2013 RT disappearing oil

[pavjayt]

Hi all,

 

I have mentioned this in my other thread related to a different issue. But this is becoming serious issue for me.

 

Last weekend I did oil change along with filter, switched to 15-50 from 10-40 (ran 15-50 since it has 1600 on it, since practically new and switched over to 10-40 couple of oil changes back)

Filled it up until I saw it at about 3/4 of the oil level glass and today morning it was at lower than 1/4 level of that glass, thats putting about 174 miles on it. This is alarming to me as this is the one that I use daily for my commute.

 

It has been trouble free since I bought it back in 2014 except for a few rear flats and the recent fuel supply hose crack at the injector. Always maintained with proper lubricants, brake pads on time including driveshaft.

 

The very first time I started smelling oil is on the very next day on my way home from work after getting the fuel pump recall done at the dealer. I still remember that moment as I literally pulled over to the side, turned off the bike to see if I am pouring down oil from somewhere, to my surprise I found no trace of oil leaks or drips. Even till today, haven't seen a drop on garage floor or at work. Cleaned up the underbody as much as I can while I did the oil change over the weekend, but again no oil trace what so ever when I check today morning.

 

Even if lets say it is leaking somewhere inside that I am not able to see it from outside, it has to come out and drip somewhere at that rate of loosing oil.

 

The only other explanation I can think of is, the oil must be making it way into the exhaust and burning out, maybe why I only smell it when I stop at a light or go slow.

 

My question is, is there something that the technician has to remove or unscrew that was not tightened properly to do the fuel pump and fuel lines to injectors replacement that may be leaking now such that oil is making its way into exhaust or into some mysterious place?

 

I am going to remove all the tupperware tomorrow evening and try to track this down over the weekend. Will pay attention to any oil puddles at the exhaust flap to see if oil is making its way to there. Will post pictures at the time. Probably some of you that are experienced can see something somewhere . Meanwhile, any suggestions, leads, tips are very welcome.

 

thanks

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, pavjayt said:

Hi all,

 

I have mentioned this in my other thread related to a different issue. But this is becoming serious issue for me.

 

Last weekend I did oil change along with filter, switched to 15-50 from 10-40 (ran 15-50 since it has 1600 on it, since practically new and switched over to 10-40 couple of oil changes back)

Filled it up until I saw it at about 3/4 of the oil level glass and today morning it was at lower than 1/4 level of that glass, thats putting about 174 miles on it. This is alarming to me as this is the one that I use daily for my commute.

 

It has been trouble free since I bought it back in 2014 except for a few rear flats and the recent fuel supply hose crack at the injector. Always maintained with proper lubricants, brake pads on time including driveshaft.

 

The very first time I started smelling oil is on the very next day on my way home from work after getting the fuel pump recall done at the dealer. I still remember that moment as I literally pulled over to the side, turned off the bike to see if I am pouring down oil from somewhere, to my surprise I found no trace of oil leaks or drips. Even till today, haven't seen a drop on garage floor or at work. Cleaned up the underbody as much as I can while I did the oil change over the weekend, but again no oil trace what so ever when I check today morning.

 

Even if lets say it is leaking somewhere inside that I am not able to see it from outside, it has to come out and drip somewhere at that rate of loosing oil.

 

The only other explanation I can think of is, the oil must be making it way into the exhaust and burning out, maybe why I only smell it when I stop at a light or go slow.

 

My question is, is there something that the technician has to remove or unscrew that was not tightened properly to do the fuel pump and fuel lines to injectors replacement that may be leaking now such that oil is making its way into exhaust or into some mysterious place?

 

I am going to remove all the tupperware tomorrow evening and try to track this down over the weekend. Will pay attention to any oil puddles at the exhaust flap to see if oil is making its way to there. Will post pictures at the time. Probably some of you that are experienced can see something somewhere . Meanwhile, any suggestions, leads, tips are very welcome.

 

thanks

Afternoon  pavjayt

 

If you JUST did the oil change then your oil loss is more than likely due to the oil level going down as the oil filled & soaked into the filter.

 

Personally I would get the engine hot, then turn off, then put bike on the center stand for 10 minutes, THEN check oil level. If low then fill to the correct level (THIS is your starting point) 

 

Then check the oil level again on 3 separate days  using the same hot engine, center stand for 10 minutes then check level.  If found low after the 3rd day level check "THEN" go looking for an oil loss problem. 

