2013 RT doesn’t want to start in the cold

[RTRay]

My 2013 RT doesn’t want to start below 40F. It will turn over a couple seconds then stops turning over. I turn off the key then turn it back on several times before it suddenly starts. This morning it took 12 tries before it caught and ran. Once running it runs perfect. I do hear  the fuel pump when I turn the key and everything seems normal but it won’t start. Any ideas?

[Hosstage]

Check for loose battery cables, bad ground connections. How old is your battery? Note too that age may not matter, sometimes batteries just start acting up.

[RTRay]

1 hour ago, Hosstage said:

Check for loose battery cables, bad ground connections. How old is your battery? Note too that age may not matter, sometimes batteries just start acting up.

Battery is one year old. 

[Hosstage]

It should be good, but...

Check the cables, including chassis ground, with any luck one is loose.

[lkraus]

Are you opening the throttle a bit?

[9Mary7]

+1 on cable and ground connections. Don't know what battery you are using......... make sure it is a quality known brand... lotta crap out there.

[Hosstage]

Is it an issue of turning over and not starting, or not turning over?

[RTRay]

I replaced the battery yesterday with a new one and the bike started up right away. Today I came out to ride and the engine turned over a couple times but wouldn’t start. I put a battery charger on it and it showed fully charged. When I tried to start it I got an EMS! Warning and just a thumping below the seat. I see this is the security system not recognizing the key. I’m in Arizona for the winter and don’t have my spare key down here so I can’t try the other key. Could changing batteries have screwed up my security system? I’m about to disconnect the battery and start over to see if it will reset itself. 

I’ve never had this problem before in 29,000 miles. 

[dirtrider]

18 minutes ago, RTRay said:

I replaced the battery yesterday with a new one and the bike started up right away. Today I came out to ride and the engine turned over a couple times but wouldn’t start. I put a battery charger on it and it showed fully charged. When I tried to start it I got an EMS! Warning and just a thumping below the seat. I see this is the security system not recognizing the key. I’m in Arizona for the winter and don’t have my spare key down here so I can’t try the other key. Could changing batteries have screwed up my security system? I’m about to disconnect the battery and start over to see if it will reset itself. 

I’ve never had this problem before in 29,000 miles. 

Afternoon RTRay

 

Could that be EWS not EMS?

[RTRay]

27 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon RTRay

 

Could that be EWS not EMS?

Sorry. It is EWS, not EMS.  Now the bike won’t turn over but just makes a thump sound down in front of the battery when I try to start it. I’m not getting the EWS warning at all but it sounds like the engine has been immobilized. 
Will disconnecting the battery reset this? 

[RTRay]

90 minutes after I got the EWS no start, the bike started as though nothing had ever happened. I restarted it several times with no issues. Now I’m not sure what to think. I guess I can first replace the key sensor ring. Not sure what else I could do. 

[dirtrider]

6 minutes ago, RTRay said:

90 minutes after I got the EWS no start, the bike started as though nothing had ever happened. I restarted it several times with no issues. Now I’m not sure what to think. I guess I can first replace the key sensor ring. Not sure what else I could do. 

Afternoon RTRay

 

 Probably nothing wrong with the antenna ring or EWS system. All that battery diddling more than likely made it default. 

 

Just make sure you have a well charged battery and remove any other  keys from you key ring that  & have RFI pellets in them.

 

If you are worried just do a battery disconnect for about 1/2 hour, then reconnect, then see if it will start OK. (make sure key is removed when reconnecting battery)

 

 

[RTRay]

I went for a 2+ hour ride and stopped 4 times, turning the bike off each time.  It restarted normally all 4 times. I assume it was the battery change that caused the problem. I’ll update if the cold start problems occur again. 

and yes, I do give the throttle a twist before starting on cold starts. 

[RTRay]

The EWS issue occurred again this morning. Tried to start the bike and got the EWS warning and the thumping sound under the seat. What’s the easiest way to fix this problem? 

[dirtrider]

20 minutes ago, RTRay said:

The EWS issue occurred again this morning. Tried to start the bike and got the EWS warning and the thumping sound under the seat. What’s the easiest way to fix this problem? 

Afternoon RTRay

 

That's a good question, you can't fix it (repair it) until you know what's causing it. 

 

If you have a different key  then you might switch to using that to see if the EWS problem goes away.

 

If you have other keys on your key ring try removing all but the 1 motorcycle  key to see if that helps. 

