All Things E

[ESokoloff]

I’m starting this thread to discuss the up & coming change in energy consuming devices.

Like or believe in it not, the world as we’ve known it has & will continue to change. 
 

I’ll start this off by addressing a reply from Richard in another thread in which he responded 

Quote

22 hours ago, Rougarou said:

I'll push for the charging station

My 2016 Zero DSR doesn’t need a charging station.

All I need is a 120v 1ph 15a outlet (Level 1 charging). 
Note that the onboard charger will also work at 240 1ph but will charge at the same rate as 120v. 
I find that the charge time takes about 60min/10% SOC (State of Charge) which is quite slow but Ok for this specific mission (Commuting). 
Quick(er) chargers are available for those inclined but they add weight & expense that I don’t need for commuting. 

[ESokoloff]

 Also Richard asked 
 

Quote

Then,......why is there a "dual sport" model?    Are people commuting cross country?

It’s quite possible to go cross county on a BEV (Battery Electric Vehical).

Im not saying it’s easy but rather quite possible.

https://advrider.com/f/threads/two-bikes-one-jug-zero-dsr-2eride-the-2021-tat-with-an-electric-moto-coast-to-coast.1514716/

[Rougarou]

Let me rephrase, I'll push for outlets in the parking lot when there's a fuel farm in the parking lot.  There may be progressive companies that fund that sort of thing, but mine ain't one.  During one of the bizops meetings, it was asked if facilities would fund solar panels at one of the Arizona locations, the reply was "nope".  It has also been asked about placing charging stations at various locations, including liberal area Santa Clara, "nope", ain't happening.

 

There's no doubt changes are coming, just as when the horse/buggy transitioned to the motorcar.......likely that these same scenarios' popped up.

 

Horse/buggy guy:  I can feed/water my horse anywhere and keep going

Motorcar guy:  I gotta find a fuel farm to fill up to keep going

 

Internal combustion guy:  I can fill up damn near anywhere and keep going

Electric vehicle guy:  I gotta find a charging station, wait several hours/minutes, then keep going

 

The technology will eventually catch up, prices will come down.

 

A concern I have is that I'm still riding a 2006MY bike and driving a 1989MY pickup.   At what costs will it be for me to replace the batteries in each for "long holders" of vehicles?  Will 'lectric's be able to hit 200, 300, 400k miles?  With internal combustions, your costs, if taken care of, are spread out.   With the 'lectrics, I'ma have to drop a large sum of money at one time to replace the skateboard batteries,.......or take a loan.........not my cup of tea if my vehicle is already paid off.

[taylor1]

Everything is in constant change. As mentioned, the technology isn't even close yet. I would bet the farm that in everyone's life time on this board , fossil fuels will not be totally replaced with alternatives. I am sure in the future they will , but we are quite a way's off.

[Rougarou]

Infrastructure would be the same issue as charging stations, but hydrogen should be more heavily invested over straight 'lectrics.  At least with hydro/lectrics, you can "pump fill" the vehicle in about the same amount of time it takes to fill a gasser.  The batteries that hold the power are smaller, and I'ma guess, easier/cheaper to replace.

 

I don't know enough to elaborate on this, but, the limited reading I've done, leads me to think that the hydro/electrics would be the way to go..........then there's the refining/sucking the hydrogen out issue,.......

[9Mary7]

6 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

The batteries that hold the power are smaller, and I'ma guess, easier/cheaper to replace.

Hydrogen....... another plus, the accident investigations will be non-existent....... no evidence = no investigation 

[John Ranalletta]

47 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

Infrastructure would be the same issue as charging stations, but hydrogen should be more heavily invested over straight 'lectrics.  At least with hydro/lectrics, you can "pump fill" the vehicle in about the same amount of time it takes to fill a gasser.  The batteries that hold the power are smaller, and I'ma guess, easier/cheaper to replace.