 

Most oil level problems on the BMW boxer bikes are due to checking inconsistencies. 

[9Mary7]

What he said 

 

I check mine once home from a ride long enough to FULLY heat the oil. Turn bike off and centerstand it (do NOT restart to pull into garage etc). Then I take off my gear and get a cool drink and take care of any other business. Then I walk back out to the bike and check the sight glass. Adjust as necessary.

 

Oil checks should be done the same way every time as this is the only way to get consistent readings. Your camhead has a low oil level warning float.

As far as the oil burning smell, sloppy mechanic's dirty hands will transfer oil to exhaust pipes which then burns off when you ride home. YMMV

[pavjayt]

Ok, will pay close attention to this and report promptly, usually I always check oil after sometime parking the bike after my ride back home.

[dirtrider]

22 minutes ago, pavjayt said:

Ok, will pay close attention to this and report promptly, usually I always check oil after sometime parking the bike after my ride back home.

Afternoon  pavjayt

 

If you still smell oil burning then look for blue smoke out of the muffler shortly after cold engine start. (before the catalytic converter heats up enough to burn off the oil in the exhaust. 

 

Another place to look for signs of oil leaking is on the front & front lower edge of the catalytic converter. Oil can seep from the rear balance shaft oil seal while running then flash off on the hot cat (leaves oil stains on front of cat but no signs of leakage). This could easily be your oil smell but they usually don't seep enough oil to lower the oil level in the crankcase. 

[pavjayt]

1 hour ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon  pavjayt

 

If you still smell oil burning then look for blue smoke out of the muffler shortly after cold engine start. (before the catalytic converter heats up enough to burn off the oil in the exhaust. 

 

Another place to look for signs of oil leaking is on the front & front lower edge of the catalytic converter. Oil can seep from the rear balance shaft oil seal while running then flash off on the hot cat (leaves oil stains on front of cat but no signs of leakage). This could easily be your oil smell but they usually don't seep enough oil to lower the oil level in the crankcase. 

I do notice lot of smoke on cold start at a stop light. Then, I usually dont keep it idling when I start, I take off as soon as I start and the almost always wait at a stop light within 10-15s for a good amount of time and I see loads of smoke coming off of exhaust, I always thought that being a motorcycle, it is normal until it gets to operating temps. Once its hot, I dont see it at stop lights anymore or maybe I should play very close attention to what I am seeing when its hot........

[9Mary7]

Smoke or water vapor that dissipates as it rises??

[Dave_in_TX]

How much oil did you add when you changed it? If the old oil is drained and oil filter is replaced, you can safely add four quarts.

[dirtrider]

15 hours ago, pavjayt said:

I do notice lot of smoke on cold start at a stop light. Then, I usually dont keep it idling when I start, I take off as soon as I start and the almost always wait at a stop light within 10-15s for a good amount of time and I see loads of smoke coming off of exhaust, I always thought that being a motorcycle, it is normal until it gets to operating temps. Once its hot, I dont see it at stop lights anymore or maybe I should play very close attention to what I am seeing when its hot........

Morning  pavjayt

 

Whitish/gray color smoke on a cold start on a  cool or cold morning is normal (that is just combustion moisture burning off).

 

What you don't want to see is blue or bluish colored smoke as that is typically oil burning smoke. 

 

Once the engine & catalytic converter starts to heat up then the cat will usually burn off all but the worst oil smoke. (this typically also  leaves a trail of blue smoke behind you) 

[pavjayt]

As I told, I removed the right side tupperware and removed air intake and filter and started the bike on cold.

 

Initially, I see oil deposits in the air intake box. Similar to how I saw it when I replaced air filter. Here it is how it looks like

 

 

Once I start it on a cold start and as the engine heats up, I see oil fumes coming from both corners of the air filter box and is being sucked into the cylinders as see here

 

More pictures of the situation are here

 

For now, I didnt put back the tupperware hoping to see if you guys have any suggestions that I can do tomorrow. 

 

Unrelated to this issue, but do you guys have any suggestions on how I can get these exhaust down pipes shiny again, can be seen here???

 

[dirtrider]

Quote

 

As I told, I removed the right side tupperware and removed air intake and filter and started the bike on cold.

