BMW MOA

[Pocono]

Ok, after some reading around this Forum it seems as if some are members of both.  I have belonged to many forums over the years but never a paid for one.  Thoughts? Pros/Cons?

[wbw6cos]

Are you wanting to join them so that you can also use their forum? 

 

 Along with that membership fee you will get a subscription to Owner's News magazine (print, or digital - your choice.)  You will also be eligible to attend their rallys, if that is your thing.  You also can go to those as a guest and pay at the door, so to speak.  My wife and I attended the National Rally a couple of years ago when it was in Lebanon, TN.   We had fun, enjoyed all the vendors and activities for the day.   We did not do any rides, as we wanted to see what the Saturday had to offer; I volunteered for the Beer Garden, so that was fun.  We stayed at a nearby hotel, but the camping looked very comfortable, with the temps making it very enjoyable.   If you are into camping, you will enjoy a rally of the MOA.   

 

The MOA members that I have met, in person, seem friendly enough.   That said, I sometimes encountered some groups that also have their own click, and that is not necessarily a bad thing, just noticeable enough.  I will leave any comments out about their forum; I definitely sometimes feel that I am not part of that click.  HA

 

I think I have a 5 year membership.   When it expires, will I renew it?    Sure.   Why?   Dunno.   Just because, I guess.  I do skim through the monthly magazine and sometimes I learn about different aspects of safe riding techniques.   So I got that going fo me, which is nice.

[Pocono]

William,

     Thanks.  Pretty informative.  I did come across MOA when I initially searched for BMW Forums but was curious about the fee, as I said, never ran into that before.   I generally find these forums extremely informative as members share their experiences, especially in the tech and how to (or more often how not to) aspect.  I spend ALOT of time on orangetractor (Kubota) because almost no matter how well you take care of a tractor, they break.  MOA price wasn't bad really, especially if you skip the print... just something different I guess and I haven't kicked the tires enough over there.      

[lkraus]

The fee is for the whole membership, not just forum access. I think active forum users only make up about 10% of the total membership. I joined the MOA eleven years ago, and lately have thought of dropping out.  Recent forum content has not seemed that useful or attractive, but that may just be my perception - my curmudgeonly attitudes just can't compete with some of those old farts.  The magazine (digital for me) is OK, when I remember to look at it. But I did renew a couple months ago, mainly because I've saved enough on lightly used gear through the BMWMOA Marketplace to pay for many years of membership.  Members can be reimbursed up to $250/year for training fees, and I've taken advantage of that benefit a couple times.  Discounts of $250 - $500 on a new bike could be attractive if you are ready for a new bike. The rallies are kind of fun, more so if you volunteer for a couple hours during the weekend. 

[wbw6cos]

I guess you can read WHY JOIN MOA for a little more than what I told you.   

 

You mentioned tech and how-to, and yeah, there is that aspect to the forum.  More perspectives to add to BMWST postings.   Although, they do not have a dirtrider (that I know of).  

 

 

And to add, there are just about forums for evrything.   Orangetractor?  Pretty cool.

[TracerBullet]

I’ve been a member since 2003. Personally I think the price is worth what I get. To add to Williams’ comments. I think the anonymous book is gold. I have learned a lot from the magazine. I just recently saved $500 on the price of my new RT from being a member. 
different strokes for……well you know

[szurszewski]

I’ll echo that the moa membership is worth the price (I pay annually and also get the platinum roadside with tire protection - about $100 annually) but I would NOT bother to join just for the forum. You can get all the info you need for free here and at adv (at least until it is overrun by bots thanks to the new corporate overlords). 
 

I’ve been an MOA member for about 15 years and used to use the forum often. I couldn’t tell you the last time I posted something there. I occasionally look at a tech thread but only when a general google search turns one up. 

[RK Ryder]

Been a MOA member for seventeen years, a lifetime member for the past ten or twelve years and frequently a rally committee chair. Have the tire replacement/towing package and usually use the Forum and pms for technical advice. 

[DesertRoads]

I've been an MOA member for awhile now.  I haven't been to any rally's yet, but am hoping to go at least once.  I've been to the Sturgis rally's a few times, and have been one of maybe a dozen BMW riders there.  Rally's are a fun way to meet fellow riding enthusiasts.  I pay my membership for the cause and because I enjoy conversation and information sharing. 

[Pocono]

Non HD's are a bit like Hen's teeth at Sturgis.. Did the rally once a bunch of years ago on my Honda VTX 1800 and while it was Harley'esq, I still felt the need to park away.  Glad I got that rally out of my system, wish the area was not so far away from me because that riding is truly amazing.  One of the reasons I really like Americade here in the east, Lake George NY specifically, it is really on open event.  I have seen more bike varieties there than any other rally.  Not to be confused with Laconia, it's been awhile but at one point non-hd's really need not apply.  All things mellow but I have a feeling they are going to be one of the hardest to bring into the 21's century.  That event was pretty raw when I went 8 years ago and I was glad to be on a buddies spare HD.   

[szurszewski]

3 hours ago, DesertRoads said:

I've been an MOA member for awhile now.  I haven't been to any rally's yet, but am hoping to go at least once.  I've been to the Sturgis rally's a few times, and have been one of maybe a dozen BMW riders there.  Rally's are a fun way to meet fellow riding enthusiasts.  I pay my membership for the cause and because I enjoy conversation and information sharing. 