 

I don't know enough to elaborate on this, but, the limited reading I've done, leads me to think that the hydro/electrics would be the way to go..........then there's the refining/sucking the hydrogen out issue,.......

 

Excellent thought piece on the prospect of how the widespread adoption of fusion (cheap) energy might drive out EVs in favor or hydrogen.

 

https://doomberg.substack.com/p/what-if-electricity-were-free

[Bud]

3 hours ago, taylor1 said:

Everything is in constant change. As mentioned, the technology isn't even close yet. I would bet the farm that in everyone's life time on this board , fossil fuels will not be totally replaced with alternatives. I am sure in the future they will , but we are quite a way's off.

 

I will take that bet!  Do you need my address so you can send the deed?   

[taylor1]

Hey Bud , Maybe I shouldn't have made that bet. If some of the younger guys live to be 150 like I'm gonna do , it just might give them enough time.

[Bud]

Maybe???? 

[Skywagon]

[roadscholar]

This is old news but somewhat refreshing to us motorheads not quite ready to give up our classics just yet.

 

https://www.dw.com/en/porsche-to-produce-fuel-as-clean-as-electric-vehicles/a-56787413 

[wbw6cos]

I am liking https://www.lucidmotors.com/ more and more these days.   It has come a long way since Clinton Woods ,  although the price is comparable.  

[ESokoloff]

This evening I had my 3rd Rivian R1T in the flesh sighting. 
To be honest it could have been the same vehicle as I believe the first/latest production run was only 250 or so & those went to employees. 

 

[ESokoloff]

1,000 mile off-road trip on a pair of Zero DSR’s. 
 

 

[Hosstage]

Just saw an ad for e powered snow blowers, which brought a question to mind. Well, several.

Can I charge them when cold?

I have a lot of battery powered tools: leaf blowers, drills, even security cameras. I cannot charge them when the batteries are too cold (or too hot). I must being them inside and let them warm before they will take a charge. Do I have to bring my snowblower battery inside, wait for it to warm to charge? Does the cold suck the life out of the battery much quicker than at room temps?

Does a battery powered snow blower seem like a half baked idea?

To be answered by those that have frozen their A's off blowing big snow.

That transitions to cars and charging, do they also have trouble charging in temps below 0° F?

[Rougarou]

7 hours ago, ESokoloff said:

This evening I had my 3rd Rivian R1T in the flesh sighting. 
To be honest it could have been the same vehicle as I believe the first/latest production run was only 250 or so & those went to employees. 

 

 

Saw that a couple of weeks ago,.....but when a stock F250 and a stock Kia Sorrento can crawl up that, it seems to loose its impressiveness as a vehicle.............much of trail riding/rock crawling is the driver/spotter team and not the vehicle.

[Sonor]

I have no doubt that electric will be the future of most industries whether it is transportation or the production of food, packaging, etc. That said, there are some hurdles that must be crossed before we get there. I know at this point in my life, an electric vehicle cannot provide me with what I need as far as distance vs. time to destination. But fighting it is not in the cards so I am investing in companies that supply electricity, make the charging stations, and any other piece that may come to mind towards the future. I really think now is the time to invest much like it would have been to invest in say Mobile or Exxon years ago.

[Rougarou]

7 hours ago, ESokoloff said:

1,000 mile off-road trip on a pair of Zero DSR’s. 
 

 

 

That's pretty impressive,........but, like the early adopters of the motorcar (I'd imagine), they had to plan their routes to make sure they could "refuel" their bikes............mebbee, like the little portable battery jump starters, the future will have the ability to carry "spare fuel" to do a charge of xxx miles.

 

The Jeep, off-road, ya, I dunno about that.  Even on mine, I had 1/4-1/2" steel plate protecting the transmission/transfercase area for when I bounce heavily on the rocks.   And it did have slight dents in it.  The factory skid plates were really dented/beat up up when I pulled them and the one under the fuel tank was deformed to the size of a softball+, this from hitting the trails hard while stock.  With the inherent risks of true off roading, that's more stuff to break in the bush with no way of repair.  If I poke a hole in my fuel tank, I plug it with a bar of ivory soap,......what do you do if you poke a hole in those batteries.......ya, I'm skeptical.