 

Initially, I see oil deposits in the air intake box. Similar to how I saw it when I replaced air filter. Here it is how it looks like

Once I start it on a cold start and as the engine heats up, I see oil fumes coming from both corners of the air filter box and is being sucked into the cylinders as see here.

 

Unrelated to this issue, but do you guys have any suggestions on how I can get these exhaust down pipes shiny again, can be seen here???

 

Morning  pavjayt

 

It is difficult to tell much over the internet but the crankcase does vent into the air filter box. There is a spinning impeller on the crankcase vent system to hopefully prevent oil from entering the air box. 

 

If the crankcase is over-filled or your engine has a lot of combustion blow-by then you can end up with oil in the bottom of the air box.  (a little oil in the air box is normal, a LOT of oil isn't) so the cause should be found. 

 

If the bike has recently been tipped over on the L/H side (especially if tipped over while running) THAT can put a slug of oil into the vent system that ends up in the air box.  

 

Make darn sure that you are not over-filling the oil level in the crankcase!!!!! If over-filler that can lead to oil getting into the air box.

 

On your pipes?-- Those look pretty bad (beyond a simple hand polish job). Probably your best bet is to remove the pipes then send them out. If not too pitted then a commercial heavy polishing,   if too pitted for a blast & polish then a thorough bead blast & commercial high heat color coating. Not sure where you are located but there are many exhaust system coating companies that will rejuvenate your pipes.  

 

 

[pavjayt]

Thanks dirtrider for your reply

 

Wondering if that venting is happening too much such that it is even seeping out of the air intakes connection at the filter box??? I am sure the other side will also be the same.

 

The bike was never tipped over in its life, but as I am mentioning, I am parking my bike on its side stand to its left at home for the past 2 years, before that it was always on middle stand, could that attribute to this?

 

Also, I never overfill oil, as it is right now, on cold engine, it is just at the top of the slight glass orange circle.

 

I do use my bike almost daily rain or shine to work, so the headers will see lot of water on them. BTW, I am from the bay area, know any good shops that does the polishing or would you suggest, just keep using them as it is?

[pavjayt]

I have been keeping a close note on this smell to get an idea on when it happens, looks like this only happens when the ignition is running while the engine is at operating temps. I notice this smell even when I slow down and go slowly while lane splitting on freeway due to traffic after a smooth cruising at constant speed for a while. As mentioned, it happens at stop lights as well noticeably when I stop at even some slight incline.

 

Again if it is some sort of dripping onto cat or onto any exhaust, I should continue to see the fumes when I stop the bike, but nothing when I stop it, even if I try to sniff around the engine area, I dont smell at all. I am leaning towards this definitely happening during when the engine is running and hot.... 

 

I am still a bit confused why I would see small oil puddle in my air intakes pipes as seen in the pictures above. COuld it be somehow those fumes that you see in the video above are finding their way out ?

[dirtrider]

23 minutes ago, pavjayt said:

I have been keeping a close note on this smell to get an idea on when it happens, looks like this only happens when the ignition is running while the engine is at operating temps. I notice this smell even when I slow down and go slowly while lane splitting on freeway due to traffic after a smooth cruising at constant speed for a while. As mentioned, it happens at stop lights as well noticeably when I stop at even some slight incline.

 

Again if it is some sort of dripping onto cat or onto any exhaust, I should continue to see the fumes when I stop the bike, but nothing when I stop it, even if I try to sniff around the engine area, I dont smell at all. I am leaning towards this definitely happening during when the engine is running and hot.... 

 

I am still a bit confused why I would see small oil puddle in my air intakes pipes as seen in the pictures above. COuld it be somehow those fumes that you see in the video above are finding their way out ?

Evening pavjayt

 

Very difficult to tell you much without working with the motorcycle. 

 

Typically excess oil in the air box is from a bike tip-over or too much oil in the crankcase.  (you don't seem to have either of these)

 

Otherwise a plugged air filter can allow the intake negative pressure to pull oil from the engine vent system  (I assume that your air filter element is free flowing)

 

Next in line is excess combustion blow-by pressurizing the crankcase & blowing oil out of the vent system (this can also cause oil seeping past the engine seals) 

 

Then there is the unknown of possible venting system malfunction (vent impeller issue) 

 

With what you have done so far  & IF you are still pumping oil out of the crankcase  vent  then (personally) my next move would be to remove the crankcase vent hose from the engine & remotely vent the crankcase into an oil trap (large plastic container with some baffles inside). THIS would allow me to verify exactly HOW MUCH  oil is actually coming out of the crankcase vent system.