 

You might have a key (key pellet) issue, or an antenna ring problem, or a wiring problem, or something else. 

 

You also might try putting a GS-911 on that bike to see if you can read a stored EWS fault code. 

 

Another thing to try is next time it malfunctions is to  reach in under the ignition switch & wiggle the antenna ring wires to see if it will then start (might point you to the problem area)

[RTRay]

18 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Afternoon RTRay

 

That's a good question, you can't fix it (repair it) until you know what's causing it. 

 

If you have a different key  then you might switch to using that to see if the EWS problem goes away.

 

If you have other keys on your key ring try removing all but the 1 motorcycle  key to see if that helps. 

 

You might have a key (key pellet) issue, or an antenna ring problem, or a wiring problem, or something else. 

 

You also might try putting a GS-911 on that bike to see if you can read a stored EWS fault code. 

 

Another thing to try is next time it malfunctions is to  reach in under the ignition switch & wiggle the antenna ring wires to see if it will then start (might point you to the problem area)

I turned the bike off and tried again 30 minutes later. It started right up with no warnings. Very frustrating. 

[dirtrider]

22 minutes ago, RTRay said:

I turned the bike off and tried again 30 minutes later. It started right up with no warnings. Very frustrating. 

Morning  RTRay

 

Yes, that is frustrating as not only do you need it to act up but then you need to make a  positive change to see if that effects the problem. 

 

If you know someone with a GS-911, if they could grab the fault code (or codes), that might point you at something. 

[RTRay]

On 3/8/2022 at 8:21 AM, dirtrider said:

Morning  RTRay

 

Yes, that is frustrating as not only do you need it to act up but then you need to make a  positive change to see if that effects the problem. 

 

If you know someone with a GS-911, if they could grab the fault code (or codes), that might point you at something. 

I don’t know anyone with one but I may just purchase one instead. Thanks. 

[RTRay]

After having no more problems with this issue it reared it’s ugly head again on my ride down hwy 191 when the temperature fell below 45F at night. Several mornings it wouldn’t start at all until the temp rose above 43F, which meant I couldn’t get on the road until much later in the morning than I needed to. This problem existed both before and after BMW replaced the fuel pump under recall, so I doubt it’s fuel flow related, but I could be wrong.
 

There is a video on YouTube of a 2014 that had the same problem trying to start in cold temperatures. He never could get it fixed and ended up trading in in on a F800GT.  I hope I can find some sharp mechanic that has a clue. The bike is perfect other than this problem. 

[Hosstage]

I would think a first step would be monitoring the temp sensor readings while trying to start it in those cold conditions.

[dirtrider]

23 hours ago, RTRay said:

After having no more problems with this issue it reared it’s ugly head again on my ride down hwy 191 when the temperature fell below 45F at night. Several mornings it wouldn’t start at all until the temp rose above 43F, which meant I couldn’t get on the road until much later in the morning than I needed to. This problem existed both before and after BMW replaced the fuel pump under recall, so I doubt it’s fuel flow related, but I could be wrong.
 

There is a video on YouTube of a 2014 that had the same problem trying to start in cold temperatures. He never could get it fixed and ended up trading in in on a F800GT.  I hope I can find some sharp mechanic that has a clue. The bike is perfect other than this problem. 

Morning  RTRay

 

Exactly what is it doing when you try to start it below 43°?  Does the starter stay engaged & keep cranking but just a no-engine-start.

 

Or does the starter drop out & quit cranking? 

 

 

[RTRay]

14 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Morning  RTRay

 

Exactly what is it doing when you try to start it below 43°?  Does the starter stay engaged & keep cranking but just a no-engine-start.

 

Or does the starter drop out & quit cranking? 

 

 

It cranks normally but won’t start.  Once the temp warms up to around 43F it starts normally. 

[dirtrider]

9 hours ago, RTRay said:

It cranks normally but won’t start.  Once the temp warms up to around 43F it starts normally. 

Morning RTRay

 

This is going to be somewhat difficult to tell you anything conclusive without some testing, measuring, & guessing.

 

So lets start with WHEN the problem first appeared? (this might help us pin it down a little) 

 

Any motorcycle work or maintenance done just before the problem started?

 

Has this problem been present with more than one fill-up in the fuel tank?

 

You really should get a GS-911, or possibly a MotoScan on that motorcycle to hopefully eliminate some of the guessing. But we can sort of work around that for a while & might find a smoking gun. 