[Rockosmith]

If you poke a hole in a Lithium based battery, it is my understanding that an extremely difficult to extinguish fire WILL result.  Difficult to extinguish because the chemical reaction makes its own oxygen.  The other nearby undamaged cells will light off if/when the temp gets hot enough.  As always, I may be wrong but an engineer for an electric vehicle manufacturer shared this info with me a couple of weeks ago.

[ESokoloff]

On 12/1/2021 at 6:28 AM, Rougarou said:

Infrastructure would be the same issue as charging stations, but hydrogen should be more heavily invested over straight 'lectrics.  At least with hydro/lectrics, you can "pump fill" the vehicle in about the same amount of time it takes to fill a gasser.  The batteries that hold the power are smaller, and I'ma guess, easier/cheaper to replace.

 

I don't know enough to elaborate on this, but, the limited reading I've done, leads me to think that the hydro/electrics would be the way to go..........then there's the refining/sucking the hydrogen out issue,.......

Nikola’s Hydrogen semi is progressing (this might even happen!!)

 

 

[ESokoloff]

8 hours ago, Hosstage said:

Just saw an ad for e powered snow blowers, which brought a question to mind. Well, several.

Can I charge them when cold?

I have a lot of battery powered tools: leaf blowers, drills, even security cameras. I cannot charge them when the batteries are too cold (or too hot). I must being them inside and let them warm before they will take a charge. Do I have to bring my snowblower battery inside, wait for it to warm to charge? Does the cold suck the life out of the battery much quicker than at room temps?

Does a battery powered snow blower seem like a half baked idea?

To be answered by those that have frozen their A's off blowing big snow.

That transitions to cars and charging, do they also have trouble charging in temps below 0° F?

From what little I know on the subject (live/operate in SoCal), I’m assuming this technology will work in cold applications when following manufacturers instructions.  
From what I’m seeing, all manufactures are using removable battery packs so that allows the user to charge/store batteries in proper conditions.  
Several years ago Areostich put a Zero FX through its paces during Winter.

    https://www.rideapart.com/news/247760/aerostich-testing-zero-fx-reliability-by-putting-it-through-icy-hell/

 

My (limited) understand of Li-On batteries in the cold is there’s a reduction in energy density & if too cold, the electrolyte could freeze.
Manufactures know their challenges & can design the products to take climate into consideration. 

[ESokoloff]

Interesting? Yes!

Affordable? Not so much.

 

[mickeym3]

Anyone else riding in one of the newer EV’s?  We picked up a AWD ID.4 six weeks ago and so far love it and while I still have many reservations about the infrastructure keeping up with demand and the inevitable misuse of federal funds to shore all that up I must say I have no qualms about recommending EV’s for the typical commuting trips. Our South Georgia utility rates are fairly low so I’m running about 1/3 the costs for charging the car at home for our around the area runs (with 2 active grandkids they definitely add up) vs. gas for the 30MPG Golf Sportwagon.  One of the things I like most is the blissful “idling” in traffic and waiting in the long lines at Chic-fil-A….know those taking orders there don’t enjoy the noise and fumes so I’m getting thumbs up from young kids and when you’re in your seventies that’s a plus. 
 

Any others adopters for some of the newer offerings? The Rivian, Lurig, etc sightings are much anticipated. And for the record, no on electric motorcycles although I admire the out of the box thinking, for an old car guy bikes are still very much a visceral thing. 

[Skywagon]

Not yet, but I got an invitation for a private showing of an EV  Chevy Truck they claim as revolutionary new battery that will do 400 miles at freeway speeds and can give a 100 mile recharge in 10 minutes. That starts to get pretty interesting to me. I’ll report back. A truck or Tahoe is a must for me with my toys. 
 

