fix it list and 2002 bmw 1150

[Newbiebmw2021]

Hello all,

This is a continued thread of this thread. 

 

 

 

Here is all the problems currently.               

1. won't idle (dies when I let run)            

2. idle is high                          

3. makes a squeal noise when I rev the motor.

4. runs super rich

5. gas tank quick connectors are leaking

6. needs airbox side scoop.

7. the wiring is a bit off a mess

8. gas tank vents aren't properly routed

9. aftermarket exhaust

10. check and verify that all wiring is correct and all sensors are connected. "cop bike prior and all lights were removed and fuses"

 

 

things I will need to buy

1.exhaust possibly the full exhaust

2. check compression buy/ rent tester

3. airbox side scoop

4. tail light broken "new left side tail light

5. proper hoses for gas tank vent system

6. correct handlebars

 

 

[dirtrider]

28 minutes ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

Hello all,

This is a continued thread of this thread. 

 

 

 

Here is all the problems currently.

1. won't idle (dies when I let run)

2. idle is high

3. makes a squeal noise when I rev the motor.

4. runs super rich

5. gas tank quick connectors are leaking

6. needs airbox side scoop.

7. the wiring is a bit off a mess

8. gas tank vents aren't properly routed

9. aftermarket exhaust, 

 

Evening  Newbiebmw2021

 

OK that is a list to work on. 

 

Is your oil leak (oil blowing out the breather) problem gone now?  

[Newbiebmw2021]

yup. the oil leak is fixed. I put the proper hose to the airbox.

 

following dirt rider advice

 going to do a compression test to see if this motor is ok

[dirtrider]

12 hours ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

yup. the oil leak is fixed. I put the proper hose to the airbox.

 

following dirt rider advice

 going to do a compression test to see if this motor is ok

Morning  Newbiebmw2021

 

Good place to start__

 

When you run a compression test on the BMW boxer engine,  first remove fuse #5 (that stops the fuel injector spray) then hold the throttle wide open while cranking engine (that lets max air in to compress).  

[Miguel!]

On the squeal, my engine  squeals when I rev the engine if it’s cold. I found it’s the alternator belt. It stops after 30 seconds or so and doesn’t squeal when it’s warm. 

 

 

[dirtrider]

Morning Newbiebmw2021

 

It looks like Miguel! is working with you now, so I will back out of this thread so you only have one person & one direction. 

 

Your problems are complex & unique so it won't work with more than one poster taking you in a different directions.

 

[Miguel!]

Nope, just offering an observation of a similar squeal I had one my R1100RT. I don't have your experience and knowledge dirtrider and as such, I really don't have the ability to solve any of Newbiebmw2021's problems. So please step back in and I'll step out. Miguel😎

[Newbiebmw2021]

6 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Morning Newbiebmw2021

 

It looks like Miguel! is working with you now, so I will back out of this thread so you only have one person & one direction. 

 

Your problems are complex & unique so it won't work with more than one poster taking you in a different directions.

 

no brother. just you and I. I appreciate all you have said so far. 

** miguel take a hike. lol

Thank you for trying to help tho. 

[Newbiebmw2021]

9 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Morning  Newbiebmw2021

 

Good place to start__

 

When you run a compression test on the BMW boxer engine,  first remove fuse #5 (that stops the fuel injector spray) then hold the throttle wide open while cranking engine (that lets max air in to compress).  

I am on it brother 

[Newbiebmw2021]

did compression test. 

145 on right leg side 

155 on left leg side

 

about to install cat. converter 

[Newbiebmw2021]

So i went to install the cat on the exhaust and realized the cat is dual input into it and the header coming off the motor goes from 2 into 1 so i need to buy the correct header pipe going into the cat., then buy the correct muffler for it.

 

did compression test. 

145 on right leg side 

155 on left leg side

 

Edit* I did a little more research and realized i have the rs model which has the cat/ muffler all in one. i will send this cat back and buy the right one. 

[dirtrider]

11 hours ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

So i went to install the cat on the exhaust and realized the cat is dual input into it and the header coming off the motor goes from 2 into 1 so i need to buy the correct header pipe going into the cat., then buy the correct muffler for it.

 

did compression test. 

145 on right leg side 

155 on left leg side

 

Edit* I did a little more research and realized i have the rs model which has the cat/ muffler all in one. i will send this cat back and buy the right one. 

 

Morning  Newbiebmw2021

 

Your compression seems OK, within 10 psi side to side with the L/H side higher (probably due to more carbon in the combustion chambers on the L/H side). 

 

On your exhaust system, make sure that you are getting the correct exhaust system for your particular motorcycle.   The (1150R), (1150S), (1150RS), (1150RT) are all slightly different so if you have an 1150R be sure to get the exhaust parts for the 1150R. 

