
 

i did it when cycling (turning the engine over and it came out at the same speed as it did when the engine was off. gas comes out but it doesn’t come out harder when turning it over 

 

 

 

 good morning dr,

well i don’t think i did the correct check on the return hose of fuel. when i check rhat i need to cycle it on? I just pushed it in and it flowed fuel but I realize i did the test wrong. It needs to push the fuel (hence fuel pump working) 

 

 

i will retest this tonight. 

I have learned allot from you helping me. really cool

Afternoon Newbiebmw2021

 

When you turn the key on that pressurizes the fuel rail for about 2 to 3 seconds. So you should get a short shot of fuel out as the pump runs.

 

The return line doesn't build much pressure as the front end of that return line is open so it can't build any pressure.

 

Then with engine turning over you should get a small steady stream of fuel flowing out. About a small pencil sized stream with an open hose but the (held open) disconnect's check valve will restrict that somewhat.  

 

[Newbiebmw2021]

i did a video here. 

 

[dirtrider]

Afternoon Newbiebmw2021

 

That looks like the line coming from the front not the rear?????????????????????

 

You need to be checking on the line that comes from the REAR!

 

The lower line MUST be hooked up to the lower rear for the test/

[Newbiebmw2021]

ok. i will check the other line coming from the rear. 

[Newbiebmw2021]

here is the new video of the return hose. Gas barely comes out at the end of the test. not much at all and it took a bit for it to come out. 

here is the test 

 

 

[dirtrider]

Morning Newbiebmw2021

 

Was the lower (pressure hose) hooked up during that test??? 

 

It didn't look like it.

 

The lower pressure hose MUST be hooked up (snapped together) to run a return fuel flow test.

[Newbiebmw2021]

Good morning dr,

Updated Test,

no fuel coming out https://youtube.com/shorts/8rYl3Nn8lAE?feature=share

 

ie the fuel pump not working?

[dirtrider]

14 minutes ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

Good morning dr,

Updated Test,

no fuel coming out https://youtube.com/shorts/8rYl3Nn8lAE?feature=share

 

ie the fuel pump not working?

Afternoon Newbiebmw2021

 

It is pointing to the pump not working so are you darn SURE that you can hear the fuel pump prime for 3 seconds at key-on?  

 

Is the fuel pump pigtail connector FULLY snapped together????????

 

Next re-check for 12v at the green wire going to a fuel injector (3 seconds at key-on then continually during engine cranking) 

 

If green wire has 12v then Do this carefully as it could spray explosive fuel all over-- Unsnap the lower fuel disconnect then see if you have a large stream of fuel at pressure coming from FRONT HOSE. (try to point the quick disconnect into a container to catch the fuel spray)   

[Newbiebmw2021]

rechecked plug. it’s good

i have 12 volts at injector and then 12 once turning it over

 

front hose test

the pressure stays the same 

https://youtu.be/Q4mt9yKXOVA

 

 

do i need to buy the whole pump or does it come separately?

 

[dirtrider]

15 minutes ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

rechecked plug. it’s good

i have 12 volts at injector and then 12 once turning it over

 

front hose test

the pressure stays the same 

https://youtu.be/Q4mt9yKXOVA

 

 

do i need to buy the whole pump or does it come separately?

 

Afternoon Newbiebmw2021

 

OK, green wire having 12v says the relays are OK. 

 

Lets not condemn the pump just yet, let's verify 12v to it first. Then if 12v to it then verify the pump ground.

 

So next test, unplug the fuel tank electrical connector, then on the motorcycle side of that connector see if you have 12v on the green wire at key-on & during cranking.    

 

If you have 12v then do the test again but this time use the brown wire in that fuel tank connector for your meter ground point.   

[Newbiebmw2021]

Good evening

Dr,

Test done ✅ 

 

12 volts at the green wire during prime and while turning over 

12 volts during prime and cranking with brown wire on harness for ground. 

 

 

[dirtrider]

6 hours ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

Good evening

Dr,

Test done ✅ 

 

12 volts at the green wire during prime and while turning over 

12 volts during prime and cranking with brown wire on harness for ground. 

 

 

Morning  Newbiebmw2021

 

OK, that means 12v & ground is getting to the pump pigtail harness.

 

Did that motorcycle come with those quick disconnects or did you add them after buying the motorcycle?

