2002 R1150R turn signals not working

[harveyrawn]

My left front and left rear turn signals just stopped working. The bulbs are OK, as they light when the flashers are activated. The right signals operate normally. The left ones do not light when their switch is pressed.

I understand that it might be a relay problem. If so, is there any fix available other than buying a pricey replacement?

[Miguel!]

It could also be the left switch. Are you using the stock relay or signal minder retrofit? Miguel

[dirtrider]

11 hours ago, harveyrawn said:

My left front and left rear turn signals just stopped working. The bulbs are OK, as they light when the flashers are activated. The right signals operate normally. The left ones do not light when their switch is pressed.

I understand that it might be a relay problem. If so, is there any fix available other than buying a pricey replacement?

Morning   harveyrawn

 

It could be the T/S relay but that is limited as the T/S relay output side is obviously working.

 

As  Miguel! mentioned it could be the L/H switch.

 

It could also easily be a broken wire between the L/H switch & the T/S relay--- Does your horn work? If so that typically tells you the L/H side brown T/S switch low (ground) wire is intact & has continuity. If horn doesn't work then look for a broken brown wire going to the L/H side handlebar switch assembly.

 

So that leaves the blue/brown wire between the L/H T/S switch  & the T/S relay that needs to be verified. (you might want to check with an ohmmeter to see if the L/H switch, when pushed,  can pull the #3 terminal in the T/S relay socket to low (ground). This will verify the blue/brown & the brown (ground) wire going to the L/H T/S switch as well as verify the switch itself is working.  

 

You can also "try"  turning the key to on,  then  turning the handlebars back & forth while you keep pushing the L/H T/S  switch. If that momentarily gets the T/S working then the blue/brown wire probably has a break in it someplace where turning the handlebars is flexing it.  

 

L/H = Left Hand

T/S = Turn Signal

[harveyrawn]

16 hours ago, Miguel! said:

It could also be the left switch. Are you using the stock relay or signal minder retrofit? Miguel

Thanks Miguel.

I have the SignalMInder installed that was working fully until the current problem arrived. What is your suggestion in that regard.

I found its original packaging that I had saved and it contains what looks like the original BMW relay that was working fine when I replaced it. I suppose I can merely reinstall it to see if the turn signal starts working.

[harveyrawn]

9 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Morning   harveyrawn

 

It could be the T/S relay but that is limited as the T/S relay output side is obviously working.

 

As  Miguel! mentioned it could be the L/H switch.

 

It could also easily be a broken wire between the L/H switch & the T/S relay--- Does your horn work? If so that typically tells you the L/H side brown T/S switch low (ground) wire is intact & has continuity. If horn doesn't work then look for a broken brown wire going to the L/H side handlebar switch assembly.

 

So that leaves the blue/brown wire between the L/H T/S switch  & the T/S relay that needs to be verified. (you might want to check with an ohmmeter to see if the L/H switch, when pushed,  can pull the #3 terminal in the T/S relay socket to low (ground). This will verify the blue/brown & the brown (ground) wire going to the L/H T/S switch as well as verify the switch itself is working.  

 

You can also "try"  turning the key to on,  then  turning the handlebars back & forth while you keep pushing the L/H T/S  switch. If that momentarily gets the T/S working then the blue/brown wire probably has a break in it someplace where turning the handlebars is flexing it.  

 

L/H = Left Hand

T/S = Turn Signal

Thanks Dirt Rider

As noted above, I am using a SignalMinder rather than the original relay.

In case I need to follow your troubleshooting tips, what steps do I perform to use the ohmmeter test?

[dirtrider]

50 minutes ago, harveyrawn said:

Thanks Dirt Rider

As noted above, I am using a SignalMinder rather than the original relay.

In case I need to follow your troubleshooting tips, what steps do I perform to use the ohmmeter test?

Evening   harveyrawn

 

Yes, start by trying the original T/S relay.

 

If still not working then remove the T/S relay & see if you can locate the # 3 cavity in the  T/S socket. (hopefully it is marked), if not then post back here as we will need to find another way to identify the #3 cavity. (it will be difficulty to see & read the numbers)

 

Next, put your ohmmeter on the 200 ohm scale then touch the leads together  (meter should show near 0 ohms) if working OK.