 

 

 

[Newbiebmw2021]

will the vin help me know exactly what mode this is, or are you’d sting i have the 1150r? 

[dirtrider]

9 minutes ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

will the vin help me know exactly what mode this is, or are you’d sting i have the 1150r? 

Afternoon Newbiebmw2021

 

With that thing being an old police bike (I'm pretty sure anyhow) who knows what you really have.

 

Private message me your VIN & I will try to figure it out for you.  (don't post your VIN on this public web site) 

[dirtrider]

Afternoon Newbiebmw2021

 

Got your personal message__ 

 

Well, I still don't know what you are working with as the VIN you sent me comes up as a  (USA) R1150RT (R22)  produced in 11/2001. 

 

 

 

  

[dirtrider]

Morning____

 

Follow up for those following this thread__

 

Per off-thread PM conversations:

 

We are still trying to figure out what this motorcycle actually is/was.

 

It seems to have started life as an early 1150RT-P (police bike), from there it was modified into an R, but the engine is also not the original 1150RT-P engine. 

[Newbiebmw2021]

Thank you so much for the help. I am getting there. just ordered the rt exhaust. I hope it fits. 

after I fix that I will work on the tps

[JamesW]

Here's a thought:  Sell it!  Only kidding....sort of.

[Newbiebmw2021]

On 4/17/2022 at 9:00 AM, JamesW said:

Here's a thought:  Sell it!  Only kidding....sort of.

nah. I don't like giving up. I am actually enjoying learning these bmws

[Newbiebmw2021]

Ok here is a up date. The exhaust for the rt fit perfect it just hangs low and I need to make a bracket to hold the exhaust but it fits good. next I will check thew tps. 

 

I haven't run it yet with the exhaust on.

[Newbiebmw2021]

exhaust in and mounted pretty good. ran bike and still runs really rich and smells bad.

 

gonna reset the tps next since it was physically moved. after that i’m not sure

 

[dirtrider]

11 hours ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

exhaust in and mounted pretty good. ran bike and still runs really rich and smells bad.

 

gonna reset the tps next since it was physically moved. after that i’m not sure

 

 

Morning Newbiebmw2021

 

Do get your TPS reset then see how it runs.

 

How old is the gasoline in the fuel tank? If old, or new gasoline put in on top of old gasoline then that can give you a foul smelling exhaust.

[Newbiebmw2021]

adjusted the tps and have everything hooked up. the running rich problem seems to be better thank god but it was running really weird noise under the seat. 

 

 

here is a video. you can here it 

 

[Newbiebmw2021]

Spoiler

 

this happened when i pulled up from a little ride on it.

another video with the a problem. 

it just started happening. makes zero sense. 

 

already tried swapping relays around and it seems that is not the issue

 

[dirtrider]

 

Quote

 

this happened when i pulled up from a little ride on it.

another video with the a problem. it just starte

d happening. makes zero sense. 

 

already tried swapping relays around and it seems that is not the issue

 

Morning  Newbiebmw2021

 

That is the fuel pump relay. 

 

Something is causing it to do that.

 

You didn't have a battery charger on the battery when that is happening did you?  If so try it with no battery charger.

 

First thing to try is just bumping the starter a little using the start button (this will move the HES cup notch a little within the HES sensor).

 

If that doesn't help then try unplugging the HES sensor to see if the relay quits buzzing.    

 

Does it buzz like that with the engine running (use a mechanics stethoscope, or a long screwdriver on the relay & also on your ear, or use a piece of hose (length of garden hose will work) to listen to that relay with the engine running. 

 

 

 

 

[dirtrider]

Quote

adjusted the tps and have everything hooked up. the running rich problem seems to be better thank god but it was running really weird noise under the seat. 

Morning  Newbiebmw2021

 

That is noisy (at least in the video).

 

Problem is: noise recordings using a cell phone then played through computer speakers don't always tell the whole story. That is something that should be heard in person to make an informed judgment. 

 

It might be a bad pump, or just the pump hard parts contacting the inside of the steel fuel tank. 

 

The bottom line is that is doesn't sound good though & should be identified & corrected. 

[Michaelr11]

11 hours ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

this happened when i pulled up from a little ride on it.

another video with the a problem. 

it just started happening. makes zero sense. 

 

D.R. is giving you direction, so follow his lead.  Just have to ask... That relay you pulled is the fuel pump relay. The relay just to the left of it, on the other side of the divider is the horn relay.  They are identical relays.  Did you try putting the horn relay into the fuel pump relay slot?

 

Since your fuel pump relay is not shutting off, your pump is running continuously, even just at key on, when it should only cycle for a second.  Is your fuel level very low?  I recently ran my tank down quite a lot and the fuel pump got noticeably louder as the fuel level dropped.