 

So answer the questions above__

 

Then next cold start below 43°f  try holding the throttle twist grip at about 1/8 open & see what happens to the cold start.

 

If that doesn't help then next cold start try turning the key ON (do not try starting yet ), turn the key on for a count of 5 then turn it back off. Do this 3 times THEN try cold starting it. 

 

If you have a voltmeter handy put that across the battery posts next 43°f morning then verify that your cold cranking battery voltage is above 10.5 volts during engine cranking. 

 

If all this poor cold starting has been happening on just the present tank of fuel in the tank then try running most of that out then re-filling with fresh fuel from another gasoline station (it's possible that you got a tank full of very high alcohol content gasoline). High alcohol content fuel starts very poorly in cold weather.  

 

 

 

 

[RTRay]

55 minutes ago, dirtrider said:

Morning RTRay

 

This is going to be somewhat difficult to tell you anything conclusive without some testing, measuring, & guessing.

 

So lets start with WHEN the problem first appeared? (this might help us pin it down a little) 

 

Any motorcycle work or maintenance done just before the problem started?

 

Has this problem been present with more than one fill-up in the fuel tank?

 

You really should get a GS-911, or possibly a MotoScan on that motorcycle to hopefully eliminate some of the guessing. But we can sort of work around that for a while & might find a smoking gun. 

 

So answer the questions above__

 

Then next cold start below 43°f  try holding the throttle twist grip at about 1/8 open & see what happens to the cold start.

 

If that doesn't help then next cold start try turning the key ON (do not try starting yet ), turn the key on for a count of 5 then turn it back off. Do this 3 times THEN try cold starting it. 

 

If you have a voltmeter handy put that across the battery posts next 43°f morning then verify that your cold cranking battery voltage is above 10.5 volts during engine cranking. 

 

If all this poor cold starting has been happening on just the present tank of fuel in the tank then try running most of that out then re-filling with fresh fuel from another gasoline station (it's possible that you got a tank full of very high alcohol content gasoline). High alcohol content fuel starts very poorly in cold weather.  

 

 

 

 

This problem first happened in Granby CO at 38F. It happened two mornings in a row below 40F. Both mornings the bike eventually did start when the temps warmed up to around 45F. 

 

No work had been done on the bike before the problem began. I received a recall notice on the fuel pump, but it wasn't available before my Colorado trip, so that incident happened with the original fuel pump. 

A new pump was installed after my return to Illinois last fall. The next time I had a problem was in both the Phoenix area and Kingman AZ when the temps fell below 40F. Once again the bike wouldn't start until it warmed up above 45F. I am following the cold start instructions in the manual: bike in neutral, throttle slightly open.  I've even done the throttle remap after putting in a new battery last spring. Didn't seem to make a difference. I normally run Shell Premium fuel only. 

 

I did find a video on YouTube of a 2014 doing the same thing my 2013 does. It just will crank and crank unti the battery goes dead, but it won't start until the temp warms up. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ySX84qagoA

 

Unfortunately, the bike is in Arizona and I'm in Illinois right now so I won't be able to check anything else out until I get back down there Nov 1st. When I get back down there I'm going to put in a new build good battery since I'm sure the stress of this last summer starting problems drained it past the point of no return. 

[dirtrider]

25 minutes ago, RTRay said:

This problem first happened in Granby CO at 38F. It happened two mornings in a row below 40F. Both mornings the bike eventually did start when the temps warmed up to around 45F. 

 

No work had been done on the bike before the problem began. I received a recall notice on the fuel pump, but it wasn't available before my Colorado trip, so that incident happened with the original fuel pump. 

A new pump was installed after my return to Illinois last fall. The next time I had a problem was in both the Phoenix area and Kingman AZ when the temps fell below 40F. Once again the bike wouldn't start until it warmed up above 45F. I am following the cold start instructions in the manual: bike in neutral, throttle slightly open.  I've even done the throttle remap after putting in a new battery last spring. Didn't seem to make a difference. I normally run Shell Premium fuel only. 

 

I did find a video on YouTube of a 2014 doing the same thing my 2013 does. It just will crank and crank unti the battery goes dead, but it won't start until the temp warms up. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ySX84qagoA

 

Unfortunately, the bike is in Arizona and I'm in Illinois right now so I won't be able to check anything else out until I get back down there Nov 1st. When I get back down there I'm going to put in a new build good battery since I'm sure the stress of this last summer starting problems drained it past the point of no return. 