 

If you’re been to sturgis there’s no need to attend a BMWMOA rally - they’re almost indistinguishable. 

[mickeym3]

Have been to the Eugene Rally and last year’s in Great Falls.  All manner of bikes, large vendor area with discounts, concerts, seminars with good info, great beer garden, etc.  Buddy and I tented with a small group of BMWST riders (courtesy of Scout6’s organizing us) at Great Falls.  Friendly folks too who are curious about all types of bikes.  One distinction between their rallies is that unlike Sturgis the local Walmart’s don’t have large wood barrels of Jack Daniels on sale, which may be a clue. 

[Bernie]

Years ago when I attended some of the MOA International Rallies, I always found the seminars very educational.

Also the vendors are tailored towards BMW motorcycles, which is worth the trouble.

I have been to Daytona Bike week and most of the stuff sold there is useless for BMW's, unless you like Net garments and chaps.

I also enjoy the magazines and the purpose of the MOA Foundation.

Not to many motorcycle clubs promote rider education and the education of future riders.

 

 

[roadscholar]

I went to Redmond, Or., Trenton, Ont., Charleston, WV, Lima, Ohio, Burlington, Vt., Johnson City, Tenn., Bloomsburg, Pa., and Sedalia, Mo. Always walked the vendor sections and sat in on some of the seminars but mainly enjoyed seeing all the different bikes and meeting riders from around the country. Another plus it was a good excuse to go for a multi day ride to and from and see some new riding areas. 

 

A few pics from the Sedalia rally, stopped in for a day and a half on the way to the Salida Unrally.

 

 

Camped near this guy in a huge open field with electricity, bathrooms and showers for 10 bucks a night, it was across the road from the MOA designated campground for $40. that was packed like sardines : ) He wanted to trade me his Airstream for my old Roadtrek camper van, I shoulda done it.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[lkchris]

Yeah, I've been an MOA member for something like 30 years.

 

At one time it was noted as the largest membership automotive (car or motorcycle) club in the USA.

 

Their main claim to fame imho is the annual rally, ("the National") which can draw big crowds and is pretty fun to experience.

 

They are particularly weak imho at providing technical assistance, both in terms of magazine articles as well as interface with BMW NA ... the latter essentially nonexistent.  At one time there was Oak Okleshin a civil engineer type from Illinois who spoke German and had German contacts and who could provide great technical information, but that was just Airheads and that's long past and he's dead.

 

Compared to Dirtrider at this forum, there appears no one comparable with actual professional experience maintaining/repairing current models serving as consultant to members ... and there hasn't been for decades.  They have an Airheads guru who by now has discussed everything that could be discussed (more than once).  For forums, this is the best one.

 

Best thing that's happened to MOA again imho has been the physical move to South Carolina essentially to next door to the BMW car club (CCA) which is an order of magnitude more professional operation.

 

In the years I've been a member, the monthly magazine has mostly had poor editors, with one notable exception being Sandy Cohen.  She broke away from that and she and her husband purchased the German publication BMW Motorcycle Magazine, which featured some actually useful technical articles, sometimes done by a really beautiful German female mechanic.  There were numerous accessory "road tests" of high technical quality, several times providing real data that you could add up to 1.5 horsepower fitting an aftermarket exhaust.  This operation ultimately became defunct.

 

There are of course related local chapters associated with MOA (RA too, often both) and I've posted continuously that membership in your local club is essential to obtaining best technical advice, especially if the club has an actual engineer as a member.  Somebody in the club has BTDT for about everything and somebody owns the special tools you need.  Many times local club membership will get you a parts price discount at your local dealer.  The socialization ain't bad either.

[Scott9999]

22 minutes ago, lkchris said:

For forums, this is the best one.

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

 

Hands down!  We've lost so really great talent over the years (mortality sucks), but still, this is the best of the best, IMHO. 

 

🍻🏆  

Since I was away from here six years, other familiar nom de plume's have disappeared from forum posts, and one never knows if someone has just lost interest, or unfortunately, passed anonymously from this world (as surely, I will one day sooner than later).  While I bought my first BMW as a lark, based on an infatuation of the things my buddy had all the way back in college, I certainly wouldn't still be riding one if I hadn't found this site (i.e. they are damn heavy bikes to push around, and that would I would have been doing lots of, without the technical assistance from others on this forum, over the years 🤣🤣).

[wbw6cos]

20 hours ago, Bernie said:

 

Not to many motorcycle clubs promote rider education and the education of future riders.

 

 

 

 

Great point, Bernie!   In fact, BMWST is offering training and it can be used to get a discount for the course from the MOA (as a member,) to wit:  Trail Braking Course at the UnRally!  

[Pocono]

LKChris,

  Articulate and very informative.  Many thanks!

sjb

[Colorado Jeff]

The only reason I am a MOA member is the Anonymous Book.  I end up in some very remote areas and if I have an issue, assuming there's cell coverage (and that's not a certainty), I know that someone is there to help.  There's tons of stories of folks driving for hours with their trailer to rescue someone, and do it at no charge.  