[dirtrider]

2 hours ago, Michaelr11 said:

 

D.R. is giving you direction, so follow his lead.  Just have to ask... That relay you pulled is the fuel pump relay. The relay just to the left of it, on the other side of the divider is the horn relay.  They are identical relays.  Did you try putting the horn relay into the fuel pump relay slot?

 

Since your fuel pump relay is not shutting off, your pump is running continuously, even just at key on, when it should only cycle for a second.  Is your fuel level very low?  I recently ran my tank down quite a lot and the fuel pump got noticeably louder as the fuel level dropped.

Afternoon  Michaelr11

 

Since your fuel pump relay is not shutting off, your pump is running continuously, even just at key on, when it should only cycle for a second.-- You have to be careful with this one as an erratic signal from the HES, or  erratic voltage or from a battery charger without a clean input, can make the Motronic think it is getting a TAC signal & try to continuously trigger the pump relay.   

[Newbiebmw2021]

I tried swapping relays and it did the same thing. I don’t even have the gas tank on the bike for it to trigger it to be low on gas. 

 

The relay i pulled was the fuel pump relay right?

 

bike will not start now. 

 

any ideas 

[dirtrider]

22 minutes ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

I tried swapping relays and it did the same thing. I don’t even have the gas tank on the bike for it to trigger it to be low on gas. 

 

The relay i pulled was the fuel pump relay right?

 

bike will not start now. 

 

any ideas 

Afternoon  Newbiebmw2021

 

Put, the gas tank back on as it won't run without it.

 

Yes that is the fuel pump relay.  That relay is controlled by the Motronic (fueling computer).

[Newbiebmw2021]

i had the tank on and it wouldn’t run anymore. i pulled the tank and looked around. could the computer be messed up?

 

i will put it all back together again. is there a way to test if the computer is bad ? 🤦🏻

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

i had the tank on and it wouldn’t run anymore. i pulled the tank and looked around. could the computer be messed up?

 

i will put it all back together again. is there a way to test if the computer is bad ? 🤦🏻

Afternoon  Newbiebmw2021

 

It is (very/very slightly) possible that the fueling computer is bad but more likely it is the HES sensor causing the computer to go nuts.

 

Don't put the tank back on until you disconnect the HES pig tail to see  if THAT stops the relay buzzing. (find out what is making that relay buzz first).

 

 

[Newbiebmw2021]

we’re can i find that sensor?

also why would that all of a sudden go bad?

[dirtrider]

22 minutes ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

we’re can i find that sensor?

also why would that all of a sudden go bad?

Evening Newbiebmw2021

 

Usually the sensor itself doesn't go bad (fail), it's wire pigtail going from the motorcycle wire harness to the sensor that degrades internally then the signal cross-talks across the wire strands (causes a very ragged input signal into the fueling computer). 

 

Was the motorcycle very recently washed? That can put moisture in the HES harness. 

 

Or the timing cup on the back of the front belt pulley can come loose tearing up the sensor itself.  

 

The HES sensor is located behind the front lower belt pulley but the pigtail connector in under or around/behind the alternator. (depends on if it was put back correctly after someone last worked with it). 

 

Not 100% sure that this is your problem but it should be eliminated very early in the troubleshooting process.  

 

 

 

[Newbiebmw2021]

ok awesome. when I get home from work I will try to find this at the from of the motor area. 

 

nope dignity get it wet. just drove it down the road and can back. 

[dirtrider]

10 minutes ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

ok awesome. when I get home from work I will try to find this at the from of the motor area. 

 

nope dignity get it wet. just drove it down the road and can back. 

Evening Newbiebmw2021

 

Check your private messages on this site as I sent you a picture of where the HES connector should be. 

[Newbiebmw2021]

watch video. 

the plot thickens 

 

[dirtrider]

Quote

the plot thickens 

 

Morning Newbiebmw2021

 

Not unexpected, we are (somewhat) sure the Motronic (fueling computer),  or the Motronic electrical circuit,  is causing that fuel pump relay to buzz.  That other relay you removed is the Motronic relay so removing that 2nd relay just removes key-on power from the Motronic and/or from the Motronic electrical circuit.  

 

You need to find or figure out exactly what is causing the problem. Is it from the Motronic itself, or from a corrupt HES input signal, or from a sneak circuit between the fuel pump circuit & the Motronic circuit, or from the o2 sensor, or from ????? (without further investigation who knows)

 

With that motorcycle starting out as a police 1150RT then being converted to a civilian R motorcycle, plus in some of the pictures you sent me they show a number of wiring repairs. That is going to be a tough diagnosis over the internet,  probably be difficult enough to understand working hands-on leaning over the motorcycle. 

 

You need to start by eliminating the HES sensor input to see if that makes a difference. 