 

Then ground one lead of your ohmmeter to a clean chassis ground & touch the other lead to the little metal terminal in the #3 T/S relay socket cavity. 

 

Then with leads connected as above just push the L/H turn signal button, you should see the meter drop to a low ohm reading  (probably won't make it to 0 but should be quite low anyhow (meter should respond to L/H turn signal button push.

[Miguel!]

50 minutes ago, harveyrawn said:

Thanks Miguel.

I have the SignalMInder installed that was working fully until the current problem arrived. What is your suggestion in that regard.

I found its original packaging that I had saved and it contains what looks like the original BMW relay that was working fine when I replaced it. I suppose I can merely reinstall it to see if the turn signal starts working.

I’d swap in original relay and see if it works. If it does then you know it’s a  signalminder fault and you need to buy a new one or stay with the original. I have a signal minder as well and cannot imagine going back to the original relay.

 

If the problem persists with the original relay installed then it is likely the wiring or the switch and you might consider tracking it down using the techniques that dirt rider described.

 

Hope that helps. Miguel

[Miguel!]

BTW, one more thought on the signalminder. In previous threads dirtrider has pointed out that the signalminder does have some leakage current when the bike is off (the older signalminders have more leakage current than newer versions). I've always thought this is because the signalminder has the ability to flash the turn signals when the key is off so it needs power even when the key is off. 

 

That being said, I'm reminded of all the other times simply repowering an electronic device has solved a problem. The only way to cycle the power to the signalminder is to unplug it or remove its fuse (you have to figure out which one that is on your bike). It's somewhat of a long shot but its a simple thing to try before you do anything else.

Let us know what happens. Miguel

[harveyrawn]

20 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Evening   harveyrawn

 

Yes, start by trying the original T/S relay.

 

If still not working then remove the T/S relay & see if you can locate the # 3 cavity in the  T/S socket. (hopefully it is marked), if not then post back here as we will need to find another way to identify the #3 cavity. (it will be difficulty to see & read the numbers)

 

Next, put your ohmmeter on the 200 ohm scale then touch the leads together  (meter should show near 0 ohms) if working OK.

 

Then ground one lead of your ohmmeter to a clean chassis ground & touch the other lead to the little metal terminal in the #3 T/S relay socket cavity. 

 

Then with leads connected as above just push the L/H turn signal button, you should see the meter drop to a low ohm reading  (probably won't make it to 0 but should be quite low anyhow (meter should respond to L/H turn signal button push.

 

Here's where things stand:

I unplugged and replugged the signalminder per Miguel's suggestion. While that reset the running lights adjustment it did not restore the left turnsignal operations.

I installed the original relay and the relevant operations are the same as with the signalminder: No front or rear turn signals, right signals OK, horn OK, all flashers OK.

I tried the ohmmeter test but the meter did not drop as Dirt Rider described. However, the connections were jury rigged as the ohmmeter probe was to large to fit into the socket holes so I tried clamping it to a little brad. I used the SignalMinder drawing shown below to locate the #3 socket, tried from each end of the two socket rows. Not sure it was a legit test.

I reinstalled the signalminder.

So, I seem to be left with the likelihood that the problem is either in the turnsignal switch or the blue wire leading from the switch. I didn't see anything obvious and do not relish chasing down the wire.

 

[dirtrider]

32 minutes ago, harveyrawn said:

 

Here's where things stand:

I unplugged and replugged the signalminder per Miguel's suggestion. While that reset the running lights adjustment it did not restore the left turnsignal operations.

I installed the original relay and the relevant operations are the same as with the signalminder: No front or rear turn signals, right signals OK, horn OK, all flashers OK.

I tried the ohmmeter test but the meter did not drop as Dirt Rider described. However, the connections were jury rigged as the ohmmeter probe was to large to fit into the socket holes so I tried clamping it to a little brad. I used the SignalMinder drawing shown below to locate the #3 socket, tried from each end of the two socket rows. Not sure it was a legit test.