 

I am in the Anonymous Book and would absolutely do the same if someone called with an issue.

[BamaJohn]

On 2/21/2022 at 10:33 PM, roadscholar said:

I went to Redmond, Or., Trenton, Ont., Charleston, WV, Lima, Ohio, Burlington, Vt., Johnson City, Tenn., Bloomsburg, Pa., and Sedalia, Mo.

Found myself singing "I've been everywhere man, I've been everywhere...."   and believe you truly have, Bill!  

 

 

[RTinNC]

IMHO ... the MOA is well worth the cost of admission at $49 a year or less if you join for 2 years.  It is more than simply access to the very useful forums but also a great monthly magazine that is very well done and of course as already noted the Annual "National" Rally.   I started riding BMW's in 2000 and in 2003 attended my first National in Charleston SC and it was great.   This year my trip to Springfield will be my 13th National since 2000 when I joined.  I used to limit myself to the Nationals within about 1000 miles when I was working but having recently retired I get to attend ALL the Nationals no matter the location.  It truly provides an opportunity to ride new roads, see new places and meet new people.  In addition the cost of membership supports the organization which in turn supports it's members.  Money well spent in my opinion.  Oh and you can upgrade to Platinum  membership where you get not only 100 mile towing / roadside assistance but potential replacement of TWO tires each year and coverage is on all you bikes.  I just upgraded yesterday and having had and seen flats on the road for me it sounds like cheap insurance. 

[Ponch]

I'm a member of both the MOA and RA. DK why really, other than the mag. I don't go to rallies or do group rides.  

[Rinkydink]

I just knocked $500 off the price of my new RT because I’m an MOA member. You have to be a member for over a year to receive that perk though. 

[fatbob]

MOA is a great club!   I’ve been a member since 1983 (39 years! ).  Holy shit that makes me feel old!   I’ve been to 15 National Rally’s, great group of people.   The club magazine alone is worth the membership fees.  

[catskill]

Been an MOA member for 40+ years. Years ago, it was a great organization. Then it started to decline. Some members left and started their own forums and organizations. Took many members with them. Years ago when Oak was there, it was the place for technical information. Today, there is very little technical information available. Some members, like myself, tried to change this, but were met with significant resistance.

 

The MOA forum is not the best place to me. This forum is far better. The MOA forum is probably the last place I would go to look for tech advice.

 

I have used the Anonymous Book once over the years. But, it didn't help me that time. But, nice to have it available.

 

If you like social events, then the MOA rally is the place to be. I have been to about 5 MOA rally's . Not my thing. But, nice to do once or twice. Especially if it is close by.

 

The magazine is okay. But, it has declined over the years. Now, I just flip through it for about 5 minutes, and I'm done for the month.

 

A number of years ago the Marketplace completely died, and they did nothing. Finally, they do have a Market place again. It is okay, and you might sell your bike or parts there. But, there are better places to buy and sell bikes and parts.

 

Over the past couple of years they have added other features. None of which, I need, or have used. But, look at the features to see if there is something that might justify the membership fee.

 

You can find most features available to MOA members elsewhere for free. It does have value for some people.

 

I left a couple of years. But, this year I did renew my membership. We'll see how I feel about it next year.

 

 

[RTinNC]

48 minutes ago, catskill said:

Been an MOA member for 40+ years. Years ago, it was a great organization. Then it started to decline. Some members left and started their own forums and organizations. Took many members with them. Years ago when Oak was there, it was the place for technical information. Today, there is very little technical information available. Some members, like myself, tried to change this, but were met with significant resistance.

 

The MOA forum is not the best place to me. This forum is far better. The MOA forum is probably the last place I would go to look for tech advice.

 

I have used the Anonymous Book once over the years. But, it didn't help me that time. But, nice to have it available.

 

If you like social events, then the MOA rally is the place to be. I have been to about 5 MOA rally's . Not my thing. But, nice to do once or twice. Especially if it is close by.

 

The magazine is okay. But, it has declined over the years. Now, I just flip through it for about 5 minutes, and I'm done for the month.

 

A number of years ago the Marketplace completely died, and they did nothing. Finally, they do have a Market place again. It is okay, and you might sell your bike or parts there. But, there are better places to buy and sell bikes and parts.

 

Over the past couple of years they have added other features. None of which, I need, or have used. But, look at the features to see if there is something that might justify the membership fee.

 

You can find most features available to MOA members elsewhere for free. It does have value for some people.

 

I left a couple of years. But, this year I did renew my membership. We'll see how I feel about it next year.

 

 

Wow…. I have had pretty much the opposite experience.  Been a member since my first BMW in 2000.   I think the magazine is one of the best still being published,  as they have some new contributors.  Some decent product info, some tech info and always interesting ride reports.  I really enjoy the National Rally and been to about a dozen in my 22 years of membership.  Great to see so many cool BMWs ,  usually good vendors with lots of BMW specific parts and accessories and it provided a destination where I get to experience new roads and small towns.  Oh , and if you upgrade your membership the tire coverage is a pretty good deal.

 

but hey like most things motorcycles it’s not for everyone.