 

Also, probably wouldn't hurt to make sure all your fuses are good (none blown) as who knows what the previous owners wired into what. 

 

If you added an o2 sensor in when you installed that new exhaust then make sure it's wire pigtail isn't hanging down on the hot exhaust, or that the wires were twisted & shorting out inside the harness covering. (try unplugging the o2 senor as a quick test)

 

You might eventually end up  unplugging each connector under the fuel tank one at a time until the buzzing stops THEN figuring out what circuit that connector goes to.  

[Skywagon]

Hey DR...a quick question about the op's issue.  If he has it buzzing then unplugs the HES, if the HES is the issue, will the buzzing stop?  Not to say that would be the only issue. Thanks for education.

[dirtrider]

7 minutes ago, Skywagon said:

Hey DR...a quick question about the op's issue.  If he has it buzzing then unplugs the HES, if the HES is the issue, will the buzzing stop?  Not to say that would be the only issue. Thanks for education.

Morning David

 

It should stop buzzing IF the HES is the problem (that is why my request to try the HES disconnect first). 

 

I'm pretty sure the Motronic is the cause of that relay buzzing (not 100% though) problem is in finding out IF it is the Motronic itself, or one of the Motronic inputs, or some other related circuit, or even a low voltage in one of the circuits, or something else. 

 

Simple first step is to try an HES disconnect, then next try an o2 sensor disconnect,  if problem then still exists then the testing & guessing starts.

 

Sometimes something simple (like a loose or high resistance ground) can cause a relay to buzz due to the relay's pull-in coil low  being momentarily pulled high by another circuit controlled by that relay.

[Newbiebmw2021]

so i unplugged the o2 sensor and it stopped buzzing.  i will remove the o2 sensor and inspect it. 

 

it was a new one frm beemer boneyard. 

 

[dirtrider]

3 hours ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

so i unplugged the o2 sensor and it stopped buzzing.  i will remove the o2 sensor and inspect it. 

 

it was a new one frm beemer boneyard. 

 

Afternoon  Newbiebmw2021

 

Any signs of the o2 sensor pigtail being burnt thought on the hot exhaust?

 

Was the o2 plugged into the correct motorcycle harness connector?  (this might have to be tracked down by wire colors)

 

Did you install a direct plug-in o2 sensor or a universal o2 sensor? (most universal o2 sensors don't use the same wire color code as the BMW original)

 

Any chance at all that the previous owners had the Motronic chipped (some sort of performance chip installed)? 

 

 

 

[Newbiebmw2021]

i have the o2 sensor routing on top of the exh. is this wrong. how should it be routed. 

 

i don’t think there is a performance chip in the bike. i honestly don’t know l

[dirtrider]

 

Quote

i have the o2 sensor routing on top of the exh. is this wrong. how should it be routed. 

Afternoon Newbiebmw2021

 

No it shouldn't be directly on the hot catalytic  converter (does the wire harness look to be brunt? )

[dirtrider]

Evening__

 

For those following this thread here is what was found (o2 sensor pigtail burnt on catalytic converter). This caused a short between the o2 sensor wiring & the 12v o2 sensor heater circuit. 

 

Newbiebmw2021, check your personal messages as I sent you some o2 sensor pigtail routing info. 

 

 

[Newbiebmw2021]

mistake made. this is how we learn I guess.

[Newbiebmw2021]

Here is a update. 

o2 señor shorted out. I fixed it and now when going to start it it won’t fire up. it was running but now nothing. 

i checked fuses under the seat and they looked ok. fuel pump is priming. 

 

not sure at this point

any ideas 

[dirtrider]

13 minutes ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

Here is a update. 

o2 señor shorted out. I fixed it and now when going to start it it won’t fire up. it was running but now nothing. 

i checked fuses under the seat and they looked ok. fuel pump is priming. 

 

not sure at this point

any ideas 

Evening Newbiebmw2021

 

Best place to start is to back the when it ran last.

 

So first thing to try is with the repaired o2 sensor completely disconnected.   

 

Also re-check the fuses with an ohmmeter (fuse removed) or with a voltmeter Fuse installed).  Fuses can look good but still have a small open in them. 

 

If all fuse TEST OK & it still won't start with o2 sensor disconnected post back  & we will talk you through diagnosing the circuits involved.  

[Newbiebmw2021]

ok i will do this tonight. 

I hope i didn’t fry the computer 🤦🏻

thank you 

[dirtrider]

4 minutes ago, Newbiebmw2021 said:

ok i will do this tonight. 

I hope i didn’t fry the computer 🤦🏻

thank you 

Evening Newbiebmw2021

 

Probably not as it it's 12v side is isolated by relay. But there is still slight chance if the 12v  got back onto the Motronic. 

 

You might pay particular attention to fuse #6, make sure that is good (or replace it).