 

If excess oil IS coming out then I would probably do a thorough hot-engine leak-down test to see I there is enough ring leakage to cause the oil venting issue.   

 

 

[freetime2247]

On 2/5/2022 at 7:46 PM, pavjayt said:

As I told, I removed the right side tupperware and removed air intake and filter and started the bike on cold.

 

Initially, I see oil deposits in the air intake box. Similar to how I saw it when I replaced air filter. Here it is how it looks like

 

 

Once I start it on a cold start and as the engine heats up, I see oil fumes coming from both corners of the air filter box and is being sucked into the cylinders as see here

 

More pictures of the situation are here

 

For now, I didnt put back the tupperware hoping to see if you guys have any suggestions that I can do tomorrow. 

 

Unrelated to this issue, but do you guys have any suggestions on how I can get these exhaust down pipes shiny again, can be seen here???

 

I have a 2012 and mine looks just like your pics when I remove the fairing. I too noticed that my oil level dropped right after I had the fuel pump recall completed. I just added oil to bring the level up. I didn't need to add much. Yours is just like mine. I don't think you have any problems.

 

[Skywagon]

As DR said you most likely need to send your pipes out.  If you want to try something first.  I use Blue Magic Metal Polish Cream available at auto part stores..  Mine have never looked quite like yours, but they do get brown.  I put this on a soft polishing tool (its not a wheel but rather like 2inches D and 3 inches L bought at Harbor Freight) attach to my Dewalt Drill Driver, and get after it.  I can 99% of the brown off in about 30 minutes.  It makes a bit of a mess so wear old clothes and have something to wipe down all the places it's going to get on your bike.  If it works for you or makes some improvement its a cheap fix vs. sending out.

 

 

[pavjayt]

Thanks David, will give that a try. Heard about that stuff, but never tried it. Not looking to get it to look professional, but looking decent works for me.

 

Again, as I mentioned above, I have been using my bike as a daily driver no matter if it is pouring down or if it is a too hot of a day to handle. It always gets the job done until lately.

[pavjayt]

Getting back to this topic of -disappearing oil-

 

I did oil change at ~<34000, filled it to the top of the sight window. By 38000 it is below quarter of that window and bike started giving oil warning when going up hills.

Not a drop on the floor anywhere when parked, no visible oil leaks/seepage under the engine, its got to be going out from somewhere by burning away. There got to be an explanation for this.... 

Never had this before until the last two oil changes.

[dirtrider]

2 hours ago, pavjayt said:

Getting back to this topic of -disappearing oil-

 

I did oil change at ~<34000, filled it to the top of the sight window. By 38000 it is below quarter of that window and bike started giving oil warning when going up hills.

Not a drop on the floor anywhere when parked, no visible oil leaks/seepage under the engine, its got to be going out from somewhere by burning away. There got to be an explanation for this.... 

Never had this before until the last two oil changes.

Afternoon pavjayt

 

Are you checking the oil level the EXACT same way every time? Same engine temperature, same ground angle, same time frame after engine shut down? (this is important to seeing the same oil levels) 

 

If you are actually losing oil from the engine, and if it isn't in the bottom of the air filter box, then it must be leaking somewhere. 

 

I have seen them seep (small leak) at the engine rear counter shaft seal, in a lot of cases that type of leak will dip off the back of the engine sump then onto the catalytic converter then burn away without leaving spots on the ground. 

 

Put on a white glove or use a white paper towel then reach up on top of the rear extended engine sump & feel around the look for signs of oil on the white glove.   (see picture below, red arrows).  It is somewhat difficult to get your hand or fingers up on top of that sump porch but try your best.

 

Otherwise remove the lower spark plugs then look for signs of oil burning on the lower spark plugs. 

 

 

 

[pavjayt]

Just did oil change over the weekend and looked everywhere to find out for any leaks by removing the tupperware.

 

Looked the locations D.R. has highlighted as well.

 

Other than the oil in the air box and some seepage from both sides of it as seen in the pictures, I dont see any other spots that caught my eye.