[TEDZ]

I've always enjoyed the national rally, but last year's vendor attendance was pretty thin. I hope it was covid related and that this year will be better.

[szurszewski]

7 hours ago, TEDZ said:

I've always enjoyed the national rally, but last year's vendor attendance was pretty thin. I hope it was covid related and that this year will be better.

 

I agree about the 2021 Rally - in my experience it was an anomaly, so I’m also hopeful they get back to the level of vendor (and camping space!) I’ve seen at previous rallies. Of course, I’ve only been to three or four over the last fifteen years, so it may be ten years before I go again…

[mickeym3]

I thought last year’s rally was great and of course riding in the area is exceptional.  Look forward to exploring the Springfield area this year since my Missouri exposure has primarily been hightailing across I-70 on the way West. Vendors were enough to meet basic needs, beer garden and entertainment was top notch and even the showering trailer was clean so what’s not to like?  Pitched my tent two spots from a rider I met from my home town which I departed 50 years ago!  Very cool…

[RTinNC]

49 minutes ago, mickeym3 said:

I thought last year’s rally was great and of course riding in the area is exceptional.  Look forward to exploring the Springfield area this year since my Missouri exposure has primarily been hightailing across I-70 on the way West. Vendors were enough to meet basic needs, beer garden and entertainment was top notch and even the showering trailer was clean so what’s not to like?  Pitched my tent two spots from a rider I met from my home town which I departed 50 years ago!  Very cool…

Great Falls was a great location with near perfect weather and a nice venue.   We motel it and landed great Best Western just a few miles from the site and the Great Falls location provided me with an opportunity to go coast-to-coast.  I like the varied locations providing me a destination to explore new areas.   Oh .... and I guess I should mention I won a motorcycle 

[szurszewski]

9 hours ago, RTinNC said:

near perfect weather and a nice venue.   We motel it and landed great Best Western

 

 

I think your perception of the former might be related to the latter - I seem to recall a thunder storm at least one night; my tent did fine, and I did appreciate that it was not too hot during the day (I’d rather be soaked by rain than soaked in sweat!). 

[RTinNC]

8 minutes ago, szurszewski said:

 

 

I think your perception of the former might be related to the latter - I seem to recall a thunder storm at least one night; my tent did fine, and I did appreciate that it was not too hot during the day (I’d rather be soaked by rain than soaked in sweat!). 

Hmmmm .... I don't recall rain in Great Falls but if it did rain overnight I would have missed it being cozy and dry in my motel room.   I do recall the bike getting caught in a shower outside the Hotel ... they failed to let us know where we parked about a dozen bikes there was a morning sprinkler system that fired up! 

 

[RadioFlyer]

There are many benefits to the MOA but it is essentially an extension of BMW's public relations/marketing machine by virtue of signing on with BMW Clubs International and its guidelines. It's all about the interests of the club and not so much the interests of BMW owners.

[RTinNC]

8 minutes ago, RadioFlyer said:

There are many benefits to the MOA but it is essentially an extension of BMW's public relations/marketing machine by virtue of signing on with BMW Clubs International and its guidelines. It's all about the interests of the club and not so much the interests of BMW owners.

Interesting but I have not found that at all and in fact the BMW MOA is many times at odds with BMW Motorrad.  The MOA is not connected to the company BMW and is truly a member run organization.  What is really nice about being a member of the MOA is you are truly part of the BMW Motorcycle community and that community can be extremely helpful.  Think of the support you might get like having BMWST on steroids.  There is a lot of crossover for sure but it is a wide spread organization.   That "community" is part of why I ride a BMW.   Other than maybe Harley I can't think of another brand motorcycle that has that level of support and community. 

[RadioFlyer]

27 minutes ago, RTinNC said:

Interesting but I have not found that at all and in fact the BMW MOA is many times at odds with BMW Motorrad.  The MOA is not connected to the company BMW and is truly a member run organization.  What is really nice about being a member of the MOA is you are truly part of the BMW Motorcycle community and that community can be extremely helpful.  Think of the support you might get like having BMWST on steroids.  There is a lot of crossover for sure but it is a wide spread organization.   That "community" is part of why I ride a BMW.   Other than maybe Harley I can't think of another brand motorcycle that has that level of support and community. 

Please provide examples of when the MOA was at odds with BMW on behalf of its members.

 

As I said the MOA is connected to BMW by virtue of its adherance to the Clubs International guidelines which read like they were written by BMW because they probably were.

 

I don't dispute that there are advantages to being in the MOA but almost none of those advantages are derived from being a shill for BMW. If there was no link to BMW most of the benefits would still be there.

[Gooner]

I guess another thing to consider is are you interested in participating in a local chapter?  Do they lean MOA, RA, or are they Bi? 

 

I joined both when I bought my first RT looking for the social aspect and hoping to find other like-minded riders.  I'm in Central VA and our local chapter is the Richmond BMW Riders...and it's pretty much a dead club.  I didn't get a chance to participate in any club outings pre-pestilience and there doesn't seem to be anything going on since.  Morton's in Fredricksburg is the supporting dealer and nothing against them...but they're in Fredericksburg.  That's a DC suburb and 90 mins (on a good day) away from me.  When I'm in there I see MOA propaganda in the coffee area. Other area clubs are even further away. But, I see stuff from those other areas where they have active local chapters and plenty of activities and I'm a bit jealous.  Would be curious to hear if there's anyone else around who has knowledge/experience with the Richmond club and what's happened to it. Maybe that's a separate thread or has been discussed elsewhere?