Sounds a little too good to be true. If 100 mile charge in 10 minutes then can I get 200 in 20, 300 in 30, and full charge in 40. Suspect that is unlikely. If it does work that well it would be in my future

[Rougarou]

1 hour ago, Skywagon said:

Not yet, but I got an invitation for a private showing of an EV  Chevy Truck they claim as revolutionary new battery that will do 400 miles at freeway speeds and can give a 100 mile recharge in 10 minutes. That starts to get pretty interesting to me. I’ll report back. A truck or Tahoe is a must for me with my toys. 
 

Sounds a little too good to be true. If 100 mile charge in 10 minutes then can I get 200 in 20, 300 in 30, and full charge in 40. Suspect that is unlikely. If it does work that well it would be in my future

 

When they get it down to 1k miles in 15-14 hours or under,....it'll be a consideration, until then, not an option.  On our trips from NC to LA, we don't stop until we have to fill up (generally every 4-500 miles).  At that point, you hit the head, grab a bite, fill up, and back on the road and that was traveling with my wife and two daughters (both girls since childhood).

[Hosstage]

I haven't, but my brother had use of a Mach E Mustang for a week. Loved it, fast, easy to drive, worked for commutes. And fast. Plus all wheel drive, and fast.

But, after a couple days, the fast just became ho hum because there is no drama, no engine noise, no change of anything, just more go. The lack of visceral connection with the e bikes was mentioned earlier, same problem he had with the Mustang.

Doesn't mean there isn't one in my future, car or bike, but still some development needed.

[Skywagon]

54 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

generally every 4-500 miles

I hear you. It’s 360 miles RT to my boat and 400 RT to beach house. That’s why it’s still marginal for me… but they are getting close. I can’t wait to see how much it cost compared to a regular one

[Rougarou]

Just now, Skywagon said:

I hear you. It’s 360 miles RT to my boat and 400 RT to beach house. That’s why it’s still marginal for me… but they are getting close. I can’t wait to see how much it cost compared to a regular one

 

Ya,.....but if you get caught in a 24hr snowstorm   I can bring you five gallons of fuel,......well, I guess I can bring you a generac too huh

[mickeym3]

No doubt range anxiety is an issue, just as it was during the the 1973 oil embargo. Know there are some who rely exclusively on EV’s but I can’t foresee that being the norm for many years to come. I’m hanging on to the bike and two ICE vehicles regardless because when I head out to get somewhere of any distance I go as far as my bladder and/or gas tank will take me and take the absolute minimum to address those and then off I go again. > 90% of my driving is well within the range of home so I’m enjoying this EV as just another exploration and so far I’m delighted. Think many new EV owners are disappointed with range in cold climates and others are put off by quirky new software but most seem as happy as I am. 

[Ken S]

7 hours ago, mickeym3 said:

many new EV owners are disappointed with range in cold climates and others are put off by quirky new software but most seem as happy as I am. 

I'm very happy with the Chevy Bolt I bought last March -- in Alaska.  In warm weather, the range is 260 miles.  In the cold it's about half that -- partially because you're using battery power to heat the passenger area.  (ICE cars waste a lot of energy producing heat when it's not needed.  That's what the cooling system is all about.) 

 

Temps here in Anchorage didn't get above 0ºF much since October.  Down close to -20ºF a couple times, and we drove the EV almost every day.

 

Yes, you have to keep LI batteries from getting too cold.  The EV has built-in systems to keep the batteries from getting cold.  As long as it's plugged-in, it uses charging current to do this. It is also wise to use charging current to warm up the interior of the car before driving.  YES, you are using electricity, but it's still way cheaper than buying gas. Especially since we have a solar system that provides "free" fuel about half the year.