I reinstalled the signalminder.

So, I seem to be left with the likelihood that the problem is either in the turnsignal switch or the blue wire leading from the switch. I didn't see anything obvious and do not relish chasing down the wire.

 

 

Afternoon  harveyrawn

 

If the horn works & the original T/S relay didn't help then you more than likely have a broken blue/brown wire or a bad switch.

 

Broken wire is probably more likely than a bad switch but that is just based on my past troubleshooting history & probability not based on any reliable data from your bike. 

 

About all you can do now is verify the switch operation at the first L/H switch  connector and ohm out the blue/brown wire between switch & T/S relay socket then make a plan based on what you find there. 

 

If a broken wire then usual place it breaks is between the handlebar switch & motorcycle chassis ( usually right where the wire harness flexes the most with bar movement)

 

 

[harveyrawn]

Not being knowledgeable about electrical matters, can you explain how to "verify the switch operation at the first L/H switch  connector and ohm out the blue/brown wire between switch & T/S relay socket"?

[dirtrider]

1 hour ago, harveyrawn said:

Not being knowledgeable about electrical matters, can you explain how to "verify the switch operation at the first L/H switch  connector and ohm out the blue/brown wire between switch & T/S relay socket"?

Evening harveyrawn

 

Start by following the L/H handlebar switch wire pig tail until you find the connector shown in picture below (red circle).

 

Then unplug the connector,  again set your ohmmeter to the 20 ohm scale & put leads together to test meter).

 

Then find the brown wire in the removed connector & find the  blue/brown wire in that connector, then put an ohmmeter probe on each wire terminal & push the L/H T/S button. (does the ohmmeter show a resistance change towards 0 when you push the button?)  If so the switch & wire pigtail are OK & your problem is between the motorcycle side of the connector & the turn signal relay. 

 

If the ohmmeter doesn't move when you push the button then see if you can get an ohmmeter probe on the blue/brown wire at the connector & on the blue/brown wire at the switch (should show close to 0 ohms). If open (no resistance change) then the blue/brown wire is probably broken in the switch pigtail harness. If you do show a resistance change towards 0 then see if you can get your ohmmeter probes right on the blue/brown wire & on the brown wire right at the switch, then push the switch button (see if you get a resistance change towards 0).

 

You can also find the blue/brown wire on the motorcycle side of that pigtail connector so put one ohmmeter probe on that, then put the other meter probe on the terminal in the #3 T/S relay socket (should show close to 0 resistance if the wire is OK between that connector & the T/S relay socket. If no resistance change then that wire is open someplace in it's run.

 

OR, if you want to cheat -- Just remove the switch far enough to access the wires going into the T/S switch.  Then put one meter lead probe on the blue/brown  wire right at the switch & put the other meter lead probe on the terminal #3 in the T/S relay socket. If the meter shows close to 0 ohms then the wiring is OK so you probably have a bad switch. (or at least it strongly points to a failed switch)   

 

 

 

 

[harveyrawn]

That connector must be under the tank. On my bike the pig tail disappears into a harness that heads there.

Is it possible that there is some condensation or other problem in the switch that I can access and cure?

Great instructions. Thanks.

[dirtrider]

2 minutes ago, harveyrawn said:

That connector must be under the tank. On my bike the pig tail disappears into a harness that heads there.

Is it possible that there is some condensation or other problem in the switch that I can access and cure?

Great instructions. Thanks.

Evening  harveyrawn

 

Unfortunately not many other options except this one____   if you want to cheat -- Just remove the switch far enough to access the wires going into the T/S switch.  Then put one meter lead probe on the blue/brown  wire right at the switch & put the other meter lead probe on the terminal #3 in the T/S relay socket. If the meter shows close to 0 ohms then the wiring is OK so you probably have a bad switch. (or at least it strongly points to a failed switch) 

[R100R Rider]

I had the same problem on my 1150R.  it turned out to be dirty contacts in the switch.  A lot WD40 cleaned it up.

[Bobmws]

16 minutes ago, R100R Rider said:

I had the same problem on my 1150R.  it turned out to be dirty contacts in the switch.  A lot WD40 cleaned it up.