 

I gave up on the MoA a few years ago when all it seemed to be was bickering and finger-pointing over the relocation of the club HQ, the change of the logo without putting it up to a member vote, and where the rally was going to be.  Much less drama in the RA.  From some of the posts in this thread I might reconsider the MoA.  

[RTinNC]

6 hours ago, RadioFlyer said:

Please provide examples of when the MOA was at odds with BMW on behalf of its members.

 

As I said the MOA is connected to BMW by virtue of its adherance to the Clubs International guidelines which read like they were written by BMW because they probably were.

 

I don't dispute that there are advantages to being in the MOA but almost none of those advantages are derived from being a shill for BMW. If there was no link to BMW most of the benefits would still be there.

Not sure I understand your comment since you first state that MOA is connected to BMW ... then you state NONE of the club advantages are derived from "being a shill for BMW" and further state with no link to BMW the benefits would still be in place. 

Yes ... the MOA is a group of 30,000+  motorcycle riders who all prefer and enjoy BMW motorcycles.  So there certainly is a built in bias to BMW motorcycles but I have seen nothing where there is a connection to BMW.  Not sure what "guidelines" you are referring to but would love to read them if you can share.  I just checked on the MOA site and read through all the documentation there and don't see anything like you are referring to. 

I know there have been other times when the MOA was not happy with BMW but honestly don't recall the situations.  The one that comes to mind is the year the AMA featured BMW at Vintage Days.  That year BMW did not bring the demo fleet to the National Rally but decided to attend the AMA Vintage Days event.  There was a lot of chatter about that and the fact that it appeared to be a slap in the face of the MOA.   Also,  and I am not 100% sure 

 

I am not an expert on the MOA and have never served as an officer,  I have simply been a member for 20+ years since I bought my first BMW motorcycle.   Personally I enjoy the benefits of being an MOA member,  the fellow riders who are members and enjoy attending the MOA events, especially the National.    I have never heard or experienced any situation that led me to believe the MOA was connected to BMW Motorrad.  But I could be wrong however, honestly as you noted it really would not matter to the benefits or enjoyment of being a member. 

[RTinNC]

15 minutes ago, Gooner said:

I guess another thing to consider is are you interested in participating in a local chapter?  Do they lean MOA, RA, or are they Bi? 

 

I joined both when I bought my first RT looking for the social aspect and hoping to find other like-minded riders.  I'm in Central VA and our local chapter is the Richmond BMW Riders...and it's pretty much a dead club.  I didn't get a chance to participate in any club outings pre-pestilience and there doesn't seem to be anything going on since.  Morton's in Fredricksburg is the supporting dealer and nothing against them...but they're in Fredericksburg.  That's a DC suburb and 90 mins (on a good day) away from me.  When I'm in there I see MOA propaganda in the coffee area. Other area clubs are even further away. But, I see stuff from those other areas where they have active local chapters and plenty of activities and I'm a bit jealous.  Would be curious to hear if there's anyone else around who has knowledge/experience with the Richmond club and what's happened to it. Maybe that's a separate thread or has been discussed elsewhere?

 

I gave up on the MoA a few years ago when all it seemed to be was bickering and finger-pointing over the relocation of the club HQ, the change of the logo without putting it up to a member vote, and where the rally was going to be.  Much less drama in the RA.  From some of the posts in this thread I might reconsider the MoA.  

I have had the same experience in Charlotte with the local "club" that i think still exists but not sure.   I did not join the MOA for the local club or to meet local riders.  I am a member of the RA as well and like the smaller nature of the organization.  The RA really seems to have taken on some new life lately and seem very much member focused.   I suspect the MOA being so much larger can not have that "small town" feel that the RA does.   I enjoy both for different reasons.   I know in some states and regions there are strong "local" MOA clubs but like you noted there seems to be a lot if drama within those larger MOA riding clubs.  Not for me. 

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, RTinNC said:

I know there have been other times when the MOA was not happy with BMW but honestly don't recall the situations.  The one that comes to mind is the year the AMA featured BMW at Vintage Days.  That year BMW did not bring the demo fleet to the National Rally but decided to attend the AMA Vintage Days event.  There was a lot of chatter about that and the fact that it appeared to be a slap in the face of the MOA.   Also,  and I am not 100% sure 

 

Morning RTinNC

 

I can name you one, probably others but the one I am mentioning here is the reason I dropped out of MOA. 

 

Years ago BMW came out with a mandate that local clubs can no longer use their existing BMW logo's on their clubs shirts, jackets,  letterhead, or other club items. Some clubs had been using the same logo since the start of MOA with no issues. MOA flatly refused to back the clubs on this so some clubs had to change their entire club logo to comply.  

 

MOA might not have convinced BMW to change  the mandate but they should have at least put some pressure on BMW & tried to get existing clubs a grandfather use of their long standing logo's & club identity. 

 

To this day I refuse to be a member of an organization that chooses to not back it's local clubs.  