Morning  RTRay

 

Without having the motorcycle handy  & having it in an area where the temps get below 40°f there probably isn't much we can do over the internet as without a scan tool (or dealer computer) we are really limited. 

[MichiganBob]

Good Day RTRay,

 

FYI, I went the Motoscan route for my diagnostic tool. The Obdater Elm 327 was $14 on Amazon, the Motor 10 Pin OBD Cable $10, the Motoscan license is $50. Here is an interesting Youtube comparing the Motoscan to theGS911. Good luck.

 

 

[MichiganBob]

It would be important to see if there are fault errors when it doesn't start compared to when it does.

 

I wonder how temperature affects starting. Electronics, ignition, fuel?

[dirtrider]

16 minutes ago, MichiganBob said:

It would be important to see if there are fault errors when it doesn't start compared to when it does.

 

I wonder how temperature affects starting. Electronics, ignition, fuel?

Morning Bob

 

I don't own a MotoScan myself but have worked with a number of riders that have used those things. The actual sensor data output seems to fit (or be close anyhow) but unless the person using the MotopScan data can use it on the spot in conjunction with troubleshooting changes made at that time then I have seen a number of issues in trying to remotly use MotoScan fault codes to match up to my  known BMW fault codes with good accuracy.  I have had a lot of issues in working with riders that just send me MotoScan fault codes as some just don't seem to match.

 

Plus to do any meaningful troubleshooting from data strings we need the full spectrum of sensor outputs & inputs in an Excel from to match the sensor inputs/outputs in a usable matchup at any one point time. (as of yet no-one with a MotoScan has been able to send me that trapped data in an Excel form that I can actually use. 

 

In most cases on the BMW hexhead/camhead era motorcycles the fault codes are pretty slim on most failures like no-starts or brake malfunctions  so the full spectrum trapped data stream is the best way to compare & pinpoint the possible trouble areas. 

 

The MotoScan is probably decent in the hands of a tec that can use the data in the moment but so far (to me anyhow) the MotoScan data has been pretty lacking to remotely diagnose odd-ball failures like no-starts or some ABS braking issues.   

[MichiganBob]

Good Afternoon DR,

 

What you said makes good sense. You get what you pay for.  My needs are simple. Reset service light and overall scan of systems to see if anything comes up.  I would think that the more bikes you service, the older the bikes, and the type of services you're doing are important considerations in one's choice.

[lather]

Good afternoon everyone. I logged in to posrt about something different but saw this thread and thought i'd add my 2 cents worth. I had some hard starting issues with my 2013 RT during a trip to California from Louisiana in April. I never had any EWS or other warnings from the display and it would always start with 3 or 4 tries. Coincidentally one of the overnight stops and hard starting locations was Kingman, AZ.  I don't recall the tempertures ever being below 45f but I could be wrong. My impression was the hard starting issue was related to altitude. It seemed to occur only above 3000 ft. 

[RTRay]

5 hours ago, lather said:

Good afternoon everyone. I logged in to posrt about something different but saw this thread and thought i'd add my 2 cents worth. I had some hard starting issues with my 2013 RT during a trip to California from Louisiana in April. I never had any EWS or other warnings from the display and it would always start with 3 or 4 tries. Coincidentally one of the overnight stops and hard starting locations was Kingman, AZ.  I don't recall the tempertures ever being below 45f but I could be wrong. My impression was the hard starting issue was related to altitude. It seemed to occur only above 3000 ft. 

That’s interesting. The above sea level altitudes I’ve had starting troubles at were: 7,990’, 3,900’, 6,667’, 3,333’, and 1,400’. The 3,333 was Kingman, AZ. I only had trouble at those higher altitudes when the temps fell lower than 43-45F. Most were in the mid to high 30F’s. When the temps were higher than that the bike started right away. At 1,400 it was 36F and it did eventually start after many tries. 

[RTRay]

Replaced my generic battery with an Odyssey PC680 along with a CTEK AGM charger. Since then my bike has started every time I’ve tried, all the way down to 38F. The engine turns over very fast and it catches within a couple seconds. It has started several mornings in a row below 40F. I do have to follow the manual instructions on cold starts. Bike in N throttle about 1/4 open and it starts up fine so far. 

Hopefully this takes care of the problem.

[George S.]