Contact/tuner cleaner would do a better job. While the WD40 probably dissolved the dirt/corrosion and 'lots' washed it out, it also leaves a residual which will start to hold dirt again.

 

[harveyrawn]

3 hours ago, R100R Rider said:

I had the same problem on my 1150R.  it turned out to be dirty contacts in the switch.  A lot WD40 cleaned it up.

Very interesting. I'll try that before digging into it further. Did you need to remove the switch to get the oil to the contacts?

[wbw6cos]

Try Deoxit D5 spray

 

[Lowndes]

2 hours ago, wbw6cos said:

Try Deoxit D5 spray

 

 

This stuff fixed my similar problem without completely disassembling the switch in the handlebar pod.  Amazon has a vert tiny (2 inch tall) spray can for an exorbidant price but this stuff is good and a TINY squirt is all it takes - no "flushing" required.  I went around and sprayed it into ALL handlebar switches as a preemptive.  

[Lowndes]

6 hours ago, harveyrawn said:

Very interesting. I'll try that before digging into it further. Did you need to remove the switch to get the oil to the contacts?

 

It helps to "split the halves" of the handle bar pod, but nothing more.  The DeOxit can then be shot directly on the afflicted switch parts.  Splitting the halves can be a little fiddly if you haven't done it before - the screws are "cleverly" hidden underneath.

[Miguel!]

I have taken the left grip apart in the past and posted about it here. You might find some of the pictures  useful. 
 

Miguel

[harveyrawn]

49 minutes ago, Miguel! said:

I have taken the left grip apart in the past and posted about it here. You might find some of the pictures  useful. 
 

Miguel

They are, thanks.

[harveyrawn]

On 1/17/2022 at 2:29 PM, dirtrider said:

Evening harveyrawn

 

Start by following the L/H handlebar switch wire pig tail until you find the connector shown in picture below (red circle).

 

Then unplug the connector,  again set your ohmmeter to the 20 ohm scale & put leads together to test meter).

 

Then find the brown wire in the removed connector & find the  blue/brown wire in that connector, then put an ohmmeter probe on each wire terminal & push the L/H T/S button. (does the ohmmeter show a resistance change towards 0 when you push the button?)  If so the switch & wire pigtail are OK & your problem is between the motorcycle side of the connector & the turn signal relay. 

 

If the ohmmeter doesn't move when you push the button then see if you can get an ohmmeter probe on the blue/brown wire at the connector & on the blue/brown wire at the switch (should show close to 0 ohms). If open (no resistance change) then the blue/brown wire is probably broken in the switch pigtail harness. If you do show a resistance change towards 0 then see if you can get your ohmmeter probes right on the blue/brown wire & on the brown wire right at the switch, then push the switch button (see if you get a resistance change towards 0).

 

You can also find the blue/brown wire on the motorcycle side of that pigtail connector so put one ohmmeter probe on that, then put the other meter probe on the terminal in the #3 T/S relay socket (should show close to 0 resistance if the wire is OK between that connector & the T/S relay socket. If no resistance change then that wire is open someplace in it's run.

 

OR, if you want to cheat -- Just remove the switch far enough to access the wires going into the T/S switch.  Then put one meter lead probe on the blue/brown  wire right at the switch & put the other meter lead probe on the terminal #3 in the T/S relay socket. If the meter shows close to 0 ohms then the wiring is OK so you probably have a bad switch. (or at least it strongly points to a failed switch)   

 

 

 

 

Hi again Dirt Rider

 

I was able to use the ohmmeter on the pigtail connector as its sockets are large enough to accept the probes. When it was connected to the blue and brown wire sockets and I pressed the T?S switch it took the ohmmeter reading from 1 all the way down to 0.00. So that seems to confirm that the problem is between the connector and the relay. That seems very unlikely to me because all of the wiring is still well protected and, being in the bowels of the bike, is not subject to stresses. I swapped the SignalMinder and the old relay again and they both still complete all operations normally except for the front and rear left turn signals. I'm not able to run any ohmmeter tests on the relay sockets because I can't make a good connection from the too-large probe tips.