[RTinNC]

20 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

Morning RTinNC

 

I can name you one, probably others but the one I am mentioning here is the reason I dropped out of MOA. 

 

Years ago BMW came out with a mandate that local clubs can no longer use their existing BMW logo's on their clubs shirts, jackets,  letterhead, or other club items. Some clubs had been using the same logo since the start of MOA with no issues. MOA flatly refused to back the clubs on this so some clubs had to change their entire club logo to comply.  

 

MOA might not have convinced BMW to change  the mandate but they should have at least put some pressure on BMW & tried to get existing clubs a grandfather use of their long standing logo's & club identity. 

 

To this day I refuse to be a member of an organization that chooses to not back it's local clubs.  

I thought there was some rub in the past about use of the BMW logo.  In fact I have 2 vintage BMWRT (the original name if this site under Cary’s design) that both have the BMW rounded on the shoulder.  But today the rounded is nowhere to be seen in this “BMW” site.  But to your point THAT was an issue with BMW and not the MOA.   That seems to further support my position that the MOA is not attached to BMW.  While I appreciate your point it seems expanding on that would suggest you should not ride a bike built by a company that does not back its riders.

 

Years back I was a member of both Honda riders association HRA and  Kawasaki good time owners club GTOC.  Both of those organizations were supported by the brand company and were very company centric.  
 

however, Star Riders which was originally established for the Yamaha Royal Star under the name of RSTAR was an independent group And not attached to Yamaha. That’s my understanding of the construct of the MOA

 

Bottom  line is each rider needs to do what works for them. I’ve had a very positive experience with the MOA , The benefits offered, and many of the folks I’ve met at the national events. For me it’s not about the local club or local riders but about the bigger organization and that’s what I enjoy. 
 

Fir local stuff I have BMWST 👍. I truly enjoy the ART gatherings and the people and bikes. As well as the online community support which was what Cary set out to establish.

[RadioFlyer]

3 hours ago, RTinNC said:

Not sure I understand your comment since you first state that MOA is connected to BMW ... then you state NONE of the club advantages are derived from "being a shill for BMW" and further state with no link to BMW the benefits would still be in place. 

Yes ... the MOA is a group of 30,000+  motorcycle riders who all prefer and enjoy BMW motorcycles.  So there certainly is a built in bias to BMW motorcycles but I have seen nothing where there is a connection to BMW.  Not sure what "guidelines" you are referring to but would love to read them if you can share.  I just checked on the MOA site and read through all the documentation there and don't see anything like you are referring to. 

I know there have been other times when the MOA was not happy with BMW but honestly don't recall the situations.  The one that comes to mind is the year the AMA featured BMW at Vintage Days.  That year BMW did not bring the demo fleet to the National Rally but decided to attend the AMA Vintage Days event.  There was a lot of chatter about that and the fact that it appeared to be a slap in the face of the MOA.   Also,  and I am not 100% sure 

 

I am not an expert on the MOA and have never served as an officer,  I have simply been a member for 20+ years since I bought my first BMW motorcycle.   Personally I enjoy the benefits of being an MOA member,  the fellow riders who are members and enjoy attending the MOA events, especially the National.    I have never heard or experienced any situation that led me to believe the MOA was connected to BMW Motorrad.  But I could be wrong however, honestly as you noted it really would not matter to the benefits or enjoyment of being a member. 

I note that you did not provide any examples of when the MOA was at odds with BMW on behalf of its members.

 

Here is a link to the MOA member benefits. I invite you to consider how many of these would be entirely possible even if the MOA was not tied to BMW.

https://www.bmwmoa.org/general/custom.asp?page=memberbenefits

 

The BMW Clubs International website hosts the guidelines the member clubs are to adhere to. You should avail yourself of them as a member of the MOA to see what the MOA has agreed to in exchange for use of the roundel. BMW Clubs International is funded and supported by BMW and BMW has four seats on its Council.

 

BMW clubs are to:
- convey the brand message
- disseminate the BMW ideal to all corners of the world with exceptional commitment and a correspondingly broad impact
- be guided by BMW standards in the image they convey to the public
- publicly endorse the BMW image
- promote the dissemination and application of the corporate philosophy and of information on BMW products and services
- carry out a liaison between the BMW Group and the public
- support dealerships whenever new models are introduced
- help break down the disparity in values between the BMW Group and the public
- be regarded as a PR medium and a channel of communication

 

Essentially the MOA is an extension of the BMW public relations/marketing machinery.

 

 

[Bernie]

10 hours ago, RadioFlyer said:

Please provide examples of when the MOA was at odds with BMW on behalf of its members.

 

As I said the MOA is connected to BMW by virtue of its adherance to the Clubs International guidelines which read like they were written by BMW because they probably were.

 

I don't dispute that there are advantages to being in the MOA but almost none of those advantages are derived from being a shill for BMW. If there was no link to BMW most of the benefits would still be there.

You are not required to join the MOA. 

[RadioFlyer]

41 minutes ago, Bernie said:

You are not required to join the MOA. 

Of course not. This conversation is about the pros/cons of doing so. 

[RTinNC]

58 minutes ago, RadioFlyer said:

I note that you did not provide any examples of when the MOA was at odds with BMW on behalf of its members.