 

We've put over 7K miles on it and have no complaints.  We purchased it new for almost half the MSRP, and YES GM will replace the batteries soon -- and the warranty will start over at that time.

 

And it's a lot of fun to outrun Mustangs (etc.) from a standing start at red lights -- in this unassuming vehicle.

[Hosstage]

A little ironic that when the most electricity is needed is when the solar system is the least effective.

How long before a vehicle is made mostly of solar panels, or at least the roof, trunk, and hood?

[Red]

let the bleu state subsidies begin.    Oregon doubles electric vehicle rebates for lower-income families - OPB

[ESokoloff]

On 1/12/2022 at 11:02 AM, Rougarou said:

 

Ya,.....but if you get caught in a 24hr snowstorm   I can bring you five gallons of fuel,......well, I guess I can bring you a generac too huh

Not the reality of this EV owner.

[Hosstage]

51 minutes ago, ESokoloff said:

Not the reality of this EV owner.

An interesting take that I agree with, is that most ev owners will leave their house with a full charge, as opposed to owners of ice vehicles who will often leave with less than full fuel tanks.

[MichiganBob]

Fifty to One Hundred years from now, there will be a Flux Capacitor or another fusion device replacing electric and fossil fuels. It's exciting to imagine the possibilities. 

[ESokoloff]

Some real world towing testing of the Rivian R1T up/down the Rocky’s.

 

 

 

More to come.......

[ESokoloff]

RT1 drag race

 

[Dennis Andress]

This is long, and rather entertaining. Just watch the first three minutes and see what a Tesla does to a 659 HP super charged V8.

 

[ESokoloff]

Got 100k burning a hole in your pocket?

 

 

 

[wbw6cos]

Guessing it will have flight restrictions similar to drones, or UAV's.   Pretty cool.  I want one.   Laura?  Are you reading this?  

[Dennis Andress]

6 hours ago, ESokoloff said:

Got 100k burning a hole in your pocket?

 

 

 

 

I'm stuck at the thought of one of those blades hitting something and coming apart...

[ESokoloff]

Per the vid, built in terrain avoidance system. 

[Dennis Andress]

5 hours ago, ESokoloff said:

Per the vid, built in terrain avoidance system. 

Only one system? Does redundancy cost too much?

[ESokoloff]

9 hours ago, Dennis Andress said:

Only one system? Does redundancy cost too much?

According to info found HERE
 

“Despite its small size, the personal aircraft features advanced avionics and safety systems, including a triple-redundant flight computer, terrain tracking, and obstacle avoidance. The pilot should feel safe enough inside the race car-inspired frame, and there are also several emergency functions integrated, as well as a rapid-deployment parachute.”

 

Not sure if actually specs. 

 

 

 

[Skywagon]

It will be interesting how it gets designated. Ultralights can’t weigh more than 259 lbs. 

Their tech spec says it weighs 190lbs. 
 

Ultralight are speed restricted. That’s why only 63 mph 

 

It also has to have a power off stall speed no greater than 24 kts. Not sure that thing will glide at all without power unless they can auto rotate all the props which I seriously doubt 

 

still looks like a blast

 

 

 

[wbw6cos]

That actual vehicle weighs 190 lbs.   Does that regulation include the operator?

[Rougarou]

I'm out,.....until they get it to be able to fly 35 miles, one way straight line, I'm out.  Twenty minutes won't do it for me as a commute vehicle.  And then there's the charging issue at work.

[Skywagon]

34 minutes ago, wbw6cos said:

Does that regulation include the operator?

No. But the vehicle has a person weight max of 210 lbs. I’m not very E smart especially on battery tech. Seems like if they are going to get more range they will need bigger heavier batteries.      They don’t have a lot of weight left to play with. With a full charge range of 20 minute max flight is 10 min out and 10 min back. I wouldn’t buy one yet but I sure would like to fly one

[TEWKS]

So David, you’re saying I couldn’t fly it to my favorite BBQ joint then?