I know I’m late to this, and I hope your issue is solved, but I had the same problem with my 2011 RT (or was it a 2012?) No start, EWS error message and all, but it only happened when it was hot out, and parked in the sun. Dealer right away changed the kill/start switch and that solved it.  (they said they’d seen this with other RTs and was due to the thin foil BMW was using as the wiring inside the handlebar switch housings ) Maybe this area is sensitive to extreme temperatures either way?  So if it should happen again, if you’re in the garage try a hair dryer to warm up the switch, or drop a hand warmer packet on the switch if you’re on the road to see if it solves it temporarily.

[dirtrider]

35 minutes ago, George S. said:

I know I’m late to this, and I hope your issue is solved, but I had the same problem with my 2011 RT (or was it a 2012?) No start, EWS error message and all, but it only happened when it was hot out, and parked in the sun. Dealer right away changed the kill/start switch and that solved it.  (they said they’d seen this with other RTs and was due to the thin foil BMW was using as the wiring inside the handlebar switch housings ) Maybe this area is sensitive to extreme temperatures either way?  So if it should happen again, if you’re in the garage try a hair dryer to warm up the switch, or drop a hand warmer packet on the switch if you’re on the road to see if it solves it temporarily.

Evening  George S.

 

Those handlebar switches were/are a big problem but you need to pour very cold water on the switch, not heat it, as heating usually makes them worse.

 

But the handlebar switch issue usually causes a no-engine-crank with obviously a no-start not the crank-OK but no-start being talked about above. 

[6speedTi]

7 hours ago, RTRay said:

Replaced my generic battery with an Odyssey PC680 along with a CTEK AGM charger. Since then my bike has started every time I’ve tried, all the way down to 38F. The engine turns over very fast and it catches within a couple seconds. It has started several mornings in a row below 40F. I do have to follow the manual instructions on cold starts. Bike in N throttle about 1/4 open and it starts up fine so far. 

Hopefully this takes care of the problem.

I have the same battery and charger. Works great for me.

Just don't refresh the Odyssey battery using the CTEK charger. The Odyssey battery does not like 15 volts. You will burn it up.

 

[George S.]

3 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Evening  George S.

 

Those handlebar switches were/are a big problem but you need to pour very cold water on the switch, not heat it, as heating usually makes them worse.

 

But the handlebar switch issue usually causes a no-engine-crank with obviously a no-start not the crank-OK but no-start being talked about above. 

Hi DR. Yes, of course you’re right on both points.  it did cause a complete no start, no crank. I was just thinking if heat caused an expansion of the conductive foil tape that was used for the electrical connection, just maybe a very cold situation could cause shrinkage and also lose a connection? I know it was a longshot theory and I have zero proof, just a thought. The dealer told me if it happened again, to put a bag of ice over the switch, or keep a can of compressed air with me and blow it over the switch. Just what everyone who just spent $20K on a new bike wants to hear!
(But mine was free from the BMW Superstakes) Well, free after I paid $4K or so in taxes. But I’m not complaining.

[RTRay]

5 hours ago, George S. said:

I know I’m late to this, and I hope your issue is solved, but I had the same problem with my 2011 RT (or was it a 2012?) No start, EWS error message and all, but it only happened when it was hot out, and parked in the sun. Dealer right away changed the kill/start switch and that solved it.  (they said they’d seen this with other RTs and was due to the thin foil BMW was using as the wiring inside the handlebar switch housings ) Maybe this area is sensitive to extreme temperatures either way?  So if it should happen again, if you’re in the garage try a hair dryer to warm up the switch, or drop a hand warmer packet on the switch if you’re on the road to see if it solves it temporarily.

Thanks for the info. Very interesting. I’ll try that if I have more problems. 

[RTRay]

3 hours ago, 6speedTi said:

I have the same battery and charger. Works great for me.

Just don't refresh the Odyssey battery using the CTEK charger. The Odyssey battery does not like 15 volts. You will burn it up.

 

Do you leave it on the CTEK charger/maintainer in you’re not riding for several weeks?

[6speedTi]

On 11/15/2022 at 9:54 PM, RTRay said:

Do you leave it on the CTEK charger/maintainer in you’re not riding for several weeks?

I only plug it in if the bike sits for more than two weeks. I live in south Florida. I ride just about all year round. Parasitic draw will discharge my battery to below 12 volts in two to three weeks.  

[RTRay]

On 11/17/2022 at 6:22 AM, 6speedTi said:

I only plug it in if the bike sits for more than two weeks. I live in south Florida. I ride just about all year round. Parasitic draw will discharge my battery to below 12 volts in two to three weeks.  

I had to leave my bike for the next 5 weeks. It’s on the CTEK while I’m gone.