 

Here is a link to the MOA member benefits. I invite you to consider how many of these would be entirely possible even if the MOA was not tied to BMW.

https://www.bmwmoa.org/general/custom.asp?page=memberbenefits

 

The BMW Clubs International website hosts the guidelines the member clubs are to adhere to. You should avail yourself of them as a member of the MOA to see what the MOA has agreed to in exchange for use of the roundel. BMW Clubs International is funded and supported by BMW and BMW has four seats on its Council.

 

BMW clubs are to:
- convey the brand message
- disseminate the BMW ideal to all corners of the world with exceptional commitment and a correspondingly broad impact
- be guided by BMW standards in the image they convey to the public
- publicly endorse the BMW image
- promote the dissemination and application of the corporate philosophy and of information on BMW products and services
- carry out a liaison between the BMW Group and the public
- support dealerships whenever new models are introduced
- help break down the disparity in values between the BMW Group and the public
- be regarded as a PR medium and a channel of communication

 

Essentially the MOA is an extension of the BMW public relations/marketing machinery.

 

 

I did post a time when the MOA was at odds with BMW and Dirt Rider posted another.

 

Ironically I was thinking the MOA Benefits, other than the bike purchase discount,  all have NO relationship whatsoever to BMW.   You really don't believe those discounts or benefits would be available to an organization with 30,000+ members?    The larger any organization the more and better the benefits that would be available. 

 

You make a good point regrind the guidelines for BMW "Clubs International"  ... but I am not clear on the exact connection between BMW MOA and the BMW Clubs International?   The BMW MOA has separate Documents of incorporation but I have not seen them yet either.   However in reading the BMW Org rules and guidelines for members none of the above are outlined. 

 

But hey ... you really don't have to join the party if you prefer not to.   

[RadioFlyer]

Well you said that the MOA was unhappy and that there was chatter and that the MOA had suffered a slap in the face from BMW. None of that amounts to taking any action on behalf of the members. It sounds toitally passive if not submissive.

 

Note that Dirt Rider ended his post noting that the MOA failed to put pressure on BMW onbehalf of the clubs. For this reason he refuses to be a member of the MOA. Again this is an example of being passive if not submissive. On the other hand it is exactly what you would expect of a club adhering to the BMW Clubs International guidelines I summarized in a previous post.

 

You are correct, the MOA barely acknowledges that it is a member of BMW Clubs International and does not advertise that sends a rep to the meetings entirely funded by BMW nor does it advertise that it is bound by Council guidelines in a a quid pro quo for use of the roundel. But as I mentioned earlier that can all be found on the BMW Clubs International web site.

 

You and other have mentioned the discounts on new bikes that accrue from being an MOA member. There is a discussion of that on the MOA forum where several members report that they obtained the discount and were not asked for proof of membership. Also that the discount is not unique to the MOA but is available to "domestic military, emergency service ("Federal, State, and local governmental and nongovernmental emergency public safety, fire, law enforcement, emergency response, emergency medical (including hospital emergency facilities)), and related personnel, agencies, and authorities", MSF coaches...."

 

Also I contributed to that thread the following post which is self-explanatory:

 

"That's because what is portrayed as being a BMWMOA benefit is really something that BMW is just prepared to give because it knows the cost of customer acquisition through other means is higher than the "discount". An important metric for many companies in a competitive market is churn and the cost of acquisition. Churn measures what percentage of previous owners decide to replace their purchase with a competitor's product. The cost of acquisition measures all the money spent on promotion divided by the units sold. Giving a discount is cheap acquisition since its isn't really much of real expense - it's not as if BMW actually handed you cash. The benefit is more of a feel good. BMWMOA gets to claim a membership benefit, BMW gets a customer they might otherwise lose and the purchaser feels like they got a better deal. BMW doesn't require that the dealership prove that they sold the unit to a bonafide member because it need not care.

Post script #1
I should elaborate on why I say that this is a "feel good". I have mentioned churn as important metric. Other important metrics are percentage of market share and percentage sales growth year-over-year and of course profits. Someone in any given BMW market area (e.g. BMW NA) has the difficult job of determining the starting point for pricing - whether its the dealer's reduction thereto (if the dealer is permitted to do so, not always the case) or the various incentives, promotions and discount programs offered in the market area. The starting point is often cited as the MSRP. That someone has to strike a difficult balance. The higher the MSRP the higher the profits (all other things being equal).

But of course a higher MSRP brings the risk of losing new sales to competitors and increasing churn. Those tasked with setting the MSRP have to do a pretty extensive analysis involving the anticipated sales and post-sales revenue as well as sales volumes. I mentioned churn earlier because churn considers the customers that bought BMW motorcycles but then switched to another make at their next purchase. Repeat purchasers outnumber new purchasers.

Amongst repeat purchasers you will find owners who belong to a brand affinity club like the BMWMOA and its chartered clubs, as well that those who don't. Those who are in brand affinity clubs are members because they have formed an emotional attachment to the brand and the role of the clubs is to strengthen that emotional attachment.