 

You are probably going to have to remove the fuel tank & look at things inside. It's possible that you have a bad pump, or possibly it just blew a pressure hose off inside the tank, or even possible that it split a pressure hose inside the tank.

 

I have even seen a few that had a high resistance 12v or ground right where the power or ground passed through the pump pass-through plate.   

 

Thing is: I keep coming back to is that it RAN OK just before the o2 sensor shorted. So what made that pump quit pumping right after that o2 pigtail repair????????????????? 

 

The pump relay was buzzing but you have 12v output from that relay now so that part seems to be OK. Difficult to believe that buzzing relay damaged your fuel pump but I suppose anything is possible. 

 

 

[Newbiebmw2021]

good morning dr,

Sounds like the pump somehow took a crap somehow. 

 

I will pull the unit out of the tank tonight. I already have the tank off. I will send photos once it is out. 

 

I am also gonna drown the gas and get rid of it and put new gas in there .

[dirtrider]

12 minutes ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

good morning dr,

Sounds like the pump somehow took a crap somehow. 

 

I will pull the unit out of the tank tonight. I already have the tank off. I will send photos once it is out. 

 

I am also gonna drown the gas and get rid of it and put new gas in there .

Afternoon Newbiebmw2021

 

It sure could be the pump but it also could be other things, so before tearing the pump off of the pass-through plate  you might want investigate further.  

[Newbiebmw2021]

Sounds good. So just pull it out and look at the whole unit like you said? 

 

Once i have it out i will post some photos. i won’t pull anything apart beyond what we discuss

 

[Newbiebmw2021]

Fuel pump,

Pulled it out and noticed a hose was off the pump so i reattached it and put the pump back in and the bike started and only ran for a second then blew #5 fuse. 

 

Is the pump pulling too much current? It was making a weird noise like it was working really hard before it blew the fuse. 

 

here is a photo before i reattached the hose. 

 

were it stands now is the pump is back out ready to get another pump but waiting on dr for directions . 

 

[dirtrider]

4 hours ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

Fuel pump,

Pulled it out and noticed a hose was off the pump so i reattached it and put the pump back in and the bike started and only ran for a second then blew #5 fuse. 

 

Is the pump pulling too much current? It was making a weird noise like it was working really hard before it blew the fuse. 

 

here is a photo before i reattached the hose. 

 

were it stands now is the pump is back out ready to get another pump but waiting on dr for directions . 

 

 

Morning   Newbiebmw2021

 

First thing, that pump assembly has the incorrect hose clamps, that  hose or hoses will probably blow off again in the future if you don't use the correct (high pressure) fuel injection hose clamps.  Those worm gear type clamps keep sinking into the hose then won't hold the high pressure hoses on. This is BAD if it happens a long ways from home.  Not even that good if it happens in your driveway. 

 

OK, now on your fuse blowing?-- Are you DARN SURE that it is fuse #5 & not fuse #6 blowing? 

 

If it is fuse #5 then it probably isn't the fuel pump blowing the fuse.

 

If it is fuse #6 then it could be the fuel pump blowing the fuse. 

 

Did you disconnect the o2 sensor like I asked you to in my above post??????????????????????__ If not then DO THAT!

 

A problem with the o2 sensor can blow fuse #5.  

 

 

Note: the proper F.I. hose clamps don't have all those little worm drive slits in them to dig (sink) into the high pressure hoses. 

 

 

 

[Doctor T]

This is where forums come in to their own. Fellow bikes helping bikes. Well done to D.R trying to sourt this out and good luck to the OP.

[dirtrider]

Morning   Newbiebmw2021

 

More____

 

It looks like your internal fuel tank vent & drain is plugged off. You can probably live with the drain plugged off but you absolutely need to have a working tank vent. 

 

While it is apart you should probably look into getting your tank vent re-plumbed correctly.  (unfortunately the submersible fuel hose needed for the internal venting is very expensive)

 

 

 

[Newbiebmw2021]

I am sorry i meant fuse 6. 

 

So i need to order

vent hose

fi injection clamps 

should i order a pump also?

 

 

 

[dirtrider]

5 minutes ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

I am sorry i meant fuse 6. 

 

So i need to order

vent hose

fi injection clamps 

should i order a pump also?

 

 

 

Afternoon Newbiebmw2021

 

You should probably replace all the in-tank hoses as the high pressure hoses tend to get weak with age then fuel at the worst possible times.  

 

Before ordering a new pump what was the amp rating of the #6 fuse that failed?