 

I'm in a quandary. I really don't want to dig into the wiring harnesses in the interior of the bike. I guess it's possible that both the SignalMinder and the old relay are failing in the same manner. Maybe I can a replacement pig tail from the connector to the relay to test if that solves the problem without actually installing it, on the basis that I can return it if not needed.

 

Do you have any other suggestions?

[dirtrider]

12 hours ago, harveyrawn said:

Hi again Dirt Rider

 

I was able to use the ohmmeter on the pigtail connector as its sockets are large enough to accept the probes. When it was connected to the blue and brown wire sockets and I pressed the T?S switch it took the ohmmeter reading from 1 all the way down to 0.00. So that seems to confirm that the problem is between the connector and the relay. That seems very unlikely to me because all of the wiring is still well protected and, being in the bowels of the bike, is not subject to stresses. I swapped the SignalMinder and the old relay again and they both still complete all operations normally except for the front and rear left turn signals. I'm not able to run any ohmmeter tests on the relay sockets because I can't make a good connection from the too-large probe tips.

 

I'm in a quandary. I really don't want to dig into the wiring harnesses in the interior of the bike. I guess it's possible that both the SignalMinder and the old relay are failing in the same manner. Maybe I can a replacement pig tail from the connector to the relay to test if that solves the problem without actually installing it, on the basis that I can return it if not needed.

 

Do you have any other suggestions?

Morning harveyrawn

 

Well you can guess at it but that doesn't confirm anything (you really don't want to tear the wiring apart if it tests out OK),   or you can TEST the wiring to either find the problem, and/or eliminate what isn't the problem. 

 

You should be able to use something to make a suitable terminal that will fit in your turn signal relay socket. Maybe a very small brad nail that you hammer flat then file to correct width, or a strip of copper cut narrow with an old scissors, or a piece of  copper 14/2  wire that you hammer thin then file narrow, or even a piece of braided very small diameter wire that you solder the end wire strands then hammer flat. Or an old computer wire pig tail or connector terminal that you hammer or file to fit. 

 

Even a small sewing needle or small pin can be made to work if you don't force it in too far so it forces the socket terminal open & distorts it. 

 

Or an old "ink pen" brass filler that you hammer to be flat then file to fit.

 

Or, maybe just cut a thin slice from one of your wife's old pie tins. 

 

Or take your removed T/S relay to an auto parts store or computer repair store then see if they can match up a small terminal that will match what is on your relay.

 

I have a large collection of terminals from all makes of vehicles so usually have something handy that will work.  If I don't then a favorite of mine is a "weather pack" (round male) terminal. I just use side cutters to cut one side blade from the round terminal then hammer the remaining terminal flat (that usually fits in about anything as it is tapered & thin). If not then a few file strokes will make it fit. Most auto parts stores should have a round weather pack terminal of some sort (just be sure it is split like in picture)

 

Show the counter clerk this picture on your phone as they should recognize it. 

 

 

 

 

 

[harveyrawn]

Thanks to everyone here who weighed in on my problem with good advice. If you followed the comments, you know that I determined that the switch and its pig tail wiring to the connector under the tank are sound. I also confirmed that the relay operates normally. That seems to leave the unlikely location of the problem in the mail wiring harness and I am not inclined to dig into it.

 

So, the mystery remains. I reassembled the bike and will live without a left turn signal.

 

I appreciate the support I found here.

[Hosstage]

Not sure which country you are riding in, but if it is on the left side of the road (UK, Australia, etc.) it may not be a big deal, but if you are riding on the right hand side of the road, the left turn signal would be the one I want to work. Many riders add extra lights for visibility, rather than eliminate them.

Unless you're riding Harleys, then, lights are hit and miss.

[harveyrawn]

Yes, we have many riders in the U.S. adding lights, some very bright. I've been riding for about 46 years and am comfortable with the OEM lights on bikes. I will miss the left turn signal, however. The SignalMinder allows it to stay on as a running light so I'll probably activate it.