When the analysts sit down to set the MRSP they have to consider how price sensitive the various potential purchasers are (ecomomists will call this demand elasticity). A new purchaser will probably be the most price sensitive (elastic) whereas repeat purchasers will probably be the least price sensitive (inelastic). Amongst the repeat customers those who participate in brand affinity clubs are the least price sensitive (most inelastic) of all (for the bikes, the service and the parts) because of their emotional attachment to the brand. Essentially they are willing to pay more because they find value in a lifestyle.

The analysts look at the willingness to pay across all the potential purchasers when they set MSRP. The higher the proportion of potential purchasers there are in the inelastic brand affinity category the more aggressive BMW can be in setting a higher MSRP. So perversely when we belong to the BMWMOA we contribute to BMW's ability to set a higher MSRP. Then we get to feel good when they offer us a "discount" when the purpose of the discount in part is to keep us in the brand affinity club. Like I said elsewhere here there is no free lunch.

The objective to increase market share tempers MSRP but getting that increased market share is really tough in NA because Harley dominates sales and its customers have really serious brand affinity to Harley. If you want to increase market share against Harley you need to offer inexpensive bikes to beginners (before Harley gets them) and hope that they become brand loyalists later on or imitate Harley by offering cruisers. The latter failed on its first attempt and the jury is out on the current attempt.

Post script #2
There is a limit to brand loyalty. For some of us BMW's decision to discontinue the provision of service informations was a tipping point. I won't buy a motorcycle for which the manufacturer will not provide service information."

[Sonor]

The anonymous book has proven its worth to me. As such, I have been a member since 2005.

[szurszewski]

I suspect that some of the contention here is based on perspective. Long time members of the MOA, I’m one, are likely looking at the MOA as it was before the move to the Carolinas not so many years ago. There were definitely some changes made at that time that do appear to be more in line with being supported officially by BMW; before that time, I would agree that the club was almost entirely independent of BMW to the point were it seemed almost an annoyance to BMW. 

 

Those that are looking, for the first time, at the MOA and seeing it as it is now setup, I think, could easily see it as being more connected to BMW. 

 

I know very, very little about the MOA (other than reading, sometimes, the magazine for the last twenty ish years, and back in the day occasionally reading a thread or two about the club on the MOA forum), so maybe this is all just in my head. In any case, I don’t really understand why this discussion seems sort of heated. No reason to belong if you don’t want, and no harm to you if you don’t belong. I can’t imagine at all caring whether or not any person joined or didn’t. 

 

Edit to add: 

 

good point about the a-book. I’ve never used it, but I like that I have access to it, and I have provided help for a rider or two over the years who found me that way. Other than that, I sometimes read the mag, I have been to a few rallies, and I get the roadside assist, but I could easily get that from another source. 

[RadioFlyer]

49 minutes ago, Sonor said:

The anonymous book has proven its worth to me. As such, I have been a member since 2005.

Me too. Member since 2003.

 

A good example of a benefit that the members have made for themselves with BMW playing no part.

[JamesW]

I've been an MOA member off and on since 1977.  I'm presently a member but I think I won't renew.  I used to many years ago when airheads were the ride really like the magazine but not so much at all now.  It's just a slick magazine and not much else.  I'll take Rider magazine any day.  This years MOA national rally only drew about 4400 if my memory serves. As far as technical help this site is all I want or need.  This and the FJR Owners Forum for my other luv. lol..lol..

[RTinNC]

4 hours ago, szurszewski said:

I suspect that some of the contention here is based on perspective. Long time members of the MOA, I’m one, are likely looking at the MOA as it was before the move to the Carolinas not so many years ago. There were definitely some changes made at that time that do appear to be more in line with being supported officially by BMW; before that time, I would agree that the club was almost entirely independent of BMW to the point were it seemed almost an annoyance to BMW. 

 

Those that are looking, for the first time, at the MOA and seeing it as it is now setup, I think, could easily see it as being more connected to BMW. 

 

I know very, very little about the MOA (other than reading, sometimes, the magazine for the last twenty ish years, and back in the day occasionally reading a thread or two about the club on the MOA forum), so maybe this is all just in my head. In any case, I don’t really understand why this discussion seems sort of heated. No reason to belong if you don’t want, and no harm to you if you don’t belong. I can’t imagine at all caring whether or not any person joined or didn’t. 

 

Edit to add: 

 

good point about the a-book. I’ve never used it, but I like that I have access to it, and I have provided help for a rider or two over the years who found me that way. Other than that, I sometimes read the mag, I have been to a few rallies, and I get the roadside assist, but I could easily get that from another source. 

Thank you for the post !!   I totally agree ... if you really dislike the MOA and BMW per se then don't join and look for another brand of motorcycle to ride.  Life is way too short. 

 

Ditto on the Anonymous book.  That is an awesome resource and thank you MOA for making that happen.  Yet another benefit consistent with my comment about the BMW "Community" and being a member of that community.  There is no other brand I am aware that has a rider community and support structure like BMW.  Maybe Harley but they seem to have a different focus. 

There is a reason why there are so many motorcycle brands and riding segments.   Everything from custom choppers to dual sport.  They are all not for everyone but the is the beauty if motorcycling ... there is something for everyone.   Ride what you like,  when you like, as far as you like ... so long as you are riding it is good for all of us!