 

[Hosstage]

Delete

[Skywagon]

Harveyrawn....Not sure where you are located...States or not.  Most states require an annual inspection which would require your turn signals to work.  In my state if you can't pass the inspection you can't register for plates or get insurance.  I don't envy trying to figure it out...hope it works out for you.

[Hosstage]

Just an FYI, Minnesota does not require turn signals on motorcycles, just brake, tail, and headlight. Arm signals are legal.

[Hosstage]

For my education, is the signal minder an aftermarket unit?

[Miguel!]

2 hours ago, harveyrawn said:

Yes, we have many riders in the U.S. adding lights, some very bright. I've been riding for about 46 years and am comfortable with the OEM lights on bikes. I will miss the left turn signal, however. The SignalMinder allows it to stay on as a running light so I'll probably activate it.

 

Why not just run your own wire. It's likely pretty straight forward and shouldn't take long. Miguel!

 

[harveyrawn]

1 hour ago, Hosstage said:

For my education, is the signal minder an aftermarket unit?

Yes, it replaces the OEM relay with more features like varying the intensity of running likes and controlling the length of time turn signals flash. It's a nice unit.

[harveyrawn]

56 minutes ago, Miguel! said:

Why not just run your own wire. It's likely pretty straight forward and shouldn't take long. Miguel!

 

Run it two where?

[harveyrawn]

2 hours ago, Skywagon said:

Harveyrawn....Not sure where you are located...States or not.  Most states require an annual inspection which would require your turn signals to work.  In my state if you can't pass the inspection you can't register for plates or get insurance.  I don't envy trying to figure it out...hope it works out for you.

I'm in California...no inspections here.

[harveyrawn]

2 hours ago, Hosstage said:

Just an FYI, Minnesota does not require turn signals on motorcycles, just brake, tail, and headlight. Arm signals are legal.

I remember those.

[dirtrider]

5 hours ago, harveyrawn said:

I remember those.

Morning harveyrawn

 

Problem is, most modern (re young)  drivers have no idea what arm signals mean. They only understand the middle finger salute. 

 

You can run a new wire but you REALLY should ohm out the suspected chassis wire before jumping in blindly & running new wires.

 

If what you have tested so far is accurate (tried another T/S relay), & tested for (the horn working), & tested the (switch for working at the first pigtail connector), & the (front signal light is actually working from the hazard switch). Then most likely the  blue/brown wire between the front switch pigtail connector & the T/S relay socket has the problem.

 

Running a new wire will be a pain as accessing the blue wire under the bottom of the fuse box T/S socket is a real pain in the a$$, then you would still l have to ohm out the  blue/brown wire connection to the actual T/S relay  socket terminal as the problem could be in the original wire's "connection" to the socket terminal. 

 

Not rocket science but a pain none the less.  But again, before doing anything you "REALLY should ohm out the suspected blue/brown chassis wire" just to be sure you are chasing the correct problem area. 

 

 

 

 

[harveyrawn]

3 hours ago, dirtrider said:

Morning harveyrawn

 

Problem is, most modern (re young)  drivers have no idea what arm signals mean. They only understand the middle finger salute. 

 

You can run a new wire but you REALLY should ohm out the suspected chassis wire before jumping in blindly & running new wires.

 

If what you have tested so far is accurate (tried another T/S relay), & tested for (the horn working), & tested the (switch for working at the first pigtail connector), & the (front signal light is actually working from the hazard switch). Then most likely the  blue/brown wire between the front switch pigtail connector & the T/S relay socket has the problem.

 

Running a new wire will be a pain as accessing the blue wire under the bottom of the fuse box T/S socket is a real pain in the a$$, then you would still l have to ohm out the  blue/brown wire connection to the actual T/S relay  socket terminal as the problem could be in the original wire's "connection" to the socket terminal. 

 

Not rocket science but a pain none the less.  But again, before doing anything you "REALLY should ohm out the suspected blue/brown chassis wire" just to be sure you are chasing the correct problem area. 

 

 

 

 

I'll have to be extra vigilant around the young drivers.

 

Good troubleshooting advice, but thought of accessing the blue wire's connection at the socket terminal is above my pay grade.

[Hosstage]

Sounds like problem solved!